Highlights
KLSE: YINSON (7293)       YINSON HOLDINGS BHD MAIN : Energy
Last Price Today's Change   Day's Range   Trading Volume
6.98   -0.03 (0.43%)  6.98 - 7.01  95,400
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Additional Listing

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Ann. Date Date Type Units Price Total NOSH View
09-Jul-2019 10-Jul-2019 ESOS 42,000 3.650 1,093,637,473 Additional Listing Detail
25-Jun-2019 26-Jun-2019 ESOS 10,000 3.650 1,093,595,473 Additional Listing Detail
13-Jun-2019 14-Jun-2019 ESOS 28,000 3.650 1,093,575,473 Additional Listing Detail
28-May-2019 29-May-2019 ESOS 30,000 2.800 1,093,517,473 Additional Listing Detail
03-May-2019 06-May-2019 ESOS 50,000 2.800 1,093,487,473 Additional Listing Detail
24-Apr-2019 25-Apr-2019 ESOS 5,000 2.800 1,093,437,473 Additional Listing Detail
09-Apr-2019 10-Apr-2019 ESOS 10,000 2.800 1,093,432,473 Additional Listing Detail
26-Mar-2019 27-Mar-2019 ESOS 11,000 2.800 1,093,422,473 Additional Listing Detail
13-Mar-2019 14-Mar-2019 ESOS 47,600 2.800 1,093,411,473 Additional Listing Detail
11-Mar-2019 12-Mar-2019 ESOS 36,000 2.800 1,093,363,873 Additional Listing Detail
26-Feb-2019 27-Feb-2019 ESOS 72,000 2.800 1,093,327,873 Additional Listing Detail
15-Feb-2019 18-Feb-2019 ESOS 10,000 2.800 1,093,255,873 Additional Listing Detail
28-Jan-2019 29-Jan-2019 ESOS 108,300 2.800 1,093,245,873 Additional Listing Detail
26-Dec-2018 27-Dec-2018 ESOS 3,500 2.800 1,093,137,573 Additional Listing Detail
11-Dec-2018 12-Dec-2018 ESOS 20,000 2.800 1,093,134,073 Additional Listing Detail
28-Nov-2018 29-Nov-2018 ESOS 22,000 2.800 1,093,114,073 Additional Listing Detail
09-Nov-2018 12-Nov-2018 ESOS 45,000 2.800 1,093,092,073 Additional Listing Detail
23-Oct-2018 24-Oct-2018 ESOS 30,000 2.800 1,093,047,073 Additional Listing Detail
11-Jun-2018 12-Jun-2018 ESOS 5,000 2.800 1,093,017,073 Additional Listing Detail
21-May-2018 22-May-2018 ESOS 15,000 2.800 1,093,012,073 Additional Listing Detail
14-May-2018 14-May-2018 ESOS 30,000 2.800 1,092,997,073 Additional Listing Detail
09-Mar-2018 12-Mar-2018 ESOS 48,300 2.800 1,092,967,073 Additional Listing Detail
12-Feb-2018 13-Feb-2018 ESOS 110,333 2.800 1,092,918,773 Additional Listing Detail
29-Jan-2018 30-Jan-2018 ESOS 10,000 2.800 1,092,808,440 Additional Listing Detail
07-Jul-2015 08-Jul-2015 Private Placement 60,000,000 2.830 1,092,798,440 Additional Listing Detail
12-Jun-2014 13-Jun-2014 Rights Issue 258,199,610 2.200 516,399,220 Additional Listing Detail
04-Dec-2013 05-Dec-2013 Others 37,809,000 2.820 258,199,610 Additional Listing Detail
07-Jun-2013 10-Jun-2013 Private Placement 20,035,510 2.820 220,390,610 Additional Listing Detail
25-May-2012 28-May-2012 Private Placement 11,987,100 1.700 200,355,100 Additional Listing Detail
07-Mar-2012 08-Mar-2012 Rights Issue 113,020,800 1.000 188,368,000 Additional Listing Detail
25-Jul-2011 26-Jul-2011 Private Placement 249,700 1.700 75,347,200 Additional Listing Detail
07-Jul-2011 08-Jul-2011 Private Placement 6,600,000 1.650 75,097,500 Additional Listing Detail
Analyze this stock with MQ Trader system

  2 people like this.
 
Sslee Hahajaha,
Qqq3 7.5% intetest is not a cheap way to raise fund. Need to learn from JAKS ALP how to raise cheap funds.
12/07/2019 12:53 PM
W205 Philips, how do you view the Ezion acquisition? How does that fit with the business of Yinson? It seems the deal might not go through
12/07/2019 12:57 PM
(S=QR) Philip I don't know how many companies in Bursa can raise funds via bonds with payback maturity period of 999 years in the principal capital.

I noticed this in 2015 when cimb helped raised perpetual bonds for YINSON at 120 million usd. In my kind, at 7.85% rates they can just pay off the interest payments until one day when the Malaysian ringgit recovers up to 3 or 3.2, and the use dollar shrinks again, and clear it up the maturity.

This may come in 10 years, 20 years or 30 years.

They may even renegotiate new facility at better rates and reset the whole thing at their leisure.

I realized then that yinson will not have liquidity problems for a very very long time, if ever.

>>>>>>>>>

Posted by Sslee > Jul 12, 2019 12:53 PM | Report Abuse

Hahajaha,
Qqq3 7.5% intetest is not a cheap way to raise fund. Need to learn from JAKS ALP how to raise cheap funds.
12/07/2019 1:07 PM
(S=QR) Philip To be honest, I hope it doesn't go through. The assets and synergy is definitely undervalued and is a perfect target for takeover due to evious ezion economic problems.

But those same economic problems will also cause YINSON to be overstretched and headaches in the future.

In the wake of these long term contracts with Brazil and Ghana high possibilities, I believe YINSON will do the right thing and not stretch their resources and just do the simpler things and get the orders and expedite ship conversion and profit raising.

I have a clear view of where YINSON cash flow and earnings growth will come from 10 years from now. Ezion gives me a big headache.


>>>>>>

Posted by W205 > Jul 12, 2019 12:57 PM | Report Abuse

Philips, how do you view the Ezion acquisition? How does that fit with the business of Yinson? It seems the deal might not go through
12/07/2019 1:12 PM
(S=QR) Philip Can you name any negligence on yinson part in interest repayments? On return hand, each contract they sign comes with a clause where the chartering party has to pay a penalty for any contract cancellation ( which turns out to be the cost of ship conversion). This pays for all the returns of the bond if needed to close.

There is nothing to contend if YINSON does not have any bad debt history and an exemplary history of producing ahead of schedule, good track record of results and a wonderful paymaster.

I have owned YINSON since 2012 and I have yet to find any fault in their business practise.

In any case the bonds are not available for retail investors like you. Minimum outlay is 1m usd for the bond takeup.

Major institutions have greedily picked up as the repayments are clockwork and the business contracts solid.

Imagine a bank taking your fixed deposit and epf submissions and paying you 4% or 6.3% per annum. Where would they go to get the returns? Buy stocks in sapura? Sumatec? Insas? Those are totally risky investments. Instead they buy the issued bonds from YINSON which pays 6.8% and 7.85% which is very stable and profitable. Most of all those bonds are backed by assets in use and on site, drawing cash flow.

It is a positive cycle, the better the contracts they more profit they have. The better the profit the more institutions want to lend to them.

The only problem you need to look at now is their ability to perform, how will they will do in their first project in Brazil waters.

The payments are very clear cut and consistent ( you stop paying, I stop delivering oil barrels). The debt is also very clear cut ( no maturity on bonds, only interest payments to worry about). The biggest risk is execution.

But YINSON has shown their ability to execute, with Japan institutions rushing to buy a piece of their action.

I feel confident as a shareholder.

>>>>>>>>>>>

DickyMe The contention is not about the return but the tenure and negligence of constraints.
12/07/2019 12:10 PM
12/07/2019 1:33 PM
Sslee Dear Philip,
Mean no offend, my HSBC account manager do recommend me to buy USD bond with bond yield rate 2% - 4% depend on Bond issuer hence 7.5% sound a lot. Will it be cheaper to borrow long term loan and then keep refinance with new loan when the old loan is due to expire?
Thank you
12/07/2019 2:20 PM
Rwkl The seems keen to get a slice of Ezion and are going thru due diligience.
If all goes well a EGM will be called.
There are only 3 FPSO players now and the other 2 have their hands full..
So Yinson is the only 1 left and they too have their resources streched
12/07/2019 3:34 PM
Rwkl The board
12/07/2019 3:35 PM
Sslee Dear Philip,
Some of the USD Bonds quote by HSBC Indo account Manager:
Indo Gov Bond: INDON49
Coupon: 5.35%
Maturity: 11-Feb -2049
Bid: 119.00 Ask: 122.00
Ask Yield to Maturity: 4.06%. Acc interest days: 216

CORP Bond: IDASAL 28
Coupon: 6.53%
Maturity: 15-Nov -2028
Bid: 117.80 Ask: 121.15
Ask Yield to Maturity: 3.82%. Acc interest days: 62
Minimum Investment USD 50,000

So is YINSON Bond placed out by the CIMB for investors to buy/bid and sell/ask?

Thank you
12/07/2019 5:46 PM
haihai Somehow this counter is trusted by the Sharks for the past 3 days..
No harm to follow the queue while it is still affordable..

Friday, 12 Jul 2019
5:15PM YINSON KUMPULAN WANG PERSARAAN (DIPERBADANKAN) (1,011,200 units Transacted)
5:15PM YINSON EMPLOYEES PROVIDENT FUND BOARD (3,634,800 units Transacted)


Thursday, 11 Jul 2019
5:39PM YINSON EMPLOYEES PROVIDENT FUND BOARD (2,873,500 units Transacted)
5:39PM YINSON KUMPULAN WANG PERSARAAN (DIPERBADANKAN) (920,500 units Transacted)
5:01PM YINSON General Meetings: Outcome of Meeting


Wednesday, 10 Jul 2019
5:20PM YINSON EMPLOYEES PROVIDENT FUND BOARD (1,175,300 units Transacted)
5:20PM YINSON KUMPULAN WANG PERSARAAN (DIPERBADANKAN) (986,600 units Transacted)
13/07/2019 6:13 AM
13/07/2019 6:17 AM
(S=QR) Philip Hi sslee. No offense reserved.

It is definitely cheaper to do so, but you need to know the full structure of the bond. My recommendation is to understand the underlying security of the bond structure.
2-4% sounds like a treasury bond, which is guaranteed and covered by government.

There main issue is still maturity period and coupon rate ( the bond value at buyback also makes sense).

Another example is topglove bonds recently. The bond rates are very low, 200 million usd@ 2% per annum 5 year period, which is used to pare down their existing loans which is paid at 4% per year. This sounds very good. However they have to give up a few things namely introducing a convertible bond ( they can convert the 200 million usd into 131 million shares@conversion price of rm6.2), and also allow bondholders to borrow 2.1% of owners shareholdings or 5.1 million shares to be used for short selling. This sweetens the deal enough ( and protects bondholders in case the stock price tanks), that the bonds were snapped up immediately on the SGX and BURSA markets.

So in other words, nothing is got free. There is a cost to everything.

For YINSON case, 7.5% with no maturity period ( estimate 14 years to break get back your principal amount, balance perpetual). Ship charter risk if client non-payment ( penalty clause, low risk, i think rated bba+).

Or indo government bonds
Indo Gov Bond: INDON49
Coupon: 5.35%
Maturity: 11-Feb -2049

It all falls to your estimate of trust for the company (or government) ability to pay.

Thank you

Sapura and Armada share price crash is because debt generation and interest repayments has increased, while their profit margins and revenues has be dropped tremendously. With looming maturity of borrowings to be repaid in the very near future, and no one willing to buy their bonds, it extend loans, their only option is to do rights issue, warrant or cash call.

Yinson borrowings had no maturity period, thus classified as equity. Very very good arrangement for strong growing companies.

>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by Sslee > Jul 12, 2019 2:20 PM | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
Mean no offend, my HSBC account manager do recommend me to buy USD bond with bond yield rate 2% - 4% depend on Bond issuer hence 7.5% sound a lot. Will it be cheaper to borrow long term loan and then keep refinance with new loan when the old loan is due to expire?
Thank you
13/07/2019 7:26 AM
(S=QR) Philip I believe when the opportunity and cash presents itself ( when future value of 1.5 billion is worth 1.2 billion in tomorrow's inflated money), yinson can easily retire debt at far lower interest rates 2% over 5 years.

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2019/07/04/cgs-cimb-research-upgrades-yinson-back-to-add-from-hold/

In the meanwhile, yinson needs cash to win projects and grow their business. With 3 FPSO technically won worth 709k usd day rate for a charter of 25 years for marlim 1, 650k usd day rate for whale park 22 years and Ghana 15 years, the projections are very easy to calculate and firm contracts with penalties on both side for noon conformance.

Repayment is definitely not an issue.

Technical performance of their international Norway team is also very good.

I can pretty much guarantee a good economic future for YINSON as all these deals are done when the pool prices are low. When o& g industry recovers, and the pe multiples return to mean, YINSON will definitely be rerated on good fundamentals.
13/07/2019 8:09 AM
stockraider The new FPSO will result in YINSON borrowing even exceeding Armada on an absolute basis, that means Yinson gearing will be very high loh...!!

That confirm armada mkt cap Rm 1.4b order books Rm 21b a better investment compare with Yinson mkt Cap Rm 7.2b order books Rm 4b loh.......!!

Rightfully armada should be value much higher than Yinson loh...!!

The good news for goreng Yinson will definitely raised & confirmed armada investment profile as a strong margin of safety & turnaround stock loh...!!
13/07/2019 12:30 PM
stockraider Remember this investment principle loh...if u borrow from people with a promise to pay 8.25% pa...it should be treated as a borrowing even there is no fixed time of repayment loh...!!

If yinson go bankrupt surely the perpetual sukuk holders will rank as a creditors and not equity holders mah....!!

This is what happen to Spore hyflux when they keep classifying their perpetual bond as equity when legally it is indeed a debt loh....!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 11, 2019 12:19 PM | Report Abuse

The reason for the first perpetual sukuk (bond) and why it should be treated as an equty and not debt: most bonds have a redemption coupon and a maturity period. In the case of armada, when the debt on bonds came due and the you have to pay the full maturity period + coupon, liquidity for armada became tight and the share priced crashed as the possibility of default became very high.

With regards to Yinson and why it is very VERY favourable, the perpetual sukuk simply means that there is no maturity period (on the 6.8% return yearly). Depending on how you look at it, as long as Yinson pays the 6.8% in perpetuity they don't need to worry about the debt of the bond. aka PERPETUAL. no maturity date, no call date, they can keep it going for a very long time without entering default. In fact, they can decide to pay of the debt 15 years from now when the long term charter contracts are done with.

In essence, treat it as if your father decided to borrow you money without any agreement, with the assumption that your new business will pay back your father 7.85% every year in bond repayments and he will not chase you for the full repayment of the principal amount + coupon. He is your father after all.

One day you will pay him back everything, but as long as you pay back that coupon rate every year, he will not complain to you mother.
13/07/2019 1:07 PM
stockraider Thus don be fooled by professional conman loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 13, 2019 1:07 PM | Report Abuse X

Remember this investment principle loh...if u borrow from people with a promise to pay 8.25% pa...it should be treated as a borrowing even there is no fixed time of repayment loh...!!

If yinson go bankrupt surely the perpetual sukuk holders will rank as a creditors and not equity holders mah....!!

This is what happen to Spore hyflux when they keep classifying their perpetual bond as equity when legally it is indeed a debt loh....!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 11, 2019 12:19 PM | Report Abuse

The reason for the first perpetual sukuk (bond) and why it should be treated as an equty and not debt: most bonds have a redemption coupon and a maturity period. In the case of armada, when the debt on bonds came due and the you have to pay the full maturity period + coupon, liquidity for armada became tight and the share priced crashed as the possibility of default became very high.

With regards to Yinson and why it is very VERY favourable, the perpetual sukuk simply means that there is no maturity period (on the 6.8% return yearly). Depending on how you look at it, as long as Yinson pays the 6.8% in perpetuity they don't need to worry about the debt of the bond. aka PERPETUAL. no maturity date, no call date, they can keep it going for a very long time without entering default. In fact, they can decide to pay of the debt 15 years from now when the long term charter contracts are done with.

In essence, treat it as if your father decided to borrow you money without any agreement, with the assumption that your new business will pay back your father 7.85% every year in bond repayments and he will not chase you for the full repayment of the principal amount + coupon. He is your father after all.

One day you will pay him back everything, but as long as you pay back that coupon rate every year, he will not complain to you mother.
13/07/2019 1:08 PM
thesteward Gosh what kind of statement is that .
I hv some armada at .18 n will continue to hold I believe will go up too as the worst is over IF they really get their act right
BUT why are are you comparing Armada tw Yinson ???
Yinson is a gem. Splendid management n track record .So what if they go huge t borrowing because their contract big ? The business is expanding at this phase n making good profit ...why not ?
Some companies hv lesser borrowing but has been eroding shareholders value for years that is worse.
Yinson at least make Msia proud .
Not like certain companies from v high price 10 years ago now became penny .
The management are v committed decent businessmen just like QL Respurces , Vitriox, Penta .
The heart of any compmajy is the management team. If you hv ineffective management well one day we can potentially see pn17.
I notice some similarity between good companies ...usually the founders are the one running the show they public list NOT to exit or cash out BUT to expand . They are also major shareholders still.
Ithey regard they co as their baby n would not be jeopardizing their company for some short term gain esp if their next generation is taking on the leadership . But of course there are exceptions . End of the day to succeed ...you need both opportunity , hard work , commitment integrity and most of all grace or ‘luck’.
So far Yinson has proven itself n let’s hope it will be for many years to come .
Faith ...!
Most importantly this counter is not a goreng counter but a fund counter. Shark how to goreng ...wanna goreng also Won’t be looking for counters above rm5 to goreng ma ....they also smart ma .
13/07/2019 1:21 PM
thesteward https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2019/07/13/yinson-continues-to-draw-interest/
13/07/2019 1:21 PM
thesteward Yinson has not failed in delivery of any projects . Can’t say the same for its other peers unfortunately .
13/07/2019 1:29 PM
thesteward When it comes to FPSO counters I more trust MIB targets . Or CS.
CIMB a high target for Armada before the price dropped to a v sad state. Having said that I too believe at current price Armada is pretty low n if they really get their act right I m hoping it could at least go back to .70 .
13/07/2019 1:36 PM
stockraider If u hold armada 5 yrs ago u will also tell people it is a Gem mah..!

Posted by thesteward > Jul 13, 2019 1:21 PM | Report Abuse

Gosh what kind of statement is that .
I hv some armada at .18 n will continue to hold I believe will go up too as the worst is over IF they really get their act right
BUT why are are you comparing Armada tw Yinson ???
Yinson is a gem. Splendid management n track record .So what if they go huge t borrowing because their contract big ? The business is expanding at this phase n making good profit ...why not ?
Some companies hv lesser borrowing but has been eroding shareholders value for years that is worse.
Yinson at least make Msia proud .
Not like certain companies from v high price 10 years ago now became penny .
The management are v committed decent businessmen just like QL Respurces , Vitriox, Penta .
The heart of any compmajy is the management team. If you hv ineffective management well one day we can potentially see pn17.
I notice some similarity between good companies ...usually the founders are the one running the show they public list NOT to exit or cash out BUT to expand . They are also major shareholders still.
Ithey regard they co as their baby n would not be jeopardizing their company for some short term gain esp if their next generation is taking on the leadership . But of course there are exceptions . End of the day to succeed ...you need both opportunity , hard work , commitment integrity and most of all grace or ‘luck’.
So far Yinson has proven itself n let’s hope it will be for many years to come .
Faith ...!
Most importantly this counter is not a goreng counter but a fund counter. Shark how to goreng ...wanna goreng also Won’t be looking for counters above rm5 to goreng ma ....they also smart ma .
13/07/2019 1:38 PM
KNM Sailang Margin All In raider you are like comparing proton with BMW now. I think you should know which is which
13/07/2019 1:39 PM
stockraider This totally not true loh....!!

We are comparing benz with bmw mah...!!

Posted by Mr Jho Heavenly Pakatan U-Turn > Jul 13, 2019 1:39 PM | Report Abuse

raider you are like comparing proton with BMW now. I think you should know which is which
13/07/2019 1:41 PM
thesteward No need argue la. Hope both will up la.
So far rm4.20 3/4 months ago now 7.18 is 70pct .
18 vs 23 is 28pcr
Let’s hope armada will go up lo . Faster catch up la
13/07/2019 2:09 PM
(S=QR) Philip It's ok. Let stockraider compare, he seems to think that he can influence institutions and large investors with his thinking. To bad I'm still holding and will not touch a single share of armada.
13/07/2019 5:31 PM
Outliar Philip, when are you posting your Bikers Gang part 2, been waiting for it for a while now would like to hear your thoughts about PCHEM
13/07/2019 5:33 PM
Qiinvestor Yes, I'm looking forward to it too.
13/07/2019 6:15 PM
(S=QR) Philip Already written, haven't published. Will do it this week
13/07/2019 6:57 PM
Abba84 Stockrader..being too academic i say.
In reality..mny professionl anylsts do not put foot wrong..as they alwys hve strong confdenc n growth yers to come.
They like what they see. n jus buy n drive.
13/07/2019 7:17 PM
ruby20 A company that should make Malaysians proud. Top 10 key takeaways from Yinson AGM.

https://www.facebook.com/1997932356957345/posts/2288864204530824?s=509787555&sfns=mo
13/07/2019 8:29 PM
ruby20 "Yinson business is really in sweet spot. Their growth also can be exponential as they will keep growing if they keep winning contracts, and they will keep winning contracts if they can keep delivering good track records."

Good coverage on Yinson from its latest developments, to FPSO industry overview to its 2020 outlook.
13/07/2019 8:29 PM
stockraider TECHNICALLY PERPETUAL LOAN IS LOAN AND NOT EQUITY LOH...!!

PLS DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE ON YOUR FINANCIAL ASSESSMENT ON YINSON LOH..!

Wrong loh...!!

A loan is a loan mah...!!

Say u have perpetual loan of Rm 1,000M @ 7% pa interest
Short term loan of Rm 2,000M @ 5% pa interest

Like the case of London, suppose u cannot service or repay short term loan and interest of Rm 30m...that means u have defaulted on rm 30m short term loan loh...!!

Most of the short term lender will recalled the Rm 2,000m loan leand out to the company, but the perpetual long term lender of Rm 1,000m, can also recalled their loan too loh...!!

This is bcos perpetual lender has a safeguard in their loan agreement to recalled the loan when there an act of default loh...!!

Do not repeat the same mistake of high flying Spore High Flux LTD, on the issue of treating perpetual loan as equity loh....!!

PHILIP IS VERY SOCHAI & NAIVE LOH...!!


Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 13, 2019 2:11 PM | Report Abuse

Here is the difference between qualitative and quantitative analysis.

If you have a bank loan where you have to pay back the principal in 999 years, is this considered borrowings or equity?

When you have short term debt, long term debt and 999 years debt you need to call a spade a spade. Yinson is excellent in their financial raising capability.

>>>>>>>>>
I invite you to read first before commenting the SC document on the property bond raised in SGX and BURSA.

No such thing loh....all loans got a callable element or clause in the agreement whether short or long term or even perpetual loh...!!
14/07/2019 12:00 AM
stockraider Don be sochai, let face reality mah....!!

Ask yourself honestly Perpetual bond is a debt loan or not mah ?
Yes it is a long term loan and legally it is a debt.
A debt always ranked ahead of equity in the pecking order in terms of repayment loh...!!

Forget about accounting rules, it serve a commercial purpose, as it is trying to encourage hybrid financial products, not understand by simple layman like Philip loh...!!

In fact Yinson Perpetual Bond is a hybyrid junk bond loh...!!
Why leh ?? Yinson bond rate is 7% to 9% pa but your borrowing rates only 3.5% to 6.0% pa loh...!!
Why higher rates leh ?? Bcos people view it as risky loh....!!

So just becareful of Yinson, i see it is like Sapura & Armada 5 to 10 years ago, the share price has hyped up with full of optimism, don get trap loh..!!

Do not listen to conman fund manager & analyst loh, they just want to fatten u for a slaughter eventually loh...!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 14, 2019 6:03 AM | Report Abuse

Accounting rules say you are wrong. Understand the business first itself then look to the debt.

If you understand this better you will understand why foreign investors and major institutions have been buying yinson from 4.09 to 7.20 today.
14/07/2019 10:49 AM
KNM Sailang Margin All In It's okay lah raider, I used to think a heavily leveraged company is a bad company but a capable management which have the ability to utilize debt in a good way is a company worth investing. I bought in at 6.20 I think now is not too late for you to jump onboard this FPSO
15/07/2019 7:30 AM
(S=QR) Philip I'm sure the office boy who drives a myvi is very capable. Please do hold your INSAS for as long as you like while yinson becomes a 8 BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY.

Good luck with your investment and your concert of debt, while others are maximizing their returns over a long long long long term debt. So long in fact that accounting rules treat it as equity.

But yeah, hope you make small money and live a happy life.



>>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 14, 2019 10:49 AM | Report Abuse

Don be sochai, let face reality mah....!!

Ask yourself honestly Perpetual bond is a debt loan or not mah ?
Yes it is a long term loan and legally it is a debt.
A debt always ranked ahead of equity in the pecking order in terms of repayment loh...!!

Forget about accounting rules, it serve a commercial purpose, as it is trying to encourage hybrid financial products, not understand by simple layman like Philip loh...!!
15/07/2019 7:51 AM
newbie8080 Very impressive rally.
More to come.
15/07/2019 1:50 PM
(S=QR) Philip Technically.... A loan that I do not have to pay in my lifetime or my children's children's lifetime is not considered a loan, in my lifetime of I do not need to pay back any principal amount of the loan, I consider it equity.

Why you keep fighting this fact?

Accounting rules already accept this as equity.

Banks and INSTITUTIONS consider this equity.

You are the only idiot who keep fighting this fact.

Never mind la let little kids win.

OK YOU WON, PERPETUAL BOND IS DEBT AND A LOAN. HAPPY? NOW WHAT? GOT MONEY TO EARN?

meanwhile my share price has increased from 4 billion to 7.6 billion.

Still want to fight?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

tockraider TECHNICALLY PERPETUAL LOAN IS LOAN AND NOT EQUITY LOH...!!
15/07/2019 1:59 PM
turbochart Buy!! Tun M anak muzari Kuatkuat!! Hehe 717
15/07/2019 9:31 PM
(S=QR) Philip https://www.insage.com.my/ir/cmn/loadpdf.aspx?sCompanyCode=YINSON&sFileName=19191000032582
16/07/2019 6:49 AM
(S=QR) Philip For a better understanding of the business fundamentals of YINSON.
16/07/2019 6:50 AM
stockraider LEARN THE LESSON FROM HYFLUX SPORE....IT IS ALREADY PROVEN, THOSE WHO MANIPULATE USING PERPETUAL BOND AS EQUITY EVENTUALLY SUFFER LOH..!!

DON REPEAT THE SAME OLD MISTAKE MAH....!!

WHEN HYFLUX IN THE HEYDAYS, THEY TALK BIG LIKE WHAT PHILIP DID ON YINSON LOH.....!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 15, 2019 1:59 PM | Report Abuse

Technically.... A loan that I do not have to pay in my lifetime or my children's children's lifetime is not considered a loan, in my lifetime of I do not need to pay back any principal amount of the loan, I consider it equity.

Why you keep fighting this fact?

Accounting rules already accept this as equity.

Banks and INSTITUTIONS consider this equity.

You are the only idiot who keep fighting this fact.

Never mind la let little kids win.

OK YOU WON, PERPETUAL BOND IS DEBT AND A LOAN. HAPPY? NOW WHAT? GOT MONEY TO EARN?

meanwhile my share price has increased from 4 billion to 7.6 billion.

Still want to fight?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

tockraider TECHNICALLY PERPETUAL LOAN IS LOAN AND NOT EQUITY LOH...!!
16/07/2019 10:39 AM
stockraider Armada a truly quality company and about same standard as Yinson loh ??

1. It achieved the latest same qtr profit as yinson.
2. It has slightly lesser gearing compare to yinson
3. It has more fpso than yinson
4. Armada revenue is twice of yinson.
5 Armada equity is twice of yinson.

MOST IMPORTANT INVESTMENT PREPOSITION : ARMADA is 7 times cheaper than yinson.
16/07/2019 10:53 AM
stockraider Good news for Armada shareholders loh....!!

If raider's finding on Yinson is wrong, then Armada should worth Mkt cap Rm 10.0b about Rm 1.70 per share...a big upside potential from current mkt cap Rm 1.26b loh..!!

If raider findings on Yinson are right..but then armada still hugely undervalue it should still worth Rm 3.0b or Rm 0.50 per share loh...!!
Still very good reasonable upside for armada.

Ask yourself yinson is how much overvalue compare to armada, but its balance sheet are still craps leh ??

When there of reckoning come for Yinson, u cry also no tears loh..!!

YINSON IS ACTUALLY HYFLUX IN THE MAKING LOH...!!

From the above u notice Armada is 2x bigger than yinson, thus Yinson Gearing is not much different from armada.

DON LISTEN TO SOHAI PHILIP & 3iii MAH...Armada mkt cap Rm 1.27b & yinson mktcap Rm 7.3b but Armada is actually 2x bigger than yinson mah..!!

Also Armada borrowing is 10.4b but is shareholder funds is Rm 3.4b thus gearing is 3.0x loh...!!

Yinson borrowing is Rm 6.0b with shareholder funds rm 1.8b thus gearing is 3.3x loh...!!

In fact Yinson Gearing is higher than armada loh..!! In fact Yinson is structure like Hyflux very dangerous loh..!!

Armada is conservative accounting policy writting down its assets whereas Yinson is aggressive jacking up its accounts recognition so that it can borrow more loh...!!

Do not fall for yinson trap loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 7, 2019 10:46 AM | Report Abuse X

Why u need to becareful of Yinson ??
This is bcos the gearing high & not much diffent from armada loh..!!

Yinson borrowing April 2019 as follows:
{In million Rm}
1. Perpetual Bond............1847.
2. Loan & borrowings.........3308.
3.Lease........................13.
4.Loan & Borrowing.............346.
5.Put option liability.........460.
6.Derivative...................61.
Total loan exposure............6039.

Total shareholder fund.........1791.

Total Assets...................8948.

Revenue(qtr)...................209.

Armada borrowings March 2019 as follows:

{In million Rm}
1.Perpetual Bond...............0.
2.Loan & borrowings..........6786.
3.Lease........................29.
4.Loan & Borrowing......... .3194.
5.Put option liability.........414.
6.Derivative...................0.
Total loan exposure...........10423.

Total shareholder fund.........3363.

Total Assets...................15540

Revemue(Qtr)...................491.

From the above u notice Armada is 2x bigger than yinson, thus Yinson Gearing is not much different from armada.
16/07/2019 11:02 AM
(S=QR) Philip I realized that stockraider really doesn't know how to value stocks, that is probably why he values hengyuan at RM35 before it crashed so spectacularly.

The important figures are the same in real life just as in a balance sheet.

What matters is how much revenue and profits you generate versus how much loan interest and the principal amount you need to pay back (or reloan) to continue as an ongoing business.

It doesn't matter how much you owe, first you need to know when you need to pay back the principal amount, then you need to know how much you need to cover the interest payments every year.

The reason why armada is worth 1 billion and yinson 7 billion:

SHORT TERM DEBT. OR HOW MUCH THE BARBARIANS AT THE GATE WANT, AND HOW EASY IT IS TO GET A EXTENSION ON THE LOAN.

Armada had a reprieve when the loan was extended to october 2019, but... IT IS STILL SHORT TERM LOAN. IF THEY DO NOT PERFORM, THEY WILL EXPLODE.

The other main reason,

INTEREST LOAN COVERAGE, or how much is their revenue generation to service existing debt (the reverse of cash flow in, this is cash flow out).

If got gangsters everyday calling you chasing for money, it is very hard to concentrate on making money and doing proper business. On the other hand, if investors are clamouring to give you money that doesnt need to be returned, you can go quite a long time before needing to worry.

DO NOT COMPARE HYFLUX AND YINSON, HYFLUX HAD PROBLEMS WITH ENERGY GENERATION AND PRODUCTION COSTS (SAME LIKE KRAKEN) WHICH RUINED CASH FLOW AND MADE IT NEGATIVE.

YINSON STICKS TO SIMPLE THINGS THAT THEY ARE GOOD AT.

LIKE OIL FERRY AND BUS BUSINESS. VERY CONSISTENT CASH FLOW, VERY CLEAR RETURNS ON EQUITY.

too bad stockraider only sees the trees and miss the forest.

maybe he should sell his myvi and walk around instead? servicing debt can be very hard for an office boy.

if cannot pay for the car, dont gamble with stocks, my sad friend.
17/07/2019 5:15 PM
qqq3 other than management, all top 30 shareholders are Class A institution investors, long term investors who knows their stuffs.....................in fact only 2% free float for daily trading..............
17/07/2019 5:33 PM
stockraider This sochai don understand how healthy company generate good value loh, in the case of yinson it has taken huge debts with gearing even exceeding level exceeding armada, u should worry loh...!!

Yinson latest profits is same as armada, but its mkt cap in 7x larger than armada, r u not concern it is highly overvalue, at a dangerous level leh ?

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 17, 2019 5:15 PM | Report Abuse

I realized that stockraider really doesn't know how to value stocks, that is probably why he values hengyuan at RM35 before it crashed so spectacularly.

The important figures are the same in real life just as in a balance sheet.

What matters is how much revenue and profits you generate versus how much loan interest and the principal amount you need to pay back (or reloan) to continue as an ongoing business.

It doesn't matter how much you owe, first you need to know when you need to pay back the principal amount, then you need to know how much you need to cover the interest payments every year.

The reason why armada is worth 1 billion and yinson 7 billion:

SHORT TERM DEBT. OR HOW MUCH THE BARBARIANS AT THE GATE WANT, AND HOW EASY IT IS TO GET A EXTENSION ON THE LOAN.

Armada had a reprieve when the loan was extended to october 2019, but... IT IS STILL SHORT TERM LOAN. IF THEY DO NOT PERFORM, THEY WILL EXPLODE.

The other main reason,

INTEREST LOAN COVERAGE, or how much is their revenue generation to service existing debt (the reverse of cash flow in, this is cash flow out).

If got gangsters everyday calling you chasing for money, it is very hard to concentrate on making money and doing proper business. On the other hand, if investors are clamouring to give you money that doesnt need to be returned, you can go quite a long time before needing to worry.

DO NOT COMPARE HYFLUX AND YINSON, HYFLUX HAD PROBLEMS WITH ENERGY GENERATION AND PRODUCTION COSTS (SAME LIKE KRAKEN) WHICH RUINED CASH FLOW AND MADE IT NEGATIVE.

YINSON STICKS TO SIMPLE THINGS THAT THEY ARE GOOD AT.

LIKE OIL FERRY AND BUS BUSINESS. VERY CONSISTENT CASH FLOW, VERY CLEAR RETURNS ON EQUITY.

too bad stockraider only sees the trees and miss the forest.

maybe he should sell his myvi and walk around instead? servicing debt can be very hard for an office boy.

if cannot pay for the car, dont gamble with stocks, my sad friend.
17/07/2019 5:56 PM
michaelwong Buying stocks and comparing its fundermentals won't make you going to achieve your wonderful dreams just like what l have long been in this journey but end up resources stuck . The surge in yinson price and armanda is of no comparison as those who bought yinson for 4 ++ are laughing to the bank . The reality in stock markets does not necessarily based on fundermentals alone . Armanda , velesto and sapura energy sounds with lots of contracts but price of share continued to remain stagnant and not going to move forward steadily in a matter of time . An increase in just 1 cent seems like hell break loose and thousands of shares exchange hands . Hopefully my personal views to share might not irritate anyone but to be real , this is my biggest mistake in what l have personally discovered maybe l could be wrong sometimes . Investing is subjected to market forces that determines real profits rather than fundermentals alone . Don't screw me up and our funds of investments must put in good uses .
17/07/2019 9:51 PM
(S=QR) Philip I have been holding yinson since 2012 and keeping until today. I know the business inside out. I know how much their revenues are growing, how much their interest payments are and exactly how much debt they have..

Remind me again how much armada you hold and when you bought it? You suddenly become expert after buying the stock these last few weeks?

Small kids trying to act as if professional investors but are actually driving myvi and making fun of other investors.

When you get a few more years of investing under your belt then you can b say other people so hai ok?

My yinson go from rm1.15 and buy more are rights issue until today is worth 7.15. you know nothing a be presume to know everything.

Malu la office despatch boy.
18/07/2019 9:08 AM
L2earn jangan gaduh... yinson akan sakit hati. Pagi ini dia sudah sedih lah...
18/07/2019 9:24 AM
yoyo everyone free to promote his preferred counter, no need step on others. By calling other bad name will not make you a better investor.
18/07/2019 12:05 PM
L2earn Those who just looking at this counter, forget it first.
21/07/2019 9:20 AM


 

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