Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-19 16:32 | Report Abuse

"pinjam" is Bahasa, means "borrow" in English, in case the London boys don't understand.....

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-19 21:50 | Report Abuse

To add on, the market crash in 2008 that icap has managed to ride through safely was much more severe than the crash in 1997 which badly affected AMFB.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-19 22:26 | Report Abuse

Sori, I no got understand how the 'pinjam' can be used to make

comparison with ICap to show ICap performance n return.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-19 23:27 | Report Abuse

u want comparison better than icap mah, only magic mirror from the Evil Queen can tell u whether got or not loh

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-20 08:49 | Report Abuse

Any comparison to get a better understanding of ICap performance n return n not a better comparison than ICap.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-11-20 14:38 | Report Abuse

Wow, ahbah is still using the same old tricks to con naive people. Just look through the past posts, ahbah is the opposite of what he said he is. Don't believe whatever he says or else you will be sorry.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-11-20 14:47 | Report Abuse

Anyone who wants to know about ICAP should go to the official website of ICAP, that is www.icapital.my. Better still is to buy a small stake and attend ICAP's AGM and question the fund manager yourself. ICAP's AGM is usually a full-day event. You will have a full day to grill Tan Teng Boo. That should be the right way, instead of coming to the forum like this one and be misled by many con men/women here.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-11-20 14:52 | Report Abuse

In the internet world where people can hide behind a fake identity, be careful of what you are reading. Always go to the original source and find out the truth for yourself.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-20 21:31 | Report Abuse

"Posted by ahhuat56 > Nov 20, 2019 2:38 PM | Report Abuse

Wow, ahbah is still using the same old tricks to con naive people. Just look through the past posts, ahbah is the opposite of what he said he is. Don't believe whatever he says or else you will be sorry."

jeydan89 said ahbah no says, he just copy n paste here only. So, he also no got corn naïve people.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-20 22:18 | Report Abuse

no need me or whoever to con holders. results is there for all to see.
holder should ask your fund manager go attend Dr Neoh Soon Kean talks. Dr Neoh is definately more pragmatic than your fund manager lo. acknowledging country scenario, yet always find his way to improve his investment return.

no like your fund manager day day blame country situation then try be philosophical with you to buy time. you cant see it well you should be satisfied with meager return with no interest given. at best a dead undervalue holding for you.

Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2019-11-20 22:35 | Report Abuse

One man's meat is another man's poison.

For those who have spare cash and more risk-averse, ICAP is the preferred choice of investment. ICAP is like buying a fund to hold for a long time. Buying other shares like Top Glove is like buying a business.

"For your Fund to succeed year in year out, attracting the right share owners is very crucial." Some of us have no problems holding ICAP and trust its management, knowing that they have our best interests at heart.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-21 13:07 | Report Abuse

ttb n co = jeydan89, 3iii, iPilot50, JohnDough, FlyHigh123, ahteck85 n co ?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-11-22 11:00 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-11-22 11:18 | Report Abuse

BELOW IS THE REASONS WHY ICAP HAD FAILED LOH...!!

1. IT DID NOT SHARE BUYBACK DESPITE INVESTORS URGING THEM TO DO IT AS THE DISCOUNT EXCEED 30% AND MOST OF THEIR INVESTMENT IN FD.!
2. IT DID NOT PAY ANY DIV DESPITE LOW RETURN WITH HUGE CASH.
3.ITS ASSETS ARE INVESTED IN LOW RETURN FD WITH NO PROSPECT OF GROWTH.
4. IT HAS NOT DONE ITS BUSINESS OF ACQUIRING GOOD SHARE FOR INVESTMENT FOR THE PAST 5 YRS LOH...!!

UNLIKE OTHER INVESTMENT, U HAVE CHANCE TO LIQUIDATE ICAP IN 2020 IN A COMING VOTES AND MAKE A 30% GAIN LOH....!!

THUS NO LOST FOR U TO CLOSE DOWN ICAP LOH...!!

Capital Allocation by the Managers: Study their track record and their decision-making processes.
So you have bought a good company at a decent price. You have completed the essential part of choosing your favourite stocks.

By definition, this company generates a lot of earnings and the managers have significant flexibility in terms of how they allocate this money, with a wide range off options available to them.

It is important that the capacity to generate value through competitive advantages is also matched by an appropriate allocation of earned profit

Appropriate allocation of earned profit by the managers include:

1. Shares buyback and cancellation of shares. #
2. Dividends
3. Investments in assets for growth.
4. Acquisition of other companies to increase the company's competitive advantage.

The board should decide between these options based on the highest executed return and consequent value creation for the shareholder.

The only way you can get a fix on capital allocation is by studying the managers track record and the company's decision-making processes. It comes down to both a quantitative and a qualitative analysis based on criteria, with experience being assigned a very high weight.

The greater the extent to which managers have shareholding interests, the more likely it is that their interest will be aligned with minority shareholders, but this step shouldn't be overlooked in any case.

# (The shareholders should ask of the management board that they give consideration to repurchasing and cancelling shares. When you invested into the shares, you obviously believe the shares to be undervalued and this means that a cancellation would create value. The management need not have to do it but this should be on their list.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-11-22 16:10 | Report Abuse

YES u cannot afford to make a mistake of not liquidating icap for a handsome 30% profit in 2020 votes, while u still can mah....!!


Posted by 3iii > Nov 22, 2019 4:05 PM | Report Abuse

CONSERVATIVE, PRUDENT OR AGGRESSIVE INVESTMENT OBJECTIVES

Three basic profiles emerged and helped set the necessary guidelines for your investment portfolio.

The three basic profiles and their respective investment objectives are:

1. You cannot afford to make mistakes: Conservative investment objectives
2. You are carefully weighing up your options: Prudent investment objectives
3. You want to grow bigger and better: Aggressive investment objectives

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-22 16:31 | Report Abuse

jeydan89 said ahbah no says, he just copy n paste here only. So, he also no got corn naïve people.

If someone wrote something defamatory and ahbah repost, ahbah also caught for defamation, got it?

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-22 16:55 | Report Abuse

What Stktraitor & co are preaching, doesn't make any sense at all.

if icap actively pay dividend (paid once in 2013) and buying back shares, how can the continuously outflow of cash help to preserve or grow the NAV in the long run??

Remember, icap as a closed-end fund does not have the luxury of new funds flowing into the fund itself unlike other businesses eg insurance companies, have steady flow of premiums.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-11-22 17:08 | Report Abuse

A lot of "hot air" from raider.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-22 17:30 | Report Abuse

How can the continuously outflow of cash to pay the gaji of ttb n co

help to preserve or grow the NAV in the long run ?

NAV is the personal property of ttb n co n can onli be used to pay the

gaji of ttb n co onli and cannot be used to pay anything to the

shareholders ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-22 17:47 | Report Abuse

"Appropriate allocation of earned profit by the managers include:

1. Shares buyback and cancellation of shares. #
2. Dividends
3. Investments in assets for growth.
4. Acquisition of other companies to increase the company's competitive advantage. "

3iii laws of investment written in stone !

Good for ICap to follow the above 3iii law of investment.

Can assets grow when the assets got so mani red financial reports ?

The earned profit can only be used to pay the gaji of ttb n co ?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-11-22 20:41 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-22 21:13 | Report Abuse

Again, ahbah claimed to be novice but can very cleverly twist and turn the facts to suit his motives....

Very simple logic:

share buyback,
max 10% of total shares issued, assuming @ RM2.45, NAV RM450mlm = RM34.3mln
dividend payout, say 10 sen per share or RM14mln

Total cash outflow from share buyback & dividend payout = RMRM48.3mln or approx. 11% of NAV
NAV WILL SHRINK PERMANENTLY, IF DONE EVERY YEAR

Fees paid to fund manager and investment adviser = 1.5% p,a, of NAV
PAID TO GROW THE NAV

Once share buyback and dividend are paid, investors will expect them to continue, the positive impact on the share price would diminish over time. BUT, when these "goodies" are removed, it may cause the share price to drop drastically.

BY THEN, WHAT IS LEFT FOR THE LONG-TERM SHARE OWNERS??

Those who have been pushing hard to wind-up icap in the near future may get quick gain and move somewhere else BUT those who are truly retail, main street share owners have to find another fund manger with equivalent track record or better to invest their money. Sadly, until now, like JohnDough said, still no one can come up with a fund that has delivered 9% CAGR since 2005 safely and transparently.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-11-22 21:22 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-22 23:13 | Report Abuse

jeydan89 are you ttb or employee of icap?

suggest you go https://www.dynaquest.com.my/

sign up and read Dr Neoh articles. It tells you about current malaysia situation and find ways to share with how to improve investment results. He don't gives singular value investing to readers.

I read wannabe Warren Buffett of Malaysia and Dr Neoh.
Perhaps you should too.

Got competition got improvement.
Don't confine to philosophy only and buffett here buffett there.
it closed your mind.
once your mind closed, so do your investment performance.

like icap performance la. safe as FD, but without FD interest to accrued to holder.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-22 23:21 | Report Abuse

my advise to existing holder. Be smart, artibrage icap, wind up get instant profit realized 9% annualized from icap.

The allure of management fee, icap will definitely reintroduce new icap v.2. Ask youself, definately one. Human nature ma.... that time if you still really love icap FM skill, you can reinvest back in in icap v.2.


alternative history-----keep holding icap. being preached that you got that unrealized 9% annualized profit in icap.
if fund manager no good enough to face a new investing situation moving forward, if la, you are risk of losing that unrealized 9% with time. in 2024, you might be looking at icap stock ticker at RM1.70/share.


most important is you got freedom of choice. maximize it wisely. you are investor ma. we invest for freedom of choice. that is what we want right?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-23 12:41 | Report Abuse

"JohnDough said, still no one can come up with a fund that has delivered 9% CAGR since 2005 safely and transparently.
"

JohnDough is correct - Icap delivered 9% CAGR.

But only the gaji of ttb n co got the 9% CAGR

The Icap share div. no got the 9% CAGR.

or / n

The Icap share price no got the 9% CAGR.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-23 12:49 | Report Abuse

Can share buy back using cash Rm2.42 to buy NAV Rm3.20 shrink the NAV

of Icap ?

ahbah is just a novice investor onli n no got go school to learn about

stock investment.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-23 13:03 | Report Abuse

excerpt from the interview of Dr Neoh Soon Kean with The Edge dated May 29 2017. (cant believe I still keep it)


1. What is your ulterior motive then?
Dynaquest has been a very successful investor in its own right. In fact, Dynaquest has achieved a compound average annual return of 15.5% over the last 37 years. We had a very good track record because we work from a fantastic database, whose data is at present sold only to certain investors at a very high price. Three years ago, we decided to put our database onto the Cloud, and this project will be completed in the third quarter of this year. The good news is that the database will be made available in real time to the public at a much lower price.

2. Most fund managers want to meet the management before they invest in a company. but why do you insist that Dynaquest be strictly data-driven.
I think, to a certain extent, I can judge a person by his action and his demeanour. If a company has been telling you nice stories every year, but its result have never been good (sound familiar???), what is the point of interviewing the company? But if a company tends to be conservative and keeps saying that next year will be challenging, and yet its performance is reasonably good, again, there is no point interviewing it. because its action speak louder than its words. (pause a while, said 15% for 37 years VS 9% since inspection........ pause, pause and think)

3. The likes of Dr Tan Chong Koay, Cheah Cheng Hye, Fong Siling and Koon Yew Yin are prominent investors (no mentioned your FM le, wonder why.....) who made a name for themselves in the investment fraternity. Would you regards yourself as an investment guru?
No, no, no.... Sir Isaac Newton, one of the greatest scientists of all time, said, 'If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' I would never dare to compare myself with somebody like Warren Buffett. My record is nothing compared to his. (Pause...invert it, somebody seems doing otherwise here, claiming he is better than....) Again, if I can see better, it is by standing on the shoulders of thinkers like Benjamin Graham, Sir John Templeton and Peter Lynch. These are the real gurus, who are far, far superior to me, (pause again....somebody seems otherwise here....) and gave me a lot of wisdom. Everything I say has been said by at least one of them before.





Somebody sue The Edge recently right? Wonder why again. Conspiracy theory? or not worth a mentiond because of weak investment performance???... banyak questions here...







Go Figure...I like this word.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-23 13:49 | Report Abuse

"JohnDough said, still no one can come up with a fund that has delivered 9% CAGR since 2005 safely and transparently.
"

Mr. John, Cheoky got answered your above question ?

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-11-24 20:02 | Report Abuse

Lol, seems like it’s been another salty week for you all.

If I go to www.icapital.my, I can see everything I need to know as an investor – I can see the performance, I can see the benchmark, I can see what has transpired in the past.

In fact, when I go through ICAP’s annual reports, I can track every single stock that ICAP has ever bought, how much each stock gained and even the few that made losses.

I cannot find any of this anywhere else, at any fund, even the one cheoky is talking about (actually I can't find much information on this recommendation?)

And when you think about it this way, no one in Malaysia is able to provide this. Is this simple enough for you?

Again, I have said – no fund – 9% performance, safe, transparent and so accessible. It is unmatched, and none of you, despite so many repeatable posts, have been able to prove me wrong.

Lets look at from another angle. You say ICAP is a poor product. There's probably over 100 registered funds in Malaysia. The majority not only have poor transparency (zero is as transparent as ICAP), they are also performing very poorly and most charge stupid fees. This is why you all can’t hardly find any – it has been months since I started this challenge.

So are you suggesting that all funds in Malaysia should be gotten rid of? Another factor to consider is, if you can do better, you wouldn’t be posting here very often and would be much busier (…. and have a life)

I have said it before and I will say it again. Each investor has the prerogative to invest with whoever they want, can even DIY – up to you. But what I, and many investors that invest with TTB for many years want is very simple – someone we trust, can perform, safe and transparent. ICAP ticks all the boxes. This is why we stick with him.

And that is also why, every single year, despite salty people like yourselves talking nonsense but trying to sound smart, shareholders vote against London. And you will see, in 2020, it will repeat. When that happens, you will still probably be in this forum, repeating the same thing.

It kinds of remind me of the flat-earthers – they just can’t seem to accept reality. Quite sad really.

And stockraider, seem to be repeating about stock buyback. As I have said, if it were to work, why is it that London bought +20% and discount still there? Since we are repeating like parrots, I will repeat also – why is it that the discount persist since London bought in 2011? Also, how about you respond to me pointing out how you completely failed in both counting (“2.5% fee”) and comprehending (what Berkshire Hathaway actually is)? For ease of reference, I am referring to your post on 12th of November and my post on 15th of November.

Think more, talk less. It’s good for your health. The level of debate here is *yawn* so once a week is enough I think. Come up with something better and make it worth my time.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-24 21:58 | Report Abuse

Onli the gaji of ttb n co n NAV of Icap got the 9% performance.

The ICap div of ICap no got the 9% performance !

or / n

ICap share price also no got the 9% performance !

Verdict : Onli ttb n co got the 9% performance but ICap shareholders no

got the 9% performance.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-24 22:35 | Report Abuse

oh accessible, my chinac25 or PAMC25 is equally accessible to icap. And plus with less discounted to NTA.

Johnny Johnny go to papa.

Posted by paperplane > 2019-11-24 22:36 | Report Abuse

Maybe i shld also start closeend fund, and get myself a ferrari or lambo

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-24 22:37 | Report Abuse

Again, I have said – no fund – 9% performance, safe, transparent and so accessible. It is unmatched, and none of you, despite so many repeatable posts, have been able to prove me wrong.
---oh Johnny Johnny yes papa, eating sugar not papa, telling lie? no papa... open your mouth oh haha...

Dont try portray transparency and safe are the exclusive characteristics in icap, which do not existing in other funds. These characteristics are prerequisite in all funds. They are not exclusive and exist in Icap only, Johnny Johnny ar.. otherwise the FM is in jail already lo.

unrelated forumers here comment or in your opinion condemn icap. It is because of its poor peformance under same time and condition. You want compare? I given the examples already ma. Pangolin, Acera and latest the Dynaquest. What is Icap risk-adjusted return in comparison. In over the counter market, it is even poorer than my China C25 index fund. HELLO? cant see?

It is good for your health to shut up instead to pusing multiple forumers comments here.

oh Johnny Johnny, open your mouth oh haha!

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-24 22:46 | Report Abuse

The one who takes investor/potential investor's money. he should accept and subjected to investor judgement and criticism. dont be like ajib gor living in denial until one day woke up and realize the throne is lost.
If the one is really good, people will sing your song during AGM. just like in Public bank AGM.

just like we forumers earn money from bursa, we are subjected to market risk. lose money means lose money. we dont argue why market is wrong.

we accept and move on.

If such basic you cant take, I come replace you better.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-25 12:41 | Report Abuse

"Posted by paperplane > Nov 24, 2019 10:36 PM | Report Abuse

Maybe i shld also start closeend fund, and get myself a ferrari or lambo"

U also want the shareholders' fd interest to pay for your Ferrari ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-25 12:54 | Report Abuse

"oh Johnny Johnny, open your mouth oh haha! "

Johni is boasting his 9% CAGR gaji performance (partly made from

shareholders' fd interest) which all shareholders no got lah !

Johni sure k.o. the shareholders on this score n make the

shareholders stupit shareholders !

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-11-25 21:06 | Report Abuse

ICAP is listed according to the listing requirement of Bursa Malaysia and is approved by the Securities Commission of Malaysia. The Fund Manager is licensed by SC. The entire operations of ICAP is according to the law of Malaysia to protect the investors. When investors invest in ICAP shares, they should have read the prospectus and know and risk and reward of investing. If investors are not happy with the performance of the stocks that invested in, they should sell the shares and move on. It is really unethical to spread false information and use vulgar language to attack ICAP and the fund manager when they did not do anything wrong. I am sure wise and reasonable investors would know how to different who is right and who is wrong. I appeal to those first timer who come into this forum to be careful. Don't waste your time reading the low quality comments of people who constantly use dirty language and engage in internet bullying.

If you want to know about ICAP and the fund manager, go to their official websites. They are properly regulated by the government. In contrast, there are too many liars in this forum.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-11-25 22:54 | Report Abuse

In Bursa, there is Parkson and there is Topglove.

In Fund availability, there is Icap and there is Dynaquest/Areca/Pangolin.

In life, after making hard earned money, there is value destroying vehicle and there is value adding vehicle.

But we only have limited time. make the best selection.

low reply to low quality comments = low quality of both subjects.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-26 11:45 | Report Abuse

Here also got mani crabs who advise others to walk straight !

Please check it out. Thanks.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-27 18:28 | Report Abuse

@ ahbah : Here also got mani crabs who advise others to walk straight !

Totally agreed, ahbah please look at the mirror, you will find one there.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-27 20:46 | Report Abuse

jeydan89, we are BOTH crabs ! Praise to U n me !

Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2019-11-27 21:46 | Report Abuse

ICAP's acquired stocks this year performed very well

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-28 08:52 | Report Abuse

Which acquired stocks, please ? Thanks first.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-28 09:19 | Report Abuse

I agree the fund manager did not do anything wrong. He is smart n

brilliant n work hard to get his 9% performance in his gaji !

He will be super brilliant n fair if he work hard to ensure all

shareholders also got the same 9% performance for their investment in

ICap by rolling down ICap curtain.

Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2019-11-28 23:45 | Report Abuse

@ahbah,
ICAP's Annual Report

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-11-30 16:26 | Report Abuse

ahbah, I took facts not crabs, unlike u.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-30 20:54 | Report Abuse

Posted by jeydan89 > Nov 30, 2019 4:26 PM | Report Abuse

ahbah, I took facts not crabs, unlike u.

We are both crabs here n U are the mother crab here. Praise to U !

Posted by ahbah > 2019-11-30 21:01 | Report Abuse

KUALA LUMPUR: Boustead Holdings Bhd has posted a net loss of RM153.1 million in the first nine months ended September 2019, compared with a net loss of RM14.2 million in the same period last year.

For the third quarter, the group posted a net loss of 155 million against a net profit of RM7.3 million in the corresponding period a year ago.

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-12-01 17:33 | Report Abuse

Lol you guys go round and round but still haven’t addressed what I said?

I cannot find performance track record or information on Dynaquest? I already explained both Areca and Pangolin before – I can see what Areca invest in (top 5) and am not comfortable with their holdings, it is not transparent either. And Pangolin invests internationally. Most importantly, as I said, 9%, I am comparing to over 100 registered funds, it is amongst the crème de la crème – so if it is bad, then the unit trust funds industry should be shut down entirely. Argue properly ladies.

Ahbah – clearly you are cherry picking on Boustead – but nevertheless, this is what is great about ICAP – you can actually see which holdings are not performing or didn’t succeed. Super transparent. And you can trace everything, all the way back to IPO. When you do that, you will see there are hardly any losers, and way more multibaggers. This is how RM140 mln became RM450 mln. It is not true that I can do this with any other fund as you claim – I can see top 5 or maybe top 10 – but there is no way that I can trace everything. Most don’t even bother giving performance since inception, a critical criteria to consider. Conversely, I can access everything from www.icapital.my and the annual report.

When it is this transparent, and I can see what companies that TTB buys, how he buys and its track record – for myself and others that continue to vote against London in every AGM, this is why we invest with ICAP. As I have said before, if you are not happy – then DIY, or invest in other funds. No need to envy.

By the way, opening a closed end fund doesn’t get you Ferrari or Lambo – opening an open end mutual fund, which relies on large entry and exit fees, high management fees and high performance fees – does.

If opening a close end fund can easily buy you a Ferrari or Lambo, why is it that ICAP remains the only closed end fund on the Bursa? Think please.

My mouth is hardly open – I think more than I talk. Something that you should seriously consider too, judging by your weak arguments. Learn from Stockraider – he has now taken my advice and have gone on a sabbatical.