Posted by PureBear > 2013-05-18 12:25 | Report Abuse

Just wondering why Hooi is not promoting stocks after 9th May? Got fired from Icap? Hehehe.

Posted by arv18 > 2013-05-18 15:23 | Report Abuse

"But actually icap at more than 20% discount to its NAV, to me is a good investment now, putting other things aside." -kcchongnz

That 20% discount unfortunately is the "Tan Teng Boo Stubborn Arrogant" discount.

Essentially the market is telling you to do your own homework and buy good stocks instead of wasting your time with this idiot.

Posted by greatdreamer > 2013-05-18 16:10 | Report Abuse

The 20% discount is most likely due to 'consistent underpeformance' of icap over the last few years. When a fund can consistently beat the market, investor will like the fund and the share price will be trade at premium over NAV like early day of icap.

MrTTB most likely adopted the china-man style management. In early day of icap, he only has one fund to look after. But now, he may have over-stretched him as he need to take care of so many funds across different region.

The 20% discount will mostly continue to persist unless the fund can perform better or a winding up expectation be initiated by shareholders.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-18 16:53 | Report Abuse

At more than 20% discount to NAV, I would seriously like to invest in this fund. For one TTB is not a lousy fund manager, just stubborn. icap grossly outperformed the market by huge margin initially until early 2008. Since then it tracked the performance of the market quite closely, of course in NAV term, not share price. So overall icap's NAV still outperformed the market by about 2-3% a year, at least.

I believe one day the Lexey Partner saga will repeat by some other funds, especially a foreign one. The London investment fund is slowly accumulating the shares now. With more than 20% ahead, head I win, tail I win later.

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-05-18 18:03 | Report Abuse

from 2012 annual report, icap punya portfolio

Boustead Holdings Berhad
Fraser & Neave Holdings Berhad
Integrax Berhad
Malaysia Smelting Corporation Berhad
Padini Holdings Berhad
Parkson Holdings Berhad
Petronas Dagangan Berhad
P.I.E. Industrial Berhad
Suria Capital Holdings Berhad
Tong Herr Resources Berhad
Pharmaniaga Berhad

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-05-18 18:18 | Report Abuse

Logically speaking, if feel the share price always below the nav, construct back a similar portfolio base on the percent for each counter, then wait for 1 or 2 years if still believe in ttb..

Posted by arv18 > 2013-05-18 23:19 | Report Abuse

The thing is guys, I have come to realize that Bursa is not like NYSE or NASDAQ or FTSE or STI or Hang Seng. These markets are dynamic, and play by international rules. You can apply Warren Buffets strategy, Benjamin Graham rules, Value Investing, Altman Z Score etc etc. In Bursa, not so much. Better to apply Racist strategy (like UMNO) as I describe below...

I tell you one investment strategy for long term investors in Bursa. I know this is going to sound SO racist, and please do try and prove me wrong, but if you just bought companies helmed by "white guys", gwai-los, mat sallehs, you would have made tonnes of money...

Such companies like Carlsberg, GAB, Nestle, Dutch Lady, BAT (first Malaysian CEO in 2010, Mr William Toh Ah Wah) and Digi (after Vincent Tan sold it to Telenor). Am I right, or am I right?

Posted by arv18 > 2013-05-18 23:22 | Report Abuse

And what does that say about Malaysian companies and management?? Do they lack integrity, honesty, transparency, vision, corporate execution abilities, compromise, cooperation? Its a pretty damning indictment on corporate Malaysia in general if you ask me.

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-05-19 13:04 | Report Abuse

is icap performing for the last few months ?


as at 17/05/2013

BSTEAD 17/05/2013 5.42
F&N 17/05/2013 18.20
INTEGRA 17/05/2013 1.47
MSC 17/05/2013 3.30
PADINI 17/05/2013 1.93
PARKSON 17/05/2013 3.88
PETDAG 17/05/2013 25.12
PIE 17/05/2013 4.88
SURIA 17/05/2013 1.77
TONGHER 17/05/2013 1.80
PHARMA 17/05/2013 9.09



as at 14/08/2012 vs 17/05/2013

BSTEAD 14/08/2012 5.37 +0.05 +0.93%
F&N 14/08/2012 19.92 -1.72 -8.63%
INTEGRA 14/08/2012 1.47 +0.00 +0.00%
MSC 14/08/2012 3.26 +0.04 +1.23%
PADINI 14/08/2012 2.26 -0.33 -14.60%
PARKSON 14/08/2012 4.80 -0.92 -19.17%
PETDAG 14/08/2012 22.96 +2.16 +9.41%
PIE 14/08/2012 4.55 +0.33 +7.25%
SURIA 14/08/2012 1.57 +0.20 +12.74%
TONGHER 14/08/2012 1.98 -0.18 -9.09%
PHARMA 14/08/2012 8.49 +0.60 +7.07%

Posted by arv18 > 2013-05-19 20:37 | Report Abuse

AIYOH! This TTB better re-align his portfolio before the market massacres it!

Posted by greatdreamer > 2013-05-19 21:38 | Report Abuse

The weekly Edge dd 20/5/13 interviewed with TTB reveal some interesting points:
- TTB now focus on 2 global funds, icap global fund & icap international value fund.
- Icap have office in Sydney, Spore, HK, KL.
- TTB spend most of his time on road visiting companies around the world.
- TTB claim he has a unique way of running his fund. Support by a large team of analysts, he is the ONLY decision maker. It is a 'ONE MAN SHOW' with no investment committee and no one with different views.
- TTB claim Najib election result is worst than former PM, fear be replaced in the coming umno election.
- TTB expect KLCI could slump to 1000 to 1560 from current 1783.
- TTB work 7 day a week and work even harder than 24 yr ago when Capital Dymanic was formed.
- TTB plan is don't want just be a global company, want to be true global fund manager from Asia.

Posted by iafx > 2013-05-19 22:15 | Report Abuse

all profits including interest only benefit small group of cronies, u bear all the fluctuation risks for them. buy pbb counter alone beat this icap anytime, no need to talk about otherwise

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-05-19 23:14 | Report Abuse

Icap no successor ? another dictator.. i started to feel ttb talking nonsense, in his interview with channel news, he say manufacturing drive the economic growth and no fate in the country's economy.. hello ttb you jus a fund manager buy and sell shares, money make money, are you contributing to the economic growth ? how come you dont find opportunity in crisis one like wb ?

okok guess most investors here are objective and rationale too, not interested in his dreams, only believe in results.. will icap say dont like sell lor hahaha

Posted by sephiroth > 2013-05-19 23:20 | Report Abuse

this is a useless counter, no dividend, nothing. Even if make huge profit will not benefit shareholder

Posted by arv18 > 2013-05-19 23:53 | Report Abuse

you are all correct. TTB and icap are finished, as far as i'm concerned. you only needed to have bought two or three select counters like dksh, pwroot, daibochi, hua yang, tune ins, hunza to outperform this fool. stop focusing on ikan bilis like TTB/icap. focus on the juicy alaskan king crabs, abalone, king prawns, tiger/dragon grouper, blue fin tuna in Bursa.

Posted by bhong47 > 2013-06-01 09:50 | Report Abuse

Seriously I made much more money following felicity (serious investing). than ttb
and his icap.Ttb has passed his time just like neoh soon kean before him.He is more interested in collecting millions in management fees rather than making money for the shareholders

Posted by hooi > 2013-06-24 10:01 | Report Abuse

Bought Icap at 2.41

Posted by sephiroth > 2013-07-02 17:27 | Report Abuse

superb profit but no dividend
http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1339289

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-02 18:12 | Report Abuse

Icap just reported its 2013 financial results ended 31/5/2013. It made 57m, or 40.6 sen for the year. Isn’t that great? Bullshit!

To look at the results of a closed-end fund, profit for the year is irrelevant. The “profit” was mainly derived from the sale of some shares which could have been bought long ago. Yes, icap, already holding one third of cash a year ago, sold more shares last year but never buy any, presumably trying hard to time the market, and it is holding 208m in cash now, or an incredible half of its assets in cash! WTF, a fund holding a third to half the asset in cash, while the total management expenses amount to 7m, or more than 3% of invested capital!

A better comparison for the performance of the fund is its NAV for the two years. NAV for 2013 rose by only 4.5% to 2.99 per share compared to last year of 2.86. The broad market as measured by KLCI index rose by 12.4% from 1574 to 1769. That means the fund manager under-performed the market by a whopping 7.9%. OMG, that is the performance of the Oracle of Bursa?

Any value investor would not try to time the market, more so for a self proclaimed better investor than Warren Buffet which he made a few years ago. Fundamental investors invest based on the business of companies, their performance and then invest when the price is reasonable. They don’t time the market. But why TTB still try to do that for so many years already? I really cannot understand.

More so I don’t understand why the majority of the shareholders in icap treat him like God, as shown in the last saga when Laxxey Partners tried to put in a couple of their people in the board.

Can someone enlighten me ah? hooi, where are you?

Posted by sense maker > 2013-07-02 18:18 | Report Abuse

TTB has been an underperformer for quite long. Icap shareholders were naive and a joke for idolizing and backstopping him in the power struggle last year. Icap share price has not moved much and the shareholders asked for it.

Posted by MG9231 > 2013-07-02 19:34 | Report Abuse

kc chong, I can't agree more for what you said. In laxxey partner's saga,I voted for the appointment of new directors, but just can't outnumber those emotional ttb's supporters.Now, after a year, what those emotional supporters get. aren't they invest to improve their financial standing? For me, luckily, i also cashed out some and invest in other company which provide better return than "under-performed" Icap.

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-02 20:50 | Report Abuse

this ctr can fly when ttb is over, juz wait :)

Posted by necro > 2013-07-02 23:42 | Report Abuse

Hahaha....
Aikkkkk INTERGRAX is not PN17 company kah?

Posted by hooi > 2013-07-03 07:30 | Report Abuse

Remember, that behind every stock price is a business with value.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-03 07:37 | Report Abuse

Business with value? What business icap has? It is a closed-end fund man. What a fund should do? To me the management must continuously scout for good company stocks to buy at reasonable price, or better cheap price. But what icap has been doing? Keeping a third to half of the fund as cash as market timing. No good stocks to buy? Just refer to the thread posted by me a few months ago requesting the return forumers made last year.Many of them have made 20%, 30% or even 70% a year. So what happen these few years for icap? Way under-performed the market and many individual investors, including me, not to say compared many other open-end funds which have been doing well.

Posted by mk88 > 2013-07-03 08:39 | Report Abuse

Icap is cash rich now as reported

Is interesting to know what Icap has sold lately??

Padini? Parkson?

Posted by hooi > 2013-07-03 10:13 | Report Abuse

Pharma

Posted by PureBear > 2013-07-03 10:25 | Report Abuse

By keeping Icap cash level near 50%, TTB is making a big bet on his reputation. Two possible scenarios below:

Scenario #1:
Market crash & the Big Bear come within a year. I will be laughing since big opportunities to buy cheap. However, so will TTB.

Scenario #2:
Bull market continue for another year or two. Icap will be very badly underperform KLCI & I will be laughing at TTB for losing his reputation of being Oracle of Bursa. :D

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-03 10:36 | Report Abuse

icap ALREADY underperform for pass few years. opportunities in the future do not change the fact that icap has FAILED to ride on the biggest wave ever since 2009. if ttb so call "biz value" investment works, he wouldn't has missed the fact that value of these businesses were set to rebound strong and high. typical failure when one rely 100% on papers, got lost in figures created by human

another thing is wonder where the interests gone. kucing gemuk ni...

Posted by greatdreamer > 2013-07-03 10:37 | Report Abuse

The best way to judge whether TTB is better than WB is how much investor willing to pay.

Investors have paid more than 1mil to have a lunch with WB. Therefore, to have a lunch with TTB, ideally investor would have to fork out more than 1mil .... lol

Posted by fatinvest > 2013-07-03 10:45 | Report Abuse

TTB is waiting for the big crash, which he thinks is overdue!
Well, he may be right?
Come October will be budget, then the coming UMNO elections( god knows who would challenge Najib ?)

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-03 10:55 | Report Abuse

anyone who said up is right, down also right WITHOUT pin point the exact time. ttb can sing and sing until the time come and claim he is right. hahahahahhahahaaaaa... is he really right? for now, only 1 thing is right for sure, icap FAILED to earn big utilizing 2008 crashed, that's a fact.

obviously, icap investors r paying these kucing gemuk in return for "better than FD" and "hevan safety". well, their $ their choice, they have plenty to spare :D

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-03 10:59 | Report Abuse

The failure of ttb in icap for the last few years is not because he "relies 100% on papers, got lost in figures created by human". What do you mean by that and on what basis do you make such statement?

Tan Teng Boo way outperformed the market or any fund in Bursa for the first couple of years when icap was launched. He invested for icap based on sound fundamental analysis. There is no doubt about that. His problems came when he deviated from the very principle he believes, or claims to use; ie fundamental approach in investing, finding good companies (with economic moats, growth prospect and operating efficiencies such as high ROE, ROIC etc), and buy them at reasonable prices or at a significant margin of safety. All high performance fund managers invest based on numbers, analysis, not gut feeling.

An investor invests based on fundamentals should not try to time the market. timing of market is not a way of investing for a fundamental investor.

I am saying this with some basis; ie from looking at how ttb kept so much cash instead of fully invested for icap.

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-03 11:01 | Report Abuse

kfima also keep a lot of cash, equally dump? ya..ya, of cos not. hahahahahaaaa... not only relies 100% on papers, got lost in figures created by human, also got fooled by formula :D

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-03 11:11 | Report Abuse

Kfima's cash and cash equivalent built up to big amount from the free cash flow from the business. Guess somebody doesn't know what is free cash flow. No formula, just a term in investment. If you don't know, don't argue with me what investing in a company is.

icap is a closed end fund. Kfima is a business concern; ie do business and make money. Can't differentiate?

Posted by fatinvest > 2013-07-03 11:14 | Report Abuse

It is rather strange why TTB changed his strategy.
It's not common for fund manager to try to time the market also!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-03 11:38 | Report Abuse

Posted by fatinvest > Jul 3, 2013 11:14 AM | Report Abuse
It is rather strange why TTB changed his strategy.
It's not common for fund manager to try to time the market also!

My take is fund managers are under tremendous pressure to out-perform the market. This is particularly true for ttb who out-performed the market by a wide margin for the first couple of years. Because of that he claimed that he is better than Warren Buffet. So how to keep up to that? But the fact is it is extremely hard to over-perform the market consistently. Funds managers are part if not the major part of the market themselves. So how to out-perform themselves consistently?

In order to endeavor to keep up to what he had proudly said, he tried to time the market; trying to avoid the downside of stock prices and hence kept huge amount of cash. He encountered his Waterloo.

So the lesson is, it is really hard to time the market. too many factors in play.

Posted by mk88 > 2013-07-03 11:48 | Report Abuse

Now ICap is high on cash and on look out for value stocks
Quite normal for fund managers to reshuffle their portfolios

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-03 11:50 | Report Abuse

icap won't, it has to wait, bcos the risk is now 26 folds also :D

Posted by fatinvest > 2013-07-03 11:53 | Report Abuse

Agree with you KC.
If the market really crash soon TTB will be having his good laugh .
Personally I am impressed by this fund's earlier performance.

Posted by mk88 > 2013-07-03 12:45 | Report Abuse

if TTB knows the market is going to crash, he will park 100% in cash, nil stocks

He didn't, what does it means?

Posted by MG9231 > 2013-07-03 15:22 | Report Abuse

He has missed the US QE due to his timing, if market is crashed, it will take quite a while to recover,but he will at least make $10m from his management fee. In either way, he is laughing all his way to the bank.

Posted by tralala > 2013-07-08 21:53 | Report Abuse

ya, joke... lol.. a measure of a good fund manager is consistency, i.e.: its standard deviation from its yearly target returns. Not how much money they make on average over the past x years... its useless to make 50% in the first 3 years and 0% in the following 3 years...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-09 07:44 | Report Abuse

That is the Archillie's heel of fund management.

Posted by tralala > Jul 8, 2013 09:53 PM | Report Abuse
ya, joke... lol.. a measure of a good fund manager is consistency, i.e.: its standard deviation from its yearly target returns. Not how much money they make on average over the past x years... its useless to make 50% in the first 3 years and 0% in the following 3 years...

TTB did extremely well at the first couple years for icap compared to the market benchmark. A few years prior to the general election, he was afraid of making losses due to the GE fear and hence he kept huge amount of cash. It has proven that was a poor decision. He under-performed the market. But he can still pride himself that in NAV term, he still do better than the market, or his "target return". But is that what an investor wants?

For me, if I invest in a fund, I don't care so much of "consistency" like earning me 10% a year consistently. Why is "its useless to make 50% in the first 3 years and 0% in the following 3 years..."? If you compute the compounded annual return, it is equivalent to 14.5% a year. That is pretty good. Don't you think so? Can you tell me how many of the hundreds of funds available can outperform that?

But the point is how can a fund like icap kept so much asset in cash to time the market, for so many years already? No value stock (TTB claimed himself to be one of the greatest value investors) to invest? Anybody disagree with me for the last 3-4 years there were tons of value stocks to invest based on Greenblatt's magic formula?

Posted by tralala > 2013-07-10 11:42 | Report Abuse

50% and 0% is just an example... what im trying to get at is that people dont like investing in funds that have so much deviation and uncertainty... the fund obviously has some risk management problem

Posted by hooi > 2013-08-22 16:55 | Report Abuse

Bought Icap at 2.34 & 2.35

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-08-22 17:52 | Report Abuse

Hooi, icap give dividend ...

Posted by davors > 2013-08-22 17:53 | Report Abuse

special Dividend 9.5 Sen

Posted by lofan73 > 2013-08-22 18:00 | Report Abuse

first time in blu moon

Posted by KC Loh > 2013-08-22 18:07 | Report Abuse

Fat Cat Tim Buddy hooi.. still icap meh..
i suggest u go buy inari&wa , u ask ur boss at icap to buy 1% inari of total shares , 5% inari warrants, then ur flagship company icap sure untung alot 1, and icap price surely go up till RM 3... at RM 3, go issue more icap share, collect more capital and then buy more inari.. u know what to do la..

sorhai want to teach people how to play share when Icap declared SD! dunno how long Inari's dividend will pay off this one SD! LOL

damn sorhai on the loose trying to gain back credibility! LOL