Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-02 17:17 | Report Abuse

"Ahbah – clearly you are cherry picking on Boustead "

Posted by ahbah > Oct 18, 2019 9:03 AM | Report Abuse

ICap got strike a gold mine in Padini ! Congratulations !

Mr John, all my posts are facts n fair comments based on facts. U can

see I no pick cherry. As I stay in the kampong, I only pick coconuts !

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-12-03 14:39 | Report Abuse

Another crab talk by the king of crabs!!

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-12-03 14:59 | Report Abuse

Is Dynaquest managing any funds, what's the performance, can't seem to find.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-12-03 20:10 | Report Abuse

No need find la. I fabricate one la.

Just be satisfied with unable realized 9% annualized holding, let the best of the best earn the deserving rm8mil, you continue be part owner of this fund. The most transparent and safest fund in market equity. That is the best option in bursa OK. Don't try to have second thought there are better fund out there OK.

Cos there are none. At least in your mind.

Tick tok tick tok.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-12-04 12:36 | Report Abuse

ICAP is a closed-end fund and it is different in many ways from a normal listed company. Many Malaysians are not familiar with closed-end fund, hence they talk nonsense and mislead others. Closed-end funds are very popular in the developed countries because investors over there took the trouble to know what is so unique about closed-end fund and took advantage of it.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-12-04 13:39 | Report Abuse

Be a serious investor, do your homework. Don't listen to people to talk nonsense in forums like this one.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-04 18:12 | Report Abuse

ICAPITAL.BIZ BHD: How much are the fees of closed-end fund and mutual funds? Examine their costs.

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/general/134913.jsp

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-04 20:31 | Report Abuse

All talk here is crab talk or nonsense talk !

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-04 20:38 | Report Abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wQFaX83l1E

Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2019-12-05 00:27 | Report Abuse

@JohnDough,
No use preaching to non-believers. They don't place much importance on integrity & accountability of management.

To each its own.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-05 09:08 | Report Abuse

Got any use to keep on boasting about the 9% performance which all

ICap shareholders no got ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-05 09:47 | Report Abuse

I onli place importance on what I got and put inside my pocket onli !

What I see n no got onli make me bitter, salty n angry !

Mr John got understand the above ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-05 09:54 | Report Abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOEYjvTcyOQ

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-05 17:31 | Report Abuse

I must conclude Mr John n mani others also must be in the tan & co

bcos onli they got the 9% performance in their gaji.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-12-07 12:55 | Report Abuse

A very important lesson for TTB for holding on its losers & cutting out the winners in icap loh..!!

Cutting Your Losses

Imagine this, you had a cut and is currently bleeding, what would your reaction be. Would you wait and see if the bleeding would stop by itself? Perhaps if the wound is small and the bleeding seems likely to stop. But what if after a short while, the bleeding seems particularly bad and did not stop - what would you do then? Most likely you would take action to stop the bleeding right? Also the worse the wound, the more drastic an action you’d take right? You would certainly not let yourself bleed until you fall unconscious or worse surely.

I think this is the same with cutting financial losses with stocks that you own. Why is it important to cut your losses? If you think that the company that you bought is a good company why should you sell at a loss just because the stock price of the company drops ‘temporarily’? Afterall, the company is not likely to go bankrupt soon. Sure the price of it’s stock will rise again soon. Do you notice all the above are what ifs statements?

It’s certainly very emotional to cut losses because once you own the stock you create an emotional hope to it. But when your stock drop below the price that you bought it at, at some point you will need to cut it loose and stop bleeding. And like bleeding, the longer you wait (if it did not stop on its own) the worse it might get.

To drive the point in on the importance of having a strategy of cutting losses (vs the buy and hold strategy), have a look at the curve below. If your initial investment had a loss of 10%, by cutting loss at this level (10%), you will only need to reinvest the capital that you have remaining with something that have gain of 11% to recover your losses. However, if you only decided to cut losses after your investment drops to 40% it’s value your recovery investment will need to have a profit of 67% - something quite challenging but perhaps possible.

However if you waited till you lost half of your investment value to cut losses – you will now needed something that gain you 100% just to recover back to your original level of capital, very tough even with good circumstances.

In my last post, I mentioned a portfolio of investment that had a loss of over 25% over 2 years. If I set my cut loss level appropriately for the stocks, perhaps this loss can be reduced. Certainly I don’t want to wait for the losses to accumulate to 40% before cutting my losses.

So what is the level I should set for cutting losses? Obviously different people would have a different appetite for risk. But I think the first question would be what is the upside of the stock – ie. How much are you expecting (not hoping) to gain from your purchase. If you keep your cut loss limit low ie 20% and below as not to fall into the exponential recovery requirements from the ‘loss’ curve below then you could go with rules like half of expected gain.

For example if your expected gain is 16% you could set your cut loss to be at 8%. With this strategy your risks of upside and downside about breaks even and with even a 50-50 chance in your portfolio of gains you would make money or at least break even.

One last thing, unless you are a day trader, it’s important to filter out the noise in your cut loss levels, so usually using the closing price as your reference would work better than tracking the price throughout the day which may make you cut your losses prematurely. On the other hand you should not wait out too long as a rapid drop in prices would quickly take out much more losses that you had anticipated to cut.

Let’s apply this strategy of 8% cut losses and 16% profit strategy on the same portfolio of stocks that I use in the last post where I posted a loss of over 25% with hold-a-long-time method after the same period of 2 years. In addition I also use a strategy of buying back the stock: if after 2 consecutive month that the stock stays in the uptrend I will buy back in the 3rd month if the uptrend remains. Stocks are sold or bought only at the beginning of the month (means you only track the stock once a month!).

I think this represents a very conservative way of managing your stocks and most will not probably use this strategy, especially on taking profit. Just to note that no profit managed to be taken using this strategy for the duration of the 2 years.

With this simple strategy the 25% losses earlier have been reduced to under 17%. Quite an amazing feat seeing how simple and primitive the strategy used – where little thinking and analyzing is involved. Also need to note that all of the stocks chosen at the end of 2 years are on a downtrend.

The table below compares this simple strategy compared to buy and hold, for the same set of stocks that is not performing that I mentioned in my last post.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-12-07 12:55 | Report Abuse

I think with a little bit more thought into the profit taking process and some better chart analyses we should be able to cut these losses even more or even start to make some profits despite an overall downtrend.

For me I feel like a strategy of cutting losses at some point is much more preferable to the hold strategy, even for long term investors especially for those of us who have limited resources to invest and cannot let our money ‘rest’ on a stock for an extended time waiting for the price to ‘surface’

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-12-08 20:10 | Report Abuse

Ahbah your post talking about fees (https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/general/134913.jsp) – that guy can’t even count “The size is $USD1.3b = RM5.5b. Note the Front load Fee is 5.5%, If you invest RM1m, you only get 94.5% of 1m = RM945000, RM5500 is the "entry fee”. Well, it is actually RM55,000 lol... it explains the quality of your arguments. Nevertheless, it supports my whole point about iCAP and closed end funds – there are no buy in or exit fees and in ICAP’s case, zero performance fee. So if you think ICAP’s 1.5% with no entry/exit fee and no performance fee is “bad”, then think about all the mutual funds out there.

I will repeat: this is why ICAP remains the only closed end fund on Bursa, because fund managers make way more from open-end funds, they don’t even have to perform, they just need the sales team to continue churn clients’ money – that is the business model. I and many others (that is, shareholders who continue to vote against London every year) am thankful that there is a product like ICAP on the market. As I said, if ICAP doesn’t suit you, then can DIY, or can go and buy other funds. It’s a free market.

Padini aside, don’t forget Petronas Dagangan, F&N, Integrax, P.I.E, Astro, VADS , Hai-O, KLK, and more that were sold for handsome profits. How else did RM140 mln grow to RM450 mln? And don’t forget, both Boustead and Parkson were multiples of its value in the past, for instance, in FY13, partial shares of Boustead and Parkson were sold for 106% and 260% gains respectively. See what I mean about transparency?

Furthermore, “investing is most intelligent when it is most businesslike” – true value investors don’t think about cutting losses (am looking at you Stockraider – cut and paste other people’s thoughts? Scared now to put out your own after multiple blunders?) – this is a trader’s mindset. Nothing wrong with it, if you believe in this strategy – then go put your money with a trader or be a trader yourself.

However, time and again, in numerous studies and evidence itself (Charlie Munger, Mohnish Pabrai, Seth Klarman, Warren Buffett etc.) – by far value investing has been proven superior. There may be periods where it underperforms – like the tech boom in the late 90’s and in more recent times (which is why Warren Buffett’s cash is now more than US$120 bln) – but it is time tested because it is conservative, it thinks more about the downside than the upside. Value investors do not think in 5 year terms – they think in intergenerational terms. Capital preservation is paramount. If you don’t like it, its okay – again, can go DIY and/or there are other funds out there – take your pick. As Enigmatic correctly pointed out, to each its own. No need to be jelly beans.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-08 20:40 | Report Abuse

If we no like any closed end fund, we all can go DIY. Agreed !

But when any closed end fund is trading at a big discount near its

maturity / renewal date, mani closed end fund vultures, even as far as

from UK, will come n look for their food.

When big vultures come, small robins also will join in to get their

shares.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-08 20:59 | Report Abuse

Mr John, I find your post on ICap investment informative. I must admit

it is banyak susah to strike gold mine all the times when we go mine

prospecting exploration.

Maybe we have to cap the exploration expenses.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-12-09 22:31 | Report Abuse

It is very sad that when objective arguments are posted, we are labelled as TB & Co.

While others continue their bashing by repeating their fallacies over and over again, just to cite a few here:-

- annualised return over the last 5 yrs only 1% (Fact is, over 14 yrs is 9%),

- profits/returns all earned to pay FM and its employees' salaries and shareholders get nothing (Fact is, FM fees only 0.75% p.a. of NAV. In fact, profit is not even the correct barometer to use for performance comparison of a CEF. WHY? ICAP as a long-term investor, hardly sells any shares frequently. NAV should be used instead. Even when NAV is rising, the fee rate is still the same, no performance fee paid to incentivize the FM). The NAV is already net off the FM fees belong to the shareholders, that's why, it is also known as SHAREHOLDERS EQUITY or SHAREHOLDERS' FUNDS, as per the AR.

- Those who invest in ICAP for long-term will be losers in the end, better push for ICAP to wind-up next year, can gain more than 30% (fact is, I don't mind if there are plenty of other performing CEFs in Bursa or other equivalent funds to choose from but sadly, Bursa only has 1 CEF, ie, ICAP, as JohnDough said, haven't found any other equivalent funds as conservative and transparent as ICAP)

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-13 17:11 | Report Abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wQFaX83l1E

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-12-15 17:07 | Report Abuse

Ahbah, thanks for the compliment. Over the years, reading icapital.biz and learning how to do thorough research (learning how to learn) have taught me how to reduce exploration expenses. No short cuts in life. Not many appreciate how difficult it really is to invest successfully and sustainably over the longer-term. It doesn't have to be overly complicated either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kax8XnBU1ik

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart) > 2019-12-15 17:28 | Report Abuse

>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Dec 7, 2019 12:55 PM | Report Abuse

I think with a little bit more thought into the profit taking process and some better chart analyses we should be able to cut these losses even more or even start to make some profits despite an overall downtrend.

For me I feel like a strategy of cutting losses at some point is much more preferable to the hold strategy, even for long term investors especially for those of us who have limited resources to invest and cannot let our money ‘rest’ on a stock for an extended time waiting for the price to ‘surface’


>>>>>>>


Raider has no credible long term track recod. He posts a lot of craps all over the place. Also, devoid of honesty.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-12-15 17:29 | Report Abuse

He bought a lot of SAM lately

So did I

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart) > 2019-12-15 17:30 | Report Abuse

When you talk about icap, its track record is CAGR of 9% + since inception.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-15 19:31 | Report Abuse

Ahbah, thanks for the compliment. Over the years, reading icapital.biz and learning how to do thorough research (learning how to learn) have taught me how to reduce exploration expenses. No short cuts in life. Not many appreciate how difficult it really is to invest successfully and sustainably over the longer-term. It doesn't have to be overly complicated either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kax8XnBU1ik

Mr John, U now got know I always give fair comments based on facts.

I thank U very much for your understanding.

Posted by newbie911 > 2019-12-16 12:49 | Report Abuse

Bought a lot of sam, is nth also.
Most his pick go holland.
Before tis...talk coke.
Said warren buffet of asia.
Pick like shit.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-12-17 13:17 | Report Abuse

For the latest past 5 years ever since icap started investing in fixed deposits, this company registered only 1% return pa compound loh....!!

If u look into 2018, Icap in fact is losing monies with negative return mah......!!

We are coming to end 2019, if u look at icap u will expect it will have another bleak year loh...!!

Ask yourself how long as an investor in icap u want to suffer leh ?? It is already a long 6 yrs of consecutive poor performance mah.....!!

Salvation is coming in 2020, U CAN JOIN CITY OF LONDON.....TO VOTE CLOSE DOWN OF ICAP & EARN A COOL 30% GAIN LOH.....!!

TAKE THIS WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY & DON MISSED THIS OPPORTUNITY IN 2020 LOH..!

TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN.....!!

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-12-18 20:14 | Report Abuse

Since inception in Oct 2005, ICAP's NAV has achieved an annual compound return of 8.7%. Not a bad performance at all.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2019-12-18 20:20 | Report Abuse

This is a consistent performance over 15 years.

Posted by Nepo > 2019-12-19 16:25 | Report Abuse

yes, good performance, but if it declares 3% dividend annually, not better than some superior funds.

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-12-22 20:15 | Report Abuse

Ahbah, no, I do not believe you give fair comments based on facts – it is only 2 post up of mine that I pointed out how the link you were referring to is flawed (the poster in the link can’t even count). Don’t misunderstand my thanking you as any form of endorsement of what you are posting – which in my view, is of low quality, not dissimilar to what Stockraider typically posts. In other words, no credibility.

Analysis I respect is one of high quality, well-reasoned and intelligent. This is why I said I read www.icapital.biz. This week’s main write-up is a great example, explaining in detail the most important rule of investing as espoused by Buffett – rule number 1, don’t lose money, rule number 2, remember rule number 1, and strong and sustainable performance of ICAP's fund manager over the long-term.

So many talk about compound gains, not many remember compound loss. As I said in my previous post, not many appreciate how hard it is to invest. This is due to unfair odds – it is hard to get 100% gain, but easy to get 50% loss. Most important of all is the consistency and integrity of the fund manager – it is not just about the performance, it is also about the sustainability of the performance.

So bearing all of this in mind, and to add to the fact of the open-end buy-in/exit business model which set the odds against investors even before the fund invests your money – is why ICAP is held and bought more and more by those with the long-term in mind.

The intention of London and many posters’ here are short-term. They are not the majority. If you follow and look closely at the Top 30 shareholder list in ICAP’s annual report, you will see that many investors that were there in the beginning (IPO) are still there today. They have, in fact, bought more over the years. This is why every year London votes lose, and will lose again in 2020.

ICAP is a product for those that believe has a very long-term view in building wealth. As I have said, intergenerational.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-25 23:01 | Report Abuse

I have no control on how my posts are viewed by others.

But I have total control over my posts n comments n I make sure they are fair n true based on true facts.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-27 10:14 | Report Abuse

Should we respect those people whom others also no respect them ?

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-12-28 09:46 | Report Abuse

No need to earn respect from those who tell lies and make others to believe it is the gospel truth.

Posted by jeydan89 > 2019-12-28 10:32 | Report Abuse

ICAP's compound return of 8.7% over 15 years (since inception in 2005) was derived from investing in Malaysian listed equities only. NAV more than tripled from RM0.99 since inception to RM3.13 as at 24.12.2019.

ICAP does not invest in derivatives and no borrowings, need shareholders unanimous approval to borrow money - a very high threshold quite impossible to achieve.

So, with a small amount of investment, you get a decent return but most of all, a safe and sound investment.

Posted by Philip Greta > 2019-12-28 10:33 | Report Abuse

In my opinion, mistakes of omission is just as important.

One of Warren buffet defining quality is his ability to review and look back on the deals that he DIDN'T make, just as much as the profitable investments that he did make.

The key hallmark of an excellent investor is conviction and the ability to pile huge amounts of capital into investments which he views as excellent choices.

TTB has chosen to INVEST your money into fixed deposit ( 280 million) at 3.35% rates, while choosing o keep 152 million in investments that were altogether.... Unspectacular.

For these activities he has taken in 2019.

Directors fees amounting to 269k.
Fund management fee of 3.596m.
Investment advisory fee of 3.596m.
Professional fee of 247k.

FYI, 280 million at 3.35% rates is 9.8 million.

See how much alpha you are getting there?

Posted by Philip Greta > 2019-12-28 10:59 | Report Abuse

On mistakes of omission. If you wanted to be a long term investor with no worries, no "professional fees" and better than fixed deposit rates, and if you wanted to discard the last 5 years results for icap and use inception day returns, how about comparing long term equity returns with my respected father in law.

He was a banker with public Bank who bought and kept his entire networth working in kl hq branch of public Bank, he has bought and kept pb stock his entire life, reinvesting dividends into public Bank stock. His 15 year returns of public Bank, including the huge drop this year which we were largely able to avoid, trumps any investment in ICAP hands down.

How about another blue chip safe stock, Pchem, or Hong Leong or even Maybank. Or maxis, Digi, or topglov, ql, even hapseng. All are huge conglomerates with safe business, boring, slow business models never guaranteeing huge profits, but safe long term boring returns. So far each of these safe boring returns have a 15 year track record far better than ICAP.

If we were to use NAV, as is TTB clarion call to define his right to charge fees, instead of share price value, all of these companies have grown leaps and bounds, while leaving ICAP in the dust. The assets, the business itself would long outlive the directors and founders.

3 reasons why you should never buy into ICAP.

1. What happens if TTB croaks? Who controls the fund and it's future direction? What choice do you have as a minor investor to influence this?
2. Liquidity. By its very nature CEF will always trade at a discount to its nav value due to its structure and liquidity. You could easily buy and sell your share in padini if you bought it today, for the market value. You would be unable to sell icap for its market value, if ever.

Posted by Philip Greta > 2019-12-28 11:05 | Report Abuse

Most importantly:
3. Leverage. The main reason for the capitalization of a company is so that outside investors can fund the business to achieve scale, monopoly and take on major investments. Else there would be no purpose into it. The CEF takes on a fixed amount of money but with a large sum to maximize results and returns. However, if your manager tells you year in and year out of a incoming crisis, and keeps 280 million in fixed deposit year in and year without any method of mitigation,

I call it a mistake of omission.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-28 11:08 | Report Abuse

" Posted by Philip Greta > Dec 28, 2019 10:33 AM | Report Abuse

In my opinion, mistakes of omission is just as important.

One of Warren buffet defining quality is his ability to review and look back on the deals that he DIDN'T make, just as much as the profitable investments that he did make.

The key hallmark of an excellent investor is conviction and the ability to pile huge amounts of capital into investments which he views as excellent choices.

TTB has chosen to INVEST your money into fixed deposit ( 280 million) at 3.35% rates, while choosing o keep 152 million in investments that were altogether.... Unspectacular.

For these activities he has taken in 2019.

Directors fees amounting to 269k.
Fund management fee of 3.596m.
Investment advisory fee of 3.596m.
Professional fee of 247k.

FYI, 280 million at 3.35% rates is 9.8 million. "

The above is truly an outstanding post !

CHEERS !

Greatest congratulations !

See how much alpha you are getting there?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-28 11:20 | Report Abuse

Got mani born lucki people who work as fd errant boys n got

paid gaji by tons of moni ?

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-28 11:40 | Report Abuse

Of course, these born lucki people will keep on fighting to protect

their big fat gaji by yelling they see pontianak standing in the

future, yr in yr out.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-28 12:09 | Report Abuse

I got a broken clock.

And yet my broken clock can say the correct times 2 times in a day, not yrs.

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-28 12:17 | Report Abuse

If I keep on saying non stop, the mkt will rise one day, sure the mkt will rise one day but I no know when that one day will come lah !

But I will be correct like my broken clock !

Posted by ahbah > 2019-12-29 22:40 | Report Abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wQFaX83l1E

Posted by JohnDough > 2019-12-29 23:58 | Report Abuse

As I have said many times before, you can always DIY. But if you want professional management, one that is consistent, transparent and performs – then ICAP is a fantastic hard to beat product – low management fee, no performance fee, no load buy in and selling out. As I have said before, if you think ICAP fees are terrible, then think about all the billions invested in mutual funds. If you think ICAP performance is terrible, then again, think about all the billions invested in mutual funds.

If you know Public Bank so well and want to put 100% of your assets into it – great. But not everyone does, and many have different requirements for their Fund Manager. What the majority of investors in ICAP want is a manager that is trust worthy, thinks long-term and is safe and consistent in his/her actions.

As I have said many times before, this is why London keeps losing every year at AGM and the majority vote for TTB. Furthermore, long-term investors keep adding to their holdings – as I mentioned, just look at the top 30 – most have been there since the beginning.

It is also not true that CEF always trade at a discount, evidenced by the thousands of CEFs that are available in UK, US and Australia. For ICAP, I have said also many times – why is it that the discount has persisted since London bought in?

It is true that TTB has kept a large amount of cash for some time – but if I was running a business and I do not have productive use for my cash, do I keep expanding my plant or do I wait for a low-risk high return opportunity?I would wait – and so would many shareholders in ICAP.

This may be difficult to understand, but it is why there are so few billionaires around that can keep it that way for a long time. It is why Warren Buffett has over US$120 bln in cash and keeps growing. Rule number one, don’t lose money – rule number two, remember rule number one. I am sure you know of at least one person who had it all and then lost everything overnight.

This is what ICAP is all about – long-term, sustainable wealth. If it is not for you, then that is okay. But it is for many others. By the way, now that a lot of counters have plunged, ICAP is buying – TTB spoke about this at the last AGM. So if you are not salty, then come to the next AGM, check out what’s in the portfolio, and watch London get beaten again.

Posted by Philip Greta > 2019-12-30 00:14 | Report Abuse

Why think? Warren buffet has already won his bet of low cost index funds against professionally managed funds ( with the similar model of charging fees like icap).

Mutual funds are already known to be bad. Which is why we are here in this forum to learn how to do things better.

Why even bother posting in this forum if all you are interested in doing is putting your money and your fate in the hands of TTB?

Over 15 years, if you placed your money in vanguard index fund you would have done spectacularly well, with no need for professional management.

Warren buffet has proven it time and again.

If you want to invest, invest in the company or business.

Avoid gurus who preach and charge you fees for professional management.

Low management fee?I would say it is very high for asking someone to put money in fixed deposit. I could do the same thing for a fraction of the price.


>>>>>>

if you think ICAP fees are terrible, then think about all the billions invested in mutual funds. If you think ICAP performance is terrible, then again, think about all the billions invested in mutual funds.

Posted by Philip Greta > 2019-12-30 00:30 | Report Abuse

This remark does not make sense.

If your fund manager is unable to achieve alpha, and he finds no good deals in which to invest in for an extended period of time I.e. he finds the market too expensive and risky, something is either wrong with the market or the manager. In either case, if he cannot achieve alpha he should do something similar to what wb did in dissolving the fund and returning the cash back to owners.

The owners could easily put the money into fixed deposit themselves without any need of a 3rd party professional fee.

Many shareholders would want to get back the money they invested in the business at market value, which would be achieved should the fund be dissolved and earnings returned.

As it is right now, it is simply a value trap where the fund manager is holding the fund hostage while bleeding the company slowly with losses from parkson, bousted etc ( whole charging fees for these costly mistakes).

It definitely should sell at a discount, I would not touch this stock with a ten foot pole unless a discount to par value was offered.

More importantly the discount arises because the "many" shareholders do not have a choice in the matter, therefore they are willing to sell it cheap to anyone who is interested in buying their share block from them.

Many many more investors are not biting unless more discount to nav is offered.

London was stupid to get in this mess in the first place. Now they are stuck and unable to leave hotel California.

Those who bought the stock in 2017 and 2018 received nothing for waiting except bitterness.

>>>>>>>

It is true that TTB has kept a large amount of cash for some time – but if I was running a business and I do not have productive use for my cash, do I keep expanding my plant or do I wait for a low-risk high return opportunity?I would wait – and so would many shareholders in ICAP.

Posted by ks55 > 2019-12-30 01:12 | Report Abuse

Hard to believe still got people interested in a conman as Fund Manager.
Check the performance over the years.
Check dividend payout.
Compare with what the conman get for his so-called 'professional fees' on Fund Management and Investment Advisory over the years.

Really a big joke to appoint such a conman to manage your money.
Vote with your legs.
Say bye-bye to TTB.

Posted by ks55 > 2019-12-30 01:15 | Report Abuse

Posted by ks55 > Sep 19, 2016 6:02 PM | Report Abuse X

Just focus on Parkson in AGM.
Ask TTB how much icap paid for the Parkson.
Ask how much dividend (inclusive of dividend in specie) so far received.
Ask how much was written off.
Ask how much the carrying cost per share.
Ask if he intend to further write down, and by how much.
Ask when is he going to sell Parkson share.

Parkson is doomed.
Doomed because of yesteryears business model.
Doomed because WC abusing and misusing Ah Kong's money for his own benefit.
Doomed because Parkson may face force selling any time when WC can't service interest on pledged securities, and his personal loan.