"I told you so".....this is why after i read earlier writtings by ocpd and jwarren, i already don't feel the sale will happen. I cabut long time ago. Lucky didn't follow this few guys like crecimiento, alphajack and dodgy.

hi. check the below news:

http://www.digitalnewsasia.com/sizzle-fizzle/icar-asia-grabs-pole-position-in-thailand-with-one2car-acquisition

My kepala pusing already. iCar placed out new shares at AUD1.10 to get AUD21million proceed to buy Thailand competitor for AUD16.7million. Many people is brought to Holland with this price of AUD1.10. How Rev Asia can sell their shares at AUD1.54?

Some more, this iCar is placing out more new shares to Australian and New Zealand shareholders for also AUD1.10.

Pity those who bought Rev Asia at RM1.50 and above.

thank you myoswee for advice. I thought of curi ayam at 92sen. Instead of curi ayam, I might become the ayam.

Hi fong7, i think i read in their announcement, discount is not more than 25% of the market price of iCar. I actually thought of re-entering this counter at 92sen but I worry will get stuck. First time lucky, second time might die standing.

Hi myoswee. Even if got new project, the founder no need to sell shares what. I think he can pledge his Rev shares to financiers to get financing. Like what RHB analyst says, Rev shares are solidly back by iCar value. So no issue at all for financier :)

Of course this method cannot work if the shares are considered not enough value or too risky. This is why I think the story is not so simple loh.

Read this one also. Posted before one

http://drbenway.blogspot.com/2014/03/catcha-group-related-party-fraud.html


I think I consider myself lucky because I didn't do any study before buying this counter. Tembak only. I consider lucky to make some profit and didn't get caught.

Friends, i think myoswee is correct. This counter's story is not so simple one. If so good, why the major shareholders still don't want to do a privatization and then slowly sell down iCar stake? If iCar is so good, why in hurry to sell now? Not logic lah, the more I think think.

I think everyone should read this fellow postings on this counter. This fellow got both Rev Asia and Cuscapi correct.

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/cube/post/jwarren.jsp

Friends, i also cabut already. Waited for RM1.50 but never come.

Friends, got time read the postings by this guy jwarren on the previous posts. Aiyah I should read them first before waiting for so long to sell. Another guy called dodgy is like this crecimento fellow, write a few postings and then disappear.

Thanks Crecimiento. You are right, I think i better sell because i cannot take it. Waiting for 1.50 hehe.

Like I say before, I buy without doing any studies. Remisier told me the company owns another hot company in Australia. The holding company is undervalue because the Australian company is worth much much more than the holding company. So I buy lah because remisier said got analyst reports said big undervalue. But now after doing my own studies, I only know iCar's valuation is so so high like a bit abnormal compare to others (10 times more expensive that the taikor carsales.com). I think icar got potential but the price is very scary liao. Scare got bubble, that's why I change my mind lah. Better to cabut.

Carsales.com dont have alot of money to buy 27% icar. Like i ask before if carsales.com buy the 27%, it will own 49%. carsales.com have to offer to buy the other 51% right? I assume out of this 51%, 15% want to sell to carsales.com meaning carsales.com have to buy 27% + 15% = 42%. At AUD1.30, the market cap is AUD251million. 42% of AUD251million is AUD105million! If it is not 15% but 30%, carsales.com will sai lang liao. Dont think carsales.com want to buy right now. If I shareholder of carsales.com, I will ask why you buy other people with that kind of valuation which is so much higher than you (and some more no profit).

sorry for forget one more thing to ask sifu crecimento. If carsales.com buy all the 27% icar, they must make general offer to buy all the rest, right? They where got enough money! This is why I scare the deal might not be easy to happen.

Thanks sifu Crecimiento,

1. Done further studies. Wah lau eh, icar and iproperty is so much expensive than carsales, REA (property portal like iproperty), SEEK (job portal that buy jobstreet), facebook and google. carsales, REA and SEEK are the champions of online classified in Australia.

icar: Price/sales is 106.4
carsales.com: Price/sales is 10.8
iproperty: Price/sales is 26.2
REA: Price/sales is 15.8
SEEK: Price/sales is 6.2
facebook: Price/sales is 19.9
google: Price/sales is 6.1


icar: PE is zero
carsales.com: PE is 26.7
iproperty: PE is zero
REA: PE is 47.2
SEEK: PE is 13.3
facebook: PE is 84
google: PE is 30.5


Sifu crecimento, I think icar and iproperty is too high value. Scare that something is not right lah.


2. Also I check carsales.com information. They have cash of only AUD26million and receivable of AUD34million. The rest of assets are goodwill, investment and intangible asset. Their longterm debt is AUD165million. Short term debt is AUD10million, payables is AUD6million and other short term liabilities is AUD20million. I am not accountant but the way i see is that carsales.com might not have the firepower to buy the 27% icar from Rev Asia. The 27% icar is 52million share x AUD1.54 = AUD80million. How sifu?


3. I also dont understand why REA can make money but iproperty still losing money even after listed for 7 years already. If I remember correctly, people like jobstreet already making money when they list and continue to make money until today. I scare icar is like iproperty, after 7 years still cannot make money.


I think if Rev Asia can go to 1.50, i will cabut. Make money ok already, don't want to be greedy.

Hi Sifus, thank you for opinions. I done alot reading. Now I become more worry. Better to take profit or to maintain? Tension ah. Hope sifus can comment.

1. Price of Rev Asia is still below RM1.39. Why people dont jump into it? Volume is also not high.

2. Why the major shareholders dont privatize it earlier at below RM1.00 if they know the 27% in iCar can be sold very soon? The market never appreciate it anyway, so the major shareholders should have no problem to privatize it.

3. Hi Creciminto, you said "...with regards to the accusation of fraud on Catcha group, I think this is a norm for the online biz, given that most online biz burn cash like hell during the early years to gain clear market leader position in the specified field. So this always lead to skepticism during the early years..". I still feel not so comfortable because this website (http://drbenway.blogspot.com/2014/03/catcha-group-related-party-fraud.html) dont just critize iCar only. They critize other industry also. Thats why they are not likely to critize Catcha just because Catcha do internet business.

4. Why Rev Asia want to sell iCar is because second hand car business in Malaysia is going to suffer teruk teruk very soon? I remember reading that loan approval for second hand car in Malaysia is like 60% reject. Better sell iCar when the price is still high?


To make 45% and cabut or to maintain to make 90%? Any ideas, sifus?

Thanks sifu Crecimento for your answers. I only invested a very small amount in Rev Asia without doing any studies. But because now need to decide to stay or cabut, have to do studies lah. I come across this forum when doing studies.

1. About the announcement, I still dont understand (sorry I am not a finance man so dont understand alot of corporate takeover) why can't Rev Asia disclose the buying parties and the prices if the deal is very solid. Don't know how to vote in EGM because if vote agree is like giving the board the right to do the deal without knowing what the final deal is all about. What if market price is AUD1.00 or AUD0.70, because the board can still sell as low as 75% of market price.

2. Carsales bought at AUD1.00 in March this year, will it buy at AUD1.54 only after 6 month? iCar is still losing money. I hope they will, then I can make money lah haha. What I scare is Carsales will wait for it to drop back to around AUD1.00 and then only buy. In this case, I cannot make alot of money.

3. The first half of this year will be losing money if without iCar contribution to the profit. I check this financial result and found that their social media business is only have 15% margin but when they takeover the social business of says.com, the margin was nearly 40%. Why drop? I also very scare when I see the company only have cash of 900k. My mind was thinking why not sell like 5% in iCar and get some cash into Rev Asia and then push up the Rev Asia business. This way, when iCar reach full potential Rev Asia can also reach full potential. Rev Asia shareholders can get two winners!

4. What is your thinking of these two links (i put on top before)? I get worry whether the issues are genuine or not.

https://tenbagsfull.com.au/afi/post/2014/2/25/afi-iscam-reaching-dizzy-heights/9778

http://drbenway.blogspot.com/2014/03/catcha-group-related-party-fraud.html

thank you sifu.

Can any sifu comment on the below questions (refer to the Bursa Announcement at below)?:


- The disposal is sure to happen or not? The announcement did not say got a buyer already identified (and no price is fixed). I thought normally, the EGM for any "solid" disposal will have a price and an identified party?

- What if only some of the 27.20% is managed to dispose? What will happen with the unsold portion after one year?

- Today's icar closed at AUD1.35. In the announcement, the assumption is AUD1.54. Wah, dropped so much, why?

- Rev Asia has been selling icar's shares before this disposal announcement. Why for this 27.20% disposal, need to have EGM? I confused.

- If icar has good prospects, why need to sell now? I bought Rev Asia is because I can get exposure to icar at a cheaper cost. Now if Rev Asia sold icar and then return the money to shareholders, I must now buy icar directly at a possibly higher cost if I want to continue to have exposure to icar! Why can't Rev Asia just continue to hold icar longer?



From the Bursa announcement:

The Company proposes to dispose up to 52,500,000 iCar Asia Shares, representing 27.20% of the total issued and paid-up share capital of iCar Asia in the following manner:

(i) in the open market of the ASX (“Open Market Disposal”); or
(ii) off-market disposal to parties other than the Interested Directors and/or Interested Major Shareholders, as defined in Section 10 of this announcement, and/or persons connected to them (“Off-Market Disposal”); or
(iii) a combination of both;

at a price to be determined later. Subsequent to the Proposed Disposal, it is envisioned that Rev Asia will no longer hold any equity interest in iCar Asia. The completion of the Proposed Disposal will be the earlier of the disposal of all iCar Asia Shares held by Rev Asia or a period of not more than one (1) year from the approval received from Rev Asia’s shareholders for the Proposed Disposal at the forthcoming extraordinary general meeting (“EGM”) to be held (“Completion Date”).

The actual number of the iCar Asia Shares to be disposed will be determined by the Board at a later date, subject to amongst others, the prevailing market conditions and the share price of iCar Asia. In addition, the Proposed Disposal may be implemented in tranches or one-off via the Open Market Disposal or Off-Market Disposal or a combination of both. As the Proposed Disposal may be implemented in tranches, there could potentially be several disposal prices.

AND

The disposal price for the iCar Asia Shares will be determined by the Board at a later date and based on a willing buyer-willing seller basis, taking into consideration:

(a) the private placement undertaken by iCar Asia to place out 7,179,240 iCar Asia Shares to carsales.com Ltd at a price of AUD1.00 per iCar Asia Share as announced by iCar Asia to the ASX on 5 March 2014; and
(b) the appreciation of the market price of iCar Asia Shares during the past one (1)-year. As at 22 August 2013, the closing price of the iCar Asia Shares was AUD0.61, while the five (5)-day volume weighted average market price (“VWAMP”) of iCar Asia Shares up to and including the LPD was AUD1.54.

The price of iCar Asia Shares has increased approximately 2.52 times during the past one (1)-year and has increased approximately 7.70 times since the iCar Asia Listing Date.

Notwithstanding the above, the Board may at its discretion proceed to dispose the iCar Asia Shares at a disposal price below the prevailing market price of iCar Asia Shares at a discount of not more than twenty-five percent (25%) to the ten (10)-day VWAMP of iCar Asia Shares.

Found the below links:


https://tenbagsfull.com.au/afi/post/2014/2/25/afi-iscam-reaching-dizzy-heights/9778


http://drbenway.blogspot.com/2014/03/catcha-group-related-party-fraud.html

Catcha Group is a private Malaysian investment company that holds stakes in several loss-making related companies on the ASX, with this cartel inflating incomes and assets with sham related party transactions. The cartel has issued millions of shares based on cooked books. The Catcha Group cartel includes iProperty Group (IPP.AX), iCar Asia (ICQ.AX) and iBuy Group (IBY.AX) on the ASX, as well as Catcha Media Berhad on the Malaysian stock exchange. The extremely poor underlying operational performance of these internet businesses is irrelevant to their use in securities fraud.

The cartel's reported net incomes have been fraudulently inflated by sham related party transactions. In September 2012, IPP sold Indonesian car sales portal Mobil123 to ICQ for scrip, recording a $2.2m book profit on the transaction. Without this related party transaction, IPP would have had twice as large a loss in 2012. In October 2013, IPP sold the ramped holding of ICQ to cartel associate Acorn Capital, making a gain of $5.0m. Without this related party transaction, IPP would have reported a loss in 2013 instead of a maiden profit of $1.7m. The reported net income of IPP is more affected by its sham related party transactions than by its operations, as a statement of fact.

Fund associates of the cartel include Acorn Capital and a group of Australian listed investment companies headed by Australian Foundation Investment Company (AFI.AX). These funds cooperate with the Catcha Group criminals to ramp the tightly held shares of the ASX-listed cartel companies IPP/ICQ/IBY, generating unrealized profits for the funds involved. The fund operators charge real cash fees based on such fraudulently engineered unrealized profits. Since inception, IPP has been ramped 15X and ICQ has been ramped 7X. In the last year alone, IPP has been ramped four times over, ICQ has been ramped three times over, and IBY has almost been doubled.

This leads to commensurate unrealized profits for cartel fund associates AFI, Mirrabooka Investments (MIR.AX), Contango Microcap (CTN.AX) and Acorn Capital. For some of these fraudulent investment companies, this scam alone accounts for a significant proportion of their yearly (unrealized and fraudulent) profit. IPP has now been ramped to the point of inclusion in the S&P ASX 300 index, allowing the criminals to pass off some the junk cartel assets to funds that are mandated to purchase such indices. The annual reports for the cartel companies contains sundry other accounting fraud. In note 23 of its inaugural financial statements, IBY reports the following goodwill for the related party "assets" it purchased in late 2013:

- $23.8m goodwill for Buy Together Hong Kong, an "asset" contributing a $141K loss for the period.
- $40.6m goodwill for Dealguru Holdings, an "asset" contributing a $244K loss for the period.
- $12.1m goodwill for Dealmates, an "asset" contributing a $29K loss for the period.

IBY has total reported assets of $93.7m, with goodwill accounting for $77.6m. But don't worry, in note 12 of the financial statements the IBY directors solemnly declare they have impairment tested said $77.6m of goodwill and found everything in order. The directors do not list the assumptions necessary for reconciling their cash generating units with a $77.6m value, but since IBY's auditor signed off without remark the assumptions must of course be entirely reasonable and non-fraudulent.


What do you guys think? Believable or not?