Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 10:39 | Report Abuse

Msia is also doing very good coz we are better than Zimbakwe?

The same mentality here..but at least u can be happy in yr life....very simple guy with little expectation...

Do u expect TTB , an established FM to only produce this result?

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 10:41 | Report Abuse

Dont insult TTB lah...I believe he can do much better than this

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 10:42 | Report Abuse

FYI 15 years ago i doubt if many here ever heard abt OTB.......

TTB oredi very very famous 15 years ago...

so what now?

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 10:44 | Report Abuse

If TTB dares to go thru past comments here since 2013 he will cry....

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 10:45 | Report Abuse

Alternately he can claim all those are London people....bad intentions to spoil his good name...

Then he can continue to be a happy bear

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-17 10:54 | Report Abuse

Bear or no bear, holding our cash 5 to 7 long years without paying any dividend is unforgiveable loh....!!

Viva London.....!!

Death to Icap....!!

Kickout TTB....!!

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 10:56 | Report Abuse

If u cant perform while others can what shall u do?

To learn fm them?

Or to keep telling yrself u r different u r value investor u believe in long term investment n u wanna wait for mkt crash klci below 1000?

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 10:57 | Report Abuse

Or keep saying u r very good u perform better than klci or BAT??

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 10:58 | Report Abuse

ttb fired heavy artillery at Boustead and Parkson and did he win handsomely ?

Fortunately, he fired some small bullets but caught a big fat bull in Padini !

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-17 10:59 | Report Abuse

Of course anybody can do that when u earn fat fees of Rm 8m to rm 10m pa and just put everything to fd for damn 6 years loh...!!

This TTB rubbish investor loh....!!


Posted by CharlesT > Oct 17, 2019 10:56 AM | Report Abuse

If u cant perform while others can what shall u do?

To learn fm them?

Or to keep telling yrself u r different u r value investor u believe in long term investment n u wanna wait for mkt crash klci below 1000?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-17 11:03 | Report Abuse

LETS PUT UP THE WELCOME SIGN FOR OUR SAVIOR CITY OF LONDON LOH...!!

WE NEED TO SUPPORT CITY OF LONDON RIGHT NOW LOH...!!

LONDON WILL TAKE US ALL OUT FROM EVIL TTB MAH...!!

Posted by stockraider > Oct 17, 2019 10:32 AM | Report Abuse X

Lets start a campaign to support "London " our savior from this dishonest TTB loh....!!

OBJECTIVE

1. TO VOTE OUT EXISTING ICAP DIRECTORS, WHO SIDED WITH TTB AND NOT DOING ITS JOB.
2. TO APPOINT LONDON ICAP REPRESENTATIVE DIRECTOR, WHO CAN OVER SEE DISSOLUTION OF ICAP.
3. TO GET ICAP TO PAY DIVIDEND 1ST, B4 CAPITAL REPAYMENT THRU LIQUIDATION.
4. TO DISSOLVE ICAP SINCE IT IS UNDER PERFORMING AND JUST PUTTING MONIES IN FIXED DEPOSITS.
5. TO KICK OUT TTB, WHO ARE JUST LOOKING AT HIS INTEREST INSTEAD OF SHAREHOLDERS.

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 11:08 | Report Abuse

Assuming funds can only be dissolved 5 years later n not 2020...

Will ttb continue to put yr money in fd while waiting for klci to crash below 1000...

He has been waiting since 2012...do u think this day will come eventually??

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 11:16 | Report Abuse

Even a dead clock can call the correct time twice in a day !

Posted by waren > 2019-10-17 12:13 | Report Abuse

who is OTB ?

Posted by ahteck85 > 2019-10-17 13:19 | Report Abuse

CharlesT, you think the market is not expensive? At least TTB follows the investment guideline set in the prospectus. OTB's investment style is not my cup of coffee and I hope TTB steers clear of it.

COL - a saviour? More like vultures. If they can get back NAV for their current investment, they will take the money and never look back. To think you look so highly on them.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 13:40 | Report Abuse

Mkt investors are vultures looking for food in the mkt or mkt investors are kind philanthropists giving their hard earned precious money in the mkt and paying handsome fee for putting their money in the bank ?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2019-10-17 13:43 | Report Abuse

Posted by ahbah > Oct 17, 2019 1:40 PM | Report Abuse

Mkt investors are vultures looking for food in the mkt or mkt investors are kind philanthropists giving their hard earned precious money in the mkt and paying handsome fee for putting their money in the bank ?

AHBAH CALLING AHBAH

AIYOO WHY YOU WASTE PRECIOUS TIME HERE

YOU WILL ONLY EARN A LITTLE TO EAT CHEAP NASI LEMAK FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE HERE

BETTER SELL AND GO BUY DIGITAL ECONOMY STOCK LIKE NETX

BETTER SELL ICAP FAST AND FASTER BUY NETX BEFORE BULL RUN AWAY!!!

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 13:44 | Report Abuse

I am a poor kampong kid and a novice investor and would like to get back NAV for my current investment. Please no laugh at me lah.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2019-10-17 13:47 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 13:51 | Report Abuse

Hmm...better stick to icap io following calvin to buy netx..

Posted by calvintaneng > 2019-10-17 13:55 | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > Oct 17, 2019 1:51 PM | Report Abuse

Hmm...better stick to icap io following calvin to buy netx..

OK AHBAH

FRAME THESE WORDS OF CHARLEST

TODAY IS 17TH OCTOBER 2019

ICAP IS RM2.42

NETX IS 2.5 SEN

SEE IN 3 MONTHS, 6 MONTHS & 1 YEAR INTERVAL

HOW MANY PER CENT EACH HAS GONE UP OR GONE DOWN

CALVIN CALL UPON EVERYONE IN ICAP FORUM TO BEAR WITNESS

IS CALVIN CHUN CHUN ON NETX BUY CALL OR NOT

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-17 13:55 | Report Abuse

Ahteck85 alternately u can sell yr icap n put into fd n countdown with ttb for mkt crash klci below 1000...

It may take years or it may never come..

But at least u get yr fd interest for real...

If klci drops below 1000 then u uplift yr n buy icap...

Sounds good right?

Posted by Armada An Quantum Leap Stock In 2019/2020 > 2019-10-17 14:06 | Report Abuse

Hahaha TTB
the old zinger, always spice .

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 14:12 | Report Abuse

ok, thanks, I will put some money in Netx.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2019-10-17 14:20 | Report Abuse

Posted by ahbah > Oct 17, 2019 2:12 PM | Report Abuse

ok, thanks, I will put some money in Netx.

Good, Calvin very happy for ahbah

This is how you should buy

Queue at 2 sen buy today and tomorrow

Watch Netx carefully

If can still get at 2 sen you very lucky

If cannot then buy some at 2.5 sen

You must then hold tight till Announcement of Job Award

Price will shoot up

Can sell some if you want. But don't sell all.
Keep some for higher prices

Higher prices will come when NETX annouce 2 or more good quarterly earnings

All these yet ahead in the bright future

SO HOLD TIGHT

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 14:31 | Report Abuse

With your blessing, all can make money following your calls.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-17 15:12 | Report Abuse

To be a licensed fund manager, one has to pass SC's exams and report to SC frequently. This is how SC protect the man in the street on their investments. The fact that SC renews a fund manager's license every year itself is already a testimony to the integrity and professionalism of the fund manager.

Do you invest with a licensed fund manager or do you follow the advice of people who are not fit or qualified for SC to grant them a fund manager licence and can only come to forums like this to brag about themselves (without proof) and con naive investors ? If you are smart, I am sure you know how to choose.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-10-17 15:19 | Report Abuse

Using vulgar language and obscene words to attack others just show that the person has no solid arguments to support his points. Therefore, out of desperation, choose to degrade himself.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 16:15 | Report Abuse

I always got the highest respect for licensed fund manager. If a fun manager want to put our money in the bank, he can always advise us to do so and we can always follow his advice and do so lah. Just return the NAV to novice investors like ahbah who will then put their money in the bank.

Posted by soaring > 2019-10-17 16:30 | Report Abuse

abbah, just wondering, why putting money in the bank is not good for the fund?

Posted by iPilot50 > 2019-10-17 16:33 | Report Abuse

I can't believe that this discussion is still going on. The oppositions keep using the same arguments again and again. What I mean is if you already made your point, I'm not sure what's the benefit of staying here to comment more when you could have gone elsewhere to debate.

Nonetheless since I'm free, I might as well do some research and comment for the people here.

First to clarify is that from my experience attending iCapital's AGMs, I can guarantee you that there's NO way they'll vote for a dissolution, because people still believe TTB's expertise and ideals.

Second is that there is a particular person here keeps dragging OTB's name. Now to clarify, I do believe that OTB has the skill and experience in investing over the years, and I respect his investment philosophies. But why do you need to keep dragging his name here? Come on, the poor guy already has to respond to his detractors in forums where he invests his stocks and you drag him here in this debate for no reason. Moreover, people don't seem to understand that there's a difference between investment advisory and fund management. As the name suggests, the former advises investors while the latter actually manages investors' money. There are overlaps in what they do but they are clearly different. One obvious difference is that advisers are less burdened by their stockholders and stakeholders. Sure if their predictions are wrong no one is gonna trust them. But it is not necessarily for you to listen to OTB or any other advisers' advice to make an investment decision. But for fund managers the investment decisions that they make directly affects their shareholders and stakeholders. They have to be more accurate. They have to abide by the strict rules that the prospectus has laid out. The stakes are obviously higher, and therefore they have to be more careful. They also have to get a license to manage the funds. If you think the license is easy to get, then you're a genius and congratulations to you.

I'm glad someone asked the following, because it implies that you're comparing between different funds:
"Msia is also doing very good coz we are better than Zimbakwe?

The same mentality here..but at least u can be happy in yr life....very simple guy with little expectation...

Do u expect TTB , an established FM to only produce this result?
"
Let me educate you about some other major funds in Malaysia. Let me give you 2 examples: KAF Tactical Fund and Kenanga Balanced Fund. To be honest it might not be completely fair to compare since the KAF and Kenanga's funds are open-end while iCapital is closed-end (Do your own result to know the difference. Lazy to explain), but they follow the same principles in rewarding their investors. I also chose these 2 funds because both were established close to the year 2005(KAF was 2004 and Kenanga was 2001) and they have similar investing philosophy, which is medium to long term. Current iCapital cumulative return is 231.15% since inception, while KAF's and Kenanga's cumulative return is 237.66% and 94.30% respectively as of August 2019(Find the information yourself). Now KAF's fund beat iCapital, but only a small margin. To note, this is not to say I'm discouraging people to buy KAF's and Kenanga's funds. In fact I think it is admirable that they make millions for their investors considering the nature of their funds. But you can clearly see the performance. If you can find another fund that has a similar inception date and investment philosophy that beats iCapital, then I'll salute you. But I still won't change my mind that iCapital's performance is good.

The other comparison that people make is on the relative amount of returns instead of the absolute amount of the returns. Say for example, I invests 1 million and I get 21 million in 5 years. Suppose another person invests 140 million and get 160 million in 5 years. Both persons gained 20 million in 5 years, but you would say that the latter has a worse performance (which is still true, I'm not denying this). However, you have to acknowledge that the returns are still huge for both. Since inception, iCapital's NAV grown from RM140 million to RM 471.8 million since 2005. You don't appreciate the fact that in absolute terms, they have grown RM310 million in assets, which is not an easy feet since it has gone through the 2008 financial crisis, and the subsequent European Sovereign crisis that destroyed wealth and bankrupted so many people.

So I'm still confused. Why the hate again?

Posted by iPilot50 > 2019-10-17 16:36 | Report Abuse

*Sorry RM330 million

Posted by iPilot50 > 2019-10-17 16:41 | Report Abuse

The only issue I see is that it's that people here obviously have different investment philosophies. And thus you cling on your own ideas. I don't think that it's wrong to stick to your ideas, but if you want to stick with them, then others can too. So it's actually kinda pointless to keep arguing, because you either believe in iCapital's investment strategies or you don't. End of story.

Posted by waren > 2019-10-17 16:49 | Report Abuse

OTB stand for what

Posted by iPilot50 > 2019-10-17 16:50 | Report Abuse

It stands for Ooi Teik Bee. You can look him up in this forum by searching that name

Posted by iPilot50 > 2019-10-17 16:50 | Report Abuse

this site i mean

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 16:56 | Report Abuse

" Posted by soaring > Oct 17, 2019 4:30 PM | Report Abuse

abbah, just wondering, why putting money in the bank is not good for the fund? "

I no got know lah. Can U please explain that to all here. Thanks.

But if the fund make more money and put more money in the fund, that is good for the fund.

Posted by waren > 2019-10-17 17:09 | Report Abuse

thank you very much ! ipilot50

Posted by Nepo > 2019-10-17 19:25 | Report Abuse

Nicely written, ipilot50.

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-10-17 19:53 | Report Abuse

CharlesT – why keep repeating about OTB? He even replied what I wrote and proved that it is miniscule compared to RM100 mln. Trying to mislead people again? Do not compare handling <RM1 mln vs. hundreds of millions. I have repasted the arithmetic below again since you seem to have amnesia. You can also refer to ipilot50’s post above. The rest of the repeats i.e. management fee etc. I have also addressed this in the past in the repasted comment below.

Moving over to this post:

Value investing is not theme playing nor speculating. It is thinking like a business owner and looking for low risk, high return opportunities aka having an adequate margin of safety. As Warren Buffett said, rule number 1 is to not lose money, rule number 2 is to remember rule number 1.

To be a better investor, I always suggest people read Warren’s letters – can start here https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html - it has been extremely invaluable for me. It is easy to read, highly educational and super entertaining.

Because it is free, ingested properly, the rate of return is infinity. Needless to say it is also much better for your pockets in the longer-term than spending time on this forum looking for the “next hot stock”.

I can understand the attractiveness though, like a casino is attractive – talking which table/slot is hot, the rush, the adrenaline. Proper investing by comparison might look “boring”. But that is the reality – if you study the world’s greatest investors, the similarities are striking.

Finally, if you think it is easy sitting on hundreds of millions when everyone is buying, then you are a true amateur. Being the same as everyone else is easy – being different is hard. But I guess it is a bit like telling a fish what its like to walk on land.

Stock: [ICAP]: ICAPITAL.BIZ BERHAD UNIT

Oct 10, 2019 8:45 PM | Report Abuse

CharlesT, how much is otb managing based on those 5 year results? I take it you are referring to https://choivocapital.com/2018/12/24/a-conversation-with-mr-ooi-teik-b...

Assuming it was RM100 mln, then it means he is now a billionaire (CAGR of 76,56%), which means he should be in the Forbes list, and also makes me wonder why he would need groupies like you to worship him on some online forum.

If it is less than/not RM100 mln, then you need a reality check, because ICAP's NAV is RM448 mln as of today and RM140 mln at IPO.

Managing less than RM100K vs. RM1 mln vs RM10 mln vs. RM100 mln vs. managing RM448 mln is different - you need to think about a lot of things i.e. liquidity in both buying and selling etc.and just because stock picks move by 100% etc. it doesn't mean you could have bought enough to profit from it in full.

It is not about the times you get your picks right - it is about how much capital you were able to allocate when you did get it right.

TTB grew RM140 mln to RM448 mln at a CAGR of 9% per annum, soundly beating the KLCI, despite holding high amounts of cash - not many have thought about this. Now capital is being deployed as counters fall - you would know this if you attended the AGM.

It also needs to continue to be asked:

- if London thinks iCap is such a bad investment, then why keep buying?
- If share buy back were to work, why is it that London bought >20% of shares but the discount hasn't narrowed?
- Why is it that the discount is stuck at ~20% since London bought?
- why keep asking for a dividend when it clearly states that the fund is a capital appreciation fund?
- why complain about FM fees when it is already amongst the lowest in the market? I think people forget that TTB grew iCap for everyone without taking a cent in performance fees, which is the norm in the industry. Are you saying that if you grew a fund from RM140 mln to RM448 mln you shouldn't get paid? Don't be salty.

I bet the London guys and and many here, including yourself, do not understand why so many of iCap shareowners support TTB. Real recognise real.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-17 20:16 | Report Abuse

Keep buying means iCap is an excellent investment !

Posted by Sslee > 2019-10-17 21:01 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
I think people are unhappy about TTB is why he holds still on Parkson and keep repeating market crash for many years and miss out on E&E sector, Glove sector, e-commerce sector or those defensive sector (consumer products sector: Nestle, Dutchlady and etc) that pay reasonable good dividend.

Thank you

Posted by calvintaneng > 2019-10-17 21:10 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > Oct 17, 2019 9:01 PM | Report Abuse

Dear all,
I think people are unhappy about TTB is why he holds still on Parkson and keep repeating market crash for many years and miss out on E&E sector, Glove sector, e-commerce sector or those defensive sector (consumer products sector: Nestle, Dutchlady and etc) that pay reasonable good dividend.

Thank you

HAHAHA!

If what you say is true then TTB purposely wrought havoc for shareholders by making Icap under perform?

That will be very bad taste and unprofessional hor

To punish shareholders for what?

Posted by Johnchew5 > 2019-10-17 21:53 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Monkeymum > 2019-10-18 05:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-18 08:41 | Report Abuse

17/10/2019 4:30 PM

iPilot50 I can't believe that this discussion is still going on. The oppositions keep using the same arguments again and again. What I mean is if you already made your point, I'm not sure what's the benefit of staying here to comment more when you could have gone elsewhere to debate.

Yeap, i still see the same arguments from TTB n friends....

Current iCapital cumulative return is 231.15% since inception, while KAF's and Kenanga's cumulative return is 237.66% and 94.30% respectively as of August 2019(Find the information yourself).

ICAP is perform better than Kenanga n KLCI (but worse than KAF)...so ICAP is doing great right why make so much noise?

Anybody knew who is the hero behind KAF?

We are comparing TTB (a very well known FM n many called him Msia WB since many years ago)...

If TTB n shareholders are happy with this kind of performance beating KLCI, one of Kenanga Fund then i have nothing to say loh....


Anyway Msia is still doing better than Zimbakwe...happy leh

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-18 08:48 | Report Abuse

JohnDough : Value investing is not theme playing nor speculating. It is thinking like a business owner and looking for low risk, high return opportunities aka having an adequate margin of safety. As Warren Buffett said, rule number 1 is to not lose money, rule number 2 is to remember rule number 1.

How did Parkson (n Bstead) fit into the above?

Why would TTB die die holding Parkson from Rm2.00+ to RM0.20+ ( a whopping 90% loss) for years while missing all the theme plays which went up 100% to few hundred percent each round?

U meant TTB dont know how to cut loss?

I hope the reason behind TTB's holding of cash in FD since 2012 is not due to his phobia to invest into another Parkson, or Bstead...could be a blessing in disguise then....

Posted by Blackjack21 > 2019-10-18 08:50 | Report Abuse

I agree with @Monkeymum, iCap is solid stock with consistent returns

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-18 08:51 | Report Abuse

"why make so much noise?"

Making so much noise is to give the victory celebration and jubilation noise for ICap and ICap is the best investment now until its maturity.

That is why London sapu ICap non-stop !

maturity when ? I no got know when lah.

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-18 08:52 | Report Abuse

What is value investing of TTB?

To buy n hold a stock for more than 5 year or 10 years to make money (or to lose money like Parkson)?

Never to buy a theme stock for one to two years to make 100% to 200%?

Is there a minimum holding period of stock for TTB for his value investing?