KLSE: ICAP (5108)       ICAPITAL.BIZ BERHAD MAIN : Closed&Fund
Last Price Today's Change   Day's Range   Trading Volume
2.38   0.00 (0.00%)  0.00 - 0.00  0
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Market Cap: 332 Million
NOSH: 140 Million
Avg Volume (4 weeks):21,995
4 Weeks Range:2.38 - 2.44
4 Weeks Price Volatility (%):
52 Weeks Range:2.30 - 2.60
52 Weeks Price Volatility (%):
Average Price Target:-

Financial Highlight

Latest Quarter | Ann. Date 31-Aug-2019 [#1]  |  21-Sep-2019
Next QR | Est. Ann. Date: 30-Nov-2019  |  30-Jan-2020
T4Q P/E | EY: 77.87  |  1.28%
T4Q DY | Payout %: 0.00%  |  - %
T4Q NAPS | P/NAPS: 3.19  |  0.75
T4Q NP Margin | ROE: 28.78%  |  0.95%


Date Subject
26-Oct-2019 iCapital.Biz Berhad price chart since listing - investbullbear
21-Oct-2019 Mplus Market Pulse - 21 Oct 2019
14-Oct-2019 ICAP管理层新挑战/万年船
16-Sep-2019 资本投资“树大招风”/万年船
23-Apr-2019 陈鼎武:发展潜能大‧企业应抢占非洲先机

Business Background

icapital biz Bhd is a Malaysian closed-end fund. The primary investment objective is a long-term capital appreciation of its investments. The company mainly invests in undervalued companies which are listed on the Main Market of Bursa Malaysia Securities Berhad and the ACE Market of Bursa Securities. It also invests in cash deposits. The revenue generated by the company includes interest income, dividend income, and other income.
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  5 people like this.
stockraider 3iii talk like sohai loh....the answer is all written on the wall mah.!

For latest past 5 yrs Icap only generate 1% pa compound return for the past 5 yrs....What sohai long term 3iii is talking about leh ??

Investors need to see & smell the rats in TTB for past 5 yrs, thus for all greater good put a stop to it loh...!!

Come & vote for liquidation and at least get a 30% gain on liquidation loh...!!

Posted by 3iii > Nov 22, 2019 8:03 PM | Report Abuse

Posted by ahbah > Nov 22, 2019 5:06 PM | Report Abuse

YES u cannot afford to make a mistake of not liquidating icap for a handsome 30% profit in 2020 votes, while u still can mah....!!

Also, it got ultra high margin of safety !

Still no got it ?

Depends on your time horizon.

If you are short term and wish to make a big profit over the shortest time, yes, you should support Laxey and gang.

If you are long term greed and believe in ttb and gang that they can still deliver long term good performance, your perspective will be different.

Neither are wrong. Both are right.

Look how diplomatic I am, unlike my dishonest friend, the raider.
22/11/2019 8:41 PM
jeydan89 Again, ahbah claimed to be novice but can very cleverly twist and turn the facts to suit his motives....

Very simple logic:

share buyback,
max 10% of total shares issued, assuming @ RM2.45, NAV RM450mlm = RM34.3mln
dividend payout, say 10 sen per share or RM14mln

Total cash outflow from share buyback & dividend payout = RMRM48.3mln or approx. 11% of NAV

Fees paid to fund manager and investment adviser = 1.5% p,a, of NAV

Once share buyback and dividend are paid, investors will expect them to continue, the positive impact on the share price would diminish over time. BUT, when these "goodies" are removed, it may cause the share price to drop drastically.


Those who have been pushing hard to wind-up icap in the near future may get quick gain and move somewhere else BUT those who are truly retail, main street share owners have to find another fund manger with equivalent track record or better to invest their money. Sadly, until now, like JohnDough said, still no one can come up with a fund that has delivered 9% CAGR since 2005 safely and transparently.
22/11/2019 9:13 PM
stockraider Very simple logic loh....if the fund manager are confident about its performance above 10% to 15% pa, what is the problem of doing a buyback of 10% and dividend of 10 sen leh ??

The problem is TTB only expect to make another 1% to 3% return pa going fwd loh...!! For the past 5 yrs he is making this kind of return pa loh..!!

Thus it is much beneficial for investor to bungkus icap and make a 30% one time gain mah....!!

Very simple logic:

share buyback,
max 10% of total shares issued, assuming @ RM2.45, NAV RM450mlm = RM34.3mln
dividend payout, say 10 sen per share or RM14mln

Total cash outflow from share buyback & dividend payout = RMRM48.3mln or approx. 11% of NAV

Fees paid to fund manager and investment adviser = 1.5% p,a, of NAV

Once share buyback and dividend are paid, investors will expect them to continue, the positive impact on the share price would diminish over time. BUT, when these "goodies" are removed, it may cause the share price to drop drastically.


Those who have been pushing hard to wind-up icap in the near future may get quick gain and move somewhere else BUT those who are truly retail, main street share owners have to find another fund manger with equivalent track record or better to invest their money. Sadly, until now, like JohnDough said, still no one can come up with a fund that has delivered 9% CAGR since 2005 safely and transparently.
22/11/2019 9:22 PM
cheoky jeydan89 are you ttb or employee of icap?

suggest you go https://www.dynaquest.com.my/

sign up and read Dr Neoh articles. It tells you about current malaysia situation and find ways to share with how to improve investment results. He don't gives singular value investing to readers.

I read wannabe Warren Buffett of Malaysia and Dr Neoh.
Perhaps you should too.

Got competition got improvement.
Don't confine to philosophy only and buffett here buffett there.
it closed your mind.
once your mind closed, so do your investment performance.

like icap performance la. safe as FD, but without FD interest to accrued to holder.
22/11/2019 11:13 PM
cheoky my advise to existing holder. Be smart, artibrage icap, wind up get instant profit realized 9% annualized from icap.

The allure of management fee, icap will definitely reintroduce new icap v.2. Ask youself, definately one. Human nature ma.... that time if you still really love icap FM skill, you can reinvest back in in icap v.2.

alternative history-----keep holding icap. being preached that you got that unrealized 9% annualized profit in icap.
if fund manager no good enough to face a new investing situation moving forward, if la, you are risk of losing that unrealized 9% with time. in 2024, you might be looking at icap stock ticker at RM1.70/share.

most important is you got freedom of choice. maximize it wisely. you are investor ma. we invest for freedom of choice. that is what we want right?
22/11/2019 11:21 PM
ahbah "JohnDough said, still no one can come up with a fund that has delivered 9% CAGR since 2005 safely and transparently.

JohnDough is correct - Icap delivered 9% CAGR.

But only the gaji of ttb n co got the 9% CAGR

The Icap share div. no got the 9% CAGR.

or / n

The Icap share price no got the 9% CAGR.
23/11/2019 12:41 PM
ahbah Can share buy back using cash Rm2.42 to buy NAV Rm3.20 shrink the NAV

of Icap ?

ahbah is just a novice investor onli n no got go school to learn about

stock investment.
23/11/2019 12:49 PM
cheoky excerpt from the interview of Dr Neoh Soon Kean with The Edge dated May 29 2017. (cant believe I still keep it)

1. What is your ulterior motive then?
Dynaquest has been a very successful investor in its own right. In fact, Dynaquest has achieved a compound average annual return of 15.5% over the last 37 years. We had a very good track record because we work from a fantastic database, whose data is at present sold only to certain investors at a very high price. Three years ago, we decided to put our database onto the Cloud, and this project will be completed in the third quarter of this year. The good news is that the database will be made available in real time to the public at a much lower price.

2. Most fund managers want to meet the management before they invest in a company. but why do you insist that Dynaquest be strictly data-driven.
I think, to a certain extent, I can judge a person by his action and his demeanour. If a company has been telling you nice stories every year, but its result have never been good (sound familiar???), what is the point of interviewing the company? But if a company tends to be conservative and keeps saying that next year will be challenging, and yet its performance is reasonably good, again, there is no point interviewing it. because its action speak louder than its words. (pause a while, said 15% for 37 years VS 9% since inspection........ pause, pause and think)

3. The likes of Dr Tan Chong Koay, Cheah Cheng Hye, Fong Siling and Koon Yew Yin are prominent investors (no mentioned your FM le, wonder why.....) who made a name for themselves in the investment fraternity. Would you regards yourself as an investment guru?
No, no, no.... Sir Isaac Newton, one of the greatest scientists of all time, said, 'If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' I would never dare to compare myself with somebody like Warren Buffett. My record is nothing compared to his. (Pause...invert it, somebody seems doing otherwise here, claiming he is better than....) Again, if I can see better, it is by standing on the shoulders of thinkers like Benjamin Graham, Sir John Templeton and Peter Lynch. These are the real gurus, who are far, far superior to me, (pause again....somebody seems otherwise here....) and gave me a lot of wisdom. Everything I say has been said by at least one of them before.

Somebody sue The Edge recently right? Wonder why again. Conspiracy theory? or not worth a mentiond because of weak investment performance???... banyak questions here...

Go Figure...I like this word.
23/11/2019 1:03 PM
ahbah "JohnDough said, still no one can come up with a fund that has delivered 9% CAGR since 2005 safely and transparently.

Mr. John, Cheoky got answered your above question ?
23/11/2019 1:49 PM
JohnDough Lol, seems like it’s been another salty week for you all.

If I go to www.icapital.my, I can see everything I need to know as an investor – I can see the performance, I can see the benchmark, I can see what has transpired in the past.

In fact, when I go through ICAP’s annual reports, I can track every single stock that ICAP has ever bought, how much each stock gained and even the few that made losses.

I cannot find any of this anywhere else, at any fund, even the one cheoky is talking about (actually I can't find much information on this recommendation?)

And when you think about it this way, no one in Malaysia is able to provide this. Is this simple enough for you?

Again, I have said – no fund – 9% performance, safe, transparent and so accessible. It is unmatched, and none of you, despite so many repeatable posts, have been able to prove me wrong.

Lets look at from another angle. You say ICAP is a poor product. There's probably over 100 registered funds in Malaysia. The majority not only have poor transparency (zero is as transparent as ICAP), they are also performing very poorly and most charge stupid fees. This is why you all can’t hardly find any – it has been months since I started this challenge.

So are you suggesting that all funds in Malaysia should be gotten rid of? Another factor to consider is, if you can do better, you wouldn’t be posting here very often and would be much busier (…. and have a life)

I have said it before and I will say it again. Each investor has the prerogative to invest with whoever they want, can even DIY – up to you. But what I, and many investors that invest with TTB for many years want is very simple – someone we trust, can perform, safe and transparent. ICAP ticks all the boxes. This is why we stick with him.

And that is also why, every single year, despite salty people like yourselves talking nonsense but trying to sound smart, shareholders vote against London. And you will see, in 2020, it will repeat. When that happens, you will still probably be in this forum, repeating the same thing.

It kinds of remind me of the flat-earthers – they just can’t seem to accept reality. Quite sad really.

And stockraider, seem to be repeating about stock buyback. As I have said, if it were to work, why is it that London bought +20% and discount still there? Since we are repeating like parrots, I will repeat also – why is it that the discount persist since London bought in 2011? Also, how about you respond to me pointing out how you completely failed in both counting (“2.5% fee”) and comprehending (what Berkshire Hathaway actually is)? For ease of reference, I am referring to your post on 12th of November and my post on 15th of November.

Think more, talk less. It’s good for your health. The level of debate here is *yawn* so once a week is enough I think. Come up with something better and make it worth my time.
24/11/2019 8:02 PM
ahbah Onli the gaji of ttb n co n NAV of Icap got the 9% performance.

The ICap div of ICap no got the 9% performance !

or / n

ICap share price also no got the 9% performance !

Verdict : Onli ttb n co got the 9% performance but ICap shareholders no

got the 9% performance.
24/11/2019 9:58 PM
cheoky oh accessible, my chinac25 or PAMC25 is equally accessible to icap. And plus with less discounted to NTA.

Johnny Johnny go to papa.
24/11/2019 10:35 PM
paperplane Maybe i shld also start closeend fund, and get myself a ferrari or lambo
24/11/2019 10:36 PM
cheoky Again, I have said – no fund – 9% performance, safe, transparent and so accessible. It is unmatched, and none of you, despite so many repeatable posts, have been able to prove me wrong.
---oh Johnny Johnny yes papa, eating sugar not papa, telling lie? no papa... open your mouth oh haha...

Dont try portray transparency and safe are the exclusive characteristics in icap, which do not existing in other funds. These characteristics are prerequisite in all funds. They are not exclusive and exist in Icap only, Johnny Johnny ar.. otherwise the FM is in jail already lo.

unrelated forumers here comment or in your opinion condemn icap. It is because of its poor peformance under same time and condition. You want compare? I given the examples already ma. Pangolin, Acera and latest the Dynaquest. What is Icap risk-adjusted return in comparison. In over the counter market, it is even poorer than my China C25 index fund. HELLO? cant see?

It is good for your health to shut up instead to pusing multiple forumers comments here.

oh Johnny Johnny, open your mouth oh haha!
24/11/2019 10:37 PM
cheoky The one who takes investor/potential investor's money. he should accept and subjected to investor judgement and criticism. dont be like ajib gor living in denial until one day woke up and realize the throne is lost.
If the one is really good, people will sing your song during AGM. just like in Public bank AGM.

just like we forumers earn money from bursa, we are subjected to market risk. lose money means lose money. we dont argue why market is wrong.

we accept and move on.

If such basic you cant take, I come replace you better.
24/11/2019 10:46 PM
ahbah "Posted by paperplane > Nov 24, 2019 10:36 PM | Report Abuse

Maybe i shld also start closeend fund, and get myself a ferrari or lambo"

U also want the shareholders' fd interest to pay for your Ferrari ?
25/11/2019 12:41 PM
ahbah "oh Johnny Johnny, open your mouth oh haha! "

Johni is boasting his 9% CAGR gaji performance (partly made from

shareholders' fd interest) which all shareholders no got lah !

Johni sure k.o. the shareholders on this score n make the

shareholders stupit shareholders !
25/11/2019 12:54 PM
ahhuat56 ICAP is listed according to the listing requirement of Bursa Malaysia and is approved by the Securities Commission of Malaysia. The Fund Manager is licensed by SC. The entire operations of ICAP is according to the law of Malaysia to protect the investors. When investors invest in ICAP shares, they should have read the prospectus and know and risk and reward of investing. If investors are not happy with the performance of the stocks that invested in, they should sell the shares and move on. It is really unethical to spread false information and use vulgar language to attack ICAP and the fund manager when they did not do anything wrong. I am sure wise and reasonable investors would know how to different who is right and who is wrong. I appeal to those first timer who come into this forum to be careful. Don't waste your time reading the low quality comments of people who constantly use dirty language and engage in internet bullying.

If you want to know about ICAP and the fund manager, go to their official websites. They are properly regulated by the government. In contrast, there are too many liars in this forum.
25/11/2019 9:06 PM
cheoky In Bursa, there is Parkson and there is Topglove.

In Fund availability, there is Icap and there is Dynaquest/Areca/Pangolin.

In life, after making hard earned money, there is value destroying vehicle and there is value adding vehicle.

But we only have limited time. make the best selection.

low reply to low quality comments = low quality of both subjects.
25/11/2019 10:54 PM
ahbah Here also got mani crabs who advise others to walk straight !

Please check it out. Thanks.
26/11/2019 11:45 AM
jeydan89 @ ahbah : Here also got mani crabs who advise others to walk straight !

Totally agreed, ahbah please look at the mirror, you will find one there.
27/11/2019 6:28 PM
ahbah jeydan89, we are BOTH crabs ! Praise to U n me !
27/11/2019 8:46 PM
enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ICAP's acquired stocks this year performed very well
27/11/2019 9:46 PM
ahbah Which acquired stocks, please ? Thanks first.
28/11/2019 8:52 AM
ahbah I agree the fund manager did not do anything wrong. He is smart n

brilliant n work hard to get his 9% performance in his gaji !

He will be super brilliant n fair if he work hard to ensure all

shareholders also got the same 9% performance for their investment in

ICap by rolling down ICap curtain.
28/11/2019 9:19 AM
enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ @ahbah,
ICAP's Annual Report
28/11/2019 11:45 PM
jeydan89 ahbah, I took facts not crabs, unlike u.
30/11/2019 4:26 PM
ahbah Posted by jeydan89 > Nov 30, 2019 4:26 PM | Report Abuse

ahbah, I took facts not crabs, unlike u.

We are both crabs here n U are the mother crab here. Praise to U !
30/11/2019 8:54 PM
ahbah KUALA LUMPUR: Boustead Holdings Bhd has posted a net loss of RM153.1 million in the first nine months ended September 2019, compared with a net loss of RM14.2 million in the same period last year.

For the third quarter, the group posted a net loss of 155 million against a net profit of RM7.3 million in the corresponding period a year ago.
30/11/2019 9:01 PM
JohnDough Lol you guys go round and round but still haven’t addressed what I said?

I cannot find performance track record or information on Dynaquest? I already explained both Areca and Pangolin before – I can see what Areca invest in (top 5) and am not comfortable with their holdings, it is not transparent either. And Pangolin invests internationally. Most importantly, as I said, 9%, I am comparing to over 100 registered funds, it is amongst the crème de la crème – so if it is bad, then the unit trust funds industry should be shut down entirely. Argue properly ladies.

Ahbah – clearly you are cherry picking on Boustead – but nevertheless, this is what is great about ICAP – you can actually see which holdings are not performing or didn’t succeed. Super transparent. And you can trace everything, all the way back to IPO. When you do that, you will see there are hardly any losers, and way more multibaggers. This is how RM140 mln became RM450 mln. It is not true that I can do this with any other fund as you claim – I can see top 5 or maybe top 10 – but there is no way that I can trace everything. Most don’t even bother giving performance since inception, a critical criteria to consider. Conversely, I can access everything from www.icapital.my and the annual report.

When it is this transparent, and I can see what companies that TTB buys, how he buys and its track record – for myself and others that continue to vote against London in every AGM, this is why we invest with ICAP. As I have said before, if you are not happy – then DIY, or invest in other funds. No need to envy.

By the way, opening a closed end fund doesn’t get you Ferrari or Lambo – opening an open end mutual fund, which relies on large entry and exit fees, high management fees and high performance fees – does.

If opening a close end fund can easily buy you a Ferrari or Lambo, why is it that ICAP remains the only closed end fund on the Bursa? Think please.

My mouth is hardly open – I think more than I talk. Something that you should seriously consider too, judging by your weak arguments. Learn from Stockraider – he has now taken my advice and have gone on a sabbatical.
01/12/2019 5:33 PM
ahbah "Ahbah – clearly you are cherry picking on Boustead "

Posted by ahbah > Oct 18, 2019 9:03 AM | Report Abuse

ICap got strike a gold mine in Padini ! Congratulations !

Mr John, all my posts are facts n fair comments based on facts. U can

see I no pick cherry. As I stay in the kampong, I only pick coconuts !
02/12/2019 5:17 PM
jeydan89 Another crab talk by the king of crabs!!
03/12/2019 2:39 PM
jeydan89 Is Dynaquest managing any funds, what's the performance, can't seem to find.
03/12/2019 2:59 PM
cheoky No need find la. I fabricate one la.

Just be satisfied with unable realized 9% annualized holding, let the best of the best earn the deserving rm8mil, you continue be part owner of this fund. The most transparent and safest fund in market equity. That is the best option in bursa OK. Don't try to have second thought there are better fund out there OK.

Cos there are none. At least in your mind.

Tick tok tick tok.
03/12/2019 8:10 PM
ahhuat56 ICAP is a closed-end fund and it is different in many ways from a normal listed company. Many Malaysians are not familiar with closed-end fund, hence they talk nonsense and mislead others. Closed-end funds are very popular in the developed countries because investors over there took the trouble to know what is so unique about closed-end fund and took advantage of it.
04/12/2019 12:36 PM
ahhuat56 Be a serious investor, do your homework. Don't listen to people to talk nonsense in forums like this one.
04/12/2019 1:39 PM
ahbah ICAPITAL.BIZ BHD: How much are the fees of closed-end fund and mutual funds? Examine their costs.

04/12/2019 6:12 PM
ahbah All talk here is crab talk or nonsense talk !
04/12/2019 8:31 PM
ahbah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wQFaX83l1E
04/12/2019 8:38 PM
enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ @JohnDough,
No use preaching to non-believers. They don't place much importance on integrity & accountability of management.

To each its own.
05/12/2019 12:27 AM
ahbah Got any use to keep on boasting about the 9% performance which all

ICap shareholders no got ?
05/12/2019 9:08 AM
ahbah I onli place importance on what I got and put inside my pocket onli !

What I see n no got onli make me bitter, salty n angry !

Mr John got understand the above ?
05/12/2019 9:47 AM
ahbah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOEYjvTcyOQ
05/12/2019 9:54 AM
ahbah I must conclude Mr John n mani others also must be in the tan & co

bcos onli they got the 9% performance in their gaji.
05/12/2019 5:31 PM
stockraider A very important lesson for TTB for holding on its losers & cutting out the winners in icap loh..!!

Cutting Your Losses

Imagine this, you had a cut and is currently bleeding, what would your reaction be. Would you wait and see if the bleeding would stop by itself? Perhaps if the wound is small and the bleeding seems likely to stop. But what if after a short while, the bleeding seems particularly bad and did not stop - what would you do then? Most likely you would take action to stop the bleeding right? Also the worse the wound, the more drastic an action you’d take right? You would certainly not let yourself bleed until you fall unconscious or worse surely.

I think this is the same with cutting financial losses with stocks that you own. Why is it important to cut your losses? If you think that the company that you bought is a good company why should you sell at a loss just because the stock price of the company drops ‘temporarily’? Afterall, the company is not likely to go bankrupt soon. Sure the price of it’s stock will rise again soon. Do you notice all the above are what ifs statements?

It’s certainly very emotional to cut losses because once you own the stock you create an emotional hope to it. But when your stock drop below the price that you bought it at, at some point you will need to cut it loose and stop bleeding. And like bleeding, the longer you wait (if it did not stop on its own) the worse it might get.

To drive the point in on the importance of having a strategy of cutting losses (vs the buy and hold strategy), have a look at the curve below. If your initial investment had a loss of 10%, by cutting loss at this level (10%), you will only need to reinvest the capital that you have remaining with something that have gain of 11% to recover your losses. However, if you only decided to cut losses after your investment drops to 40% it’s value your recovery investment will need to have a profit of 67% - something quite challenging but perhaps possible.

However if you waited till you lost half of your investment value to cut losses – you will now needed something that gain you 100% just to recover back to your original level of capital, very tough even with good circumstances.

In my last post, I mentioned a portfolio of investment that had a loss of over 25% over 2 years. If I set my cut loss level appropriately for the stocks, perhaps this loss can be reduced. Certainly I don’t want to wait for the losses to accumulate to 40% before cutting my losses.

So what is the level I should set for cutting losses? Obviously different people would have a different appetite for risk. But I think the first question would be what is the upside of the stock – ie. How much are you expecting (not hoping) to gain from your purchase. If you keep your cut loss limit low ie 20% and below as not to fall into the exponential recovery requirements from the ‘loss’ curve below then you could go with rules like half of expected gain.

For example if your expected gain is 16% you could set your cut loss to be at 8%. With this strategy your risks of upside and downside about breaks even and with even a 50-50 chance in your portfolio of gains you would make money or at least break even.

One last thing, unless you are a day trader, it’s important to filter out the noise in your cut loss levels, so usually using the closing price as your reference would work better than tracking the price throughout the day which may make you cut your losses prematurely. On the other hand you should not wait out too long as a rapid drop in prices would quickly take out much more losses that you had anticipated to cut.

Let’s apply this strategy of 8% cut losses and 16% profit strategy on the same portfolio of stocks that I use in the last post where I posted a loss of over 25% with hold-a-long-time method after the same period of 2 years. In addition I also use a strategy of buying back the stock: if after 2 consecutive month that the stock stays in the uptrend I will buy back in the 3rd month if the uptrend remains. Stocks are sold or bought only at the beginning of the month (means you only track the stock once a month!).

I think this represents a very conservative way of managing your stocks and most will not probably use this strategy, especially on taking profit. Just to note that no profit managed to be taken using this strategy for the duration of the 2 years.

With this simple strategy the 25% losses earlier have been reduced to under 17%. Quite an amazing feat seeing how simple and primitive the strategy used – where little thinking and analyzing is involved. Also need to note that all of the stocks chosen at the end of 2 years are on a downtrend.

The table below compares this simple strategy compared to buy and hold, for the same set of stocks that is not performing that I mentioned in my last post.
07/12/2019 12:55 PM
stockraider I think with a little bit more thought into the profit taking process and some better chart analyses we should be able to cut these losses even more or even start to make some profits despite an overall downtrend.

For me I feel like a strategy of cutting losses at some point is much more preferable to the hold strategy, even for long term investors especially for those of us who have limited resources to invest and cannot let our money ‘rest’ on a stock for an extended time waiting for the price to ‘surface’
07/12/2019 12:55 PM
JohnDough Ahbah your post talking about fees (https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/general/134913.jsp) – that guy can’t even count “The size is $USD1.3b = RM5.5b. Note the Front load Fee is 5.5%, If you invest RM1m, you only get 94.5% of 1m = RM945000, RM5500 is the "entry fee”. Well, it is actually RM55,000 lol... it explains the quality of your arguments. Nevertheless, it supports my whole point about iCAP and closed end funds – there are no buy in or exit fees and in ICAP’s case, zero performance fee. So if you think ICAP’s 1.5% with no entry/exit fee and no performance fee is “bad”, then think about all the mutual funds out there.

I will repeat: this is why ICAP remains the only closed end fund on Bursa, because fund managers make way more from open-end funds, they don’t even have to perform, they just need the sales team to continue churn clients’ money – that is the business model. I and many others (that is, shareholders who continue to vote against London every year) am thankful that there is a product like ICAP on the market. As I said, if ICAP doesn’t suit you, then can DIY, or can go and buy other funds. It’s a free market.

Padini aside, don’t forget Petronas Dagangan, F&N, Integrax, P.I.E, Astro, VADS , Hai-O, KLK, and more that were sold for handsome profits. How else did RM140 mln grow to RM450 mln? And don’t forget, both Boustead and Parkson were multiples of its value in the past, for instance, in FY13, partial shares of Boustead and Parkson were sold for 106% and 260% gains respectively. See what I mean about transparency?

Furthermore, “investing is most intelligent when it is most businesslike” – true value investors don’t think about cutting losses (am looking at you Stockraider – cut and paste other people’s thoughts? Scared now to put out your own after multiple blunders?) – this is a trader’s mindset. Nothing wrong with it, if you believe in this strategy – then go put your money with a trader or be a trader yourself.

However, time and again, in numerous studies and evidence itself (Charlie Munger, Mohnish Pabrai, Seth Klarman, Warren Buffett etc.) – by far value investing has been proven superior. There may be periods where it underperforms – like the tech boom in the late 90’s and in more recent times (which is why Warren Buffett’s cash is now more than US$120 bln) – but it is time tested because it is conservative, it thinks more about the downside than the upside. Value investors do not think in 5 year terms – they think in intergenerational terms. Capital preservation is paramount. If you don’t like it, its okay – again, can go DIY and/or there are other funds out there – take your pick. As Enigmatic correctly pointed out, to each its own. No need to be jelly beans.
08/12/2019 8:10 PM
ahbah If we no like any closed end fund, we all can go DIY. Agreed !

But when any closed end fund is trading at a big discount near its

maturity / renewal date, mani closed end fund vultures, even as far as

from UK, will come n look for their food.

When big vultures come, small robins also will join in to get their

08/12/2019 8:40 PM
ahbah Mr John, I find your post on ICap investment informative. I must admit

it is banyak susah to strike gold mine all the times when we go mine

prospecting exploration.

Maybe we have to cap the exploration expenses.
08/12/2019 8:59 PM
jeydan89 It is very sad that when objective arguments are posted, we are labelled as TB & Co.

While others continue their bashing by repeating their fallacies over and over again, just to cite a few here:-

- annualised return over the last 5 yrs only 1% (Fact is, over 14 yrs is 9%),

- profits/returns all earned to pay FM and its employees' salaries and shareholders get nothing (Fact is, FM fees only 0.75% p.a. of NAV. In fact, profit is not even the correct barometer to use for performance comparison of a CEF. WHY? ICAP as a long-term investor, hardly sells any shares frequently. NAV should be used instead. Even when NAV is rising, the fee rate is still the same, no performance fee paid to incentivize the FM). The NAV is already net off the FM fees belong to the shareholders, that's why, it is also known as SHAREHOLDERS EQUITY or SHAREHOLDERS' FUNDS, as per the AR.

- Those who invest in ICAP for long-term will be losers in the end, better push for ICAP to wind-up next year, can gain more than 30% (fact is, I don't mind if there are plenty of other performing CEFs in Bursa or other equivalent funds to choose from but sadly, Bursa only has 1 CEF, ie, ICAP, as JohnDough said, haven't found any other equivalent funds as conservative and transparent as ICAP)
09/12/2019 10:31 PM


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