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36 comment(s). Last comment by PlsGiveBonus at Nov 10, 2017 2:47 PM
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VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Oct 29, 2017 7:45 PM | Report Abuse

Hope kcchongnz may look into its EMS-vi peers eg. Uchitec / Pie / EG / Denko as the sector has more legs till 2020


Abrahmi
11 posts

Posted by Abrahmi > Oct 29, 2017 8:11 PM | Report Abuse

Very logical analysis. Tq for sharing. SKP Is the better choice


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Oct 29, 2017 8:13 PM | Report Abuse

看山像山
看山不是山
看山是山

不管怎样 王者归来了


gohkimhock
1364 posts

Posted by gohkimhock > Oct 29, 2017 8:17 PM | Report Abuse

Very good write up and analysis. Way better than someone who simply make things up by writing rubbish and called for a illogical price target of RM37 of a certain stock which he has vested interest on.


kcchongnz
6656 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > Oct 30, 2017 7:50 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by VenFx > Oct 29, 2017 07:45 PM | Report Abuse
Hope kcchongnz may look into its EMS-vi peers eg. Uchitec / Pie / EG / Denko as the sector has more legs till 2020


Those mentioned above may have good potentials but I think none of the above has the visibility of high growth as those of VS and SKP Resources.


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Oct 30, 2017 8:11 AM | Report Abuse

Gd morning Kcchongnz,
In some extent i do agree your reply, wondering the I.P. and Tech. Know How are the same important ingredients as the Capex to decide their value. That explain why Vsi advance compared to others EMS-vi peers.

EG working hard for the capex & i.p., if course i know it still not your cup of tea given your strict FA parameters.
Thx for the reply kcchongnz.


SharehlderOppression
190 posts

Posted by SharehlderOppression > Oct 30, 2017 9:27 AM | Report Abuse

Thanks for sharing Kcchongnz
Love reading your articles,
Keep up the good work


paperplane
20637 posts

Posted by paperplane > Oct 30, 2017 6:00 PM | Report Abuse

both are good.

The golden question is why mkt giving better valuation to VS?? Is it valid? Or SKPRES might play catch up?

The higher valuation for me make sense, because you as customer can get one stop solution from VS now, many things they settle for you, where SKPRES is still working on tht.


Imagine VS can be like FOXCONN, solution one stop for customer. even acquiring Sharp for LCD screen, thts the kind of strength needed.

Another point is technical know how. Do they have same level of technical exp? or is their engineer better than SKPRES etc, all these need to be answered.

VS serve various type customers, SKPRES majority one customer, few products only. So VS in a way more experience and has more know how on different products for me


kcchongnz
6656 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > Oct 30, 2017 10:37 PM | Report Abuse

Good points.

However, Opinions are subjective. I prefer objective stuff like numbers like ROE, ROIC, growth rate, cash flow, health of balance sheet etc.

Anyone can say anything, and can have his own opinion. But numbers don't lie.



Posted by Hengyuan: SEXY BABE RM21! > Oct 30, 2017 06:00 PM | Report Abuse
both are good.

The golden question is why mkt giving better valuation to VS?? Is it valid? Or SKPRES might play catch up?

The higher valuation for me make sense, because you as customer can get one stop solution from VS now, many things they settle for you, where SKPRES is still working on tht.


Imagine VS can be like FOXCONN, solution one stop for customer. even acquiring Sharp for LCD screen, thts the kind of strength needed.

Another point is technical know how. Do they have same level of technical exp? or is their engineer better than SKPRES etc, all these need to be answered.

VS serve various type customers, SKPRES majority one customer, few products only. So VS in a way more experience and has more know how on different products for me


Mc_Wei
150 posts

Posted by Mc_Wei > Oct 31, 2017 12:32 AM | Report Abuse

Dyson contributes about 90% of SKPRES revenue. Malaysian market doesn't give very high PE for companies that rely on 1 big customer. The same reason why Magni's PE is low despite all the strong numbers and ratios.


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Oct 31, 2017 1:09 AM | Report Abuse

To be able to grow together with Globally Big Brands are always wiser.


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Oct 31, 2017 1:16 AM | Report Abuse

Just VSi is always ahead of the trend, it is always the leader and first mover into the higher chain .

Skpres more like a Funds manager who always stay cautious,
While, VSi is the explorer for it's empire in the region.

Vsi will always has the first taste for the juice, bit it the sweet or bitter one ... but, over time they gain from the process. Thats, power up their strenght as long they didnt hit by the Armageddon.


360Capitalist
735 posts

Posted by 360Capitalist > Oct 31, 2017 1:33 AM | Report Abuse

The BIG factor to look at valuation for VS and SKP is Capacity Expansion which has been ignored by KC Chong by purely look at historical data.


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Oct 31, 2017 2:07 AM | Report Abuse

Nothing wrong,
That's the classic style ,
Always facts & figures 1st,

But, Ems-vi it's the earning capex counted.


paperplane
20637 posts

Posted by paperplane > Oct 31, 2017 2:36 AM | Report Abuse

Well, no right and wrong truly enough, unless you expert in the industry, then u know each management weakness and strength.

Serving one big customer is high risk enough. Why? Even you provide excellent jobs, you are always in mercy of one giving you job coming years. Second, one tiny little screwup , can be a human error or perhaps just an accidental mistakes, bye bye to your biggest customer as they have tons of others queing to serve them. Same like investment, always put egg in few basket. Watching one egg in just one basket is just too risky. Even a genius calculated everything, there will be things beyond calculation always. So why not deversify?


paperplane
20637 posts

Posted by paperplane > Oct 31, 2017 2:39 AM | Report Abuse

Investment is an art, it is always the things beyond numbers. If not, machine and artificial intelligent would have taken all analyst and fund mgrs job just by doing big data analytics. Oops, this becoming true anyway. Haha.

So who need analyst anyway???


goreng_kaki
1768 posts

Posted by goreng_kaki > Oct 31, 2017 10:01 AM | Report Abuse

VS'S PRODUCT QUALITY ALWAYS BETTER THAN SKPRES AND OTHERS SUPPLIER, THATS WHY DYSON PREFER TO GIVING MORE CONTRACT TO VS INDUSTRY INSTEAD OF SKPRES. THIS ALSO BOOSTING VS AGGRESSIVELY EXPAND ITS BUSINESS AND PRODUCTION LINES RECENTLY.

I AM INSIDER OF VS AND I HAVE FEW FRIEND WHO WORK IN SKPRES TOO, I KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE INDUSTRY AND CURRENT SITUATION OF 2 COMPANY.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE WRONG, BUT YOUR ANALYSIS PURELY BASED ON THE HISTORICAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT. INVESTMENT ARE LOOKING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF COMPANY.


stockmanmy
7051 posts

Posted by stockmanmy > Oct 31, 2017 10:11 AM | Report Abuse

so is investment a maths problem to be solved? or is it about business and management?


is it about buying the best business / management or about the buying the second best ?

is is about buyer the cheaper option like in a pasar malam ?

is it homogenous product or about heterogenous product?

since every company is different , when KC treats it like it is a commodity / homogenous product, .......well...you will get the inferior product/ company.......comes with the way you approach investment.


godhand
1647 posts

Posted by godhand > Oct 31, 2017 11:23 AM | Report Abuse

goreng_kaki VS'S PRODUCT QUALITY ALWAYS BETTER THAN SKPRES AND OTHERS SUPPLIER, THATS WHY DYSON PREFER TO GIVING MORE CONTRACT TO VS INDUSTRY INSTEAD OF SKPRES. THIS ALSO BOOSTING VS AGGRESSIVELY EXPAND ITS BUSINESS AND PRODUCTION LINES RECENTLY.

I AM INSIDER OF VS AND I HAVE FEW FRIEND WHO WORK IN SKPRES TOO, I KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE INDUSTRY AND CURRENT SITUATION OF 2 COMPANY.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE WRONG, BUT YOUR ANALYSIS PURELY BASED ON THE HISTORICAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT. INVESTMENT ARE LOOKING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF COMPANY.


And may i ask u how do you identify if a company is good or trash, consistent or not consistent, possibility of giving good dividend in the future or not, high risk or low risk, discount or overvalue. There's only 1 way stripping out numbers in the annual report and tabling numbers.

Please stop talking about future. Talking about future is assuming and assumption bears risk cause u duno shit. Unless you are god.
Focus on things u can touch, feel, see, trust, wether u like the product or not is more important coupled with strong FA of the product produced by the company.


Choivo Capital
3633 posts

Posted by Choivo Capital > Oct 31, 2017 1:08 PM | Report Abuse

both are expensive though.


kcchongnz
6656 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > Oct 31, 2017 2:24 PM | Report Abuse

Hi self-proclaimed accountant (I am increasingly and highly suspect you are an accountant as claimed by you).

Good points from you. Appended below are you comments with mine in CAPITAL LETTER.

Please enlighten us on my comments.


Posted by stockmanmy > Oct 31, 2017 10:11 AM | Report Abuse

so is investment a maths problem to be solved? or is it about business and management?

IN MY ARTICLE, I DISCUSS ABOUT THE PAST, PRESENT AND POTENTIAL FUTURE GROWTH OF THE COMPANY. I TALKED ABOUT HOW IT MAKES MONEY, FROM THE CAPITALS IT EMPLOYS. I DISCUSSED ABOUT HOW EFFICIENT IS ITS BUSINESS; MARGIN, ASSET TURNOVER, LEVERAGE IT EMPLOYS ETC. I ALSO TALKED ABOUT WHAT IS THE HEALTH OF ITS BALANCE SHEET, CASH FLOWS ETC.

FURTHERMORE, I DISCUSSED ABOUT ITS VALUATIONS IN RELATION TO ITS PEERS, USING ITS PRICE NOW.

AREN'T ALL THESE ABOUT THE BUSINESS, AND HOW ITS MANAGEMENT HAS PERFORMED?

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY, YOUR EVALUATION OF THE BUSINESSES OF BOTH THESE COMPANIES, AND THEIR MANAGEMENT. PLEASE!


is it about buying the best business / management or about the buying the second best ?

IN THE ARTICLE, MY POINTS OF VIEW ABOUT WHICH IS A BETTER BUSINESS IS HOW MUCH RETURN THE COMPANY GETS FROM THE CAPITAL EMPLOYED, CASH FLOWS, EARNINGS, AND WHICH BUSINESS IS CHEAPER WITH THE MARKET PRICES NOW.

SO HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHICH BUSINESS IS "THE BEST"? WHICH MANAGEMENT IS "THE BEST"? PLEASE!

is is about buyer the cheaper option like in a pasar malam ?

WELL, IF YOU THINK BUYING A SIMILAR SHIRT AT RM1000 AT AN UPMARKET SHOPPING MALL IS BETTER THAN ONE AT RM10 AT THE PASAR MALAM IS BETTER, I CAN'T HELP YOU. AFTERALL, YOU CLAIMED TO BE AN "ACCOUNTANT".

is it homogenous product or about heterogenous product?

CATCH NO BALL OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE? A HOMO PRODUCT?

since every company is different , when KC treats it like it is a commodity / homogenous product, .......well...you will get the inferior product/ company.......comes with the way you approach investment.

THESE TWO COMPANIES ARE CLOSE PEERS. IF YOU NOT HAPPY OF MY WAY OF COMPARING THEM, LETS HERE WHAT YOU SAY. PLEASE!


Teh Kieat Keoi
176 posts

Posted by Teh Kieat Keoi > Oct 31, 2017 3:46 PM | Report Abuse

kcchongnz is a successful investor, i always read his article. I support his point in comparison between VS and SKPRES


king36
772 posts

Posted by king36 > Oct 31, 2017 4:02 PM | Report Abuse

A bit confusing on PE.
Can somebody explain, pls.

Malaysian market doesn't give very high PE for companies that rely on 1 big customer. The same reason why Magni's PE is low despite all the strong numbers and ratios.


stockmanmy
7051 posts

Posted by stockmanmy > Oct 31, 2017 8:30 PM | Report Abuse

Dyson got lots of listed contractors in Malaysia but VS seems to always get all the best contracts.

This you would not know from his maths formulas.

But you will know if you got good intelligence and good research on the ground


kcchongnz
6656 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > Oct 31, 2017 10:07 PM | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Oct 31, 2017 08:30 PM | Report Abuse
Dyson got lots of listed contractors in Malaysia but VS seems to always get all the best contracts.

ME: WHERE ARE YOUR EVIDENCE ON YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE?
BEST CONTRACTS? HOW COME ITS NET PROFIT MARGIN IS 15% BELOW THAT OF SKPR WHICH I HAVE SHOWN YOU?
SO HOW DO YOU DEFINE "BEST"?


This you would not know from his maths formulas.

ME: THOSE NUMBERS WERE USED TO ANALYZE HOW GOOD A BUSINESS IS.
HOW CAN YOU CLAIM YOU ARE A "ACCOUNTANT" WHEN YOU CAN EVEN FATHOM SOME ACCOUNTING FOR BUSINESS?

But you will know if you got good intelligence and good research on the ground
ME: TELL ME WHAT YOUR "INTELLIGENCE", OR YOUR "GOOD RESEARCH" IS ALL ABOUT.


paperplane
20637 posts

Posted by paperplane > Oct 31, 2017 10:24 PM | Report Abuse

Goreng kaki, don't mid to share a bit? Is it VSgoing to get even more new product type contract, while skpres just serving probably same product with additional capacity only.....?
From what I understand , VS is more capable from engineering point of views. I am no expert is EMS , need your opinions


stockmanmy
7051 posts

Posted by stockmanmy > Nov 1, 2017 12:11 AM | Report Abuse

your maths formula cannot pakai,
its your attitude

you approach investment like a pasar malam
looking for the cheapest product...and getting the lowest quality product.

no wonder you cannot be super investor.


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Nov 1, 2017 12:33 AM | Report Abuse

Haiyo, manmy all nite ling trying to say mat tak boleh pakai...
Only x sense the only almighty formula ...
U need to proof that, come
Join me in EG, then kaboom and then claim the credit...
That , might stand a chance to convince sifu like kcchongnz.

EGgsy welcome manmy, come come ...dint wait too long
EGG gang with Epf now... next i don't know what ekse to kaboom,
Check the 2 horsey i picked to challenge with u COMel & Vis...
Kaboom nonstop...


stockmanmy
7051 posts

Posted by stockmanmy > Nov 1, 2017 12:37 AM | Report Abuse

ven...google investments and physics envy.....

kc suffers from physics envy, a disease many have written about.


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Nov 1, 2017 12:41 AM | Report Abuse

So, u dint want to hop in my tut tut ?
Like u look down my jingheng monyet ?
Kikiki


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Nov 1, 2017 12:44 AM | Report Abuse

If u hv the Almighty One formula, u should hoo on my tut tut ...
Come come, EGgsy got all the horsey u need


stockmanmy
7051 posts

Posted by stockmanmy > Nov 1, 2017 1:23 AM | Report Abuse

ven

Comintel sold their EMS business because it is a tough business. The Malay partners want out.

You survive and trive only if you are the best of the best....such as VS and Vitrox.


VenFx
14265 posts

Posted by VenFx > Nov 1, 2017 1:56 AM | Report Abuse

I purposely cjoose Comel & vis as my horsey ma, but u mot take my challenge lo.


kcchongnz
6656 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > Nov 1, 2017 6:09 PM | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Nov 1, 2017 12:11 AM | Report Abuse
your maths formula cannot pakai,
its your attitude
you approach investment like a pasar malam
looking for the cheapest product...and getting the lowest quality product.
no wonder you cannot be super investor.



Posted by godhand > Oct 31, 2017 11:23 AM | Report Abuse
And may i ask u how do you identify if a company is good or trash, consistent or not consistent, possibility of giving good dividend in the future or not, high risk or low risk, discount or overvalue. There's only 1 way stripping out numbers in the annual report and tabling numbers.

Please stop talking about future. Talking about future is assuming and assumption bears risk cause u duno shit. Unless you are god.
Focus on things u can touch, feel, see, trust, wether u like the product or not is more important coupled with strong FA of the product produced by the company.


PlsGiveBonus
3817 posts

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > Nov 1, 2017 10:01 PM | Report Abuse

Buy buy buy
Bitcoin TP : 9999.99
Many millionaire is made.


PlsGiveBonus
3817 posts

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > Nov 10, 2017 2:47 PM | Report Abuse

Bitcoin was already trading at a highly inflated rate in the troubled African country as its demand skyrocketed as a potential alternative to the dregs of a currency that Zimbabwe has left. However, that inflation has hit almost 100 percent as it trades about $13,000 per coin.

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