Posted by cnman53 > 2020-10-31 18:19 | Report Abuse

I do not envisage we can manage to get our proposals to be passed in the coming AGM because I think the majority of shareowners are not yet informed. But the enlightening process will be carried on in future even after the AGM further.

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-10-31 18:23 | Report Abuse

We have to make a formal proposal in the coming AGM to contest the reimbursement fees. Then even if it is not passed, we still have recourse in the following 7 years.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-01 00:38 | Report Abuse

The right to inspect and make copies of the constitution by shareholders is provided under Section 48 of the Companies Act 2016 https://www.ssm.com.my/Pages/Legal_Framework/Document/Act%20777%20Reprint.pdf
The standard charges for a copy is $3 (at least that's the price last time when I bought a copy in 2012) Any excuse that the company's consent is needed before you can inspect or get a copy is just a delaying tactic by management and is strictly against the Act. One can just go to the Registrar's office and get a copy in person on the spot, and any refusal will then be on record.
From public documents available, SC approved the application for dual listed fund by Capital Dynamics, and not the company, and from explanation given by TTB, it appears to be for a new fund and not iCap, but he failed to clarify how this new fund is supposed to help narrow the price discount, other than allowing investments in foreign markets? There is no necessity for a foreign listing to attract foreign investors, as they can do so freely, except the fund manager is trying to make things difficult for them. From what I can gather from the M&A, all references to the activities and objectives of the company are premised on being listed on Bursa. Even though it allows investments in foreign securities, there is no mention of getting the company listed overseas.
Shareholders should question the history of the transaction from its initiation to payment, as it stretches over quite a number of years and shareholders have completely no idea that they are going to have to pay for it. Write to the BOD before the meeting, so that they can prepare the answers before hand and not have any excuses not to answer them at the meeting.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-01 00:46 | Report Abuse

This reimbursement of expenses concerns corporate governance of the company and is more important than performance or portfolio allocation, which has been mandated to the fund manager and can be subjective and discretionary. Only need to determine whether it has been properly authorised, since payment is already made? As I have mentioned previously, COL better get someone to attend the AGM to properly look after their interests, if they have not asked questions already.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-11-01 12:33 | Report Abuse

“In 2003, Warren Buffett said “We love owning common stocks – if they can be purchased at attractive prices… Unless, however, we see a very high probability of at least 10% pre-tax returns, we will sit on the sidelines.”

We shouldn’t engage in false precision. Warren Buffett says, “We believe that if you can pinpoint it, you’re kidding yourself. Therefore, we think that when we make a decision there ought to be such a margin of safety – it ought to be so attractive – that you don’t have to carry it out three decimal places.” He continues: “We are very inexact… How certain we are is the most important part… you’d be amazed at how inexact we are.”

Charlie Munger says, “We never sit down, run the numbers out and discount them back to net present value… The decision should be obvious.””


Seeking Wisdom From Darwin to Munger by Peter Bevelin

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-01 12:38 | Report Abuse

BUT LOCKING INTO FIXED DEPOSITS TO SECURE MANAGEMENT FEES FOR 5 DAMN LONG YEAR ARE VERY STUPID & DISHONEST FOR THE UNIT HOLDERS POINT OF VIEW LOH..!!


Posted by JohnDough > Nov 1, 2020 12:33 PM | Report Abuse

“In 2003, Warren Buffett said “We love owning common stocks – if they can be purchased at attractive prices… Unless, however, we see a very high probability of at least 10% pre-tax returns, we will sit on the sidelines.”

We shouldn’t engage in false precision. Warren Buffett says, “We believe that if you can pinpoint it, you’re kidding yourself. Therefore, we think that when we make a decision there ought to be such a margin of safety – it ought to be so attractive – that you don’t have to carry it out three decimal places.” He continues: “We are very inexact… How certain we are is the most important part… you’d be amazed at how inexact we are.”

Charlie Munger says, “We never sit down, run the numbers out and discount them back to net present value… The decision should be obvious.””


Seeking Wisdom From Darwin to Munger by Peter Bevelin

Posted by ahbah > 2020-11-01 12:47 | Report Abuse

Icap is a FD management fund where cash is kept in banks for long period n where errant boys still got big fat gaji even during this susah time of covid-19 where mani people lost their rezeki ?

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-01 13:40 | Report Abuse

Mr DumbMoney, thank you for the information. Yes, the need to get recourse on the reimbursement for dual-listing case is getting firmer with just the publicly available info. Even without the M&A I think the public information already are sufficient to make a prima facie case.
I will be trying to request in the AGM for

1) Relook into the reimbursement item before adopting the Financial Accounts.
2) To propose to retrieve reimbursement amount from the recipient on grounds of transaction being ultra vires the company, not in the company's benefit and the fact being well known to the recipient

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-01 13:44 | Report Abuse

Yes, put aside the attention and discussion on performance for the time being. Just focus our attention on the dual-listing issue.

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-01 14:02 | Report Abuse

The request to relook into the reimbursement item before adopting the Financial Accounts is to be modified to:-

To relook into the reimbursement item before adopting the Financial Accounts And to adopt the Financial Accounts subject to further investigation into the matter and without prejudice to our company's recourse of action against the recipient in future.

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-01 14:06 | Report Abuse

Should be "our company's action of recourse against the recipient in future" instead of our company's recourse of action against the recipient".

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-01 16:07 | Report Abuse

Gentle reminder:
Have you as shareowner registered yourself to attend the virtual AGM on 28 Nov 2020 at 9.00 am?

Posted by fairplay > 2020-11-01 16:44 | Report Abuse

Page 122 of Prospectus of iCapital biz stated a list of investment restrictions imposed on it.. Item (iii) of 15.3 Investment restrictions mentioned 'the Company will Not invest in other collective investment vehicles Unless it is the most appropriate mechanism for investing in a particular country'. Hope this info is usefull

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-01 16:49 | Report Abuse

Why no mechanism on the restriction of putting more than 50% investable monies in FD for more than 3 yrs leh ??

If after putting so long like sohai cannot find anything....must return to shareholder those monies mah..!!

Posted by fairplay > Nov 1, 2020 4:44 PM | Report Abuse

Page 122 of Prospectus of iCapital biz stated a list of investment restrictions imposed on it.. Item (iii) of 15.3 Investment restrictions mentioned 'the Company will Not invest in other collective investment vehicles Unless it is the most appropriate mechanism for investing in a particular country'. Hope this info is usefull

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-01 17:26 | Report Abuse

P/S on the proposal to be made in the 16th AGM above
1)
Should add in the amount of RM6 million plus in order to show the material significance which warrants the proposal.
The amount is more than 0.25% of iCapital.biz's historical highest market capitalisation.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-01 18:11 | Report Abuse

For prima facie evidence, take a look at the announcement by iCap on its website on the 7 Nov 2012, which is the announcement by TTB about Capital Dynamics receiving Sc's approval for the dual listed fund, and compare it with the corresponding Bursa announcements by the company during that period. There is no such announcement by iCapital as required by the listing rules, unless it can be deemed not price sensitive and hence inconsequential.
In the announcement, it was mentioned that "the fund will be listed in both Kuala Lumpur and another country. There are ambiguities here. If iCapital was the fund he has mentioned, then since it is already listed on Bursa, the proper statement should be the Company will also be listed in another country. As it stands, the reasonable interpretation is that this will be an entirely new fund, and has nothing to do with iCapital itself. This then also tied in with Capital Dynamics making the announcement, and not the company.
In addition, the dual listing proposal is conditional upon no change in the BOD at the 2012 AGM, since the AGM, there has not been a single announcement by the company through Bursa of any further progress of the dual listed fund proposal, except some large expenses of $8.755 million was booked in the Feb 2020 quarterly results under professional fees and other operating expenses under footnote B1. There was no explanation of why this sudden jump in expenses was incurred and what was it for, until the 2020 annual report under footnote 12, as reimbursement of expenses incurred by the fund manager by the company.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-01 18:26 | Report Abuse

I have somehow figured out why some of my posts have mysteriously disappeared. It seems I cannot include direct links to outside web sites in the post, so I am trying to trick it by omitting the www prefix to the web page and just post it as "icapital.my/icapital-biz-berhad/" Type that in the search without the inverted commas, and Google will be smart enough to direct you to the web site. Look under "in the Media" and 11/07/2012 for the relevant announcement.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-02 14:07 | Report Abuse

Just a word of caution for everyone, this is a public blog and TTB has been known to take critics to court for defamation and won. So watch your language, and don't post any thing defamatory that cannot be proven in court. Words like under-performing in particular. Must specify the periods referred to, or against what benchmark.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-02 14:47 | Report Abuse

For anyting sensitive and for private consumption only, use the i3 Messenger app.

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-02 15:36 | Report Abuse

Mr DumbMoney,

Having gotten SC's approval for dual-listing in Hong Kong is only part of the journey. When the dual-listing plan was mooted, the expected risk and return should have been thoroughly thought over before going ahead.

For me who is a small time investor, the threshold to list in Hong Kong as imposed by HKEX is found out within a day with online search which cost me literally nothing. But the threshold is so high that if it were I, I would not have gone ahead to try further.

You may say, different people have different risk appetite. Fair. But for good corporate governance especially under the spirit of Independence, Intelligence and Integrity, at least an announcement should be published on Bursa and a meeting held for all shareowners to explain the expected risk and return of the project and why it should be attempted.

Announcement made in Bursa is compliance of regulation.
For iCapital.biz shareowners who have been supporting it loyally in the past umpteen years, the management should have called an AGM to seek members' opinion before going headlong into an insurmountable battle.

Worse still is the fees are to be borne by us.

If the project had been approved in AGM, we minority shareowners will have to abide by the majority decision.

But, without the AGM mandate, we don't know whether such action is the majority's wish or just a blunder by the management?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-02 15:50 | Report Abuse

cnman53 This is called transparency, or the absence of it. How many shareholders are aware that the company is going to be saddled with the bill all these years?

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-02 16:00 | Report Abuse

Under the Companies Act 2016, management of a company who shows gross disregard to protection of its assets can be viewed as Oppression on its minority shareholders.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-02 16:04 | Report Abuse

Have proper due diligence been done on getting a foreign listing? Can forget about Singapore, where all the Big 4 bank controlled closed end funds have gone into members liqudation some time back without any new listing. For Hong Kong, the present fund size does not even qualify, and who would need to have spent more than $6 million in professional fees to find that it is a dead end?

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-02 16:13 | Report Abuse

Mr DumbMoney

Please check i3 Messenger. P.m

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-02 16:34 | Report Abuse

RM6 million plus is a lot of money to small time shareowners like me who was led to believe that my investment will grow "exponentially" in the ensuing long boom.

You can imagine the heart break when you wake up from a long sound sleep to see that a chunk of your hard kept money suddenly vanished in thin air.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-11-02 16:43 | Report Abuse

Directors’ Shareholdings
Name of Directors
No. of shares held
Direct % Indirect %
Datuk Ng Peng Hong @ Ng
Peng Hay - - - -
Dato’ Sri Syed Ismail Bin
Dato’ Haji Syed Azizan - - - -
Dato’ Seri Md Ajib Bin Anuar - - - -
Boh Boon Chiang----




None of the directors in iCapital own shares in their company



:-(

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-02 17:37 | Report Abuse

Legally it is not wrong for a non-shareholder to be a director of a company.

In fact if they are non-shareholder, all the more they have to show Independence, Intelligence and Integrity in discharging their duties in protecting the shareowners' asset.

They should not be non-chalant and have to be seen to be diligent in carrying out their duties.

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-02 18:10 | Report Abuse

By the way, what is cost of a rubber stamp now?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-02 19:59 | Report Abuse

Like what they say about our government, voters get what they voted for, same for shareholders, who voted for the directors.

Posted by fairplay > 2020-11-02 23:04 | Report Abuse

iCapital announced to bursa that its EGM dated 21-11-2009 Passed ordinary resolution to retain its existing Investment Policy and Objective.This EGM was to explore 'global investing'. This resolution in line with BOD recommendation. The BOD advised shareholders via a Circular on the EGM to vote against another special resolution to change Investment Policy and Objective. Many clauses in M&A of iCapital have been amended in a few AGM
Now, iCapital booked substantial RM6.7 million expenses on failed "dual listing project". Is there any shareholders' approval obtained, such as in AGM or EGM?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-03 00:06 | Report Abuse

@fairplay If there has been no shareholders' approval, what are you going to do about it? Very simple actually. 1.Just need to determine whether the exercise required shareholders' approval and if it did, was it obtained? 2. Is it a related party transaction? If yes, was it approved by shareholders in general meeting as required by the law and listing rules? 3. Are the BOD authorised to approve a related party transaction on their own? 4. Is this a disclosable/material transaction that requires immediate disclosure? 5. Can this material amount be buried in a one sentence footnote in the accounts without proper explanation by management?

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-03 12:05 | Report Abuse

Mr DumbMoney remark above practically have covered all the relevant questions that need to be asked.
That is why I think in a forum like this, only then we can improve on the corporate governance of the company and hopefully to improve on the market price. NAV improvement is beyond our discussion until much later.

I would like all shareowners to take part in this forum to further the best interest of iCapital.biz. because in an AGM (in fact all AGMs, whether iCapital.biz or other companies) because of the constraint of time and facility, we as small shareowners will not be able to put up our views for the consideration of other shareowners.

Posted by Plantermen > 2020-11-03 12:09 | Report Abuse

Need to fine comb the nitty gritty details of the approval. The BOD have their valid reason for a y approval

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-03 12:29 | Report Abuse

I will be ready in a day or two to put up my proposal to requisite for reexamination on the dual-listing project reimbursement in the upcoming 16th AGM.

Without a copy of M&A, I also can envisage that being a small-time shareowner, my shareholding will not be sufficient to qualify for my proposal to be put up in the AGM, if the standard M&A requirement is used.

But rules and regulations are to provide a basis for minimum compliance.

For a company like iCapital.biz whose Independence, Intelligence and Integrity motto are well known, I hope the management can show its magnanimity and live out the spirit of its motto to allow my proposal to be tabled for discussion.

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-03 12:31 | Report Abuse

I wish all shareowners whether from the beginning like myself or came in later would put in your request to second my proposal.

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-03 12:35 | Report Abuse

I have briefly gone through the 2020 accounts.

I have in earlier AGM requested for for user friendly accounting notes or appendices to be appended in the annual accounts to reflect our motto of Independent, Intelligence and Integrity. But until now I do not see any improvement.

There are a few areas that I will go into in the future. But now everything has to be put on hold first. Our priority is on the dual-listing case at the moment.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-11-03 12:37 | Report Abuse

>>>>>

Posted by cnman53 > Nov 2, 2020 5:37 PM | Report Abuse

Legally it is not wrong for a non-shareholder to be a director of a company.

In fact if they are non-shareholder, all the more they have to show Independence, Intelligence and Integrity in discharging their duties in protecting the shareowners' asset.

They should not be non-chalant and have to be seen to be diligent in carrying out their duties.

>>>>>>>


Yes, we know that. But it would be nice if we have directors who also are investors in this fund so that their interests will be aligned with those of the minority shareholders.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-11-03 12:42 | Report Abuse

>>>>
cnman53 I will be ready in a day or two to put up my proposal to requisite for reexamination on the dual-listing project reimbursement in the upcoming 16th AGM.

Without a copy of M&A, I also can envisage that being a small-time shareowner, my shareholding will not be sufficient to qualify for my proposal to be put up in the AGM, if the standard M&A requirement is used.

But rules and regulations are to provide a basis for minimum compliance.

For a company like iCapital.biz whose Independence, Intelligence and Integrity motto are well known, I hope the management can show its magnanimity and live out the spirit of its motto to allow my proposal to be tabled for discussion.
03/11/2020 12:29 PM

cnman53 I wish all shareowners whether from the beginning like myself or came in later would put in your request to second my proposal.
03/11/2020 12:31 PM
>>>>>>>


Please c.c. to CITY OF LONDON INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT COMPANY LIMITED

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-03 12:42 | Report Abuse

Netx has gone thru development stage already spend Rm 200m loh...!!

The netx stage of commercialization more exciting towards making monies loh...!!

With cash hoard over Rm 126m....Netx has financial muscle loh...!!

U need to allow time for it to bear fruits loh..!

Posted by Good123 > Oct 28, 2020 5:26 PM | Report Abuse

Think long term

“The big money is not in the buying and selling, but the waiting” - Charlie Munger

Finally, patience. If you’ve been you’ll know that we’re long-term investors at heart.

As humans we generally have a tendency for activity, we always want to be doing something. In financial markets, that can take the form of buying and selling frequently.

However, if we buy and sell, we unnecessarily interrupt the 8th wonder of the world from working its magic: compound interest.

To illustrate, if you start with $1 and it increases by 1% each day and is compounded daily for a year, it grows to $37. That’s a 37 fold increase.

After 5 years, that initial dollar becomes $77,002,912.

So long term investing is where the big money is made.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-03 12:43 | Report Abuse

VERY IMPORTANT KEY POINT FOR INVESTMENT IN NETX TODAY LOH:

"It is like "management buyout" mah...!!
U think Management sohai ah? Simply buyout major shareholder fintec meh ?
They are the Insiders ...They Know the Best loh!!"

RAIDER VERY HAPPY U CAN MAKE ALOT OF MONIES IN NETX BUY AT 10 SEN TODAY LOH....!!

Netx Margin of safety with netx cash of 15 sen v share price of 10 sen lend further big support to their confidence loh..!!

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-03 12:45 | Report Abuse

Memang 3 tahun...lu cukup kaya on Netx loh...!!

By time...many many blockbusters commercialized already mah...!!

Yes u can plan to invest in Netx for 3 yrs with good return loh..!!

Posted by Victor Yong > Nov 3, 2020 9:06 AM | Report Abuse

Mereka yang takda wang yang banyak dan nampak potential netx sedang Sapu warrantnya, expiry date 3 tahun

Posted by cnman53 > 2020-11-03 12:46 | Report Abuse

Like what Mr DumbMoney has said, to increase the NAV is fund investment manager's job. Although we can put in our view, but the discussion will be protracted.

What we as shareowners can do is try to reduce the gap between market price and NAV. What we can do is to monitor on the management's moves in the public such as its public announcement, and the way its accounts are reported.

A company which complies with the minimum regulatory requirement can be called good.

But for a company like iCapital.biz, we as shareowners expect a higher grade than good. And to be considered as a great company (irrespective of its networth or market capitalisation), we need to improve on our transparency. And the word is improve. It should be a continual process of improving. Living on past laurel will breed complacence and complacence will lead to decline and ...

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-03 12:50 | Report Abuse

IF INCREASE IN NAV IS YOUR CRITERIA OF SUCCESSFUL INVESTMENT, THEN JUST BUY INTO NETX LOH...!!

Netx has gone thru development stage already spend Rm 200m loh...!!

The netx stage of commercialization more exciting towards making monies loh...!!

With cash hoard over Rm 126m....Netx has financial muscle loh...!!

U need to allow time for it to bear fruits loh..!
VERY IMPORTANT KEY POINT FOR INVESTMENT IN NETX TODAY LOH:

"It is like "management buyout" mah...!!
U think Management sohai ah? Simply buyout major shareholder fintec meh ?
They are the Insiders ...They Know the Best loh!!"

RAIDER VERY HAPPY U CAN MAKE ALOT OF MONIES IN NETX BUY AT 10 SEN TODAY LOH....!!

Netx Margin of safety with netx cash of 15 sen v share price of 10 sen lend further big support to their confidence loh..!!

Posted by cnman53 > Nov 3, 2020 12:46 PM | Report Abuse

Like what Mr DumbMoney has said, to increase the NAV is fund investment manager's job. Although we can put in our view, but the discussion will be protracted.

What we as shareowners can do is try to reduce the gap between market price and NAV. What we can do is to monitor on the management's moves in the public such as its public announcement, and the way its accounts are reported.

A company which complies with the minimum regulatory requirement can be called good.

But for a company like iCapital.biz, we as shareowners expect a higher grade than good. And to be considered as a great company (irrespective of its networth or market capitalisation), we need to improve on our transparency. And the word is improve. It should be a continual process of improving. Living on past laurel will breed complacence and complacence will lead to decline and ...

Posted by Jonathan Keung > 2020-11-03 12:50 | Report Abuse

Yes. BOD preferably need to have share holdings in the company. ( Otherwise they just take the gaji buts without considering the minority interest }

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-03 12:52 | Report Abuse

VERY IMPORTANT KEY POINT FOR INVESTMENT IN NETX TODAY LOH:

"It is like "management buyout" mah...!!
U think Management sohai ah? Simply buyout major shareholder fintec meh ?
They are the Insiders ...They Know the Best loh!!"

RAIDER VERY HAPPY U CAN MAKE ALOT OF MONIES IN NETX BUY AT 10 SEN TODAY LOH....!!

Netx Margin of safety with netx cash of 15 sen v share price of 10 sen lend further big support to their confidence loh..!!

Posted by Jonathan Keung > Nov 3, 2020 12:50 PM | Report Abuse

Yes. BOD preferably need to have share holdings in the company. ( Otherwise they just take the gaji buts without considering the minority interest }

Posted by fairplay > 2020-11-03 14:12 | Report Abuse

There are two directors in BOD who resigned this year 2020. One ex-director, Madam Leong So Seh is named as a director in another listed company, Southern Acids (M) Bhd. The resignation of 2 Directors would prompt shateholders to scrutinise corporate governance indepth

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-03 14:58 | Report Abuse

@fairplay If a director resigns from one board for health reason but stay on others, it is usually over disagreement with management and health or other business commitments ares the convenient excuses without having to explain why.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-11-03 14:59 | Report Abuse

However, in court cases, even ex-directors can be subpoenaed to testify in court under oath as to the real reasons they resigned, as in the 1MDB trials.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-11-03 15:01 | Report Abuse

U all should appoint General Raider as icap director loh...!!

Let General Raider fuck this TTB for not doing his job loh...!!

Posted by fairplay > 2020-11-03 22:23 | Report Abuse

Ex-director Madam Leong was a member of Audit committee. iCapital announced that she resigned in February 2020, having been a director from year 2016. Annual report year 2016 stated that Madam Leong worked as Head of department in Corporate and Investment division of Securities Commision until her retirement.
If BOD does not provide satisfactory proof of liability of iCapital to reimburse CDMS for dual-listing expenses, will shareholders file official complaint to Securities Commision?