Posted by Blackjack21 > 2019-10-24 14:30 | Report Abuse

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-24 14:56 | Report Abuse

To stockraider : mind to share the performance of Kenanga open ended long term fund over 15 years, I can't find.

I can only find 10 years annualised return for Kenanga which is 5.5% and ICAP is about 12%, share price is abt 8% based on 2015 annual report. Both NAV and share price beat Kenanga.

For cumulative return until Oct 2019, it is wrong to say Kenanga beat icap because Kenanga : 251.76% is over a period of 18+ years (launched May 2001) whereas icap 224.24% is over a shorter period, ie 14+ years (launched Oct 2005).

We should look at annualised return instead :
Kenanga : about 7% - stockraider, you can verify yourself if u think I'm wrong
icap : 9.24% (NAV), 6.94% (share price) abt same as Kenanga

Again, the above are ALL FACTS, no fake news here.

So, I really don't understand why some of you guys keep harping that icap's lousy performance, losing money again and again...... if so, should avoid buying, no need to waste time complaining..but Ahbah said icap too attractive for London to ignore.

Posted by ChiChing > 2019-10-24 14:57 | Report Abuse

I dont think ahbah needs a gf lo.
What is a gf to ahbah when writing nonsense in i3 is more important

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-24 15:09 | Report Abuse

wah these people against iCap damn smart. They own shares and then they just want to vote for dissolution of iCap to earn the 20% to 30% return. wah damn sinister. IF I WERE YOU, I WOULD BUY MORE SHARES OF ICAP LE IF I FOLLOW THAT THINKING.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-24 15:20 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-24 15:33 | Report Abuse

wah I really don't know which cock you're talking about lol. Jayden said the annualised return of Kenanga is worse than iCap's, and then you still talking about the cumulative returns. wah I'm not iCap supporter i also thought stockraider you sohai.

People are strong iCap supporters they biased they also got facts. I don't know stockraider where you got your facts. You can read bo? need limbei teach you?

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-24 15:40 | Report Abuse

Stockraider, please get your facts right and don't keep repeating wrong facts since you oredi know its wrong!!

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 15:51 | Report Abuse

"Ahbah said icap too attractive for London to ignore."

ahbah got said nonsense above ?

London is from UK and got the whole world to search for gf n yet tak bolih tahan seeing our lovely Malaysian gf here.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-24 15:51 | Report Abuse

limbeh also don't understand what ahbah is talking about, keep pulling out old news or records on iCap. ahbah, 10 years ago, you might also say you want to become a pilot or an engineer or the prime minister of Malaysia, BUT YOU STILL END UP HERE COMMENTING NON-STOP DAY AND NIGHT. My point is everyone can talk cock. you can even talk cock about what people said gazillion years ago. But TTB still raised a million ringgit company and you still here giving half-ass comments that I still don't understand

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-24 15:54 | Report Abuse

ahbah only follow what other people's say. Calvin asked him to buy Next he also bought Next. Now the Next forum kena tembak until shit like that, and everyone knows calvin is a fraudster. People asked him to attack iCap he also attack iCap. Limbeh don't understand your thinking process le.

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-24 15:58 | Report Abuse

people said nonsense you also follow. Blackjack said your gf is delicious and then you reply "got the whole world to search for gf n yet tak bolih tahan seeing our lovely Malaysian gf here." I don't understand this statement. Speak ingklis. you don't know how to read you should say upfront you don't know how to read. Then I'll treat you with more respek lo.

Nah I'm no iCap supporter la. I think their stock price rose very slow la. But your comments so dumb I thought it was hilarious.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-24 16:06 | Report Abuse

ahbah's quoted below, I inserted para 1, 2 & 3 for easier reference :

Para 1 "Ahbah said icap too attractive for London to ignore."

Para 2 ahbah got said nonsense above ?

para 3 London is from UK and got the whole world to search for gf n yet tak bolih tahan seeing our lovely Malaysian gf here.

Isn't para 1 same meaning with para 3, I presume the Malaysian gf is icap?

Maybe ahbah got split personality like Doctor Jackel & Mr Hyde, that's why can't remember.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 16:06 | Report Abuse

ahbah is just a novice investor.

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 16:08 | Report Abuse

1. ICAP 2019 NTA Growth is - 9.55% ,which pulled down the annualised rtn to date to 9.24% from 9.44 (2018)
2. If one look at the sliding trend of NTA growth since 2013, it is worrying.
3.If still same strategies & same stk mix in portfolio, could 2020,see another negative NTA growth ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 16:12 | Report Abuse

Who think London can ignore ICap when ICap appear so attractive n lovely to London ?

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 16:14 | Report Abuse

anyone did a rough cut review of ICAP current stk porfolio rtn ytd ? thks.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 16:23 | Report Abuse

As the Company is a closed-ended fund, a better indication of its performance would be the movement of its Net
Assets Value (“NAV”). The Company’s NAV decreased to RM445.92 million as at 31 August 2019 from
RM499.05 million as at 31 August 2018. This resulted in a reduction of NAV per share as at 31 August 2019 to
RM3.19, compared with NAV per share of RM3.56 as at 31 August 2018, a decrease of 10.39%.

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 16:33 | Report Abuse

he answer given by some learnt forumer on the fact ICAP seem to missed a golden opp. to make good on the O&G sector recovery n IT/Technology boom since 2017 :

'this is not an industry thematic fund which iCap obviously made it very clear. The regulatory process for a thematic fund is not even the same. so please....you can also go and trash the countless numbers of US hedge funds that lost to FANG. '

the same learnt forumer ask us to be constructive.
does the above sound like constructive or plain excuses ?

what holders expect is focus on answering the ICAP issues,
- instead, we are diverted n asked to read the book:

'I recommend you read Daniel Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow" and it'll be great if you even learn just about "base-rate" '

hello, learnt guy, we are not the one raking in the Millions in mgmt fees...
the one who manage ICAP, is the one who must answer,

1) what is the use of millions in cash, but miss the golden opp in 2017-2019

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 16:38 | Report Abuse

What forward looking measures have the ICAP fund mgrs taken to ensure, it does not miss the next boom ?

Posted by speakup > 2019-10-24 16:41 | Report Abuse

TTB better now make City of London angry
if City of London sell.... icap will limit down!

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 16:43 | Report Abuse

aftr 6 yrs of strategy that did not work out, to achieve 'commitment to superior returns', is it time that a hard look, what went wrong ?
Or continue with excuses, all is fine, others did wourse ?

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 16:44 | Report Abuse

the trend is worrying...


Posted by ahbah > Oct 24, 2019 4:23 PM | Report Abuse

As the Company is a closed-ended fund, a better indication of its performance would be the movement of its Net
Assets Value (“NAV”). The Company’s NAV decreased to RM445.92 million as at 31 August 2019 from
RM499.05 million as at 31 August 2018. This resulted in a reduction of NAV per share as at 31 August 2019 to
RM3.19, compared with NAV per share of RM3.56 as at 31 August 2018, a decrease of 10.39%.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 16:46 | Report Abuse

What went wrong ? They still got their gaji.

Posted by Quincy > 2019-10-24 16:46 | Report Abuse

@stockraider

"THE WORSE PERFORMANCE WAS RECORDED IN 2018 WITH NEGAIVE RETURN OF MORE THAN 15% COMPARE WITH PREVIOUS YEAR LOH...!!"

One: I don't know how you get more than 15%. Looking at the actual NAV figure over http://www.icapital.my/announcements/weeklynav/weeklynav2018/ NAV declined 10.8% for FY2018. Price based on closing for the year declined 12.1%.

Two: https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_2018/188377.jsp This is i3 2018 stock pick competition result. Everyone got whacked by the election result and 18Q4, stop being immature. Even if iCap holds no cash and gets fully invested, it will still be easily top 30. Go and check US funds' 13F filings also.

Now I understand why Philip thinks you are just an office myvi boy that pretends to be a lion.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-24 16:51 | Report Abuse

All those TTB macai still says icap doing veli well...but icap give annualised 1% pa return, even ahfah jual sayur in pudu market beat icap performance for the past 4 years, her Fixed deposits return 4% pa compare to TTB loh...!!

Why ahfah beat TTB leh ??
Bcos ahfah don incurred any management fees putting monies in fd whereas TTB charge high management fees for doing donkey work loh...!!

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 17:00 | Report Abuse

TTB better now make City of London angry
if City of London sell.... icap will limit down!

ahbah sure cry like a small baby if icap limit down, London angry n I think ttb feel no pain, he still will get his gaji lah.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 17:13 | Report Abuse

Icap .... today up 3 sen, so all are happy with ICap performance today !

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-10-24 17:38 | Report Abuse

All this talk always comes back to iCap is under performing. But underperforming relative to what? Since inception it has returned 9% p.a. I have said it before and I will say it again – find me a comparable fund/product that is as transparent, safe with strong performance that and I can trust in Malaysia. No one has been able to do that.

And I will also repeat yet again that value investing is not “theme investing”, which in itself is an oxymoron. Calling a speculator an investor is like calling a person engaging in one night stands a romantic.

There is a big difference between an investor and a speculator and too many on this forum confuse the two. Nothing wrong to be a speculator – just that it has been proven time and again to be inferior to value investing over the longer-term. Key to wealth is to not lose it in the first place.

When you are down 50%, you need to be up 100% to recover. This asymmetry is why there are far more millionhairs than millionaires. This is why value investing is superior, as it is more focused on the downside rather than the upside and seeks low risk high return opportunities.

The primary goal is capital preservation based on the golden rule of not losing money. This is why many people – including myself – place our money with TTB for him to manage – because we know we can trust him. That level of trust cannot be bought, but must be earned.

If you have been around long enough and pay attention, you learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. As I've said before, real recognize real. And for myself, I will take my safe compound return and enjoy my everyday life without having to worry about my hard earned money being wiped. That is priceless.

Since your name – stkstudent – suggest you are trying to learn, I suggest you read up on Warren Buffett’s letters (https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html) – you will see this mindset very clearly. It makes sense to me to learn how a great investor thinks directly from one of the greats himself. But if you want to speculate, then continue on allocating more of your time on this forum.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-24 17:53 | Report Abuse

This is what relative underperformance of icap loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > Oct 24, 2019 4:51 PM | Report Abuse X

All those TTB macai still says icap doing veli well...but icap give annualised 1% pa return, even ahfah jual sayur in pudu market beat icap performance for the past 4 years, her Fixed deposits return 4% pa compare to TTB loh...!!

Why ahfah beat TTB leh ??
Bcos ahfah don incurred any management fees putting monies in fd whereas TTB charge high management fees for doing donkey work loh...!!

Posted by Blackjack21 > 2019-10-24 19:04 | Report Abuse

Who is ahfah? Is she ahbah's wife?

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 19:27 | Report Abuse

Johndole,

1) could it be ICAP now is just resting on its laurels, of past high NTA growth in the early yrs ?

2) Based on your view, is there a high possibility the fund may incur negative NTA growth again for 2020, based on the declining NTA growth trend, past few yrs.

2) Is it noted in the AR that capital preservation is the primary goal of the fund now ?

3) i read that ICAP invest in undervalue companies in Bursa for superior compounded performance.
If after more than 6 yrs, still cannot find any undervalue share to invest in, what could be the issue ?
4) Could it be ICAP's defination of 'value investing' is now too rigid, of a past era that is losing relevant to the changing equity market today ?

ie the investing world of stks has changed but our view of stks has not changed
eg thematic stks vs undervalue stks

5) Many of us here, viewed ICAP fund mgr as the Warren Buffet of Msia at one time.
Warren Buffet has seem to change his investing world view with time,
Has our Msia WB, still in his purist frame of mind ?

6) If in all honesty, true to his investing philosophy, the fund mgr cannot find any stks worthy of risk,
is it fair to ask that, the mgr inform his customers, the holders, this and give the holders an option to decide, what to do with their investment ?

thks

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-24 19:39 | Report Abuse

Stkstudent, did you attend any of icap AGMs? u should be asking all your Qs and hear the answers from the horse's mouth.

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-24 19:45 | Report Abuse

maybe i will , nxt agm..

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 20:00 | Report Abuse

I write simple simple only, also small posts, sorry if U no understand.

Also, please no read n no reply or comment my posts. Thanks.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 20:08 | Report Abuse

On behalf of the Board of Directors of icapital.biz Berhad, we wish to announce that the Net Asset Value per share of icapital.biz Berhad as at 23 October 2019 was 3.21.

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-10-24 21:01 | Report Abuse

1) could it be ICAP now is just resting on its laurels, of past high NTA growth in the early yrs ?

I disagree – it has invested (Selangor Properties) and continues to invest (as per recent AGM). Those in the know also knows how hard TTB actually works.

2) Based on your view, is there a high possibility the fund may incur negative NTA growth again for 2020, based on the declining NTA growth trend, past few yrs.

I don’t know what will happen next year, but I am confident over time it will perform. Most importantly, it is safe and transparent.

2) Is it noted in the AR that capital preservation is the primary goal of the fund now ?

Take care of the downside, and the upside takes care of itself. My point is to make money, you must not lose money first.

3) i read that ICAP invest in undervalue companies in Bursa for superior compounded performance.
If after more than 6 yrs, still cannot find any undervalue share to invest in, what could be the issue ?

See (1)

4) Could it be ICAP's defination of 'value investing' is now too rigid, of a past era that is losing relevant to the changing equity market today ?
ie the investing world of stks has changed but our view of stks has not changed
eg thematic stks vs undervalue stks

All intelligent investing is value investing – to get more than what you paid for. More commonly known as margin of safety.

5) Many of us here, viewed ICAP fund mgr as the Warren Buffet of Msia at one time.
Warren Buffet has seem to change his investing world view with time,
Has our Msia WB, still in his purist frame of mind ?

I don’t really see TTB as WB, I see him as TTB. With respect to Buffett (there are two tt’s to his last name), am not sure what you are referring to here. His cash pile is now >US$120 bln. If you study Berkshire properly, you will realise that their performance since Warren took over is by and large carried by 10 stocks.

There is actually a lecture that Buffett did some time ago. He explained to students that if you want to become really rich, draw up a punch card with 10 holes. Imagine that in your entire life, every time you invest, you will punch 1 hole. In other words, you only have 10 chances to allocate your capital until you die. When you think about it this way, your whole view of investing changes.

Warren and his partner, Charlie Munger, have repeatedly said that the key to them being very rich is by seemingly not doing very much at all. But when a fat pitch comes along, they go in very heavily. To do that, you need to be prepared. It seems to most people very easy, but it is actually the hardest thing to do because the human tendency is to do what others are doing.

6) If in all honesty, true to his investing philosophy, the fund mgr cannot find any stks worthy of risk,
is it fair to ask that, the mgr inform his customers, the holders, this and give the holders an option to decide, what to do with their investment ?

This is what the AGM is for, and every year, shareowners overwhelmingly support him, evidenced by AGM votes and City of London’s repeated failed attempts to influence shareowners. Why? Because of what I said in my previous post. Anyways, you can also refer to (1) again.


Finally, I will also reiterate my point again – there is no comparable fund/product that is as transparent, safe with strong performance that and I can trust in Malaysia. I do not think about my investments in 1, 5 year terms. I think about it like owning a piece of land that I will keep for my future generations. ICAP is for those that have this mindset. See (6).

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-24 21:10 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 21:42 | Report Abuse

For the financial year ended 31 May 2019, your Fund
made new investments as shown in Chart 3. These were
Bioalpha Holdings Berhad, Carlsberg Brewery Malaysia
Berhad, Kobay Technology Berhad, and SAM Engineering
& Equipment (M) Berhad.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 21:45 | Report Abuse

From 31 May 2018 to 31 May 2019, the NAV per share of
your Fund decreased from RM3.56 to RM3.22 (a loss of
9.55%) and the market price decreased from RM2.59 to
RM2.42 (a loss of 6.56%). In the same period, FBMKLCI
lost 5.16%.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 21:49 | Report Abuse

Since its listing on 19 October 2005, the NAV per share of
your Fund has risen from RM0.99 to RM3.22 by 31 May
2019 – see Chart 4. This represents a gain of 225%. Since
its listing on 19 October 2005, the market price of your Fund
had risen from RM1.01 to RM2.42 by 31 May 2019. This
represents a gain of 140%. During the same period, the
FBMKLCI rose by 81%.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-24 22:01 | Report Abuse

Bioalpha ... the next gold mine strike by ICap ?

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-24 22:16 | Report Abuse

It does not really matter whether you choose to measure the returns based on 1yr, 3 yrs, 5 yrs or any arbitrary period to suit your own agenda, coz the most accurate and correct way is to measure from the inception date of the fund, just like your FD interest starts compounding from the date you start your FD account.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-25 10:09 | Report Abuse

mkt price = 2.42

nav = 3.21

discount = 3.21 - 2.42 = 0.79

What to do ?

Posted by FlyHigh123 > 2019-10-25 16:32 | Report Abuse

why you ask stupid question like that ahbah lol. market price is based on whether you want to buy or you don't want to buy one ma. to be honest if you think about it properly, it has not much to do with the nav also. people buy more it'll go above the nav, buy less it'll go below the nav, just like people buy more stocks of normal companies the per goes up, buy less the per goes down. Don't like the price sell, like the price buy. Easy right?

Posted by FreeStyle > 2019-10-25 21:10 | Report Abuse

@FlyHigh123, talking about that, i remember TTB mentioned about the persistent discount gap of ICAP ever since this City of London started to purchase ICAP. i wonder why the discount gap never narrows since they bought so many shares of ICAP and still buying.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-25 22:14 | Report Abuse

Nice condo mkt price RM500k, buy at RM375k, will be laughing to the bank, sure no complain!

Posted by CharlesT > 2019-10-26 07:25 | Report Abuse

No complain if can sell it back at RM500k next year

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-26 10:23 | Report Abuse

Finally, I will also reiterate my point again – there is no comparable fund/product that is as transparent, safe with strong performance that and I can trust in Malaysia. I do not think about my investments in 1, 5 year terms. I think about it like owning a piece of land that I will keep for my future generations. ICAP is for those that have this mindset. See (6).
24/10/2019 9:01 PM------ greatest hypnosis by icap.

Dissolve icap next year, instantly profit 50%, realized your dead profit, then buy China index fund or public index fund or if u are really a long long term investor, directly buy a land. At least u can collect rent from other by owing the land instead of pay rent to icap to own his claimed long term assetssssss!

What alpha does this fund gives you to justify an enormous fee?
Holders should support London John to dissolve icap.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-10-26 10:38 | Report Abuse

@cheoky, how do u define enormous fee? Most funds charges about the same rate of 1.5% or higher when they impose sales charge even b4 performing, how about that.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 10:57 | Report Abuse

Now Icap at Rm2.42- buy more or buy less ?