Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-05 09:03 | Report Abuse

ttb
always under my heart

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-05 09:04 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-05 09:04 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by murali > 2014-12-05 09:04 | Report Abuse

Alien vs predator.....

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-05 09:05 | Report Abuse

tan teng boo can make you rick
tan teng boo can make you poor if you put his advises aside

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 10:21 | Report Abuse

Deepmarine: you have my vote.

My view is that TTB repeatedly pointed out a very simple and typical behavior of share market. But the timing is somehow not on his side yet although the historical trend is. Because of this many people ridicule him.

Do you agree that when fingers point to someone, there are always three point back to ourselves? 3>2, therefore when I say TTB is lousy, in fact I am lousier than him. Unfortunately I and many others do not realize that.

I listen to both sides and many sides of voices and concile them into data bank which can be used as reference when making own judgement.

Posted by murali > 2014-12-05 10:26 | Report Abuse

Just wonder, Bsngpg, do you invest a lot in mutual funds? Do you know TTB personally?

Posted by murali > 2014-12-05 10:27 | Report Abuse

How old are you too? More than 60 years old?

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 10:33 | Report Abuse

Hi Mr Deepmarine: I agree that if following TTB advice, we may not make big money from the last couple years but at least we will not broke. And if anybody want to play safe as TTB advocates, it is fine. You may have lesser return than the broad market for the moment, but at the same time you earn a bigger chance to win big in the upcoming bear. It is a game base on your own appetite. We live in a free mkt, we should not be forced or coerced to see things in one angle only. The world is created with plentiful colors.

Posted by murali > 2014-12-05 10:38 | Report Abuse

You may continue to talk like a saint as I think you may not even hold 100 shares of Icap....

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 11:08 | Report Abuse

Mr DeepMarine: although I respect and want to support your courage to voice out your strong support to Mr TTB in the anti-TTB atmosphere, there are few areas I have to say I disagree with you.

You said: "only mr tan can lead us lead icap, 4Dec 9.41pm". I afraid I totally cannot agree with you on this stm. There are higher mountains after the highest mountain.

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 11:14 | Report Abuse

Posted by deepmarine > Dec 5, 2014 09:05 AM | Report Abuse

tan teng boo can make you rick
tan teng boo can make you poor if you put his advises aside.
......................................................

Hi Mr DeepMarine: I also cannot agree with your word "CAN". In this aspect, I see him doing his job, giving his advice free of charge but I do not agree that he can make me rich or poor. If it is so simple, there is no beggar on the streets already.

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 11:22 | Report Abuse

Mr. KL Lim: I agree with you this time despite that I did not agree with you many times, but I strongly believe you respect disagreement, don't you? I would express my deepest respect to your good intention in writing many comments. You have my respect although i have many contradict opinions with yours. Nice to meet you. Thks.

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 11:26 | Report Abuse

If you do not use "ass" in your writing to me, I would be more happy and much appreciated.

Posted by klsetitan > 2014-12-05 11:36 | Report Abuse

give advise for free? mana ade free? 7m a yr for "dont invest, market will crash (when? errrr.. coming...)
TTB investment style for the past 4-5 yrs is like "put ur money in bank". Is it true that there are really nothing to invest for the past 4-5yrs? Did TTB miss the best chance to invest post 2008/09? Everyone knows market has its up and down, but as an investment fund is it worth to NOT doing anything and wait to invest only after market crash. Is investment only viable post crash? If we cannot time the crash is it ok to wait for the crash then invest even though the crash comes every 5,10,20yrs? For a long term fund, is our aim is to avoid the crash only? Shareholders have to make their own conclusion.

Posted by Kevin Wong > 2014-12-05 11:54 | Report Abuse

kls..., free only if not a icap investor, lol!

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 11:55 | Report Abuse

When I said FOC, I said it from the view of a public reader from newspaper or net. And in fact he commented this in a public news conference.

As a small shareholders I can understand the frustration seeing the bull roars for years but the highly expected TTB took an opposite strategy and missed the north boat. What a pity shareholders.

We can and should voice out our frustrations freely and maybe finding a way to vote him out. But we never ever launch personal attack on him, which will lower down the overall standard of our community(mr klsetitan's latest comment is not included). The last sentence is the centric point of my many comments for weeks on Icap.

Posted by murali > 2014-12-05 13:44 | Report Abuse

As a non shareholder,bsngpg sees ttb as a kind man who gives free advice every year without fail since 2010 (market is going to crash market is going crash....) while shareholders like us see ttb is doing nothing but sucking on our cash in FD....while shouting market is going to crash market is going to crash.......

Posted by murali > 2014-12-05 13:46 | Report Abuse

Bsngpg is enjoying free advice at our expenses and somemore rubbing salt on our wounds....

Posted by Cipta > 2014-12-05 14:05 | Report Abuse

how is the pay structure of I Cap to Capital Dynamics?

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-05 15:48 | Report Abuse

Mr Lim: From the way one writes, we can more or less judge how far he can go. Mr Lim, as I said before that I have lot of different views with you but judging from the content of your many writings, you are certainly know much more things than I do. Kudos. Thks.

Posted by Kevin Wong > 2014-12-05 16:50 | Report Abuse

WOW, how to respond...i'm truly humbled!

Posted by Alex Chan > 2014-12-05 16:56 | Report Abuse

Actually TTB missed the entire bull market for 4 years,,,LOL

overated...icapital made only 2 mil last year

Posted by Alex Chan > 2014-12-05 16:58 | Report Abuse

any tom dick and harry can pick winners from a market crash

Posted by bcllct > 2014-12-05 17:06 | Report Abuse

The major issue with ttb is he fails to do anything constructive to narrow the discount of ICAP. In this respect indeed the whole of ICAP board should take the major blame for not doing anything at all. It is appalling!

Posted by bcllct > 2014-12-05 17:21 | Report Abuse

ICAP IPO prospectus has a section on managing discounts which detailed specific corrective actions that include share buy back, liquidation, managed distribution etc. Yet the board of directors sit still and do nothing, while ttb say that share buy back is not applicable to close end funds! it is ridiculous that keeping cash in bank earning a net income of 1.5%(after paying 1.5% for fee) can be a better option than buying ICAP share at 20% discount! and TTB is saying that ICAP will be able to compound at 15% per annum ! if true than the buy back share will worth a lot more.

Posted by 48kiasu > 2014-12-05 20:48 | Report Abuse

noob/common question: this stock can buy?

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-06 23:41 | Report Abuse

just buy in. We have the best top fund manager.

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-06 23:41 | Report Abuse

remember to vote for ttb

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-07 09:23 | Report Abuse

DeepMarine: I will surely vote for him and drive my friends to AGM free of charge to vote for him. He may not be the best, but at least he is clear and rationale enough to judge his biz(the mkt). A person who knows what is he doing with rationale is much better than many already.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-12-07 09:52 | Report Abuse

The puzzle of deep discount of icap’s share price to its NAV is solved. Human behaviour is strange. Hero worshipping is so deeply entrenched even in investment in the stock market despite all the clear evidences to the contrary.

Yeah, no point to hope for the closing of the gap of share price of icap and its NAV. It may be better to move on.

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-12-07 12:27 | Report Abuse

All flowers will naturally blossom except the one which refuses to do so on its own Will...

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-07 12:30 | Report Abuse

百花齐放:比喻同一事情的不同做法、同一内容的不同形式或同一类东西的不同品种丰富繁多。

Lim said: “….but the bad thing is he is self-serving”

May I ask : base on which criteria you judged that he is self-serving. You(27.04%) may disagree with his strategy and performance of the fund, but don’t you agree that at latest as at now there are 72.96% do not think like you that he is self-serving.

Lim said:” If you simply idol him….”.

May I ask : why are we not allow to support his way of mgt, strategy and the performance of the fund ? Why should we be labelled as hero worshipping/idolization when we stick to what we believe? With the same logic and just make a switch on your perspective, don’t you think that you are practicing what you are commenting now where you are “idolizing” yourself now?
That is what I mean that 3 fingers point toward ourselves when we point 2 out.

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-07 12:36 | Report Abuse

Mr. Lim: You are well respected because you are willing to spend your precious time to response and share your opinions with others although some may not agree with your points. Obviously I disagree with your points but I do respect you. Thks, Mr Lim.

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-12-07 13:12 | Report Abuse

it takes more than half a century or longer than that to bring a dynasty down. What is going to the company? Nothing much will change in Short term.

It really moves my heart to see a small group of students on the street sometimes around the globe fighting on their own...i will be so proud if one of them is my own. They represent a small minority as well.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-12-07 18:58 | Report Abuse

Yeah, TTB has 73% support. There is no way anybody can go against him for maximising shareholder value. The majority shareholders themselves are happy that their investment in icap way underperformed the market for the last five years. So as a minority, you just have to accept that. It is a democratic country. Minority just have to shut up.

That explains why TTB is so confident that there is no way anybody can remove him as a fund manager, even though he has done nothing for years and earning fat fees. Whatever he says is enshrined in stones. You try to raise any dissent views, you will be booed in the meeting, asked to shout up and get lost. He simply doesn’t have to answer nothing. That is why he becomes so arrogant. You are the minority, and you just have to accept it.

That is why TTB is so confident that even he does nothing and collecting fat fees every year, the majority shareholders will be laughing too. So why not concentrate on his global funds which he can earn higher fees, plus the high fees in icap, and having to do nothing?

Wolves are coming. Yes, definitely, he was right for the last 5 years. The wolves will come one day and he will be right. Meanwhile just relax and earn more fees. No worry, nobody dares to question me.

This is a poison pill. You can’t do anything. Accept your fate, if you choose to. Well, the majority is happy about it, why not you?

Posted by Ntpboon > 2014-12-07 19:20 | Report Abuse

Relax, just for laugh........................

股民推我上神台，
上了神台下不来。
推测股灾有几载？
我收现金你吃斋！

Posted by ks55 > 2014-12-07 20:58 | Report Abuse

Typical example of self-enrichment at the expense of investor.
Is he still competent to manage icap?
Is he fit?
Is he proper fund manager?
Is it ethical for him to suck and keep on sucking icap investor?
If he is no more a fit and proper person to run icap, what should you do?

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-12-07 21:42 | Report Abuse

Why TTB has confidence of simple majority at least? it is because those who are disagree will never be a shareholder at the first place Or they have sold off after a disappointing year.

So what happens next years? Same. Those who are disappointed will sell off and Those who has false hope will Buy in.

So you will see at any point of time, the management will have simple majority as those who disagree has left.

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-07 22:02 | Report Abuse

Stock: bingo! You know the game very well.

Posted by bsngpg > 2014-12-07 22:15 | Report Abuse

Mr Lim: you strike bingo too. ＂我写的东西跟ttb的为人没有关系” I have no comment on TTB personalty.

我鼔吹百花齐放、却绝对不赞同傲慢自大。

Posted by bcllct > 2014-12-07 22:25 | Report Abuse

I can not understand why so many(it appears that the majority!) just simply state that they support ttb! To me it is so crystal clear that the persistent discount to NAV is critical to all ICAP shareholder and must be dealt with and seen to be dealt with! as others had pointed out that ICAP IPO prospectus had specific section detailing various possible corrective actions. Yet TTB and the Board simply sit there and do nothing.
Myself and a few others had asked him to consider about share buy back(at substantial discount to NAV)which in fact is one of the possible action mentioned in the IPO prospectus itself. Yet he just simply say share buy back will not work for ICAP! can some one who is supporting him explains how share buy back at 20% discount to NAV is a lesser option than keeping in bank earning 1.5% net interest??

Posted by bcllct > 2014-12-07 22:41 | Report Abuse

Let me also point out another fact.
In every annual report ICAP fund performance is always compared to that of KLCI index which seem logical. BUT the comparison did not correct for the dividend of KLCI stocks. In effect this is over reporting ICAP's performance by about 3%!
I remember in one of the ICAP AGM a few years ago someone pointed out this to him yet no changes was made to this subsequently.

Posted by bcllct > 2014-12-07 23:47 | Report Abuse

Yet another thing I feel not quite right is regarding the new dual listed fund which TTB recently provided more details during the road show.
This is regarding performance fees. Let me says it out right that I had no issue with performance fees in general.
But in this case I had 2 issues with it.
The first being how the performance is calculated. The fund manager must clear two hurdles to earn a 20% performance fees, the 2 hurdles are : 1) yearly performance of 6% and 2) compound return of 6% per annum. The second hurdle appear to safe guard the shareholders.
But the devil is in the details. An example will illustrate. Assume the par value is RM1 per share. Say at the end of 1st year the NAV become RM1.3( i.e. 30% increase), hence the fund manger get a performance fee of 20% X(30%-6%)=4.8%(on top of the regular 1.5% management fees).Nobidy will complain I guess since the fund manager did a good job.
Let us further assume that at the end of 2nd year the NAV become 90 sen (due mainly to a major market correction).The fund manager get zero performance fee( still get the 1.5% fee) as it fails both hurdles. No problem here again.
The market subsequently rebounded strongly and at the end of 3rd year the NAV is back to RM1.30. Do you think the fund manager deserves a performance fee?? if you think like me than the answer is no! since the NAV just get back to what it was 2 years ago,and the fund manager was already rewarded with a 4.8% fee then. But the way the performance fee was calculated the fund manager actually will get a performance fee, because it meet the yearly hurdle of 6% since NAV increased from 90sen to RM1.30 or 44.4% > 6%. For the 2nd hurdle 6% compound for 3 years is 19.1% and since the NAV is at 1.30 or 30% >19.1% so the 2nd hurdle was also met. So the fund manger will get a performance fee of 20% X ( 44.4%-6%) = 7.68% !
Let me confirmed that i did not misunderstood the performance fee calculation that was presented by ttb because I specifically asked him about it. Let me also says that the above scenario is not unlikely events. In any case it does not appear right that performance fees was charge a second time when the performance did not exceed the previous high.
The mind boggling part is that TTB mentioned that the consultant they engaged says that their performance fee calculation was the toughest in the industry !!?? What do you say ??

The second thing about the performance fee which i feel not quite right is that the current ICAP.biz close end fund has no management fee!( it only charges the 1.5% management fee). ttb mentioned that this dual listed fund is mainly for the benefits of current ICAP share holders, if so i feel it should stick with the same fee system and not charge additional. This will be worse if he is thinking of using the cuurent ICAP cash for this dual listed fund. If so the current ICAP shareholder will be paying a higher fee in the new dual listed fund. this dos not seem right especially ttb had told the shareholders that it is better to set up a new vehicle for global investing instead of changing ICAP's charter to allow for global investing. Yet by setting a new dual listed fund the sharehlders will now hd to pay additional performance fee!

so much for TTB supporters.

Posted by ykloh > 2014-12-07 23:52 | Report Abuse

share buy back will reduce fund's assets and reduce his fees.

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-12-08 01:49 | Report Abuse

Dear friend, the fund set up is for Public Education and Investing. The target market is also Public.

Now Not many people wants to Buy. In fact the discount shows that the growing High Public turnover is having the negative impact on share price.

Where is the face of management if they are to Buy back their own shares since Nobody wants to Buy as their set up is for Public Education and Investing?

It will be a laughing stock if management decides for share buyback.

They should ask the Public what is Our Concern.

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-08 10:42 | Report Abuse

Uncle Tan will have the finest resolution

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-08 10:42 | Report Abuse

Top Fund Manager is leading Icap towards another success

Posted by deepmarine > 2014-12-08 10:43 | Report Abuse

We wish you a merry christmas

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-12-08 11:09 | Report Abuse

Dual listing is just and only gimmick of shameless fund manager to bring his die hard supporters to holland.
1. Just look at his performance of his icap global fund and icap international fund from day of its inception. What is the return? If one to invest locally in last couple of years, he can easily beat him.
2.the bigger the fund ,the better, he get more fees .
3. A small timers operates buy and sell in foreign countries involve higher brokerage fees(more than 1% per transaction) and forex changes, is it worth the effort ?

His current immediate task with the board of directors is to deploy ways to close the gap of icap NAV and it's share price. But he try to blur his supporters attention.