I think those accumulated reasonable capital from local stocks...should venture overseas slowly with small capital first...to feel the depth of the water...at least for 6 months...before going heavy...
Icon, soojinhou...kindly post your recommendations in i3... easy for part-time man like me to monitor in a single location.
Malaysia stock: 1. Boss earn money for continuously few years positive net profit and thinking to listed in KLSE. 2. After listed in Bursa, Boss start how to draw the graft, earn huge profit, high enumeration and so etc. 3. This cycle can repeat at least 10-20 years. 4.No value, less dividend, less attractive.
US stock: 1. Boss start a business, the whole mindset is thinking about creating value.(this value mean value and impact to society but not the money value) 2. After company get profit, boss absorb more talent, R & D creating more value. 3. The counter in US basically have 2 important characteristics (cpital growth and dividend growth) 4. The rise in stock price is not cycle or goreng , but the value they sell their service to entire world.
IN Malaysia: Many good company creating value...but wrong marketing in whole world and less creativity...
Eg. Topglov, Kossan, Airasia, Penta....Only Glove company in Malaysia creating value. But the power is too low...For Airasia, due to political issue.....
The should learn, AIA, ALlianz, GE how they penetrated into other country even their own country have their own firm.
you can trade with etrade. just open a trading account outside...just be aware that trading involve the risk of "currency exchange" on top of the stock performance.
Any recommendation on a good, low cost broker to invest in foreign equity? I trade options with saxotrader and tastyworks. Both aren't so great for long term investing because of the maintenance costs. There is saxo investor which looks great but it's not available in Malaysia. TD ameritrade seems reasonable, I'm in the process of opening an account with them. Anyone uses TD? Or hv other suggestions.
I use maybank to invest in bursa. I hv a foreign trading account but it seems too much of a hassle and even my remiser doesn't suggest I use it.
PE 10 in malaysia is actually not that cheap, when interest rates are 3%, you are getting a premium of only 7% assuming you are perfectly right and the money is reinvested right.
just a simple reminder : if u cannot make money in your own tuff .. u cannot make in other ppl, if u lose money in your tuff, u will lose even more .. on top of poor info, late news, poor grasp of other country, foreign exchange eating up your money, got scammed, any development u will be the last to received, ... i've known personally a lot of ppl ... real ppl ... who started with bursa, go to FX, then oversea stock, then option, then ... disappear. THEY LOSE and LOSE and LOSE. One thing they wish ... to turn back the time, and never touch anything at all. These are TRUE STORIES. Sekian.
leno, my article says that you should invest in good foreign companies that can be held for real long term so as to enjoy compounded growth (I argue that such companies are rare in Malaysia, it is like looking for fish in desert)
I never ask people to punt forex, option, or speculative trade at foreign market
for those kind of activities, do it in Malaysia, if you want, so as to enjoy home advantage
Posted by leno > Nov 21, 2019 9:33 AM | Report Abuse
just a simple reminder : if u cannot make money in your own tuff .. u cannot make in other ppl, if u lose money in your tuff, u will lose even more .. on top of poor info, late news, poor grasp of other country, foreign exchange eating up your money, got scammed, any development u will be the last to received, ... i've known personally a lot of ppl ... real ppl ... who started with bursa, go to FX, then oversea stock, then option, then ... disappear. THEY LOSE and LOSE and LOSE. One thing they wish ... to turn back the time, and never touch anything at all. These are TRUE STORIES. Sekian.
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I have to agree with Leno totally.
You will know the local companies a lot better than the foreign ones.
As long as these companies are "WITHIN YOUR CIRCLE OF COMPETENCE", you will do alright.
Posted by Icon8888 > Nov 21, 2019 9:54 AM | Report Abuse
leno, my article says that you should invest in good foreign companies that can be held for real long term so as to enjoy compounded growth (I argue that such companies are rare in Malaysia, it is like looking for fish in desert)
I never ask people to punt forex, option, or speculative trade at foreign market
for those kind of activities, do it in Malaysia, if you want, so as to enjoy home advantage
I thought my article makes it very clear ?
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This post reveals a lot of the person and his investing. Rather mixed up thinking.
Let me just share a very simple statement of Buffett and the offered the reason why this statement is so powerful and rewarding, for those who understands it.
"It is better to buy and own a wonderful company at a fair price than a fair company at a wonderful price. Avoid a gruesome company at any price."
A wonderful company (a great company) grows its intrinsic value over a long time. You are buying into its earning power long term. Long term investing into these compounders offer a BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY.
MARGIN OF SAFETY is the 3 most important words of the book Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. It is this BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY that has reduced by risks in long term investing and at the same time, rewarded my investing over the long term.
I like Icon8888 open minded and humble, most importantly willing to share :)
I dont know about moat but i do know those companies like Airbus/Boeing, Adobe/Microsoft do have global moat. If i open an airline company, where else i buy airplane other than Airbus/Boeing? If i open a company need softwares to install on the PCs, wherelse i go other than Adobe/Microsoft etc.Same goes to TSMC hehehe, Such companies are really not easy to find in Malaysia market.
I believe in business world if there is no growth,the value will be destructed over time. 逆水行舟，不进则退。 So growth is always no.1 priority then only how much to pay for it :)
Btw what is the difference of TSMC listed in Taiwan and listed in NYSE?
(i) Unlike in Malaysia, multi-baggers are much much more abundant in developed countries. This comes as a shock to most of us. Aren't the US and Europe matured economies ? Why are their companies growing so well ?
Because of two reasons : (a) These companies have moat. As such, they are able to register compounded growth over an extended period of time. (b) Despite from developed countries, these companies are world class and sell their products and services all over the world. There is no limit to their market size.
(ii) Fair enough, PE multiples of these companies are not low. They range from 20 times to 50 times. But this is the characteristics of strong companies. When you invest in good stocks, don't expect to buy cheap. You are supposed to pay a fair price for quality. Since they are growth companies, over the years their earning will catch up, making your original cost of investment looked cheap.
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I think icon8888 has to reexamine some of his investment premise. He has expressed all the above observations correctly. Then he chopped his own feet, when he opined, "but there are very few of these companies in Bursa."
If you cannot find or cannot love such companies in Bursa, you are also most likely to miss such companies in other stock markets too.
Since the 2000s, I have mentioned many times, there are only about 20 or so stocks in Bursa which you can hold long term because of their durable competitive advantages or economic moats. We have multi-baggers in Bursa too, just than icon8888's investing plans do not avail him to invest or own them, thus, missing these altogether.
(a) There are two ways you can invest in the stock market.
The first way is Value Investing. You buy stocks that are undervalued, wait for them to be re-rated within one to two years (sometime it takes shorter or longer than that), then you sell them and switch to other undervalued stocks, when the opportunity arise.
The second way is Growth Investing. You buy stocks that have moat. You hold on to them for ten to twenty years, or even longer. Due to earning growth, the stock price will rise conitnuously and deliver you few hundred to few thousands percent return.
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I do both of these too. However, the major portion of my portfolio are into winners in growth stocks (slow growers, stalwarts and fast growers). Turnarounds, cyclicals and asset plays are sometimes in my portfolio. For example: Hai-O when it turned around in early 2005, Guan Chong in the last cyclical upturn, KAF for its undervalued land asset in KLCC area, etc.
But for long term growth in value of your portfolio, stay with great companies that can continue to grow, even if slowly.
(b) I practise both Value Investing and Growth Investing.
For Value Investing, I stick to Bursa Malaysia.
For Growth Investing, I will park my money with great stocks in developed economies such as US, Europe, Japan, etc. Why not Malaysia ? Because based on my observations, very few Malaysian companies have moat. The chance of picking wrong stocks is much higher compared to those in developed countries. The last thing I want is to hold on to a stock for 10 years only to find out that I was wrong, and the stock stagnated and did not generate the return I aim for.
(c) For my foreign portfolio, I will not put my money in developing economies (Indonesia, Thailand, Hong Kong, etc). Companies in these economies are likely similar to Malaysia. It is likely that not many will have real moat, and very few will eventually become multi baggers. For Value Investing involving switching from one stock to another every one to two years (not due to lack of patience, but due to cyclicality), I would rather play at my homeground, Malaysia whereby I will have the advantage of familiarity.
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As for icon's above thinking, I have to agree with Leno's comments.
If you are not able to find great stocks in Bursa, you are also unlikely to love these stocks that are in other stock markets. Your thema of investing prevents you from liking them, thus, you are more likely to dislike them than to like them, given your reasoning.
Just look at calvin, he continues to come out with promotions of the most gruesome stocks. He is what he is and we should not be surprised by his liking of these stocks. He will never be able to appreciate the great stocks that I like.
Also, I must say icon's comments on the differences in our market and foreign markets are not rational. He should examine himself, his investing philosophy and method. After all, the greatest risk in investing is ONESELF.
FRIDAY, 1 AUGUST 2008 Investment Policies (Based on Benjamin Graham) Summary of Investment Policies
A. INVESTMENT FOR FIXED INCOME: US Savings Bonds (FDs or Amanah Sahams for Malaysians)
B. INVESTMENT FOR INCOME, MODERATE LONG-TERM APPRECIATION AND PROTECTION AGAINST INFLATION: (1) INVESTMENT FUNDS bought at reasonable price. (2) Diversified list of primary common stocks (BLUE CHIPS) bought at reasonable price.
C. INVESTMENT CHIEFLY FOR PROFIT: 4 approaches are open to both the small and the large investors: (1) Representative common stocks bought when the MARKET level is clearly LOW. (2) GROWTH STOCKS, when these can be obtained at reasonable prices in relation to actual accomplishment – GROWTH INVESTING. (3) Purchase of securities selling well BELOW INTRINSIC VALUE – VALUE INVESTING. (4) Purchase of WELL-SECURED PRIVILEGED SENIOR ISSUES (bonds and preferred shares). (5) SPECIAL SITUATIONS: Mergers, arbitrages, cash pay-outs.
D. SPECULATION: (1) Buying stock in new or virtually new ventures (IPOs) . (2) TRADING in the market. (3) Purchase of "GROWTH STOCKS" at GENEROUS PRICES.
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For DEFENSIVE INVESTORS: Portfolio A & B (Portfolio A: Cash, FDs, Bonds Portfolio B: Mutual funds, Blue chips)
For ENTERPRISING INVESTORS: Portfolio A & B & C (Portfolio C: Buy in Low Market, Buy Growth stocks at fair value, Buy value stocks i.e. bargains, High grade bonds and preferred shares, Arbitrages)
For SPECULATORS: Portfolio D (Should set aside a sum for this separate from their money in investing.)
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Types of Investors
Graham felt that individual investors fell into two camps : "defensive" investors and "aggressive" or "enterprising" investors.
These two groups are distinguished not by the amount of risk they are willing to take, but rather by the amount of "intelligent effort" they are "willing and able to bring to bear on the task."
Thus, for instance, he included in the defensive investor category professionals (his example--a doctor) unable to devote much time to the process and young investors (his example--a sharp young executive interested in finance) who are as-yet unfamiliar and inexperienced with investing.
Graham felt that the defensive investor should confine his holdings to the shares of important companies with a long record of profitable operations and that are in strong financial condition. By "important," he meant one of substantial size and with a leading position in the industry, ranking among the first quarter or first third in size within its industry group.
Aggressive investors, Graham felt, could expand their universe substantially, but purchases should be attractively priced as established by intelligent analysis. He also suggested that aggressive investors avoid new issues.
http://myinvestingnotes.blogspot.com/2008/08/investment-policies-based-on-benjamin.html This was the first article posted on my blog.
Your investment goals determine which stocks to include in your portfolio
The investment goals you have established are another important ingredient in determining which stocks to include in your portfolio.
If your investment goals are primarily long-term in nature, you should build a stock portfolio that is best able to meet these long-term goals. Choose the stocks of companies that have good long-term growth prospects.
If your main investment goal is to enjoy a stable source of current income, you should own stocks that pay liberal but secure dividends.
Keep in mind that constructing a portfolio of stocks that meets your investment goals does not lessen the need to maintain a diversified portfolio.
I have taken a look at Interactive Brokers's fee structure, I think their rates are indeed very attractive and competitive.
My main concern is: How to fund the trading account? Wire it to IB in Ringgit Malaysia then convert it to US Dollar on IB platform?
Since IB doesn't have an branch/bank account in Malaysia, the money has to be T/T to IB US or IB HK? How much did your bank charge you each time you performed T/T?
