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Author: Philip ( buy what you understand)   |   Latest post: Sun, 5 Dec 2021, 7:44 AM

 

Traders versus Investors and how to buy palm oil @innoprise plantations 14.5% dividend

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Philip here.

 

One of the interesting discussions recently on my group was qqq repeating that my performance in 2021 doesn't match my returns in 2020 and 2019. His so called trading gains had far outpaced my investing returns.

 

At first glance it may be true. However if you think further about it, you will quickly realize that traders and those trading gurus fail to show their trackable portfolio, preferring to show just the percentage gain on certain top stocks. Why is this so?

 

Compounding. Ask any child what is 137 X 14.5 and they would probably be able to calculate it quickly. Ask the same child to do 137^14.5, and they will find it hard to do the math. Why is this so? Our brain seems to find it hard to do exponentials. Remember the king who rewarded a young man with any request, and he requested to put 1 grain of wheat for every square on a chess board, doubling the amount each time. In the end the king lost his entire wheat supply to the boy.

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that we find it very hard to grasp the idea of compounding. Same with trading versus investing. Trading seems to make better money faster, while investing is much much slower and more borrowing. However why is it that the richest people are those who just buy and hold onto a few great stocks and make their millions? The answer is simple: cost of shares.

 

You see in trading you only look at capital gain. Buy high, sell higher. Total return only. Very simple and clear cut to look at. But in investing it becomes more complicated. You have to add in share splits, free warrants, dividends, bonus shares and spin-offs etc as you hold over a long period of time. This gets very very complicated over time. So how do you simplify this to something traders can understand?

 

Cost of shares. Luckily i3 portfolio has a very simple and good tool for tracking your portfolio, I highly suggest you use it, they have very useful breakdowns and performance markets that can accurately show you how much you actually make over time in a stock.

 

COST OF SHARES.

 

If you take a look at my open portfolio and go to transaction group under pchem which is my biggest position at about 40% of my portfolio, you will notice that as time passed by, my holding cost is steadily going lower thanks to share price increase as well as constant dividends which I am receiving.

RM4.428 is my holding cost, as I average down over time, and receive constant dividends to wait...

 

This is a very important fact as many people ask my why I do not sell my QL and yinson etc. My cost basis for ql is less than 500k, and yinson was less than 2m over time. Why sell? It is practically free, the companies is growing in revenue and building more factories warehouses and sold, and I am paid a very good dividend to wait. All we have to do is BUY AND HOLD.

 

Meanwhile, those that do trading have to keep looking at their cost structures of stamping fees, and bank fees, and personal tuition fees due to trading losses. All the while being worried that IRB will pop up one day and say your active trading counts as a business and is fully taxable as a business income at 24%. Try explaining that away to IRB when the time comes. For me it is simple, I make less that 20 transactions per year, and mostly are just buy which I sell after 1 year, which then qualifies as investment and not trading. More importantly, if I find a good stock ( in this case pchem and harta and ql and yinson, I can keep piling my dividends and my capital into the same stocks over time.

 

COMPOUNDING. No one ever losses by adding their position in Apple and Tesla over time ( although finding that great company is the hard part). You basically had 15 years to buy Apple, buy do you know why Warren did and not you? Apple didn't seem like a good trading vehicle.

 

So in the end, how does one trade? I realize I have been doing some itchy fingers in trading versus investing( it is boring to watch paint dry), in buying some short term stocks, but I always remember to keep it below 1% of my portfolio. Just to fill that itch and excitement of dopamine rush when you trade stocks. It is sad when buying 10 million in harta is boring for me and didn't even give me any dopamine rush, while buying 100k in innoprise plantations gives me a heart attack. Such is risk. I feel like James bond in an island with a missile coming down on my head. Will I die and lose everything?

 

Which brings me to my second part. Margin of safety.

 

This ties into why I bought innoprise plantations. This was brought up by aswen and jack before, as well as the dreaded Calvin tan. He has been going around promoting every palm oil stock, which is silly and dangerous as he is based in Singapore which doesn't have palm oil, and he has probably never been to a plantation before and doesn't realize that pain oil is even a commodity.

 

If you look deeper into my portfolio you will quickly realize that my trades are usually into comparative analysis with commodity prices and trades like steel, shipping, vaccines and recently palm oil. I made some good money in steel, sold to early in dksh but it is all with the realisation that these are transitory businesses. Hiaptek had crashed, harbour has crashed, palm oil prices will definitely stabilize. Not everything Calvin says is true, and palm oil will definitely go back down sooner or later.

 

Meanwhile, I go in and buy innoprise plantations. It is a trade don't make any mistake, but more of a swing medium turn trade where every quarter you get paid a very nice dividend.Palm oil is now at 5000+, more than double what it was. My own small farm has solved it's worker issues and running full steam ahead.

But why Innoprise? Well it's condition is very unique compared to many other players. The structure is owned by the Sabah Foundation 60% which relies on dividends to run the yayasan activities. Instead of having a full arm of managers and workers and blood sucker directors receiving huge pay checks, as a listed company YS has done a very smart thing in minimizing the cost structure running it more like a reits and letting its thousands of hectares to be managed by other palm oil professionals. It can thus maintain a 80% dividend payment scheme to shareholders. You happy. I happy. We all happy.

 

How much would you pay for a company with no debt, very stable and simple management, a 14.5% dividend yield, and current asking prices rm1.37, which pays you dividend like clockwork. At 6 cents dividend for latest quarter, you quickly realize the type of trades that I like to make.

 

Low risk, low problems.

 

How much is your cost of trade?

 

FYI the new financial controller for yayasan Sabah is Joshua, who used to be the ambank boss. Very smart guy. He has some good ideas indeed for innoprise plantations. I wish him all the best and hope he gets to turn around YS back to its glory days.

 

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp

 

 

 

This is my trackable portfolio over 3 years now published openly on i3 investor for all to see my actual performance over time. It cannot be deleted and you can take screenshots to see if I I trade what I do. I truly believe this should be a standard and minimum requirement for any "guru" selling investment course or classes. If we can make fund managers and hedge funds post their audited returns and p/l, I'm sure all those tyyaps and other FINANCIAL education programs sellers should be audited to show their minimum 5 year returns in the stock market.

 

Surprised and sad why this is not a requirement, as stock market is becoming more and more unregulated by the day

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ikanbilis20 thanks for sharing!
05/12/2021 8:56 AM
stockraider THE DANGER FAKE SENSE OF CONFIDENT THIS PHILIP HAS PROJECTED!

Alot of People would have remember Raider had a bet with Philip on QL Rm 6.70 v Insas Rm 0.67 for 2 years loh!
FYI raider had beaten Philip on this for consecutive year 1 & year 2 plus overall win loh!

The main reason why Raider decide to bet is due to arrogrance of Philip belittling Insas & Sifu Sslee which is a very sound margin of safety investment pick loh!

True to raider analysis Insas turn out a better investment than QL loh!
Yes QL is a good company but this Philip has no sense of value by over paying for this stock mah!. Remember W.Buffet says never over pay on your investment bcos it will drag down your return mah!
The valuation metrics of QL do not support QL share price when he bet with Raider loh!

Coming back to Innoprise, Philip recent pick...u will have notice that sifu calvin also promoted this stock loh! As usual General Raider agreed with most of sifu calvin palmoil stock selection as sound especially TAANN and BPlant but Innoprise is one of the few stock in which Raider has big reservation despite giving good decent dividend yield of 7% to 8% pa far exceed most plantation loh!

Why leh ?
1. Innoprise is a concession or Business Reits with very short term expiry coming in about 8 years term....meaning in 8 years time Sabah foundation can just take back their land by not renewing the concession loh!
2. There is a dispute between Sabah foundation and Innoprise on the quantum of the lease rental for the land that innoprise suppose to pay loh! This the sabah govt said Innoprise under paid them for many years loh! If Innoprise will to make good of this payment for many years, the company will not report such a good result anymore loh!
3. Given such a major dispute with the sabah govt the risk of non renewal of the concession is extremely high loh! Even renewed there will be big back payment & much higher future lease Rental needed that will affect its attractiveness of this stock.
4. Most Plantation own their lands with only a few exception like FGV and Innoprise operate on a concession basis loh! Under this model this company does not really benefit from appreciation of land prices which is a natural hedge against inflation mah!

Coming back another Philip high risk pick is yinson! This is touted by Philip as one of the best investment....u will need to becareful on Yinson loh!
1. Yinson has very high borrowings mah!
2. The FPSO has very long gestation period loh!
3. Oil & Gas have negative ESG and the trend are to shunned this type of business in the long run loh! What happen oil & gas collapse, yinson customer can usually just walk away leaving the company to carry the bags loh! This has happened b4 in the case of Armada loh!

I believe Yinson risk is like Serba loh....just be very careful when u look at Yinson...as based on past records Philip analysis had missed many critical area & his analysis are superficial with flaws as in the case of serba & scib. Philip is actually a high risk taker mah!

It is best u go for TAANN if u want to invest base on dividend yield as this stock can give 6%pa to 7%pa but if u want capital gain on land appreciation Bpland is the pick as it has big track of potential commercial & residential land at the cost of plantation mah. Its dividend yield also quite decent at 4% pa to 5% pa loh!
The above stocks is also calvin sifu pick loh!
05/12/2021 11:18 AM
Philip ( buy what you understand) You do realize that innoprise is owned by sabah foundation right? In fact the managing director is appointed by the board of trustees of yayasan sabah. The reason for doing so is that foundation is tax free due to being a foundation, while innoprise is the main sabah foundation subsidiary that is allowed to do business. YS can only receive dividends as part of its requirement to being a foundation, so there is no such thing as taking back as it already "belongs" to yayasan sabah.
05/12/2021 4:12 PM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Why are you trying to promote your stocks in other people's write up?
05/12/2021 4:12 PM
stockraider U R the shareholder of Yayasan sabah or the Shareholder of innoprise mah ?

If u r the shareholder of yayasan sabah than there is no question of taking back of the palmoil land....bcos the land belong to yayasan sabah maH!

The key point for Innoprise are;

1. Innoprise is a concession or Business Reits with very short term expiry coming in about 8 years term....meaning in 8 years time Sabah foundation can just take back their land by not renewing the concession loh!
2. There is a dispute between Sabah foundation and Innoprise on the quantum of the lease rental for the land that innoprise suppose to pay loh! This the sabah govt said Innoprise under paid them for many years loh! If Innoprise will to make good of this payment for many years, the company will not report such a good result anymore loh!
3. Given such a major dispute with the sabah govt the risk of non renewal of the concession is extremely high loh! Even renewed there will be big back payment & much higher future lease Rental needed that will affect its attractiveness of this stock.
4. Most Plantation own their lands with only a few exception like FGV and Innoprise operate on a concession basis loh! Under this model this company does not really benefit from appreciation of land prices which is a natural hedge against inflation mah!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 5, 2021 4:12 PM | Report Abuse

You do realize that innoprise is owned by sabah foundation right? In fact the managing director is appointed by the board of trustees of yayasan sabah. The reason for doing so is that foundation is tax free due to being a foundation, while innoprise is the main sabah foundation subsidiary that is allowed to do business. YS can only receive dividends as part of its requirement to being a foundation, so there is no such thing as taking back as it already "belongs" to yayasan sabah.
05/12/2021 4:41 PM
stockraider The counters i mentioned is related to palmoil stocks and comparable to innoprise business mah!

Bcos u bad mouthed sifu calvin, simply promote palmoil counters here....then u should be open when people are critical of your palmoil picks mah!?

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 5, 2021 4:12 PM | Report Abuse

Why are you trying to promote your stocks in other people's write up?
05/12/2021 4:49 PM
cemertugus Innoprices corporation Sdn Bhd own by Sabah foundation and they hold more than 50% share in Innoprice Plantations Berhad. They also received dividend. if they request big dividend we as shareholder also get the same which are good.

Nothing to worry, Agreement between Innoprices corporation Sdn Bhd (Serijaya) and Sabah Gov (Benta Wawasan) already extended to 60 years to develop 22,763 hectares land and i personally dont think they will take back the land since Sabah Foundation hold Inno share. What they can do is to entered into supplementary agreement.

in addtional cold eye also hold inno share. hihihihi
05/12/2021 10:02 PM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Correct, which is why I bought innoprise plantations. Stockraider half past six simply talk just to hear his own sound without knowing why lengyuen also buy inno and not taan nonsense.

But you have to realize why YS is also applying for additional 15k hectares state land adjoining to give to inno plant again within the next few years

>>>>>>>>>>

Nothing to worry, Agreement between Innoprices corporation Sdn Bhd (Serijaya) and Sabah Gov (Benta Wawasan) already extended to 60 years to develop 22,763 hectares land and i personally dont think they will take back the land since Sabah Foundation hold Inno share. What they can do is to entered into supplementary agreement.

in addtional cold eye also hold inno share. hihihihi
05/12/2021 10:02 PM
06/12/2021 8:02 AM
stockraider Pakai otak think lah!

As usual philip only look at the superficial at positive side without obvious assessing without assessing the negative high risk mah!

1. Innoprise is a concession or Business Reits with very short term expiry coming in about 8 years term....meaning in 8 years time Sabah foundation can just take back their land by not renewing the concession loh!
2. There is a dispute between Sabah foundation and Innoprise on the quantum of the lease rental for the land that innoprise suppose to pay loh! This the sabah govt said Innoprise under paid them for many years loh! If Innoprise will to make good of this payment for many years, the company will not report such a good result anymore loh!
3. Given such a major dispute with the sabah govt the risk of non renewal of the concession is extremely high loh! Even renewed there will be big back payment & much higher future lease Rental needed that will affect its attractiveness of this stock.
4. Most Plantation own their lands with only a few exception like FGV and Innoprise operate on a concession basis loh! Under this model this company does not really benefit from appreciation of land prices which is a natural hedge against inflation mah!

Why there is a very high chance the concession will not be renewed leh ?

The Board or the Govt feel that Inno try to cheat them by changing the agreement in 2019 with the management thats why it was rejected by the Board Of Directors of the Govt side loh!

Even if the rental is renewed there will be huge compensation for past payment plus very much higher rental to be paid mah!

That means very uncertainty loh!

Lu tau boh ?


Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 6, 2021 8:02 AM | Report Abuse

Correct, which is why I bought innoprise plantations. Stockraider half past six simply talk just to hear his own sound without knowing why lengyuen also buy inno and not taan nonsense.

But you have to realize why YS is also applying for additional 15k hectares state land adjoining to give to inno plant again within the next few years

>>>>>>>>>>

Nothing to worry, Agreement between Innoprices corporation Sdn Bhd (Serijaya) and Sabah Gov (Benta Wawasan) already extended to 60 years to develop 22,763 hectares land and i personally dont think they will take back the land since Sabah Foundation hold Inno share. What they can do is to entered into supplementary agreement.

in addtional cold eye also hold inno share. hihihihi
05/12/2021 10:02 PM
06/12/2021 8:15 AM
Sslee Good morning Philip,
What happen to StoneCo NASDAQ:STNE https://g.co/kgs/YYnk8e

Are you still holding Stoneco?
06/12/2021 8:33 AM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Yes, in fact after selling the big sum previously at 82, now buying back shares at 15+ due to Brazil problems with their version of CTOS which causing losses to the credit lending portion of their digital bank portion( to revamp again by Brazil government) and omicron fears for business. Time for cheap sales again due to economic worries. Don't worry, stoneco growth and profits still very good, just because of China won't drag it down.
06/12/2021 8:56 AM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Innoprise board is all appointed by sabah foundation. In fact our CM is the chairman of both sabah foundation and innoprise. What are you talking about?

>>>>>>
stockraider Pakai otak think lah!
06/12/2021 8:59 AM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Why your stories always talk halfway one? The dispute is between the JV companies of innoprise ( and other investors) and state government where innoprise help to obtain the land from government, but those west Malaysian companies who JV with innoprise to run the business just need to pay the premium for land conversation to CL. All they need to do is pay rm500 per acre. 10,000 acres of land just need to pay 5 million and can get bank charge. However as this takes time to convert at land and survey many of them start business first, but when time comes to pay premium the JV companies suddenly no money. 50k to get 100 acres of land for free I think it's very cheap.

This is the problem here. Premium. Not whatever magic stories you are telling. Keyboard warriors la you. Don't know anything about sabah simply talk cock.

>>>>>>>
2. There is a dispute between Sabah foundation and Innoprise on the quantum of the lease rental for the land that innoprise suppose to pay loh! This the sabah govt said Innoprise under paid them for many years loh! If Innoprise will to make good of this payment for many years, the company will not report such a good result anymore loh!
06/12/2021 9:04 AM
stockraider Go & read the Dispute properly lah!

Do not confuse mah!

The Board Of Directors....of the opposing side ...hold the interest of the plantation land with the GOVT & not INNO... mah!

INNO is a sub subcon loh!


Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 6, 2021 8:59 AM | Report Abuse

Innoprise board is all appointed by sabah foundation. In fact our CM is the chairman of both sabah foundation and innoprise. What are you talking about?

>>>>>>
stockraider Pakai otak think lah!


Philip ( buy what you understand)
4276 posts
Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 6, 2021 9:04 AM | Report Abuse

Why your stories always talk halfway one? The dispute is between the JV companies of innoprise ( and other investors) and state government where innoprise help to obtain the land from government, but those west Malaysian companies who JV with innoprise to run the business just need to pay the premium for land conversation to CL. All they need to do is pay rm500 per acre. 10,000 acres of land just need to pay 5 million and can get bank charge. However as this takes time to convert at land and survey many of them start business first, but when time comes to pay premium the JV companies suddenly no money. 50k to get 100 acres of land for free I think it's very cheap.

This is the problem here. Premium. Not whatever magic stories you are telling. Keyboard warriors la you. Don't know anything about sabah simply talk cock.

>>>>>>>
2. There is a dispute between Sabah foundation and Innoprise on the quantum of the lease rental for the land that innoprise suppose to pay loh! This the sabah govt said Innoprise under paid them for many years loh! If Innoprise will to make good of this payment for many years, the company will not report such a good result anymore loh!
06/12/2021 9:11 AM
Sslee https://electrek.co/2021/12/02/toyota-partners-byd-affordable-electric-car/

Toyota partners with BYD to build affordable $30,000 electric car
Fred Lambert - Dec. 2nd 2021 3:09 pm

Will Tesla maintain it dominant position in EV?
06/12/2021 9:29 AM
joerakmo from annual report

Serijaya Industri Sdn. Bhd., the wholly-owned subsidiary of the Company, entered into the Agreement for Oil Palm

Plantation dated 18 November 2005 with Benta Wawasan Sdn. Bhd. (the licensee of the land) to develop a parcel of
land measuring approximately 22,763 hectares situated in the locality of Gunung Rara/Kalabakan, Sabah. Pursuant
to the agreement, Serijaya Industri Sdn. Bhd. is granted the permission to develop the said land into an oil palm

plantation for a period of 30 years. On 29 August 2013, the tenure for the permission to develop the said land into
oil palm plantation was extended to 60 years.
On 9 July 2018, both parties entered into a third supplementary agreement of the Agreement for Oil Palm

Plantation, whereby the subsidiary should pay rental of RM2,201,502 covering the period from year 2018 to year
2070, in an equal annual rent of RM41,538 and interest on the total outstanding rental sum at the rate of 8% per

annum on a reducing balance basis.
06/12/2021 10:11 AM
stockraider It is from this supplementary agreement the dispute started, the opposing side Directors rejected this Supplementary Agreement mah!


"plantation for a period of 30 years. On 29 August 2013, the tenure for the permission to develop the said land into
oil palm plantation was extended to 60 years.
On 9 July 2018, both parties entered into a third supplementary agreement of the Agreement for Oil Palm
Plantation, whereby the subsidiary should pay rental of RM2,201,502 covering the period from year 2018 to year
2070, in an equal annual rent of RM41,538 and interest on the total outstanding rental sum at the rate of 8% per annum on a reducing balance basis."!

THAT Means by latest 2035....they can take back the land mah!

Thats the reason why Inno pay high dividend...bcos they know they knew high chance their business going bungkus when lease expired loh!


Posted by joerakmo > Dec 6, 2021 10:11 AM | Report Abuse

from annual report

Serijaya Industri Sdn. Bhd., the wholly-owned subsidiary of the Company, entered into the Agreement for Oil Palm

Plantation dated 18 November 2005 with Benta Wawasan Sdn. Bhd. (the licensee of the land) to develop a parcel of
land measuring approximately 22,763 hectares situated in the locality of Gunung Rara/Kalabakan, Sabah. Pursuant
to the agreement, Serijaya Industri Sdn. Bhd. is granted the permission to develop the said land into an oil palm

plantation for a period of 30 years. On 29 August 2013, the tenure for the permission to develop the said land into
oil palm plantation was extended to 60 years.
On 9 July 2018, both parties entered into a third supplementary agreement of the Agreement for Oil Palm

Plantation, whereby the subsidiary should pay rental of RM2,201,502 covering the period from year 2018 to year
2070, in an equal annual rent of RM41,538 and interest on the total outstanding rental sum at the rate of 8% per

annum on a reducing balance basis.
06/12/2021 10:20 AM
stockraider But this Inno...amortise their concession over 74 years instead of over the suppose 14 yrs (expiry in 2035} loh!

As a result of lower amortization cost their....profit appear high in INNO mah!

Lu tau boh ?
06/12/2021 10:24 AM
stockraider Why the opposing side directors rejected the Supplenmental Agreement with Inno leh ??

Ans; Why got people so silly sign a fixed rental for 60 years without taking into accounts of inflation leh ?

Do u know that goreng kiautiaw 30 years ago cost less than Rm 1.00 but today cost around Rm 6.00 leh ??

There are likely to be an element of fraud in this unfair contract loh!
06/12/2021 10:35 AM
joerakmo Fraud??? where it favors the shareholders.....I like this management!
10% yield compounded over next 14 years! what not to like.
06/12/2021 11:16 AM
stockraider Fraud by the listed innoprise management taking advantage of... their opposing side who own the rights of land rights mah!
Why the opposing side directors rejected the Supplenmental Agreement with Inno leh ??

Ans; Why got people so silly sign a fixed rental for 60 years without taking into accounts of inflation leh ?

Do u know that goreng kiautiaw 30 years ago cost less than Rm 1.00 but today cost around Rm 6.00 leh ??

There are likely to be an element of fraud in this unfair contract loh!


Lu tau boh ?



Posted by joerakmo > Dec 6, 2021 11:16 AM | Report Abuse

Fraud??? where it favors the shareholders.....I like this management!
10% yield compounded over next 14 years! what not to like.
06/12/2021 11:19 AM
joerakmo @stockraider do you know exactly who 'the opposing side who own the rights of land rights mah'.Please check before u tembak.
06/12/2021 11:38 AM
cemertugus hahaha stockraider worry to much..
06/12/2021 11:47 AM
stockraider Same side but different team mah...lu tau boh ??

Thus different vested interest mah!

Why invest in a co...tipu here & tipu there in order to make money leh ?


Posted by joerakmo > Dec 6, 2021 11:38 AM | Report Abuse

@stockraider do you know exactly who 'the opposing side who own the rights of land rights mah'.Please check before u tembak.
06/12/2021 12:44 PM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Your mean yayasan sabah majority owner of innoprise plantations is cheating itself? Why would they cheat their own self? I am sure there is a reason here somewhere
06/12/2021 1:27 PM
stockraider Exactly loh....it is innoprise that appear cheating mah!

Thats why the opposing BOD rejected the supplemental agreement loh!

But whether Yayasan people are involve to be further investigated mah!

U mean if u own 40%....but if u cheat yourself, u own 100% of the cheating monies lu tau boh ?

U still make,,,,if u cheat yourself mah!

Same side but different team mah...lu tau boh ??

Thus different vested interest mah!

Why invest in a co...tipu here & tipu there in order to make money leh ?



Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 6, 2021 1:27 PM | Report Abuse

Your mean yayasan sabah majority owner of innoprise plantations is cheating itself? Why would they cheat their own self? I am sure there is a reason here somewhere
06/12/2021 1:33 PM
stockraider REMEMBER THIS DANGER SIGN LOH!

Why the opposing side directors rejected the Supplenmental Agreement with Inno leh ??

Ans; Why got people so silly sign a fixed rental for 60 years without taking into accounts of inflation leh ?

Do u know that goreng kiautiaw 30 years ago cost less than Rm 1.00 but today cost around Rm 6.00 leh ??

There are likely to be an element of fraud in this unfair contract loh!
06/12/2021 1:35 PM
calvintaneng This is the rating on palm oil by Calvin Tan

1. Taann
Full 100 marks

2. SOP
90 marks. If can follow Taann dividend example then 100 marks

3. Tsh
90 marks

4. Thplant
90 marks

5. Bplant
80 marks

6.Jtuasa
80 marks

,7. Fgv 80 marks
If privatised price can increase then marks will go up

8. Innoprise
80 marks
06/12/2021 2:28 PM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Cheap cars have been around in China forever. From qqq stock favorite gac, to byd, to baoling. Why does people still buy Tesla more than all other others (60% market share) in 2021?

If you could buy a 40k family sedan than can outrun a Lamborghini, would you get it? Or would you buy that cheap byd which goes from 0-60 in 9 second?

For an extra 10k with software that keeps updating itself for free? I guess you can think about it.

Tesla is value for money. They don't sell Tesla cars expensive because they can. They sell it expensive because they put the best things in it.

>>>>>
Will Tesla maintain it dominant position in EV?
06/12/2021 4:53 PM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Your master Calvin already putting 80 masks on inno. Why are you still arguing and talking nonsense. Just keep quiet and buy la. Why you want to argue so much?

Got 6 cents dividend per share no need to argue too much liao.

>>>>>>>
stockraider REMEMBER THIS DANGER SIGN LOH!

Why the opposing side directors rejected the Supplenmental Agreement with Inno leh ??
06/12/2021 4:55 PM
Johnzhang I wonder on what yardsticks Calvin assigned the marks and ranking ?

My yardsticks based on dividend, PE ,BS strength, and Management quality and my selections are limited to the mid /small cap plantations as follow: Taann, Swkpltn, MHC, Bplant, SOP, Cepat and KimLoong

THplant is doing fine with earnings (prospective 2021 PE of 5.6x) but poor in most other areas. I put in some money in it because it seem to me the most likely privatisation candidate in the very near future. Thplant has limited freefloat shares.

Due to limited capital, I don't look at the big boys who will continue to be subjected to EPF selldown.
06/12/2021 5:22 PM
joerakmo @ stockraider The supplemental agreement is signed,Pray tell your source where it is rejected; as such material information IF ITS TRUE would need to be disclosed anyways.Else its just your spinning.
Dividends are paid from taxed earnings(retained profits) whereas some companies actually borrow to pay dividends if their cash flow is good.
Tipu earnings can pay dividends meh??
06/12/2021 9:55 PM
CynicalCyan Philip's portfolio mostly consists of long term safe bets, with companies' being industry giants that have exemplary track record, which is expected to continue in the foreseeable future.

Companies like PCHEM & HARTA are among the top 10 companies with most cash in the entire BUrsa.

YINSON has huge debt, but recent years' debt for growth seems promising. It is also among the leading global FPSO companies.

UOADEV is also another property giant with property at strategic locations.

Your short-term bets are erratic though, jumping from BAUTO, PMETAL, INNO, etc.

Problem is, probably only 2% of readers would be convinced to adopt a long term safe bet portfolio like yours successfully.
07/12/2021 12:30 AM
Philip ( buy what you understand) Interesting. That 2% is also probably the difference between those who have and those who have nots.

All I can say is, people like me, Warren, li lu, cold eye all have no qualms with sharing our trackable portfolio. And we have no need to run classes or sell stock picking programs and go around doing speaking engagements.

You will notice people like stockraider and Calvintaneng and others always talking very loudly and hijacking other threads to promote their own stock picks. But they never show their long term results and performance. As usual these clowns only show the good results and hide the non performing ones, only show the performance gain and not their exposure and trading conviction to the stock. They tell you nonsense like too many trades a day to site in a portfolio, or come to kl and ask my remiser give you the results etc.

There are a few simple mental models you need to think about to make millions in the market.

1. Inflation will get greater over time.
2. Cash will become trash, so convert cash into assets over the long term.
3. Time in the market beats trying to time the market.
4. Holding assets like stocks over long periods beats holding cash, gold, property and bonds as shown over the last 100 years.

These are all simple facts that if you put together become a very simple rule.

Buy and hold. ( Wonderful companies).

Notice the caveat.
07/12/2021 5:33 AM
Philip ( buy what you understand) The simple problem traders face over and over is this: after sell buy what?
07/12/2021 5:34 AM
Sslee Philip already answer his own question after sell buy what?

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 6, 2021 8:56 AM | Report Abuse

Yes, in fact after selling the big sum previously at 82, now buying back shares at 15+ due to Brazil problems with their version of CTOS which causing losses to the credit lending portion of their digital bank portion( to revamp again by Brazil government) and omicron fears for business. Time for cheap sales again due to economic worries. Don't worry, stoneco growth and profits still very good, just because of China won't drag it down.
07/12/2021 6:15 AM
Sslee As a trader you can sell the stock in batches on its way up and then buy back the same stock in batches on it way down and repeat the cycle many time.

Do not over worries about after sell buy what? Just keep some ready cash in case big discount sales coming.
07/12/2021 7:09 AM
stockraider U need understand this loh!

Actually General Raider is an equal peers to Sifu Calvin, thus raider always act independently without fear or favor mah!
The fact is alot of time General Raider reach the same conclusion as calvin bcos most great usually think alike loh!

But some of time we can deviate due to the use of different valuation tech, or different investment matrix or sometime we do not have same info to reach our conclusion mah!

Why Raider argue leh ??
To alert people from being kon mah!
Raider would not like innocent party, wrongly being influence mah!

On the issue of just get 6 sen of dividend & keep quiet loh ?
Ans ; DO U KNOW MOST PONZI SCHEME CAME FROM HIGH DIVIDEND WITHOUT LOOKING PROPERLY AT NEGATIVE RISK & BAD GOVERNANCE LEH?!
ONLY DUNGUS WILL TAKE THIS KIND OF ADVICE OF PHILIP (WITH BAD INTENTION}, COLLECT DIVIDEND & KEEP QUIET LOH!

LU TAU BOH ?

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 6, 2021 4:55 PM | Report Abuse

Your master Calvin already putting 80 masks on inno. Why are you still arguing and talking nonsense. Just keep quiet and buy la. Why you want to argue so much?

Got 6 cents dividend per share no need to argue too much liao.

>>>>>>>
stockraider REMEMBER THIS DANGER SIGN LOH!

Why the opposing side directors rejected the Supplenmental Agreement with Inno leh ??
07/12/2021 8:23 AM
stockraider ALWAYS LOOK AT THE FACTS MAH!

"REMEMBER THIS DANGER SIGN LOH!

Why the opposing side directors rejected the Supplenmental Agreement with Inno leh ??

Ans; Why got people so silly sign a fixed rental for 60 years without taking into accounts of inflation leh ?

Do u know that goreng kiautiaw 30 years ago cost less than Rm 1.00 but today cost around Rm 6.00 leh ??

There are likely to be an element of fraud in this unfair contract loh!"

THE OFFICIALLY FACTS IS THIS ISSUE IS STILL UNRESOLVED FOR MORE THAN 2 YEARS LOH!
TO SAY OTHERWISE LIKE JOE REASSURANCE IS JUST DANGEROUSLY SPECULATING MAH!

THE REASONS WHY INNO PAYS HIGH DIV BCOS:

"plantation for a period of 30 years. On 29 August 2013, the tenure for the permission to develop the said land into
oil palm plantation was extended to 60 years.
On 9 July 2018, both parties entered into a third supplementary agreement of the Agreement for Oil Palm
Plantation, whereby the subsidiary should pay rental of RM2,201,502 covering the period from year 2018 to year
2070, in an equal annual rent of RM41,538 and interest on the total outstanding rental sum at the rate of 8% per annum on a reducing balance basis."!

THAT Means by latest 2035....they can take back the land mah!

Thats the reason why Inno pay high dividend...bcos they know they knew high chance their business going bungkus when lease expired loh!


LU TAU BOH ?


Posted by joerakmo > Dec 6, 2021 9:55 PM | Report Abuse

@ stockraider The supplemental agreement is signed,Pray tell your source where it is rejected; as such material information IF ITS TRUE would need to be disclosed anyways.Else its just your spinning.
Dividends are paid from taxed earnings(retained profits) whereas some companies actually borrow to pay dividends if their cash flow is good.
Tipu earnings can pay dividends meh??
07/12/2021 8:28 AM
stockraider Posted by stockraider > Dec 6, 2021 1:33 PM | Report Abuse X

Exactly loh....it is innoprise that appear cheating mah!

Thats why the opposing BOD rejected the supplemental agreement loh!

But whether Yayasan people are involve to be further investigated mah!

U mean if u own 40%....but if u cheat yourself, u own 100% of the cheating monies lu tau boh ?

U still make,,,,if u cheat yourself mah!

Same side but different team mah...lu tau boh ??

Thus different vested interest mah!

Why invest in a co...tipu here & tipu there in order to make money leh ?



Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Dec 6, 2021 1:27 PM | Report Abuse

Your mean yayasan sabah majority owner of innoprise plantations is cheating itself? Why would they cheat their own self? I am sure there is a reason here somewhere
07/12/2021 8:30 AM
stockraider REMEMBER THIS DANGER SIGN LOH!

Why the opposing side directors rejected the Supplenmental Agreement with Inno leh ??

Ans; Why got people so silly sign a fixed rental for 60 years without taking into accounts of inflation leh ?

Do u know that goreng kiautiaw 30 years ago cost less than Rm 1.00 but today cost around Rm 6.00 leh ??

There are likely to be an element of fraud in this unfair contract loh!
07/12/2021 8:31 AM
stockraider PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THE ABOVE ESSENTIAL POINT MAH!
DO NOT BE LIKE SERBA PEOPLE LOH!

IF U DISAGREE WITH RAIDER, JUST ARGUE IT OUT MAH!

THERE SHOULD BE NOTHING TO HIDE MAH!
07/12/2021 8:33 AM
Philip ( buy what you understand) the difference here is why argue? this is a stock forum, not an argument forum. if want to argue, please show me your portfolio and your stocks that you are holding first. then same level of discussion to do
07/12/2021 12:59 PM
Sslee Watch up Tesla. BYD and many others are catching up. Tesla with PE 300+ is this sustainable?

https://thedriven.io/2021/12/15/byd-aims-to-become-second-car-company-to-reach-one-million-ev-sales-in-a-year/

Chinese automotive manufacturer BYD is reportedly targeting sales of electric vehicles and other “new energy vehicles” of up to 1.2 million in 2022.

According to local Chinese reports of a recent investor conference call, BYD’s monthly sales of new energy vehicles (NEV) is already approaching 100,000 units. Thus, BYD expects to sell around 600,000 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and between 500,000 and 600,000 plug-in hybrid EVs (PHEVs) during 2022.
16/12/2021 8:06 AM
stockraider Actually Tesla like bitcoin is a hype up not supported by true fundamental value loh!


Posted by Sslee > Dec 16, 2021 8:06 AM | Report Abuse

Watch up Tesla. BYD and many others are catching up. Tesla with PE 300+ is this sustainable?

https://thedriven.io/2021/12/15/byd-aims-to-become-second-car-company-...

Chinese automotive manufacturer BYD is reportedly targeting sales of electric vehicles and other “new energy vehicles” of up to 1.2 million in 2022.

According to local Chinese reports of a recent investor conference call, BYD’s monthly sales of new energy vehicles (NEV) is already approaching 100,000 units. Thus, BYD expects to sell around 600,000 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and between 500,000 and 600,000 plug-in hybrid EVs (PHEVs) during 2022.
16/12/2021 8:40 AM


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