Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-09 12:24 | Report Abuse

ooo i also just saw the news on The Star. Quite interesting once you look more into it. COL kept buying icap shares over the years to maintain as a major shareholder and yet icap is still selling at a discount to the NAV. Makes you wonder huh?

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-09 12:40 | Report Abuse

icap is a collective investment scheme meant for small retail investors so that they can have the service of a professional fund manager. COL is destroying this.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-09 12:50 | Report Abuse

FlyHigh123, you are right. Something is fishy here.

Posted by coffeehehe > 2019-10-09 13:37 | Report Abuse

Hahaha is like eating chau tofu, keep on complaining it's smelly but still buy so much to eat...icap shares must be very tasty, otherwise why COL keeps buying??

Posted by urhen122 > 2019-10-09 13:51 | Report Abuse

The star news:

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2019/10/09/city-of-londons-stake-in-icapitalbiz-above-20-limit


This Mr London very arrogant leh, they are disregarding Malaysian laws

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-09 14:00 | Report Abuse

coffeehehe, haha your analogy is spot on.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-09 14:04 | Report Abuse

In the recent AGM, Tan Teng Boo showed that ICAP's performance is better than other CEFs.

Posted by FreeStyle > 2019-10-09 14:09 | Report Abuse

@ahhuat56

i just bought icap. mind to share more about City of London? are they breaking Malaysian law? what will happen to icap?

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-09 14:41 | Report Abuse

COL is a fund manager based in London. Their focus is to invest in or attack CEFs. They were behind the winding up of Malaysia's first closed-end fund - Amanah Millenia Fund about 10 years ago. SC's guideline on CEF stated that a single shareholder cannot hold more than 20% of a CEF's shares. In this case, COL has breached the SC's guideline. Hopefully, SC will take the appropriate action to uphold Malaysia's law.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-09 14:50 | Report Abuse

wah sad lo like that. According to my understanding, CEFs are an avenue for novice investors have their money handled by professionals. If COL closed up another CEF, then Malaysia is really regressing backwards rather than pushing forward. Got Shared Prosperity Vision 2030 also useless la

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 18:03 | Report Abuse

London is helping the novice investors because by winding up ICap, the novice investors make MORE money. I am a novice investor and surely will thank London if London help to wind up ICap next year.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 18:09 | Report Abuse

London show novice investors what shares to buy by keep on buying the shares London want novice investors like me to buy and make money.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-09 18:10 | Report Abuse

Ahbah,

The last round in 2018, london came & fight but lost the battle despite they are the largest shareholder.

If london need to win, they must solicit & get support from the large minority independent shareholder loh...!!

TTB had brain wash alot of minority & independent shareholders todate loh, it is a tough battle to wind up loh...!!

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 18:18 | Report Abuse

Thanks for your support, I have greatest respect for U, Sir.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-09 18:47 | Report Abuse

Ahbah, do you still support London to break the law of Malaysia ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 22:22 | Report Abuse

No. I no support any law breaker.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 22:41 | Report Abuse

London may have not follow the SC's guidelines and, if so, London got to do it right.

The Star reported "it appears".

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 22:58 | Report Abuse

The shares are held as follows:-
(1) DB (Malaysia) Nominee (Asing) Sdn Bhd - Favour: The Bank of New York Mellon - 24, 229,000;
(2) HSBC Nominees (Asing) Sdn Bhd - Favour: Northern Trust - 2,892,800; and
(3) Cartaban Nominees (Asing) Sdn Bhd - Favour: RBC - 989,200.

It appears London buy ICap for 3 shareholders and no one single shareholder hold more than 20%. Please see the above 3 shareholders for further info.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 23:00 | Report Abuse

Remarks:
The shares are held as follows:-(1) DB (Malaysia) Nominee (Asing) Sdn Bhd -Favour: The Bank of New York Mellon - 24, 229,000;(2) HSBC Nominees (Asing) SdnBhd - Favour: Northern Trust - 2,892,800; and(3) Cartaban Nominees (Asing) SdnBhd - Favour: RBC - 989,200.You are advised to read the entire contents of the announcement or attachment.To read the entire contents of the announcement or attachment, please accessthe Bursa website at http://www.bursamalaysia.com

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 23:04 | Report Abuse

ahhuat56, now U got understand what I said above ?

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-09 23:13 | Report Abuse

a poor manager who survives using warren buffett and charlie mungers quotes to mask his poor investing skills. Yet like to show he is full of investing wisdom. full stop.

such manager is ranked lower than a poor manager. a snake oil salesman at best.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-09 23:13 | Report Abuse

All novice investors like me can make easy money by just buying the shares which London is buying.

We all must thank London for leading us. Thank you London.

London is a global, professional, expert money manager, giving free service and easy money to novice investors.

Posted by fong7 > 2019-10-10 01:22 | Report Abuse

this news quite obviously wrote by people sided ICAP management team.
yes, ICAP's long term performance was good. However, for those who followed closely to ICAP's holding shares, we understand that it did some great choice in early years, especially taking advantage of the previous financial crisis. BUT, a BIG BUT, TTB has been once again "willing" to take on another round of financial crisis. He has been officially WAITING for it to happen. This is a HUGE PROBLEM in investing. Buffett always warn us about the risk of timing the market, and TTB is doing exactly it. He has been very stubborn on Parkson, which doesn't make sense. Buffett sells bad businesses many times, long term doesn't mean stubborn. TTB choose to hold tremendous ratio of cash for the past 5 years, while watching world economy moving in great pace and stability even with current US-China trade war. But TTB still, stubbornly, WAITING for his optimistic GREAT OPPORTUNITY, that is, SIMPLY, another financial crisis to come. Final word, don't expect similar good results in ICAP for the next 5 or 10 years. Its current long term performance was, almost achieved by luck (of picking up stocks after a fatal financial crisis).

Posted by FreeStyle > 2019-10-10 08:27 | Report Abuse

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/city-london-open-market-purchase-icapitalbiz-breached-scs-guidelines

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-10 09:23 | Report Abuse

Ahbah, if London winds up ICAP, I get short-term gain, great! but where else to invest? I got burned buying UTs. U can recommend ah? U said follow London, how?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 09:30 | Report Abuse

London already show-eddd clearly where to invest. U still no see meh ?

London keep on buying ICap non stop. U also keep on buying Icap non stop lah until Icap got wind up lah.

Now U got it ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 10:12 | Report Abuse

Parkson ... a melting ice, the longer we hold it, the faster it melts, shrinks n disappears lah.

Now, all shoppers got global online shopping non stop.

Posted by ahteck85 > 2019-10-10 11:14 | Report Abuse

Ahbab, if brick and mortar shops are dead-ducks, why did Alibaba and Amazon set-up/acquire physical stores? Why did George Quek from BreadTalk take a major stake in Taiwan department store chain Pacific Sogo recently? Do you know what is omnichannel strategy? Do you think the online retailers like Qoo10 are even profitable to start with? You are merely citing obvious trends with no substantial knowledge about the industry and the forces around it. If all shoppers are shopping online non-stop, Mid-Valley and Pavilion should be empty!

There are always two-sides to a coin. We can measure icap performance using NAV and price, with dividend and without dividend and across different time horizon. It is easy for London or ICAP to showcase a chart that favors their argument. Who is more convincing? The answer is simple - look at the AGM results. The shareholders are not stupid and they can vote against the fund manager. BUT, they know ICAP's performance and still vote for Tan Teng Boo. You can say that they are brainwashed, but to do that for 5 years (according to fong7)? The fact is simple, investors themselves are also not comfortable with the macro outlook and not willing to see the fund take on too much exposure. It is so easy to talk with hind-side bias about past performance but when shit happens, it is the investors that suffer, not the keyboard warriors here. Tan Teng Boo's recent performance may not be wonderful, but at least, he is more reliable than many of the "experts" here.

Posted by iPilot50 > 2019-10-10 11:18 | Report Abuse

I have been holding iCapital stock for years and I also attended a few of TTB's AGM.

I was drawn by the recent news about iCapital to take a look at i3investor. I decided to give my 2 cents since iCapital has drawn numerous criticisms.

To note, I am not a full time investor(I actually have a job outside investing), but I think it is unfair to iCapital to keep making comparisons between TTB and Buffett. Now, it is true that TTB drew his inspirations as well as his investing philosophy from Buffett and more notably Benjamin Graham, the founder of Value Investing, TTB has said that developing market has certain nuances that makes it impossible to fully apply the value investing methods. Therefore, it makes sense to diverge somewhat from those teachings but still incorporate key ideas into your investing philosophy to suit the market that you invest. And regardless, Buffett and Munger are both wise beyond their years and you'll be out of your mind if you do not heed their advice and/or teachings.

Another thing is some people's arguments revolve around the logic of Buffett is the god of investing, TTB is following his advice and thus TTB must make money since he abides Buffett's teachings. Now, Buffett might seem like a genius investor but even he had lost BILLIONS of dollars before. He's not immune to market movements and sentiments. He might lack doing market research and due diligence, or he just made a lapse in judgement. Even TTB hasn't lost billions of dollars before. iCapital is not growing like 200% percent a year does not mean that TTB is not making money for investors.

Moreover, a popular argument is that he does not used up the cash to make investments and just put money to waste. Everyone has their own investment style so I cannot judge too much. But if you think carefully, what's the alternative to not investing in stocks? What most funds would do is that they will invest in safe assets like bonds. But the problem in investing in bonds is twofold. One is that the bond market in Malaysia is still considered nascent and weak. Two is that if you decide to invest in bonds, it will be harder to pull out your money to make other stock investments which you think plausible in a moment's notice, since bonds are slightly more illiquid compared to cash.

Another point is that iCapital stands by its long-term capital appreciation investment strategy, which means that it does not withdraw investments if it thinks that losses are temporary and it still believe in the fundamentals of the company. Therefore, they would hold the company stocks for months to years. It is not the same with short or medium term trading strategies where you buy the company when the market is supporting the company and then drop it when you think it's not supporting it. Whether the strategy works or not it really depends on luck but they did their due diligence amidst the data that they have, and that in itself is laudable.

Lastly, people seem to not understand that iCapital is handling millions of ringgit, which is a huge burden. I work in an industry where I never had the chance to hold millions in my hands but even in my case handling a few thousands a month can already be considered taxing when I need to support my family. If I give you a million ringgit to invest and ask you to not lose money in the long run, would you have confidence to say that you are able to beat the market?

So sometimes I think if you want to give your opinion, you look more deeply into the company, compare it with other companies first before you make your judgement whether iCapital is really just toying investors or they are actually doing their best with the money that they are handling. Besides it doesn't hurt that TTB often gives his outlook on the economy, which is sensible most times and that he truly resonates with the plight of Malaysians.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-10 11:21 | Report Abuse

wow it looks like a warzone here lol.... oh on abah's point so flawed lol... it's like he's indirectly asking us to buy icap non-stop. Buy lo buy lo lol

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-10 12:34 | Report Abuse

yaloh..keep asking novice investors to follow London to buy more non-stop...sure expect the NAV to go higher and higher to gain more.... mean TTB doing a fine job but many here complain he is lousy manager, masking his poor investing skills with quotes from Buffett, etc. Hmmm....I smell something fishy here...

Ahbah, u not answered my Q, if ICAP close shop, where else for small fry investors like me invest?? Im not looking for short-term gain. Especially when market so bearish. Seem like London is helping themselves then small fry like us.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 14:24 | Report Abuse

Our money is always invested all the times. Small fry investors are also always invested lah all the times. If U put your money in saving accounts, so U are investing in saving accounts. If U put your money in ICap, so U are investing in ICap lah.

If U no want short term gain, never mind lah, U can give your short term gain to others.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 14:29 | Report Abuse

Small fry investors can always invest anywhere they like.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-10 15:57 | Report Abuse

Ahbah, your statement is contradictory, how can small fry investors always invest and can invest anywhere they like...u sound like a big time investor!

Small fry like me has very limit resources, must be careful with our hard-earned $$ and choose wisely, ...I think investing in ICAP is not bad, especially in bearish market like now, can still give 9% compound return over 15 yrs. 9% compound return for another 20 years is hell lots of money, can someone do the maths plzzzz...why rock the boat??

U say putting $$ in savings account is also investing....did I hear u wrongly or u are joking!! only 1-2%, maybe 0% later or even have to pay the bank to put $$ the future - negative interest rate, have u heard? Banks have been imposing fees for their "services" and may do the same for maintaining savings accounts for customers in the future....pls don't simply advise..

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:01 | Report Abuse

I say investing in ICap now is EXCELLENT, not just not bad lah.

If ICap gulong tikar next year, U n I can make more than 30% return in 1 yr.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:11 | Report Abuse

Long term investment of 5 yrs in saving account far outperformed long term investment in Parkson ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:17 | Report Abuse

Long term investment of 3 yrs in our saving account also far outperformed our long term investment in our KLCI mkt ?

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-10 17:18 | Report Abuse

are you ahbah or ahnyah? are you London in disguise ? you know they buy with discount, they want to sell at premium. So are you ahbah or ahnyah ? Who are you really ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:22 | Report Abuse

I already got said above I am a novice investor lah.

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-10 17:25 | Report Abuse

Hardly see defender of ttb here...internal staff of icap ah

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-10 17:27 | Report Abuse

Ipilot50,jeydan89 n ahhuat56 good try..

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:29 | Report Abuse

We are all defender of our best return on our hard earn money in ICap.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:35 | Report Abuse

50, 89, 56, ttb, ahbah, London n many others can get a return of about 30% p.a. if they buy ICap now n gulong tikar ICap next year ?

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-10 17:37 | Report Abuse

CharlesT, ahbah, cheoky, fong7..........all adik beradik from London? lol

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-10 17:38 | Report Abuse

So now only 2 group here ah...london vc ttb?? Lol

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:39 | Report Abuse

Internal staff of ICap also can make a return of about 30% p.a. on their hard earn money if they also buy ICap now n help to gulong tikar ICap next year.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-10 17:40 | Report Abuse

CharlesT you use google traslate is it ? what time is London now ? You should be working now

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-10 17:41 | Report Abuse

Ask ttb to let otb to manage some of the funds....aiyo

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-10 17:46 | Report Abuse

Our fd or saving investment for the last 3 years far outperform our investment in our Bursa ?

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-10 17:49 | Report Abuse

Ask TTB to let charlesT manage loh,,f not happy..or ask otb aka..orong tak berupaya haha!!