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124 comment(s). Last comment by stockraider at Jul 23, 2019 1:39 AM
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kcchongnz
6656 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > Jul 20, 2019 6:34 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by Connie555 > Jul 19, 2019 10:09 PM | Report Abuse
This Kay See only know how to choose a particular period for that stock to prove that it is better than others.
What if those people who bought at Rm1 at 2017, until now they lose about 20% nvr even recover yet after 2 years.
I also know how to pick a particular period to talk about share


Well, my comparisons for short-term, mid term and long term return of investing (not speculating)in a stock in this article were by comparing the returns over a one, three and ten years period from now, not trying to choose a date to suit.

Share price of those three stocks I used have changed by more than 500% over the last few years, which one you like to use?

If you are not agreeable to my benchmarks, you may use your own periods to dispel it. Please do and show us rather than just making a random statement like that.

Or if you prefer to use the peak and trough price of each stock, I know you won't be able to get them, I will provide you wit those prices which I took time to obtain from the Bursa graphs, maximum about 6 years, for your ease of reference as below,

Company Price Peak Trough Best gain Worst loss
Insas 0.800 1.300 0.400 100% -38%
Jaks 0.795 1.800 0.400 99% -56%
Sendai 0.460 1.700 0.400 15% -73%

To help you to understand them which I am not sure you could just by looking at the table above,

If you take the peak prices of $1.30, Insas has lost 38% to-date, compared to the loss of 56% and 73% respectively for Jaks and Sendai.

If you talk about gain from the lowest price for the last 6 years, and interestingly, all stocks have the same lowest price, Insas gained 100%, the same as Jaks, but 15% for Sendai respectively.

Take your pick, or go to do some data mining to come out with your own figures.


Icon8888
19022 posts

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 6:43 AM | Report Abuse

Pick stocks based on earning

assets play does not work

Ask calvintaneng how he almost went bankrupt punting assets play


Icon8888
19022 posts

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 6:44 AM | Report Abuse

The sooner you realise this the less 冤枉路you travel


77huat77
1758 posts

Posted by 77huat77 > Jul 20, 2019 8:09 AM | Report Abuse

Agree lo just like ekovest got toll asset but cannot up one


qqq3
13754 posts

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 20, 2019 9:00 AM | Report Abuse

There is method to icon....HTpadu 60 to $ 1.20 in a few months....the key is to find what u betting on.............

so why HTpadu 60 to $ 1.20?....Insas 80 past present and future?

truth is revealed in reality....to value investors, their truth is in their imagination.


qqq3
13754 posts

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 20, 2019 9:02 AM | Report Abuse

There is method to icon....HTpadu 60 to $ 1.20 in a few months....the key is to find what u betting on.............

so why HTpadu 60 to $ 1.20?....Insas 80 past present and future?

truth is revealed in reality....to value investors, their truth is in their imagination and in their stubbornness.


deMusangking
4272 posts

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 9:07 AM | Report Abuse

..to value investors, their truth is in their imagination and in their stubbornness.

--------------------------------------------------------------
addressed 2 raider mos probli!!!!!
anyway pray 4 him lah as his warrants will be roasted like KFC if mother < 1.00! must kesian him lah

haha


popo92
557 posts

Posted by popo92 > Jul 20, 2019 11:24 AM | Report Abuse

Margin of safety based on Intrinsic value is theoretically true but this intrinsic value should not based on merely net tangible assets value. It should based on the value that can create in future... earnings....


Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥
10128 posts

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jul 20, 2019 11:31 AM |

Post removed. Why?


stockraider
19861 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 12:30 PM | Report Abuse

I HATE TO DISPUTE WITH MY IDOL ICON, BUT IN THIS CASE, I NEED TO CORRECT THE MISCONCEPTION OF INVESTMENT & VALUE CREATION LOH...!!

HOW DO COMPANY CREATE VALUE AND SUPPORT ITS VALUATION LEH ??
IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND, U MUST UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF MONEY MAKING LOH...!!

A.SEEN FROM OPERATIONS GROWTH PERSPECTIVE
1. EARNINGS GROWTH
2. MKT LEADERSHIP & BRAND
3. STABILITY OF EARNINGS
4. STABILITY & CONSISTENT CASHFLOW

IN HERE THE INVESTORS IS WILLING TO PAY A PREMIUM, BCOS THEY ARE FORECASTING & SPECULATING IT WILL CONTINUE TO GROW MUCH MORE IN THE FUTURE THUS COUNTER LIKE QL, NESTLE, DLADY ETC.
USUALLY INVESTORS PAY HUGE PREMIUM FOR THIS SPECULATION LIKE QL PE 50X


B. SEEN FROM THE BASIS INHERENT CONTROL OF VALUABLE RESOURCES WHICH HAVE
GOOD VALUE.
1. IT COULD BE THE VALUE OF ITS ASSETS
2. IT COULD BE THE HIDDEN VALUE OF ITS ASSETS
3. IT COULD BE FROM THE LIQUID ASSETS IS HOLD LIKE CASH & SECURITIES.
4. IT COULD BE ITS NON SEXY PROFIT & CASHFLOW

FOR THESE, WE ARE TALKING OF VALUE INVESTMENT, U PAY A HUGE DISCOUNT FOR THE BUSINESS AND THIS IS BASE ON PREMISE WRONGLY RECOGNISE THE VALUE & THE POTENTIAL OF ITS BUSINESS & ASSETS LOH.
U ARE WILLING TO GIVE TIME FOR EITHER THE MARKET TO RERATE ITS POTENTIAL AND ACCORD IT A FAIRER OR BETTER VALUE IN FUTURE LOH...!!
OR WHEN THE MAJOR OWNER DECIDE TO RELEASE OR UNLOCK ITS VALUE LOH...!

EXAMPLE IF UR FATHER OWN AN ACRE OF EMPTY LAND IN BANDAR UTAMA AT COST OF RM 200K, U WILL EARN NOTHING, IN FACT,U HAVE NEGATIVE RETURN PAYING QUIT RENT & ASSESSMENT OF RM 30K A YEAR LOH...!!
BUT DO U ACCORD THIS VALUABLE LAND IS WORTH OR VALUE RM 100K ONLY OR BELOW SINCE EVERY YEAR WILL COST U RM 30K IN QUIT RENT & ASSESSMENT ?
IF RAIDER OFFER U DOUBLE RM 400K TO BUY OFF FROM U WOULD U SELL & WHAT ABOUT RM 1M LEH ??

OF COURSE U GO & CHECKOUT THE LAND VALUE 1ST LOH...IF IT IS VALUE RM 9M DEFINITELY U WILL LAUGH AT RAIDER FOR TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE MAH..!

AT RM 8-9M YOUR FATHER STILL DECIDE NOT TO SELL LOH...BCOS HE DO NOT NEED THE MONEY NOW & HE SEE THE POTENTIAL IT CAN GO TO RM 15M IN 5 YRS TIME LOH....!!

BUT SUPPOSE YOUR FATHER GENUINELY DECIDE TO SELL & UNLOCK VALUE & DECIDE TO SELL THIS LAND NOW AND HE IS GOING TO GET AT LEAST RM 8M AND YOUR FAMILY IS GOING TO MAKE RM 7.9M LOH...!!

ASSUME U HAVE 10% MINORITY SHARE OF THIS LAND R U WILLING TO SELL THIS LAND SHARE FOR RM 100K TO RAIDER BCOS IT HAS NO EARNINGS GROWTH LEH ??
IF YES U BE THE SOCHAI LIKE PHILIP, 3iii and Icon loh...!!

This is precisely value investment in insas all about loh ,buying into margin of safety with the view of mkt rerating realizing the true potential or actual value of insas loh..!!

Calvin Tan is not wrong, in fact he make very good profit on some shares based on this investment concept mah...!!


Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥
10128 posts

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jul 20, 2019 2:20 PM |

Post removed. Why?


stockraider
19861 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 2:22 PM | Report Abuse

correctloh...calvin tan also make alot of monies on pmcorp mah...!!

Posted by 3iii > Jul 20, 2019 2:20 PM | Report Abuse

>>>

Calvin Tan is not wrong, in fact he make very good profit on some shares based on this investment concept mah...!!

>>>>>

...on some shares.

Calvin is less modest. He made few hundred percentages on nu.erous shares.

The only problem is it is too difficult to believe.

For example, after about 10 years, his GSB rose to 22 sen and he suddenly appeared claiming he has now made a few hundred percents on GSB.

As I have mentioned already, the majority, if not most of the value investors failed to capture any gains in their undervalued stocks. Why? They have already sold these shares way before some of these shares show gains many years later. Patience is so so important. Also, many of their undervalued stocks stayed undervalued and are what we termed value traps.

Looks like calvin is one who hold onto his undervalued stocks forever. He must have hundreds of these and it is just fascinating and also unbelievable to see him declaring his hundred percentages gains each time one of his old recommendations have a temporary and non sustainable run.

Truly a fascinating and unbelievable story, to me at least. Raider is more credible in this respect, in resurrecting less number of his dead stocks to claim he made a killing after umpteen years of non activity.


stockraider
19861 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 2:27 PM | Report Abuse

Recent Calvin pick on asb is another superb value strategy mah...!!

value is unlocking for this stock mah....!!


Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥
10128 posts

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jul 20, 2019 2:42 PM |

Post removed. Why?


Icon8888
19022 posts

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 2:43 PM | Report Abuse

zzzzz


Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥
10128 posts

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jul 20, 2019 2:45 PM | Report Abuse

>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 2:27 PM | Report Abuse

Recent Calvin pick on asb is another superb value strategy mah...!!

value is unlocking for this stock mah....!!

>>>>


With so many recommendations in his list which is owned forever, a few shine at different occasions. Do you know within a 1 year period, it is not uncommon to see a stock price rising 50% and falling its equivalent 1/3rd.


Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥
10128 posts

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jul 20, 2019 2:46 PM |

Post removed. Why?


Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥
10128 posts

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jul 20, 2019 3:13 PM |

Post removed. Why?


Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥
10128 posts

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jul 20, 2019 3:32 PM |

Post removed. Why?


stockraider
19861 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 3:58 PM | Report Abuse

Warren Buffet already tell many sochai including 3iii & Philip, if u cannot stomach share mkt movement on your stock of more than 50%, u better don invest mah...!!

Investment in insas with huge margin of safety is to protect the stock normal negative fluctuation severe range Mah...!!

Usually margin of safety investment are contraian investment, u buy only when most investor not willing to buy mah...!!

If everyone are happy & want to chase like YINSON, Nestle & QL, u get an overvalue stock in which value investors will avoid loh...!!

Like Ben Graham say Mr Market sochai likes of Philip & 3iii will chase overvalue stock like Nestle & QL....it is for value investors sell to them loh....!!

Insas when it is deep undervaluation with PE less than 10x and NTA nore than Rm 2.50, u should buy mah....!!

It is that simple in investment buy when they is deep margin of safety...no need to be so complicated and trying to see or speculate next qtr profit higher or not loh ??

Posted by 3iii > Jul 20, 2019 2:45 PM | Report Abuse

>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 2:27 PM | Report Abuse

Recent Calvin pick on asb is another superb value strategy mah...!!

value is unlocking for this stock mah....!!
>>>>
With so many recommendations in his list which is owned forever, a few shine at different occasions. Do you know within a 1 year period, it is not uncommon to see a stock price rising 50% and falling its equivalent 1/3rd.

'''''''''''''''''''''

ONLY SOCHAI LIKE 3iii WILL SAYS THAT CALVIN ASB EXAMPLE IS BAD PROBLEM TO HAVE LOH...!!

IF MONIES FLOW INTO YOUR POCKET LIKE ASB. U SHOULD WELCOME IT & BE HAPPY LOH...!!
3iii IS A REAL SOCHAI, WITH NO BUSINESS SENSE LOH....!!


stockraider
19861 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 4:33 PM | Report Abuse

INVESTORS OF INSAS SHOULD BE HIGHLY CONFIDENT OF INSAS POTENTIAL TO MAKE GOOD MONIES LOH....!!

THE ONLY ISSUE THEY SHOULD FEAR, IS HOW LONG I NEED TO WAIT ONLY MAH...!!

THIS IS BCOS, THE HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY THE TRUE VALUE & QUALITY ASSETS IS CONFIRMED & BEYOND ANY DOUBT LOH....!!


stockraider
19861 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 4:36 PM | Report Abuse

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 4:31 PM | Report Abuse X

INVESTORS OF INSAS SHOULD BE HIGHLY CONFIDENT OF INSAS POTENTIAL TO MAKE GOOD MONIES LOH....!!

THE ONLY ISSUE THEY SHOULD FEAR, IS HOW LONG I NEED TO WAIT ONLY MAH...!!

THIS IS BCOS, THE HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY THE TRUE VALUE & QUALITY ASSETS IS BEYOND ANY DOUBT LOH....!!


lazycat
905 posts

Posted by lazycat > Jul 22, 2019 7:55 PM | Report Abuse

mr loh and 3iii , u 2 are idiots , pls stfu


stockraider
19861 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 23, 2019 1:39 AM | Report Abuse

Investment in insas call for a very successful investment tech, that very alien to Philip & 3iii loh....!!

AS RAIDER SAYS THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO SKIN A CAT LOH...!!

INSAS IS NOT SPECULATING THE FUTURE, IT IS LOOKING AT PRESENT VALUE OF INSAS EXCEEDING RM 3.00 V SHARE PRICE RM 0.80, THERE IS HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY AND IT IS RUN BY A COMPETENT OWNER LOH...!!

ON THE OTHERHAND IF U INVEST IN NESTLE & Ql U NEED SPECULATE THAT FUTURE GROWTH OF YOUR STOCK WILL EVENTUALLY CATCH UP WITH THE YOUR PRESENT OVERVALUE STOCK PRICE OF MORE THAN PE 50X LOH...!!

THE FALLACIES OF THIS APPROACH IS THE COMPANY CAN GROW & GROW, OVER MANY YEARS LEH, WHAT HAPPEN SALES & PROFIT FALTER ??

WHERE IS YOUR MARGIN OF SAFETY LEH ?? FOR INSAS, ON OTHER HAND, U CAN SEE IT ALREADY HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY, WHEN U BUY THE SHARE MAH...!!

(S=QR) Philip Raider, you realize the more you as info about INSAS, the worse the company sounds right? You are trying too hard to convince and win every argument.

1. You concept here is basically saying that INSAS management care more about themselves than the shareholders of the company. This might be a valid reason why no one wants to buy INSAS shares. When shareholders can see that the company has money ( no idea why in Australia) but chooses to give poor earnings for every dollar of RETAINED earnings, they should give it back to the shareholders. Hoarding cash, investing in cash burning startups, not giving returns to shareholders via dividends and share buybacks is a quick method to destroy confidence in the company.

I totally agree.

2. If 5 years from now, INSAS is only making 60-80 million, from a net asset economic business value of 1.7 billion, on such a risky business model as lending, stockbroker, private equity, startups then I think I have better things in life to do.

Raider has no ability to understand risk versus returns.

That is why he thinks INSAS is better than Berkshire.

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