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6.49   +0.04 (0.62%)  6.48 - 6.54  47,200
1,629 comment(s). Last comment by Rwkl at Nov 23, 2019 3:13 PM
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Abba84
118 posts

Posted by Abba84 > Jul 13, 2019 7:17 PM | Report Abuse

Stockrader..being too academic i say.
In reality..mny professionl anylsts do not put foot wrong..as they alwys hve strong confdenc n growth yers to come.
They like what they see. n jus buy n drive.


ruby20
101 posts

Posted by ruby20 > Jul 13, 2019 8:29 PM | Report Abuse

A company that should make Malaysians proud. Top 10 key takeaways from Yinson AGM.

https://www.facebook.com/1997932356957345/posts/2288864204530824?s=509787555&sfns=mo


ruby20
101 posts

Posted by ruby20 > Jul 13, 2019 8:29 PM | Report Abuse

"Yinson business is really in sweet spot. Their growth also can be exponential as they will keep growing if they keep winning contracts, and they will keep winning contracts if they can keep delivering good track records."

Good coverage on Yinson from its latest developments, to FPSO industry overview to its 2020 outlook.


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 14, 2019 12:00 AM | Report Abuse

TECHNICALLY PERPETUAL LOAN IS LOAN AND NOT EQUITY LOH...!!

PLS DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE ON YOUR FINANCIAL ASSESSMENT ON YINSON LOH..!

Wrong loh...!!

A loan is a loan mah...!!

Say u have perpetual loan of Rm 1,000M @ 7% pa interest
Short term loan of Rm 2,000M @ 5% pa interest

Like the case of London, suppose u cannot service or repay short term loan and interest of Rm 30m...that means u have defaulted on rm 30m short term loan loh...!!

Most of the short term lender will recalled the Rm 2,000m loan leand out to the company, but the perpetual long term lender of Rm 1,000m, can also recalled their loan too loh...!!

This is bcos perpetual lender has a safeguard in their loan agreement to recalled the loan when there an act of default loh...!!

Do not repeat the same mistake of high flying Spore High Flux LTD, on the issue of treating perpetual loan as equity loh....!!

PHILIP IS VERY SOCHAI & NAIVE LOH...!!


Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 13, 2019 2:11 PM | Report Abuse

Here is the difference between qualitative and quantitative analysis.

If you have a bank loan where you have to pay back the principal in 999 years, is this considered borrowings or equity?

When you have short term debt, long term debt and 999 years debt you need to call a spade a spade. Yinson is excellent in their financial raising capability.

>>>>>>>>>
I invite you to read first before commenting the SC document on the property bond raised in SGX and BURSA.

No such thing loh....all loans got a callable element or clause in the agreement whether short or long term or even perpetual loh...!!


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 14, 2019 10:49 AM | Report Abuse

Don be sochai, let face reality mah....!!

Ask yourself honestly Perpetual bond is a debt loan or not mah ?
Yes it is a long term loan and legally it is a debt.
A debt always ranked ahead of equity in the pecking order in terms of repayment loh...!!

Forget about accounting rules, it serve a commercial purpose, as it is trying to encourage hybrid financial products, not understand by simple layman like Philip loh...!!

In fact Yinson Perpetual Bond is a hybyrid junk bond loh...!!
Why leh ?? Yinson bond rate is 7% to 9% pa but your borrowing rates only 3.5% to 6.0% pa loh...!!
Why higher rates leh ?? Bcos people view it as risky loh....!!

So just becareful of Yinson, i see it is like Sapura & Armada 5 to 10 years ago, the share price has hyped up with full of optimism, don get trap loh..!!

Do not listen to conman fund manager & analyst loh, they just want to fatten u for a slaughter eventually loh...!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 14, 2019 6:03 AM | Report Abuse

Accounting rules say you are wrong. Understand the business first itself then look to the debt.

If you understand this better you will understand why foreign investors and major institutions have been buying yinson from 4.09 to 7.20 today.


VSOLAR Sailang Margin All In
2671 posts

Posted by VSOLAR Sailang Margin All In > Jul 15, 2019 7:30 AM | Report Abuse

It's okay lah raider, I used to think a heavily leveraged company is a bad company but a capable management which have the ability to utilize debt in a good way is a company worth investing. I bought in at 6.20 I think now is not too late for you to jump onboard this FPSO


Philip Greta
2150 posts

Posted by Philip Greta > Jul 15, 2019 7:51 AM | Report Abuse

I'm sure the office boy who drives a myvi is very capable. Please do hold your INSAS for as long as you like while yinson becomes a 8 BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY.

Good luck with your investment and your concert of debt, while others are maximizing their returns over a long long long long term debt. So long in fact that accounting rules treat it as equity.

But yeah, hope you make small money and live a happy life.



>>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 14, 2019 10:49 AM | Report Abuse

Don be sochai, let face reality mah....!!

Ask yourself honestly Perpetual bond is a debt loan or not mah ?
Yes it is a long term loan and legally it is a debt.
A debt always ranked ahead of equity in the pecking order in terms of repayment loh...!!

Forget about accounting rules, it serve a commercial purpose, as it is trying to encourage hybrid financial products, not understand by simple layman like Philip loh...!!


newbie8080
1288 posts

Posted by newbie8080 > Jul 15, 2019 1:50 PM | Report Abuse

Very impressive rally.
More to come.


Philip Greta
2150 posts

Posted by Philip Greta > Jul 15, 2019 1:59 PM | Report Abuse

Technically.... A loan that I do not have to pay in my lifetime or my children's children's lifetime is not considered a loan, in my lifetime of I do not need to pay back any principal amount of the loan, I consider it equity.

Why you keep fighting this fact?

Accounting rules already accept this as equity.

Banks and INSTITUTIONS consider this equity.

You are the only idiot who keep fighting this fact.

Never mind la let little kids win.

OK YOU WON, PERPETUAL BOND IS DEBT AND A LOAN. HAPPY? NOW WHAT? GOT MONEY TO EARN?

meanwhile my share price has increased from 4 billion to 7.6 billion.

Still want to fight?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

tockraider TECHNICALLY PERPETUAL LOAN IS LOAN AND NOT EQUITY LOH...!!


Philip Greta
2150 posts

Posted by Philip Greta > Jul 16, 2019 6:49 AM | Report Abuse

https://www.insage.com.my/ir/cmn/loadpdf.aspx?sCompanyCode=YINSON&sFileName=19191000032582


Philip Greta
2150 posts

Posted by Philip Greta > Jul 16, 2019 6:50 AM | Report Abuse

For a better understanding of the business fundamentals of YINSON.


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 16, 2019 10:39 AM | Report Abuse

LEARN THE LESSON FROM HYFLUX SPORE....IT IS ALREADY PROVEN, THOSE WHO MANIPULATE USING PERPETUAL BOND AS EQUITY EVENTUALLY SUFFER LOH..!!

DON REPEAT THE SAME OLD MISTAKE MAH....!!

WHEN HYFLUX IN THE HEYDAYS, THEY TALK BIG LIKE WHAT PHILIP DID ON YINSON LOH.....!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 15, 2019 1:59 PM | Report Abuse

Technically.... A loan that I do not have to pay in my lifetime or my children's children's lifetime is not considered a loan, in my lifetime of I do not need to pay back any principal amount of the loan, I consider it equity.

Why you keep fighting this fact?

Accounting rules already accept this as equity.

Banks and INSTITUTIONS consider this equity.

You are the only idiot who keep fighting this fact.

Never mind la let little kids win.

OK YOU WON, PERPETUAL BOND IS DEBT AND A LOAN. HAPPY? NOW WHAT? GOT MONEY TO EARN?

meanwhile my share price has increased from 4 billion to 7.6 billion.

Still want to fight?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

tockraider TECHNICALLY PERPETUAL LOAN IS LOAN AND NOT EQUITY LOH...!!


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 16, 2019 10:53 AM | Report Abuse

Armada a truly quality company and about same standard as Yinson loh ??

1. It achieved the latest same qtr profit as yinson.
2. It has slightly lesser gearing compare to yinson
3. It has more fpso than yinson
4. Armada revenue is twice of yinson.
5 Armada equity is twice of yinson.

MOST IMPORTANT INVESTMENT PREPOSITION : ARMADA is 7 times cheaper than yinson.


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 16, 2019 11:02 AM | Report Abuse

Good news for Armada shareholders loh....!!

If raider's finding on Yinson is wrong, then Armada should worth Mkt cap Rm 10.0b about Rm 1.70 per share...a big upside potential from current mkt cap Rm 1.26b loh..!!

If raider findings on Yinson are right..but then armada still hugely undervalue it should still worth Rm 3.0b or Rm 0.50 per share loh...!!
Still very good reasonable upside for armada.

Ask yourself yinson is how much overvalue compare to armada, but its balance sheet are still craps leh ??

When there of reckoning come for Yinson, u cry also no tears loh..!!

YINSON IS ACTUALLY HYFLUX IN THE MAKING LOH...!!

From the above u notice Armada is 2x bigger than yinson, thus Yinson Gearing is not much different from armada.

DON LISTEN TO SOHAI PHILIP & 3iii MAH...Armada mkt cap Rm 1.27b & yinson mktcap Rm 7.3b but Armada is actually 2x bigger than yinson mah..!!

Also Armada borrowing is 10.4b but is shareholder funds is Rm 3.4b thus gearing is 3.0x loh...!!

Yinson borrowing is Rm 6.0b with shareholder funds rm 1.8b thus gearing is 3.3x loh...!!

In fact Yinson Gearing is higher than armada loh..!! In fact Yinson is structure like Hyflux very dangerous loh..!!

Armada is conservative accounting policy writting down its assets whereas Yinson is aggressive jacking up its accounts recognition so that it can borrow more loh...!!

Do not fall for yinson trap loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 7, 2019 10:46 AM | Report Abuse X

Why u need to becareful of Yinson ??
This is bcos the gearing high & not much diffent from armada loh..!!

Yinson borrowing April 2019 as follows:
{In million Rm}
1. Perpetual Bond............1847.
2. Loan & borrowings.........3308.
3.Lease........................13.
4.Loan & Borrowing.............346.
5.Put option liability.........460.
6.Derivative...................61.
Total loan exposure............6039.

Total shareholder fund.........1791.

Total Assets...................8948.

Revenue(qtr)...................209.

Armada borrowings March 2019 as follows:

{In million Rm}
1.Perpetual Bond...............0.
2.Loan & borrowings..........6786.
3.Lease........................29.
4.Loan & Borrowing......... .3194.
5.Put option liability.........414.
6.Derivative...................0.
Total loan exposure...........10423.

Total shareholder fund.........3363.

Total Assets...................15540

Revemue(Qtr)...................491.

From the above u notice Armada is 2x bigger than yinson, thus Yinson Gearing is not much different from armada.


Philip Greta
2150 posts

Posted by Philip Greta > Jul 17, 2019 5:15 PM | Report Abuse

I realized that stockraider really doesn't know how to value stocks, that is probably why he values hengyuan at RM35 before it crashed so spectacularly.

The important figures are the same in real life just as in a balance sheet.

What matters is how much revenue and profits you generate versus how much loan interest and the principal amount you need to pay back (or reloan) to continue as an ongoing business.

It doesn't matter how much you owe, first you need to know when you need to pay back the principal amount, then you need to know how much you need to cover the interest payments every year.

The reason why armada is worth 1 billion and yinson 7 billion:

SHORT TERM DEBT. OR HOW MUCH THE BARBARIANS AT THE GATE WANT, AND HOW EASY IT IS TO GET A EXTENSION ON THE LOAN.

Armada had a reprieve when the loan was extended to october 2019, but... IT IS STILL SHORT TERM LOAN. IF THEY DO NOT PERFORM, THEY WILL EXPLODE.

The other main reason,

INTEREST LOAN COVERAGE, or how much is their revenue generation to service existing debt (the reverse of cash flow in, this is cash flow out).

If got gangsters everyday calling you chasing for money, it is very hard to concentrate on making money and doing proper business. On the other hand, if investors are clamouring to give you money that doesnt need to be returned, you can go quite a long time before needing to worry.

DO NOT COMPARE HYFLUX AND YINSON, HYFLUX HAD PROBLEMS WITH ENERGY GENERATION AND PRODUCTION COSTS (SAME LIKE KRAKEN) WHICH RUINED CASH FLOW AND MADE IT NEGATIVE.

YINSON STICKS TO SIMPLE THINGS THAT THEY ARE GOOD AT.

LIKE OIL FERRY AND BUS BUSINESS. VERY CONSISTENT CASH FLOW, VERY CLEAR RETURNS ON EQUITY.

too bad stockraider only sees the trees and miss the forest.

maybe he should sell his myvi and walk around instead? servicing debt can be very hard for an office boy.

if cannot pay for the car, dont gamble with stocks, my sad friend.


qqq3
13577 posts

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 17, 2019 5:33 PM | Report Abuse

other than management, all top 30 shareholders are Class A institution investors, long term investors who knows their stuffs.....................in fact only 2% free float for daily trading..............


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Jul 17, 2019 5:56 PM | Report Abuse

This sochai don understand how healthy company generate good value loh, in the case of yinson it has taken huge debts with gearing even exceeding level exceeding armada, u should worry loh...!!

Yinson latest profits is same as armada, but its mkt cap in 7x larger than armada, r u not concern it is highly overvalue, at a dangerous level leh ?

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 17, 2019 5:15 PM | Report Abuse

I realized that stockraider really doesn't know how to value stocks, that is probably why he values hengyuan at RM35 before it crashed so spectacularly.

The important figures are the same in real life just as in a balance sheet.

What matters is how much revenue and profits you generate versus how much loan interest and the principal amount you need to pay back (or reloan) to continue as an ongoing business.

It doesn't matter how much you owe, first you need to know when you need to pay back the principal amount, then you need to know how much you need to cover the interest payments every year.

The reason why armada is worth 1 billion and yinson 7 billion:

SHORT TERM DEBT. OR HOW MUCH THE BARBARIANS AT THE GATE WANT, AND HOW EASY IT IS TO GET A EXTENSION ON THE LOAN.

Armada had a reprieve when the loan was extended to october 2019, but... IT IS STILL SHORT TERM LOAN. IF THEY DO NOT PERFORM, THEY WILL EXPLODE.

The other main reason,

INTEREST LOAN COVERAGE, or how much is their revenue generation to service existing debt (the reverse of cash flow in, this is cash flow out).

If got gangsters everyday calling you chasing for money, it is very hard to concentrate on making money and doing proper business. On the other hand, if investors are clamouring to give you money that doesnt need to be returned, you can go quite a long time before needing to worry.

DO NOT COMPARE HYFLUX AND YINSON, HYFLUX HAD PROBLEMS WITH ENERGY GENERATION AND PRODUCTION COSTS (SAME LIKE KRAKEN) WHICH RUINED CASH FLOW AND MADE IT NEGATIVE.

YINSON STICKS TO SIMPLE THINGS THAT THEY ARE GOOD AT.

LIKE OIL FERRY AND BUS BUSINESS. VERY CONSISTENT CASH FLOW, VERY CLEAR RETURNS ON EQUITY.

too bad stockraider only sees the trees and miss the forest.

maybe he should sell his myvi and walk around instead? servicing debt can be very hard for an office boy.

if cannot pay for the car, dont gamble with stocks, my sad friend.


michaelwong
2269 posts

Posted by michaelwong > Jul 17, 2019 9:51 PM | Report Abuse

Buying stocks and comparing its fundermentals won't make you going to achieve your wonderful dreams just like what l have long been in this journey but end up resources stuck . The surge in yinson price and armanda is of no comparison as those who bought yinson for 4 ++ are laughing to the bank . The reality in stock markets does not necessarily based on fundermentals alone . Armanda , velesto and sapura energy sounds with lots of contracts but price of share continued to remain stagnant and not going to move forward steadily in a matter of time . An increase in just 1 cent seems like hell break loose and thousands of shares exchange hands . Hopefully my personal views to share might not irritate anyone but to be real , this is my biggest mistake in what l have personally discovered maybe l could be wrong sometimes . Investing is subjected to market forces that determines real profits rather than fundermentals alone . Don't screw me up and our funds of investments must put in good uses .


Philip Greta
2150 posts

Posted by Philip Greta > Jul 18, 2019 9:08 AM | Report Abuse

I have been holding yinson since 2012 and keeping until today. I know the business inside out. I know how much their revenues are growing, how much their interest payments are and exactly how much debt they have..

Remind me again how much armada you hold and when you bought it? You suddenly become expert after buying the stock these last few weeks?

Small kids trying to act as if professional investors but are actually driving myvi and making fun of other investors.

When you get a few more years of investing under your belt then you can b say other people so hai ok?

My yinson go from rm1.15 and buy more are rights issue until today is worth 7.15. you know nothing a be presume to know everything.

Malu la office despatch boy.


L2earn
300 posts

Posted by L2earn > Jul 18, 2019 9:24 AM | Report Abuse

jangan gaduh... yinson akan sakit hati. Pagi ini dia sudah sedih lah...


yoyo
176 posts

Posted by yoyo > Jul 18, 2019 12:05 PM | Report Abuse

everyone free to promote his preferred counter, no need step on others. By calling other bad name will not make you a better investor.


L2earn
300 posts

Posted by L2earn > Jul 21, 2019 9:20 AM | Report Abuse

Those who just looking at this counter, forget it first.


Robert Waters
169 posts

Posted by Robert Waters > Jul 25, 2019 10:47 PM | Report Abuse

Very happy with Yinson price moves.


Myeye
950 posts

Posted by Myeye > Jul 29, 2019 10:04 AM | Report Abuse

~.~


haihai
68 posts

Posted by haihai > Jul 30, 2019 5:37 AM | Report Abuse

Im waiting to buy at low after retrace..


klee
839 posts

Posted by klee > Aug 4, 2019 7:08 PM | Report Abuse

goodbye yinson,will see you again.


bizzybone
180 posts

Posted by bizzybone > Aug 4, 2019 7:45 PM | Report Abuse

1) You can have RM100 of debts. If you CAN'T service it, you're in trouble.

2) You can have RM1b of debts. If you CAN service it, then there's no issue. If your coverage ratios are strong, banks would probably ask you if you want more money.

It's not about how much debt one has. It's the ability to service debt that matters most.

It's a capital-intensive industry. Having huge amounts of debt on the BS is normal. Project-specific cashflows are typically ring-fenced to payoff corresponding debt i.e. the debt pretty much pays itself.


ValarCuniasia
13 posts

Posted by ValarCuniasia > Aug 5, 2019 7:20 PM | Report Abuse

Dying


thesteward
2703 posts

Posted by thesteward > Aug 7, 2019 3:47 PM | Report Abuse

Kekeke Tq for oppr to Reenter trading lots at 6.7 and 6.72 yesterday and for the small dividend for coffee .
Hope to see you at 8 before end of Sept as per my longkanc prediction earlier


ValarCuniasia
13 posts

Posted by ValarCuniasia > Aug 16, 2019 10:07 AM | Report Abuse

What happened to RM10? Kahkahkah


Myeye
950 posts

Posted by Myeye > Aug 26, 2019 3:20 PM | Report Abuse

~.~


Robert Waters
169 posts

Posted by Robert Waters > Aug 30, 2019 5:39 PM | Report Abuse

What happened?
Big jump in price +26 sens but ... no announcement or anything on internet or company site....

______________________________
Friday - 30 Aug 2019
Changes in Sub. S-hldr's Int (Section 138 of CA 2016) - EMPLOYEES PROVIDENT FUND BOARD
Changes in Sub. S-hldr's Int (Section 138 of CA 2016) - KUMPULAN WANG PERSARAAN (DIPERBADANKAN)
Thursday - 29 Aug 2019


calvintaneng
31297 posts

Posted by calvintaneng > Sep 5, 2019 8:00 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by calvintaneng > Sep 5, 2019 12:12 AM | Report Abuse X

Posted by (HK1997 again) Philip > Sep 5, 2019 12:06 AM | Report Abuse

Pchem collapsing? Don't make me laugh. 50 billion dollar company with 4.3 billion in revenue and 1.1 billion in profit AFTER TAX and a horde of cash behind it.

I am just enjoying collecting my 11 +18 cents dividend since February when I started buying at 8.15 collecting my 11 +18 cents dividend

SO?

COST OF PURCHASE Rm8.15

Less 29 sen dividend = Rm7.86

Price now Rm6.83

SO REAL LOST OF Rm1.03 PER SHARE

IS THIS PHILIP IN HIS RIGHT MIND?

YOU BETTER DON'T LEAD SORCHAI TO HOLLAND HOR!
05/09/2019 12:14 AM


Philip Greta
2150 posts

Posted by Philip Greta > Sep 5, 2019 9:43 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by (HK1997 again) Philip > Sep 4, 2019 9:15 PM | Report Abuse X

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/123029.jsp

Your track record.

Calvin tan eng Yee angry I am posting and meeting track of his portfolio.

Calvin you are free to take a look at my portfolio at any time.


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Sep 8, 2019 10:39 AM | Report Abuse

Whenever this Philip sohai open his foul mouth, u know he has bad intention Why leh ??

1. Armada gearing is about the same as YINSON mah.....how can u say armada highly leverage and yinson is not leh ??

2. In terms of profit...armada still have scope to growth further without borrowing more bcos it can put is idle assets to use whereas yinson need to borrow much more loh...!!

3. Armada has shown 2 qtr of strong turnaround profit and momentum is still going on strongly loh....!!

4. Armada has pare down borrowing of rm 1 billion within a year which is an indication of very strong cashflow loh....!!

5. Armada kraken problem which has been pulling down armada recently has been solved and we are looking at sunny weather and rainbow in the horizon mah....!!

6. MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT YINSON HAS BEEN TRADING AT HUGE PREMIUM AND ARMADA HAS BEEN TRADING AT ENORMOUS DISCOUNT MAH...!! THERE IS A VERY HIGH CHANCE THIS ARMADA CAN GIVE U A 5 TO 10 BAGGER RETURN LOH...!!

REMEMBER IF YINSON CAN DO IT, SO CAN ARMADA LOH...!!

Posted by (HK1997 again) Philip > Sep 7, 2019 7:27 AM | Report Abuse

If you look at history, one of the biggest reasons America went to war of independence from Britain is due to the backbreaker taxes and interests piled on by the bank of England. In the end the debt kept increasing and increasing until war because inevitable.

Bumi armada extension of debt repayment came under a very heavy cost, exchanging a reprieve of time to restructure its debts with a more onerous long term deal.

It's like that myvi driving kid who just started working and had his first credit card. He puts 11k on his card and soon realized all his hard work only serves to pay off the credit card debt and not his principal amount.

Bumi armada is struggling just to pay off the interests whole barely touching the principal amount.

Worse still, the toys and rolexes that he bought that he thought would be worth a lot of money if he resold them received a rude awakening when no one wants to buy those unutilised assets.

Things actually get worse when he sells the assets, his impairments and NTA goes straight down destroying value, and if he doesn't sell the assets he can't make payments.

How now brown cow?


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Sep 8, 2019 10:40 AM | Report Abuse

Remember a loan is a loan loh....!!

Perpetual loan: Is a loan u just service interest no need to pay back principal loan, but if u happen to default or cross default on your debt covenant your whole loan get recalled loh....!!

Longterm loan is that u need repay your loan based on the loan instalment over the term of the agreement mah...!!

Usually perpetual loan the interest rate is much higher than long term loan, bcos the lender deemed higher risk by the borrower, don believe compare yinson perpetual loan interest rate with its own term loan and armada term loan interest rate loh ??

So how could u say armada gearing is worse off than yinson leh ??

Yinson has not only perpetual loan but it has huge normal loan too, beside that it is borrowing another rm 2 billion going fwd, in a way yinson gearing will exceed armada very much when the drawdown will eventually happen loh....!!

Posted by (HK1997 again) Philip > Sep 7, 2019 4:03 PM | Report Abuse

This is not the first time stockraider ha been caught to his face trying to lie through his teeth.

His logic however is insane.

He thinks short term debt that was due in April and now extended to November 2019 to pay back full payment is the same as a perpetual loan that is due in 999 years.

His argument is if cannot pay the interest then all loans are the same. I laugh at his foolishness and his lack of understanding between bad debt and good debt.

But of course he cannot stand the fact that I am a long term investor of YINSON, while he is a small time ikan bilis driving a myvi and acting as if he is a biggest minority shareholder of INSAS.

But such is the actions of tin kosong who interprets financial reports in a special (retarded) way.
>>>>>>>>


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Sep 8, 2019 10:41 AM | Report Abuse

People already discount the risk of armada thats why it is rm 0.26 and not rm 2.60 like in the case of similiar valuation like yinson mah...!!

But do remember the downside risk of armada will be low but the upside of armada will be damn high loh....!!

It is a paradise now for armada, u can make alot of monies just dumb dumb buy hold cheap cheap strategy mah...!!

Don waste time with idss very risky loh....u r just gambling....just invest in armada when there is huge margin of safety n with strong earnings recovery loh....!!

Posted by ckca > Sep 7, 2019 4:52 PM | Report Abuse

Stockraider and his Yinson and Armada again. Has Yinson defaulted his loan repayment yet ? Armada has already "defaulted" its loan repayment,

PN1 was supposed to be placed on Armada face.. Armada was just saved last minute when they manage to beg the banks to DELAY the repayment. Remember it is DELAYED and not payment okay. PN1 will be coming again, all of you know how dangerous when a company is hit by PN1, seldom they will ever recover... when you have RM11 billion debt, you can forget about recovering if hit by PN1. Because when hit by PN1 nobody dares to deal with you, every single creditor will go after you, every debtor will try to delay payment to you because waiting for you to collapse. Maybe thats why they sell off perdana because they know nobody will lease from them.

If Yinson also go hit by something like Armada ( cant do bank repayment ), it will join Armada at the bottom also, so dont be so confident using your Yinson as a bait. Yinson has potential to join Armada club. If you like to compare Yinson and Armada ( same business ) why not also say both of them join the Perisai club.

These people are just trying to lure newbies to buy to push up the share price so that they can sell and run. Otherwise they will not be spending so much time luring people into it. Want to profit from newbies just admit it lah. IDSS already admit and made it very clear, IDSS want share price to fall. IDSS can profit from it because the company is in deep trouble, share price will surely drop. If company is doing well, nobody will dare to play IDSS with it.

If you are afraid IDSS is the cause of share price drop, then better sell and buy back cheaper. But I think that is not your worry, your worry is like everyone else, Armada has RM11.5 billion debt and are unable to pay. Selling one FPSO is not enough, selling ALL FPSO is also not enough. How they get into debt is not IDSS fault, its their own fault. You want your money ( investment ) to be handled by people who get themselves stuck in the forever grownig RM11500 million debt ?


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Sep 8, 2019 10:43 AM | Report Abuse

Most importantly do not missed this 10 baggers opportunity, very hard to find mah.....!!

Posted by stockraider > Sep 8, 2019 10:24 AM | Report Abuse X

Very simple answer the fact is armada is better & has beaten yinson in terms of earnings in the past consecutive latest qtr mah...!!

ARMADA IS CURRENTLY MORE PROFITABLE COMPARE WITH YINSON MAH....!!

TO TELL U THE PROSPECT OF ARMADA COMPARE WITH YINSON, U SEE THE FOLLOWING LOH...!!

30-6-2019

ARMADA PAT RM 78.2M
YINSON PAT RM 49.9M

31-3-2019

ARMADA PAT RM 62.2M
YINSON PAT RM 60.7M

U will notice that Armada profit has exceeded yinson for the past 2 latest qtr loh.....!! Armada will be a big fish again soon mah..!

NOW DID ARMADA DEFAULT ? THE ANSWER IS NO LOH...!!
ARMADA HAS NEVER BEEN PN 17 MAH....!!
YES ARMADA DID THREATEN to DEFAULT, IF THE BANKS INSIST ON RECALLING THEIR LOANS LOH..!! IT JUST A NEGOTIATION TACTICS MAH....SINCE AT THAT TIME ARMADA OWE MORE THAN RM 13 BILLIONS MAH, AND ARMADA HAS NOT MISSED OUT IN ANY LOAN INSTALMENT PAYMENT JUST LIKE WHAT YINSON HAS BEEN PAYING ITS INSTALMENT CONTRACTUALLY LOH...!!

Armada did that to bring the banks to their financial senses loh...if they simply recalled and do not refinance their loan of few billions there are dire consequence for both the banks and armada to suffer loh..!!

Furthermore the huge impairment losses has no bearing on the operating cashflow of armada mah, in fact the operating cashflow is even better than yinson mah...!!

The fact is all has end well...Armada did pay down at least Rm 3 billion of loans eventually, the bank agree to extend and eventually to refinance their loans and lately kraken issue has been positively solve.

That means u are looking armada should value close to Yinson matrix that is Rm 2.60 and not Rm 0.26 loh...!! Armada will shine again & great profit opportunity of 10x bagger mah...!!

Now if u look at yinson, if the same happen,banks recalled a few billion loans, the samething will happen like armada too....but yinson risk bankrupt bcos financial muscle less strong n armada has proven it can survive loh...!!

Posted by (HK1997 again) Philip > Sep 8, 2019 7:07 AM | Report Abuse

Very simple answer to why yinson is valued so much higher than armada.

1. Has yinson defaulted on their perpetual loan? Is armada in default of its loan? Is it able to pay back the loan by November or MUST negotiate? When a company is forced to do things, that is when banks know they have them by the balls and can squeeze out any contractual agreement.

2. Why did armada default? Could it be the interest repayments are too high? Could it be the jobs they win are not enough to even pay back the interest repayments?

3. For armada to be a big fish soon they need to settle the 11.5 billion debt into manageable profitable business. Is this even doable with the current market environment?

4. You want to think that armada is yinson up to you, buy don't go around saying that yinson is worse than armada. It just make you look cheap and bad.

How about your sapura rm3 in 3 years 3 months? No more singing the same song?

How about INSAS rm0.9 by August 31? Failed attempt also? Now push to rm1 in February? Or become July?


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Sep 15, 2019 5:42 PM | Report Abuse

WHY U REALLY NEED TO CHASE ARMADA WHO HAS RISEN ABOVE RM 0.30 VERY FAST LOH....!!

JUST IMAGINE IF U HAVE BOUGHT INTO ARMADA AT RM 0.80 TO RM 1.00 WHEN THE SHARE PRICE HAD BEEN CRASHING CRASHING TO RM 0.16 FOR A LONGTIME.!!

U FEEL VERY SORRY FOR YOUR FAMILY ESPECIALLY THE FUND FOR CHILDREN FUTURE EDUCATION HAD BEEN SUBSTANTIALLY DEPLETED BCOS U LOH...!!

U WAITED AND WATCHED THE SHARE MKT ESPECIALLY ARMADA DON KNOW WHAT TO DO LOH.....!! BCOS U NO LONGER TO AFFORD THE PAIN OF FURTHER LOSING MAH..!!

THEN SUDDENLY RAINBOW APPEAR...ARMADA SHOOT UP FROM RM 0.22 TO ABOVE RM 0.305 ARE U GOING TO WATCH ANY FURTHER LEH ??

NO LOH...!! U SHOULD PUT YOUR MONIES TO WORK right a way & THIS IS WHY LOH ??

Armada have the following good news & catalyst and its share price will keep shooting upwards on sustain basis loh...!!

1. Armada equity and contract on hand much bigger than yinson.

2. Armada latest to qtr earnings has exceeded yinson. With its last qtr earnings exceeded yinson profit 2x.

3. Armada borrowing has been reduced by 1 billion & coming down further.

4. The new ceo has initiated alot of wealth creation initiative.

5. Most importantly armada share price already breakout from rm 0.30 resistance and expected the momentum to carry it higher loh...!!

6. EPF has been regularly buying armada recently with large quantities.

Yes u will see better days for Armada, just hang tight loh...!!


ARMADA IS A POTENTIAL 8 BAGGERS AT THE PRICE OF RM 0.305 LOH...!!


Posted by stockraider > Sep 15, 2019 11:45 AM | Report Abuse X

1.Saudi issue add Extra boost for armada....which already riding on string of extremelly bullish news mah...!!

2. technically the share price very bullish as it just broke the resistance rm 0.30 loh...!!


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Sep 15, 2019 6:01 PM | Report Abuse

A Relook into Bumi Armada from Profitability, Volume Spread Analysis and what’s Insiders Report are telling they are doing now ?
Author: TradeVSA | Publish date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 2:45 PM

Bumi Armada Bhd (5210.KL) listed in the Bursa Malaysia.

Background of Bumi Armada
Bumi Armada Bhd is an international offshore services provider to the oil and gas industry in Malaysia and other countries in Asia. Founded in 1995 with two main business units, Bumi Armada Navigation (BAN) and Haven, with a predominantly domestic focus. Bumi Armada was listed on the Main Board of the Kuala Lumpur Stock Exchange on June 1997 or Bursa Malaysia but delisted on April 2003. Bumi Armada was once again listed on Bursa Malaysia on July 2011, in an IPO which was the largest in the country for that year.

Currently, Bumi Armada is a Malaysia based fully integrated offshore solutions provider that operates across the globe operating via two business units:

Floating Production and Operation (FPO) of oil and gas solutions and
Offshore Marine Services (OMS) which comprises of Offshore Support Vessel (OSV) and Subsea Construction (SC) services.

Bumi Armada's firm order book stood at RM20.2 b (2017: RM22.25 b) by the end of December 2019.

The Bumi Armada company listed in Bursa Malaysia, its revenue fell by 18.1% yoy to RM1027.2 m in 1H19, operating profit before impairments rose 20.9% yoy to RM345.7 m. The fell in revenue was mainly attributed to the Offshore Marine Services (OMS) segment (-54.5% yoy to RM158.1 m) in December 2018. OSV vessel utilisation has improved to 51% in 2Q19 from 39% in 1Q19, due to higher demand in Malaysia.

Recent Insider Report for Bumi Armada (Bursa Malaysia)
In this Insider Report, Karisma S.B increased position a lot to almost 80% or 5.4% outstanding. Reader should google out who’s Karisma Mesra S.B as this recent purchase was in 14 Aug 2019 and EPF is also increasing its position. Good things usually come when we see big institution like EPF’s buying in the insider report.

Known Insiders in Insider Report

8.56 %, Amanah Saham Bumiputera

7.10 %, Employees Provident Fund Board

34.89 %, Objektif Bersatu Sdn Bhd

+Note: + Ananda Krishnan & family have interest in this.

Profitability Analysis of Bumi Armada
We see a large drop in profitability for 2018 and latest number suggested improvement in losing money. The bottom may be here already. The worst has passed hopefully in the insider report.

Weekly & Daily Chart VSA (Volume Spread Analysis) Review
Based on weekly TradeVSA chart, we do spot a clear change of trend with high volume. High volume started to appear on end of November 2018. This shown activities by Smart Money as they started to do accumulation after the mark-down stage.

Another signal appeared in the TradeVSA chart at the end of April 2019 with pentagon bullish high volume. Again, this shown Smart Money are ready and trying to mark-up by testing the resistance. The latest weekly bar successful closed above all the Up-Thrust bar at resistance. Price likely to move and test the previous support around RM0.66. Take note if any Up-Thrust or TradeVSA Red Pentagon appear as price will have pullback soon.

Daily TradeVSA chart shows the similar trading setup with long period of accumulation after mark-down stage. In the daily chart, we do notice the shakeout on the weak hand holders towards the end of the mark-down stage. With the recent TradeVSA Pentagon buy* signal and Line Change, the price managed to break higher than resistance and previous false breakout area.

*Pentagon Guider System has Buy or Sell Indicator indicated by Green Pentagon Icon and Red Pentagon Guider Icon in the field of Volume Spread Analysis. However, we advised reader that not all pentagons are buy or sell taken literally 100% of the time in Volume Spread Analysis method.


Robert Waters
169 posts

Posted by Robert Waters > Sep 16, 2019 7:39 PM | Report Abuse

Seems like many here made a mistake by selling few days too early.
But cannot blame them for not anticipating crude price increase.
:-)
This is a very nice gift for all us long in this stock.

Long term effect on us as profit margins of clients improve.


paktua73
8766 posts

Posted by paktua73 > Sep 17, 2019 10:52 PM | Report Abuse

kaboom 1b blow..
red wave coming..

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/yinsons-us1b-vietnam-charter-contract-terminated-amid-chinavietnam-dispute..


tut tut
waiting red wave


pang72
30845 posts

Posted by pang72 > Sep 17, 2019 10:55 PM | Report Abuse

Wow...


pang72
30845 posts

Posted by pang72 > Sep 17, 2019 10:55 PM | Report Abuse

Not a good news!!


stockraider
13305 posts

Posted by stockraider > Sep 18, 2019 11:20 AM | Report Abuse

REMEMBER TERMINATE BY 'FORCE MAJEURE EVENT'.....VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY PARTY TO ASSERT ITS RIGHT LOH...!!

IT WILL MEAN EACH PARTY STATUS QUO...LIKE IF YINSON HAS COLLECTED...THEIR DEPOSITS....THEY CAN JUST KEEP IT ON THE OTHER HAND IF YINSON HAS INCURRED ON SUBSTANTIAL COST ON FPSO, VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO CLAIM LOH..!!

IN COMPARISON THE POSITION OF YINSON IS WORSE THAN THE CLAIRE IN ARMADA CASE, AT LEAST ARMADA HAS CLEAR CUT LEGAL RECOURSE IN CLAIRE CASE MAH..!!

KUALA LUMPUR (Sept 17): Yinson Holdings Bhd’s 49%-owned joint venture in Vietnam for a charter contract worth US$1 billion over a 15-year period has been terminated due to a “prolonged force majeure event”, which is widely understood to be the overlapping claims in South China Sea between Vietnam and China.

In a filing with Bursa Malaysia, Yinson said the joint venture, PTSC Ca Rong Do Ltd, will assert its rights under all relevant contracts and in laws, for any advances, claims, liabilities, losses or damages against or suffered by it in any way concerning the matter.

Yinson owns 49% of PTSC Ca Rong through its indirect wholly-owned subsidiary Yinson Clover Ltd, while the remaining 51% stake is held by Vietnam’s state-owned PetroVietnam Technical Services Corp (PTSC).

“The effective date of the termination will be determined upon discussions between Talisman Vietnam 07/03 BV (TLV) and PTSC,” it said. TLV is wholly owned by Madrid-listed global integrated oil company Repsol SA.

The contract was meant for the supply of a floating production, storage and offloading (FPSO) facility for the Ca Rong Do Field Development located in Block 07/03 in the Eastern Sea Offshore Vietnam (CRD Field).

In March last year, Yinson announced that TLV has been directed not to carry out the scheduled work programme for the CRD Field, citing “force majeure event” as reason.

Prior to that, BBC News reported that the order to stop the oil project at CRD Field, for which Repsol and partners invested up to US$200 million, came in the wake of pressure from China.

In a note to investors at that time, AmInvestment Bank said as a service provider, Yinson will be entitled to claim full compensation for the costs incurred for the FPSO, which involve the acquisition of OSX-1 (production and storage vessel) from a distressed Brazilian operator.

“Repsol holds a 51.8% operating stake in the Ca Rong Do project, which has estimated reserves of 45.3 million barrels of oil and 172 billion cubic feet of gas and 2.3 million barrels of condensate. Its partners are Mubadala Petroleum with a 21.3% stake, PetroVietnam (14.3%) and PetroVietnam Exploration & Production (12.8%).

“Even after the termination, we understand that Yinson could still own the vessel, which would have been fully paid by Repsol and can be redeployed to new opportunities as five new charters are up for tender in Brazil’s Santos pre-salt basin, amid proposals to relax local content requirements,” the research firm said.

Yinson’s share price closed unchanged at RM6.72 today, giving the group a market capitalisation of RM7.26 billion.


RJ87
2383 posts

Posted by RJ87 > Sep 21, 2019 1:08 AM | Report Abuse

If you bet against research house and analyst. Out of 10 times, U will win 7.

Hasn’t anyone learn anything from subprime? The bonds the banks and the research house. Betting against housing bond is foolish. At the end, The few who bet against the house walked away richer at the expense of others misery.

I’ll be interested to see report on March 2020. And see what the house writes this time.


shpg22
2281 posts

Posted by shpg22 > Sep 25, 2019 7:12 PM | Report Abuse

Perfect storm !! Those analyst are nothing more than some fresh graduate researcher. Bullshit pandai only. Target price not reliable at all.


qqq3
13577 posts

Posted by qqq3 > Sep 25, 2019 7:18 PM | Report Abuse

I have no problem with that statement but shareholders of Yinson are not just fresh graduates.


Geco
238 posts

Posted by Geco > Sep 25, 2019 8:14 PM | Report Abuse

Yinson profit drop 44%. Will knm and armada follow the downfall tomorrow. We shall see.


birkincollector
2223 posts

Posted by birkincollector > Sep 25, 2019 9:41 PM | Report Abuse

yinson PE too high...

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