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68 comment(s). Last comment by stockraider at Jul 20, 2019 2:15 PM
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qqq3
13755 posts

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 20, 2019 1:05 PM | Report Abuse

get bond rates only, that is if u are lucky


Icon8888
19022 posts

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 1:05 PM | Report Abuse

I like margin of safety

But margin of safety based on earning, not margin of safety based on asset play


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:06 PM | Report Abuse

Based on discounted cashflow & Net Present Value....all investment should be converted to bond like return for comparison loh...!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 20, 2019 1:04 PM | Report Abuse

margin of safety like buying bonds... get bond rates only.


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:09 PM | Report Abuse

Insas has both margin safety on assets and margin of safety on earnings mah....!!

But it does not have speculative earnings growth like QL loh..!!

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 1:05 PM | Report Abuse

I like margin of safety

But margin of safety based on earning, not margin of safety based on asset play


deMusangking
4350 posts

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 1:13 PM | Report Abuse

Insas has both margin safety on assets and margin of safety on earnings mah....!!
for past, present n future?????


haha


Philip ( buy what you understand)
4117 posts

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Jul 20, 2019 1:26 PM | Report Abuse

How much is your returns from this investment concept raider? Your are line a college teacher talking daily about efficient market theory and teaching graduate students.

But your real life results do not jive with your margin of safety concept.

Arguing for arguing sake. How much money did you make practising this concept in your stockpicking?

Did you buy more hengyuan at rm18, rm15,rm10,rm8 when your opinion of "margin of safety" of hengyuan at pe10, pe15 was rm35-rm50.

Did you enjoy your returns then?


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:27 PM | Report Abuse

What KC says are valid downside of insas loh...!!

But right here i m not saying an outsider trying to unlock value on insas, but the insider owner trying to maximise value on insas and the consequence he indirectly unlocking value mah....!!

The key to this happen is the expiry of insas warrant in 20-2-2020 loh....!!

They is a high chance mkt will rerate too loh...!!

AS USUAL IF U WANT TO BUYOUT THE COMPANY, U WILL RATHER KEEP SHARE PRICE LOW MAH....THATS WHY THE MINORITY SHAREHOLDER FRUSTRATED LOH...!!

THUS INSAS INVESTOR JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT LOH...!!


KC COMMENT,
Conclusions

Deep value investing is not easy. It requires patience, and a lot of patience. It is not for the faint hearted. Insas has been undervalued for a long time. A catalyst may be required to unlock the value. Fund managers and institutional investors will not be able to endure it as they will be long fired by their investors before value is unlocked due to their temporary under-performance. Most individual investors also have no stomach for it. They will be laughed at by others embarking in this strategy as it does look stupid at times. But if a stock is way undervalued, not only by 10%, 20%, or even 50%, but a much larger discount such as 72% as that of Insas, the probability of success is higher. Of course, nothing is certain in this world. But at least the chance of losing money is very slim as the extreme cheapness and quality assets would have taken care of this. Insas has also been providing satisfactory return over the years, and it is likely continue to do so even if the deep value is not unlocked.

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:30 PM | Report Abuse

I DON LIKE TO BOAST...THE LAST TIME I BRAG,REMEMBER YOUR RESPONSE VERY BAD LOH...!

I WILL RATHER FOCUS ON INSAS POTENTIAL LOH....!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 20, 2019 1:26 PM | Report Abuse

How much is your returns from this investment concept raider? Your are line a college teacher talking daily about efficient market theory and teaching graduate students.

But your real life results do not jive with your margin of safety concept.

Arguing for arguing sake. How much money did you make practising this concept in your stockpicking?

Did you buy more hengyuan at rm18, rm15,rm10,rm8 when your opinion of "margin of safety" of hengyuan at pe10, pe15 was rm35-rm50.

Did you enjoy your returns then?


lizi
1995 posts

Posted by lizi > Jul 20, 2019 1:32 PM | Report Abuse

veteran investor used to say to me....avoid red chip stocks....and insas..lol


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:36 PM | Report Abuse

YES AVOID REDCHIPS STOCK BCOS THEIR ACCOUNTING BOOKS IS IN DOUBT, BUT NOT INSAS....BCOS U CAN SEE & SMELL VALUE ...RIGHT IN FRONT OF U MAH...!!

DO NOT MISS OPPORTUNITY...AS USUAL U NEED TO DO DUE DILIGENCE LOH..!!

SSLEE HAS DONE ALOT OF HARDWORK FOR US ALL LOH...!!

Posted by lizi > Jul 20, 2019 1:32 PM | Report Abuse

veteran investor used to say to me....avoid red chip stocks....and insas..lol


deMusangking
4350 posts

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 1:38 PM | Report Abuse

SSLEE HAS DONE ALOT OF HARDWORK FOR US ALL LOH...!! ????

sslee is also trapped in warrants???!!!!!!


haha


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:40 PM | Report Abuse

IF SSLEE CHOSE TO BE TRAPPED WITH INSAS WARRANT...IT IS DEFINITELY A CALCULATED RISK IN HIS FAVOR MAH...!!

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 1:38 PM | Report Abuse

SSLEE HAS DONE ALOT OF HARDWORK FOR US ALL LOH...!! ????

sslee is also trapped in warrants???!!!!!!


haha


lizi
1995 posts

Posted by lizi > Jul 20, 2019 1:41 PM | Report Abuse

due diligence?? long time already done loh......value trap confirmed....avoid...


lizi
1995 posts

Posted by lizi > Jul 20, 2019 1:43 PM | Report Abuse

don't lie to yourself lah...if share move to RM1.00, all sell like no tomorrow....no one will wait for whatever value they claim


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:44 PM | Report Abuse

But right here i m not saying an outsider trying to unlock value on insas, but the insider owner trying to maximise value on insas and the consequence he indirectly unlocking value mah....!!

The key to this happen is the expiry of insas warrant in 20-2-2020 loh....!!

They is a high chance mkt will rerate too loh...!!

AS USUAL IF U WANT TO BUYOUT THE COMPANY, U WILL RATHER KEEP SHARE PRICE LOW MAH....THATS WHY THE MINORITY SHAREHOLDER FRUSTRATED LOH...!!

THUS INSAS INVESTOR JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT LOH...!!

Posted by lizi > Jul 20, 2019 1:41 PM | Report Abuse

due diligence?? long time already done loh......value trap confirmed....avoid...


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 1:58 PM | Report Abuse

Strategy of a Corpotate Raider like What KC describe, if he were to raid insas, bcos the owner only hold 32.9% loh...!!

HE WILL APPROACH AS FOLLOWS;

1. stealthly he will accumulate insas warrant cheap bcos it is readyly available in abundance loh....!! He will collect as much as he can at low price.

2. He will slowly accumulate insas at below rm 1.00 loh...!!

3. Come to warrant expiry feb 2020 the insas owner has to make a choice to increase its shareholding by exercing the warrant & trigger a GO or let it lapse loh....!!

4. At this point the corporate raider can collect all the expiry warrant cheap cheap if the owner let it lapse loh...!! Or if owner exercise warrant he can aggressively collect the mother share loh...!!

5. Insas with NTA Rm 2.54, Inari worth Rm 600m and have Rm 550m is a wonderful target for corporate raider as its capitalization Rm 550m and the controlling block only 32.9% loh...!!

6. Together with hidden reserve INSAS is conservatively worth NTA Rm 3.00 loh...!!

THE OWNER BEING FINANCIAL SAVVY REALISED THIS RISK TOO LOH...!!


deMusangking
4350 posts

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 2:14 PM | Report Abuse

stockraider ... u r a lousy salesman!!!!!

inspite of ur big banners everri where, yours sales are not improving!!!!!!!

better find another job lah!!!!

hahaha


stockraider
21987 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 2:15 PM | Report Abuse

i m a very panlai investor not a salesman mah....!!

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 2:13 PM | Report Abuse

stockraider ... u r a lousy salesman!!!!!

inspite of ur big banners everri where, yours sales are not improving!!!!!!!

better find another job lah!!!!

hahaha

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