Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 11:03 | Report Abuse

"i wonder why the discount gap never narrows since they bought so many shares of ICAP and still buying."

Is it the wonder of the beauty of ICap that keep London still buying ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 11:05 | Report Abuse

What is the normal fee of a FD manager ?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-26 11:58 | Report Abuse

As usual fees expensive or not, relate to performance in the case of icap it is acheiving a compound rate of 1% pa for past 5 years.....if u pay 1% management fee it is consider very expensive loh...!!

On the otherhand, if u r for the past 5 yrs achieving compound return of 12% to 15% return pa, even if u pay 5% management is consider not expensive mah...!!

Posted by jeydan89 > Oct 26, 2019 10:38 AM | Report Abuse

@cheoky, how do u define enormous fee? Most funds charges about the same rate of 1.5% or higher when they impose sales charge even b4 performing, how about that.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-26 12:07 | Report Abuse

Count shareholder of icap lucky bcos london fund is buying, bcos without london fund accumulating....the discout & paper loss of icap shareholders is even higher loh....!!

A professor of a well known local university, in a private report assess that, if city of london never buy upto 20% of icap, the current icap share price should be around rm 1.75 loh....!!

Thanks to city london buying the gap narrowed as now loh...!

!Posted by FreeStyle > Oct 25, 2019 9:10 PM | Report Abuse

@FlyHigh123, talking about that, i remember TTB mentioned about the persistent discount gap of ICAP ever since this City of London started to purchase ICAP. i wonder why the discount gap never narrows since they bought so many shares of ICAP and still buying.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-26 12:11 | Report Abuse

Thus it is very important for u to support London vote to dissolve icap in 2020 vote mah......!!

If fail to dissolve your icap share price will collapse to rm 1.75 or lower loh....!!

Pls Come and join city of london campaign to dissolve icap loh...!!

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 13:29 | Report Abuse

Now no way out !

We all must support London, if no support London, our hard earn money in ICap shall be burnt from Rm2.42 to Rm1.75.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 13:35 | Report Abuse

ALL must thank London for their buying support of ICap.

The price n the annual return of ICap will be very much lower without the buying support of London.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 13:38 | Report Abuse

ttb n co got buy ICap to support ICap like London ?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-26 13:39 | Report Abuse

>>>

stockraider

Oct 26, 2019 12:07 PM | Report Abuse

Count shareholder of icap lucky bcos london fund is buying, bcos without london fund accumulating....the discout & paper loss of icap shareholders is even higher loh....!!

>>>>


Very stupid comment by raider.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 13:49 | Report Abuse

sifu 3iii, Please guide us on ICap. Thanks.

sifu raider is also trying very hard to protect the hard money of novice investors like ahbah in ICap.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-26 22:50 | Report Abuse

"I think icapital.biz is no different from other stocks in the Bursa. Though over the long term, icapital.biz has delivered positive returns, for those who have bought and sold icapital.biz stocks over the years, on an aggregate, there were more losers than winners."

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kianweiaritcles/232246.jsp

ttb n co ... the undoubted n undisputed winner in ICap ?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-27 09:05 | Report Abuse

If you have invested $1 million into icap at its inception in October 2005, your investment is worth $3.3 million (based on NAV 3.21 million in shares and $ 90,000 from dividends).).

Posted by stkstudent > 2019-10-27 10:29 | Report Abuse

it seems that a simple way to reduce the discount on ICAP NTA n market price, is to declare annual dividends to holders, at a rate that is deem attractive to the market.
This will make easier to compare with open-end funds , in terms of actual returns to the holder.
As it is, holders do not benefit from the high NTA n need to sell at discounted market price.

Posted by king36 > 2019-10-27 10:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by cheoky > Oct 26, 2019 10:23 AM | Report Abuse
..............
What alpha does this fund gives you to justify an enormous fee?
Holders should support London John to dissolve icap.

Hi cheoky....I agree with u. Dissolve next year!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-27 12:32 | Report Abuse

This is precisely how stupid this 3iii is loh....!!

Yes from that inception to now about 15 yrs roughly icap makes about 9% pa compound loh....!!

But most of its monies are make in the 1st 8 yrs mah....!!
The most obvious under performance can be seen from the latest 4 to 5 yrs, which it generate only compound 1% pa for the past 4 to 5 yrs loh..!
Generating mediocre 1% return pa for past 4 to 5 yrs, do u want such company leh ?

Just imagine your son is the top student getting position of 1 to 4 every year out of 400 students from standard 1 to form 2, but subsequently your son position drop to 200 to 300 from form 3 to form 6 are u not concerned ?? Is it not something wrong?

I will rather have my son doing mediocre badly from standard 1 to form 2 but in the later latest year doing extremely well from form 3 to form 6 loh.....!!
Thats is how u assess investment performance always recent & current performance should be given highest importance loh..!!

I think we should support London coming proposal to bungkus icap, at least we get immediate more than 30% return instead of suffering 1% to 2% return pa on icap loh....!!

Posted by 3iii > Oct 27, 2019 9:05 AM | Report Abuse

If you have invested $1 million into icap at its inception in October 2005, your investment is worth $3.3 million (based on NAV 3.21 million in shares and $ 90,000 from dividends).).

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-27 12:36 | Report Abuse

The best strategy to narrow the gap is to declare a dividend of Rm 2.00 per share bcos this are where the under performance due to excess cash mah, if we do not want to bungkus icap loh....!!

Posted by stkstudent > Oct 27, 2019 10:29 AM | Report Abuse

it seems that a simple way to reduce the discount on ICAP NTA n market price, is to declare annual dividends to holders, at a rate that is deem attractive to the market.
This will make easier to compare with open-end funds , in terms of actual returns to the holder.
As it is, holders do not benefit from the high NTA n need to sell at discounted market price.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-27 16:31 | Report Abuse

Posted by king36 > Oct 27, 2019 10:58 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by cheoky > Oct 26, 2019 10:23 AM | Report Abuse
..............
What alpha does this fund gives you to justify an enormous fee?
Holders should support London John to dissolve icap.

Hi cheoky....I agree with u. Dissolve next year!

king36 is an excellent king who cares for all his subjects.

Long live king36 !

Hidup king36 !

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-27 16:41 | Report Abuse

"Posted by stkstudent > Oct 27, 2019 10:29 AM | Report Abuse

it seems that a simple way to reduce the discount on ICAP NTA n market price, is to declare annual dividends to holders, at a rate that is deem attractive to the market.
This will make easier to compare with open-end funds , in terms of actual returns to the holder.
As it is, holders do not benefit from the high NTA n need to sell at discounted market price."

The simple way as suggested above is actually an excellent way !

How about declaring max div as allowed by the bank deposit in ICap ?

High NTA benefits ttb n co bcos their gaji is based on NTA ?

stkstudent ... really a stkguru lah.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-27 16:44 | Report Abuse

Can a novice investor like ahbah self proclaim he is the Malaysian mkt god when he only make 1% pa for the last 5 yrs ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-27 16:49 | Report Abuse

"Posted by 3iii > Oct 27, 2019 9:05 AM | Report Abuse

If you have invested $1 million into icap at its inception in October 2005, your investment is worth $3.3 million (based on NAV 3.21 million in shares and $ 90,000 from dividends).)."

Sifu 3iii, Are U making the call to gulong tikar ICap and return the NAV 3.21 to ICap shareholders ?

Please make your call clearly here to guide all the novice investors here like ahbah. Thank you sifu 3iii.

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-10-27 21:28 | Report Abuse

Same arguments again and again, so guess I will repeat same again too. The most important one is the first one, whereby no one – up until now – has been able to reply.

In terms of fund performance - “All this talk always comes back to iCap is under performing. But underperforming relative to what? Since inception it has returned 9% p.a. I have said it before and I will say it again – find me a comparable fund/product that is as transparent, safe with strong performance that and I can trust in Malaysia. No one has been able to do that”

In terms of 5 years: “I do not think about my investments in 1, 5 year terms. I think about it like owning a piece of land that I will keep for my future generations. ICAP is for those that have this mindset.”

Most importantly: “every year, shareowners overwhelmingly support TTB, evidenced by AGM votes and City of London’s repeated failed attempts to influence shareowners. Why does TTB have so many loyal followers? Because they trust that he is not going to make them lose money over the long-term, but sustainably grow and preserve their wealth. Again – rule number 1 is not to lose money, rule number 2, remember rule number 1. This is what they are paying for. Everyone talks about the capital gains, but no one thinks about the twin, capital loss. If you are down 50%, you need to gain 100% to make your money back. The odds are against you.

On fees, they look high in RM terms because the fund grew and the fund grew because it performed – in reality, the % fee is much lower than other funds due to low trading (PTR ratio <1), zero loading and no performance fees. Go and find me a lower active fund % in Malaysia with zero entry, zero exit, no performance fee and better performance please. Remember, it grew at 9% despite holding high levels of cash.

If you think its so easy then go DIY, or look for another product as good, as transparent and as safe. Because ICAP is so safe and superior that even the ang mo like it and can’t get enough of it including breaking the law – ICAP don’t even need an ang mo chop of approval. Its probably the only product in Malaysia now that the British is addicted to.”

And “if you think it is easy sitting on hundreds of millions when everyone is buying, then you are a true amateur. Being the same as everyone else is easy – being different is hard. But I guess it is a bit like telling a fish what its like to walk on land.”

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-27 21:35 | Report Abuse

Warren buffett Malaysia deliver such outperformance vs bursa. Go fly kite better I guess.

My passive, figureless managed, low fee China c25 ETF also be beat icap from 2013 till 2019. Furthermore mine discounted to nta is better than icap lo.

Mine and icap went through same market condition oh. Figureless managed fund beat icap effortlessly...Pay less fee.. wasai

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-27 21:58 | Report Abuse

https://www.pangolinfund.com/news.php

Maybe an alternative to icap. Go study

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-27 22:00 | Report Abuse

https://www.pangolinfund.com/about.php

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-27 22:51 | Report Abuse

"If you think its so easy then go DIY, or look for another product as good, as transparent and as safe. Because ICAP is so safe and superior that even the ang mo like it and can’t get enough of it including breaking the law – ICAP don’t even need an ang mo chop of approval. Its probably the only product in Malaysia now that the British is addicted to.”

I am only just a new n novice investor n no got understand.

Ang mo like it (ICap) to live or dead next year ?

Ang mo got break the law ?. Faster, faster tangkap the ang moh. I sokong kuat kuat ! Bcos ang mo is NOT above our Malaysian law !

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-27 22:52 | Report Abuse

http://www.arecacapital.com/Funds+Information_19_1.htm


Search for Areca equityTrust Fund fact sheet. And make comparison....

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-27 22:55 | Report Abuse

If we are to use icap market price as benchmark, lagi no eyes see.....aiyoyoyo. comparisons laid bare. London bridge is falling down.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-27 22:59 | Report Abuse

Where is the aphla offered in icap let? If not, then why holders is willing to pay such fee le? London bridge is falling down....

Posted by cheoky > 2019-10-27 23:14 | Report Abuse

My advice to holder - join force with London John. Maybe later I join u all and artibrage together. Then perhaps one you can use the profit to buy land and collect rent. Just like Warren buffet of Malaysia is collecting from your FD now.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 10:07 | Report Abuse

What is the gaji for flying kites ? Thanks.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 10:15 | Report Abuse

Mr. JohnDough, are U in ttb n co ? Bcos U got all the facts n figures

on ICap.

Our cheoky got reply to U ?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 15:30 | Report Abuse

My reply to ahbah the Great

Should icap.biz fund be disbanded or to be renewed?

Well, as an initial shareholder of icap.biz berhad, I have also added more shares over the years. I am riding on significant gains in this stock and my opinion is of course, biased by my experience.

Each investor will have different experiences and their opinion of this stock will accordingly be influenced by their personal experiences (recency bias). Also, the investment objective, risk tolerance and time horizon for each investor is different. Not surprisingly, there will be different opinions.

I am invested for the long term aiming to build wealth over the long term through long term compounding. I will vote for icap.biz fund tenure to be renewed next AGM for my own selfish reasons.


3iii

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 15:32 | Report Abuse

I am also of the opinion that the majority of the shareholders in icap.biz berhad will vote to extend the tenure of the fund. ttb has cultivated these investors who share his philosophy and these investors have remained loyal to ttb so far. It would be difficult for the outcome to be otherwise.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 15:34 | Report Abuse

http://myinvestingnotes.blogspot.com/2019/10/icapitalbiz-berhad-price-chart-since.html

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 15:38 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-28 15:47 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-28 16:00 | Report Abuse

It is best icap to be liquidated next year 2020, at least suffering 5 years long shareholders can get their monies back with an estimated liquidation of gain of 30% loh....!!

For the rest of the shareholders, if they still like TTB, they can always approach TTB to set up another fund if they like loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > Oct 26, 2019 12:07 PM | Report Abuse X

Count shareholder of icap lucky bcos london fund is buying, bcos without london fund accumulating....the discout & paper loss of icap shareholders is even higher loh....!!

A professor of a well known local university, in a private report assess that, if city of london never buy upto 20% of icap, the current icap share price should be around rm 1.75 loh....!!

Thanks to city london buying the gap narrowed as now loh...!

Posted by stockraider > Oct 27, 2019 12:36 PM | Report Abuse X

The best strategy to narrow the gap is to declare a dividend of Rm 2.00 per share bcos this are where the under performance due to excess cash mah, if we do not want to bungkus icap loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > Oct 27, 2019 12:32 PM | Report Abuse X

This is precisely how stupid this 3iii is loh....!!

Yes from that inception to now about 15 yrs roughly icap makes about 9% pa compound loh....!!

But most of its monies are make in the 1st 8 yrs mah....!!
The most obvious under performance can be seen from the latest 4 to 5 yrs, which it generate only compound 1% pa for the past 4 to 5 yrs loh..!
Generating mediocre 1% return pa for past 4 to 5 yrs, do u want such company leh ?

Just imagine your son is the top student getting position of 1 to 4 every year out of 400 students from standard 1 to form 2, but subsequently your son position drop to 200 to 300 from form 3 to form 6 are u not concerned ?? Is it not something wrong?

I will rather have my son doing mediocre badly from standard 1 to form 2 but in the later latest year doing extremely well from form 3 to form 6 loh.....!!
Thats is how u assess investment performance always recent & current performance should be given highest importance loh..!!

I think we should support London coming proposal to bungkus icap, at least we get immediate more than 30% return instead of suffering 1% to 2% return pa on icap loh....!

Posted by stockraider > Oct 26, 2019 12:11 PM | Report Abuse X

Thus it is very important for u to support London vote to dissolve icap in 2020 vote mah......!!

If fail to dissolve your icap share price will collapse to rm 1.75 or lower loh....!!

Pls Come and join city of london campaign to dissolve icap loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Oct 24, 2019 4:51 PM | Report Abuse X

All those TTB macai still says icap doing veli well...but icap give annualised 1% pa return, even ahfah jual sayur in pudu market beat icap performance for the past 4 years, her Fixed deposits return 4% pa compare to TTB loh...!!

Why ahfah beat TTB leh ??
Bcos ahfah don incurred any management fees putting monies in fd whereas TTB charge high management fees for doing donkey work loh...!!

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 16:10 | Report Abuse

stockraider is not an honest chap. Cannot be trusted. You have to make up your own mind based on your own individual circumstances.


If you have a lot of money, you wish to allocate a sum to a fund for the long term and you are not in a position to invest directly by yourself, you will need to choose the fund manager and a fund to invest into.


Just make your own decision.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 16:19 | Report Abuse

A good fund manager should not get distracted by shorter-term noises.

Similarly, share owners who believe in long-term value investing should not get distracted by shorter-term investors.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 16:20 | Report Abuse

3iii, I sincerely thank U for your reply but I protest in the strongest term possible of U adding the extension of 2 words to the name.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 16:22 | Report Abuse

http://myinvestingnotes.blogspot.com/2015/09/icapital-close-end-fund-winners-and.html
THURSDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2015
iCapital Close End Fund: The Winners and the Losers over the last 10 years


This was written in 2015 when icap.biz was 10 years into its listing.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 16:23 | Report Abuse

http://myinvestingnotes.blogspot.com/2015/09/icapital-close-end-fund-winners-and.html
THURSDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2015
iCapital Close End Fund: The Winners and the Losers over the last 10 years



This was written in 2015 when icap.biz was 10 years into its listing.


Who are the winners?

1. Those who have been holding the funds since inception. They are the winners.
2. Those who bought in 2008 and 2009, they are winners. They would have bought icap close end fund at a low price.
3. Yes, the fund manager has been a big winner in this fund. This is to be expected as managing fund is a highly lucrative business indeed.




Who are the losers?

1. Those who bought into icap at the time of over-enthusiasm, when icap was trading at a huge premium. Those who bought into icap in 2007 and who did not hold the stocks till today were more likely to be losers.
2. Those who bought the stock in the last 3 years. They would have lost due to non-performance or poor performance of the fund over this period. They would have enjoyed a better return from investing into their risk free FDs.
.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-10-28 16:25 | Report Abuse

A criticism of ttb in icap.biz
THURSDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2015

The Fund Manager should stay focus.

Over the recent years, the fund manager of icap close end fund has been extensively involved in expansion into new funds and new geographical territory. His activities appear to target growing his assets under management by his company. His involvement in Investors Days, though commendable, is of doubtful benefit to the core shareholders of icap closed end fund.

As for hard core shareholders of icap closed end fund, their single focus is on the performance of the fund. In particular, can the fund deliver >15% compound annual return over the long term. Hopefully, by the year 2020, the year of reckoning, when the fund would have existed for a long period of 15 years and have been through a few up and down cycles, we can make a more objective assessment of the ability of the fund manager.

It is expected that most funds would just perform about the market return or slightly lower than the market return. Will icap close end fund be able to deliver returns much higher than this? Will icap close end fund be able to beat the returns of Buffett's during his earlier years of his involvement in stocks?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-28 16:30 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-28 16:37 | Report Abuse

REMEMBER THIS LOH....!!

IF TTB IS VERY SINCERE WITH HIS SHAREHOLDER, ON VALUE GENERATION & PERFORMANCE, HE SHOULD IMPLEMENT SHARE BUY BACK, JUST LIKE WHAT WARREN BUFFET DID, WHEN HE CANNOT FIND GOOD INVESTMENT INSTEAD OF PUTTING ALMOST 70% CASH IN FD FOR THE LATEST PAST 5 YRS LOH...!!

TTB IS SELFISH BY PUTTING ALL MONIES IN FD, HEO ENSURE, HE DRAW FAT UNJUSTIFIABLE FEES COMPARE TO PERFORMANCE LOH...!!

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 16:52 | Report Abuse

3iii, what sort of game will ttb n co play to ensure the renewal / extension of the life of ICap during the coming next 1 year ?

How about ttb n co giving some sweeties to London n co. to stop their crying ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 17:02 | Report Abuse

"TTB IS SELFISH BY PUTTING ALL MONIES IN FD, HEO ENSURE, HE DRAW FAT UNJUSTIFIABLE FEES COMPARE TO PERFORMANCE LOH...!!"

Maybe ttb to be paid like the salary that is paid to WB !

Then we all can honour ttb as the WB of Malaysia !

Posted by stockraider > 2019-10-28 17:02 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 17:18 | Report Abuse

"Will icap close end fund be able to deliver returns much higher than this? Will icap close end fund be able to beat the returns of Buffett's during his earlier years of his involvement in stocks?"

For ICap to deliver higher return, ttb n co must do what WB does with his money and to be paid the amount of the salary that is paid to WB.

Guaranti !

Posted by ahbah > 2019-10-28 17:30 | Report Abuse

"EVEN IF U HAVE BOUGHT ICAP RECENTLY, U R LIKELY TO FAVOR, LONDON OVER TTB, DUE TO ICAP HUGE DISCOUNT GAP LOH....!! "

Small kids like ahbah are crying for the sweeties in ICap.

Maybe, ttb n co got to take out some sweeties in ICap n give them some.