Nobody here mentions about Israel doctors highly likely found cure for covid 19 which is cheaper and faster to produce than vaccines?
Of course vaccines prevents. While cure means you will have to be infected first to be cured.

@Newplayer286, because i bought cheap so my margin of safety was quite huge. however, because within these 2 months i think the market will be volatile and some of the good stocks have come down but still not quite cheap enough yet...missed the first week of march when it dropped so much. so i'm on standby mode now.

@Newplayers286 yes why? not exactly 6 years cos end of nov 2014. 5 years + 5 months. per year return about 14.66% including dividends. I'm happy :) because of coronavirus other portfolio dropped. but supermax help balanced out with minor gains. reason im selling is because i feel the valuation is good enough to sell. looking for better opportunities when the market drops again. now go hibernate first since everyday up.

finally....sold at 1.76 after buying at 1.05 since nov 2014. so much ups and downs. good luck y'all.

https://focusmalaysia.my/mainstream/exclusive-airasia-staff-allegedly-received-rm240-mil-bribe-from-airbus-court-docs-reveal/

@cupcakes69 - dont worry AA is very solvent.

@raint - my point is, one or couple quarters of losses will not be a problem for AA in regards of dividends. Why are you so obsessed with retained earnings? AA have been listed for 14 years and posted net PROFIT for 13 accounting years except for 2008. That's 13 years of surplus. Are you saying AA may fall into deficit in retained earnings? I think the management is wiser than that. In any case just sell planes and don't give dividends then you will boost your retained earnings. But i don't feel there's a reason to be concerned with RETAINED EARNINGS.

End of the day, yes a company needs to be making profit which AA has done so for 13 years in 14 listing years. Earning real cash is still more reliable to me.

I rest my case, Good luck to everyone holding AA.

Cupcakes69 @RainT

Sorry, but the prospect of AirAsia going into accumulated loss after a few loss quarters sounds a bit far fetched. I don't think there's much merit in claiming its impending doom.


"to pay dividend, company need to continue making profit and also have cash balance to pay it"

If I'm not wrong, a company is allowed to pay dividend even if they made losses. They only need to make sure the payout wont bankrupt the company.

LEARN FROM OTHERS. DONT ACT A FOOL. LOL

ok im done....this fella is "there" only. not gonna stoop low with him hahaha... those who knows will read and know what is going on.

lol stupid fark....LOL!!! the 0.4 dividend is clearly stated in the cash flow statement in q4 2018 u retard! LOL

and it was to prove to you that even a company post net loss they can still give dividend not like u said cannot. in fact in bursa many companies do that.

brain fart!

lol...u think i just believe what tony said like i just believe what you say?

i think i know how to differentiate when someone makes sense or not. for no you definitely are not. even then i do my own studies. lol.

"appear in cash flow statement is to calculate and show how to reconcile from accouting profit to cash/bank balance as at cut off date only"

what nonsense are you gibbering about? dividend is purely cashflow from financing. it has nothing to do with accounting profit. what bank balance? u want bank balance go see balance sheet la lol..

waste my time and bandwidth of this forum this fella.

better than simply shoot until shoot yourself in the leg lah... =D

pingdan what is the insider news from agm? pls share =)

Another point is that 5 years down the road MFRS 16 will actually benefit Airasia.

But many want results instantly, quarterly. If it is possible im sure everyone wants to make money the next minute but it doesn't work that way. Once i purchase enough this will go into the fridge. I'm excited for what is going to happen next 5-7 years not next quarter lol.

To cupcakes,

Yes of course PPE matters for any businesses, but i think what you missed is that for Airasia the business are not reliant on PPE anymore since they do not OWN them anymore. There are no ACTUAL DEPRECIATION if you don't own the assets. The only depreciation they have to really book are the buildings, offices, stationary, computers etc etc.

It is because of MFRS 16 and MFRS 117 that requires the accounting standard to book as such. Tony has said that they are going asset light model which means they do not plan to OWN expensive assets that requires huge bank loans to service them. However, he also said that given the right interest rate they might actually go back to OWNING planes again.

Besides MFRS 16, MFRS 117 also affects the interest and expenses on its leases and maintenance, which again does not affect CASH.

So in the end, the ACTUAL EXPENSES here that cost them real money are the LEASES EXPENSES. There are no depreciation whatsoever. If you want to find out how much you need to go back and check the sale & leaseback agreement. So with this, i feel its safe to add back bulk of the depreciation and non cash expenses.

"If it was hypothetical, why is it relevant to valuation? shouldn't valuation be based on what has happened and could PROBABLY happen, and not on what could have happened. Honest question!"

You answered it yourself already. First it has HAPPENED until they decided to give out as DIVIDEND and could PROBABLY happen again. Airasia have 200+ brand new planes on order. If they are not going to own them they're going to sell and cash out.

Think about it the div actually go back to shareholders pockets anyway. Some of the long time shareholders have already gotten back and more than their capital just with dividends.

Even if they don't, if they keep such momentum in generating cash flows its only the matter of time they will hit RM1 per share again, unless the share price actually goes up and push the market cap higher. Also at current valuation they are at rm0.65 per share which is selling at rm1.7 now. To me this one point seems attractive and yes i still think its relevant.

Although there are companies which have more cash than their market cap such as oriental holdings. They hoard the cash without paying out as dividends and there are no clear guidance from management on what they plan to do with the cash which bothers me otherwise i would be giving it a real look as well.

I'm not saying this is the only valuation you should weigh, there are no one definite way anyone can value a company. It's all based on what you know and then you judge for yourself and anyone can be wrong.

In the longer run i do think AA have good prospects.

Now u reminded me of something. In q42018 airasia reported loss of almost rm400 million yet they paid rm0.40 cents dividend in that quarter. Hahahaha take that noob. Who says report loss cannot pay dividend now? Yes you can as long as you have enough cash flow. Lol!!!

In fact yes. Even if accumulate p&l “loss” airasia can continue paying dividend as long as it is generating positive cash flows. Even tony himself said that. Lol. Dont be ignorant.you have much to learn boy.

HAHAHA dont shoot yourself in the leg pls. In financial statements where is dividend paid recorded?

IT IS IN CASH FLOW STATEMENTS. Not balance sheet, not profit n loss statement. LOL!

If dont know can ask nobody will laugh you. You say like that everyone know you don’t know anything about financial statements already. Kakaka! Funny fella go learn more before TALK.

let me simply it for u confused headless chickens.

What does a share represents?
A business.

What is the main purpose of running a business?
Earn money aka CASH.

Still don’t understand? Go ask anyone you know that’s running a business on how important a positive cash flow is to a business.

That’s it. Adios boys.

Rain of course if net profit positive and cash flow positive then its best. But mfrs 16 affects (net profit) which what most of u think is the be all end all story. Aiyooo already explain still dont understand ah... hahaha

Rain... omg... why u so ignorant... the loss are paper loss it doesn’t affect CASH. Even if you have billions in retained earnings ON PAPER but u have no cash what is the use? LOL! Have a look at london biscuit.

Airasia is cash flow strong WHY ON EARTH AIRASIA CANNOT PAY DIVIDEND? OMG... cannot believe u ask from where they pay dividend. From its CASH FLOW!! DUH!

First day in share market? There could be plenty of reason the share price drop or rise. KLCI itself is on the low. Share price will never be linear.

Finally you are correct!
As most market players (retailers) is dumb and cannot see that.

Yes they only depend on “net profit”. Well, good lah if they cant see haha price remain low for collection. Once the real value pop up its too late already. DUH!!

You only want to follow the herd isit? Not surprising at all, kekeke.

Relevant critics are welcome.... but most are not even concrete critics... and most comments are not even based on facts and even misleading to others.

Of course depreciation is in fact a cost factor. But are these costs reflects what actually paid by AA in the specific quarter or is it just accounting factor including future expenses? Are the high costs of depreciation and leases in the current quarter reflects the TRUE expenses of the current quarter? No it doesn't because it involves future expenses as well.

Under MFRS 16, which governs the accounting of leases in a company’s financial statements, a company has to recognise the interest expense on the leases it has taken as well as the depreciation on the assets leased.

The new MFRS 16 requires that the company recognise existing off-balance sheet operating leases. Hence, a company shall recognise the right-of-use of assets, EVEN THOUGH the company DOES NOT OWN THESE ASSETS, as well as lease liabilities or the present value of FUTURE LEASE payments.

Depreciation and interest expense recognised under MFRS 16 EXCEEDED the REAL OPERATING LEASE EXPENSE that they replaced.

They do now own those planes. Depreciation booked in the P&L statement are merely for new accounting standards. What they actually have to pay are lease expenses which would be way lower than the depreciation , interests and right of use assets for PRESENT AND FUTURE VALUE.

In the longer term, it will be lower than what it is now.

So my argument is that they are capable of generating positive cash flows from operations of 2.4b in this one quarter is great.

No, there are no borrowings under cash flow from operations at all.

Cash from borrowings are booked under cash flow from financing. It's merely 500+ million which is pretty normal for companies to utilize it depending on interest rate offered. And they needed that during the quarter as they've used 4b to pay off debts from the planes and 3b plus for dividends.

My bad, i mean their GEARING is 0 . Not DEBT. All companies utilizes certain levels of financing for operations. That's pretty normal.

My statement regarding the 0.9 cents dividend is of course relevant to the valuation of the company. When you buy a company one of the most important factor is of course the valuation of it. If AA did not spent 3b plus for the dividend payout they would have COLD HARD CASH of rm5.5b which is almost the same as their market cap which means for every share you own, you own about rm1 cash of it theoretically.

Like i said, who cares about the digital initiatives as long as they are not burning their cash flow to build the new businesses? The fact is they did not. If they manage to build one or few new good businesses without much cost GREAT, if they don't it doesn't even matter at all. Teleport alone can cover all the other expenses of digital platforms.

For anticonman who asked why no dividend for December? Because this current quarter reported was for Q3 meaning July-September. December or 4th quarter will be reported circa end of Feb. Clear? and i predict there will be a round of final dividend if they can generate the same cash flow from operations again. There again, it's only a prediction. Decide for yourselves.

you guys are super funny....even this quarter loss also not cash related.... those are paper loss... haha.... positive cash flow is the most important of all... CASH income... not "net profit"... what for record net profit but negative cash flow? if u own a business you will understand this. You can earn billions on paper but if those billions are not real cash you are dead.

look at london biscuit...quarter after quarter positive net profit...but cash flow negative all the way until no money pay bank... recent quarter have to book impairment for "net profit" aka "receivables" which they could not collect real cash from their customer lol... those who say prolonged negative cash flow is good must be ignorant...

now here is a real good tip.... If AA didnt pay 0.9 div they would have about 5.5b in cash now. that would translate about rm1 cash per share and also AA have 0 debt (wonder if u funny fellas know this at all).

I really wouldn't mind if AA keep posting net loss but generates positive operation cash flow of circa rm1-2b every quarter. LOL! and i hope it remains cheap for us to keep collecting more units.

Final tip. Q4 + Q1 two seasonally strong quarters coming ahead.

Digital transformation? who cares.... cash flow i care! LOL.

But i gotta give credit to AA. Teleport on target for rm400 million in revenue only in its 2nd year operation. How many companies can do that? 5 years - 10 years down the road? Billion ringgit revenue is not that far off.

Bigpay? yeah some say digital license doesn't mean making money. I agree. But with licenses it opens up their door into new market (Singapore & Asean) and deploy their product. Also biggest e-money platform in Malaysia in terms of transaction value only in 2nd year also? Not too bad.

Airasia.com? November already started to sell other airlines tickets plus activities hotel and so on.. it takes time... lets see what happens next.

Bear in mind current valuation have not taken into account of all the digital initiatives. to me, nothing to lose. As long as they are not burning cash for their new businesses.

Those of you who dont like AA can move on other counter why keep coming back bashing AA? lol...dont waste your time.. let us who like it share real reliable info.

JOKERS

btw, are u still suggesting negative cash flow is better? LOL

Yes ofcoz the div is from aircraft sales, i was just trying to pick his mind and see if he realises it is what it is and yet again..it proved he didn't question my statement. I don't think he even knows. LOL!

what the fish are you talking about? what does warren buffet or geiko have to do with anything mentioned? LOL! cash inflows as its anme says are inflows of cash and not all of them are liabilities. i.e revenue, gains from disposals, interest income, share of profit from associates, etc. It is only a liability when it is ticket sales in advance. Oh gosh i've already explained this LOL. And suddenly you bring up warren buffett to confuse and distract yourself. That reference isn't relevant at all.

Also, this is my first time ever i hear someone say that ONLY an accountant can understand financial statements. FYI, anyone willing to read and study can understand financial statements. It is not rocket science. LOL accountants are ONLY the people who does all the paperwork or key in numbers into softwares. That doesn't mean only they can understand. Many business owners are not accountants, they can understand financial statements. In fact they have to. LOL!!!! And i dont think warren buffett or charlie munger or peter lynch or any other famous investors are chartered accountant themselves. Don't shoot yourself in the leg with such stupid statements. Indirectly, you're telling everyone here YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. LOL!!!!!

U must be a special kind of “genius”.
WHatever money inflow means liabilities? Hahaha

Cash inflows are not liabilities. Only sales in advance is. When the sales is booked accordingly in the specific quarters it then become revenue. So in actual fact the more sales in advance (liabilities) they have the more revenue they are going to book.

Earn interest? Oh my genius accountant. Please fo read how much interest earned this quarter. Let me enlighten you. It is RM 40 million. So your argument that their strong cashflow is from taking money from customer to earn interest is not relevant. Rm40 million interest is peanuts compared to rm2.4 billion booked in cash flow from operations. The main source of cash flow are from the airline business itself.

It seems like u don’t understand here not me. Don’t need a CFO to understand the numbers.

Be humble ask if u don’t know. Nobody will laugh at you. But if u try to act like a genius when you don’t know much. It shows easily

I’m waiting to see how many will argue and say that 0.9 cents dividend which amounts to roughly 3b plus in total is from sales of aircraft.

What nonsense. The tickets ppl purchased in advance has nothing to do with cash flow from “operations”. Those are booked as ticket sales in advance under balance sheet as liabilities.

It will then be realized as sales according to the flying date under specific quarters.

Don’t complicate things and confuse yourself and other ppl.read the statement as it is. Cash flow from operations means cash from operating the business and nothing else. No magic whatsoever.

Don’t understand why people cannot accept that AA is actually really generating rm2.4 billion from operations in one quarter alone. And if they did not pay out the 0.9 cents dividend, they would have about 5b plus in cash now. Take that!

Or if u rather invest in a growing company which have negative cash flow go ahead sell this and move on why stick around?

Must worry la this company growing but got positive cash flow. Not a good TIP. Hopefully they negative cash flow for a very long long long long time then we all can all in la..

“hold back on operations payments
definitely get positive operations cashflow”

I stated about total receivables and payables.

Please enlightened us because your statement is contradictory with AA’s financial statement.

Secondly, since u said it as a “TIP” i guess you are suggesting a growing company must and is better having negative cash flows than a growing company with positive cash flows?

Thirdly please link proof of amazon negative cash flows. As far as recently i remember amazon was making net loss but having positive cashflows just like airasia.

Total Receivables 4.4b, total payables 1.2b. If anything it shows that other ppl owe them more than they owe ppl. Besides a huge bulk of the payables are airport related. What r u smoking on?

Negative cash flow for a long long time.. yeah like grab keep pumping money. Good tip. And good luck.

Happy selling then.

MFRS16 only came into effect on jan 2019.

For a clearer picture of the company’s health look at cashflow from operations. It will add back any expenses that are not actually from operations or cash related and deduct any gains from disposals which are not income from operations. This quarter (q3) cash from operations is 2.4b versus 1.6b from (q3) last year in the same quarter. Previous quarter (q2) 2019 was 1.2b.

Derivates and forex losses has been confirmed are not realised according to cashflows statement.

Market cap 5.7b, cash 2b as of q3 2019. Without MFRS16 gearing is NIL.

Judge for yourselves.

Happy investing, otherwise happy selling.

Ebitda actually increased. MRFS16 only affects depreciation. Ebitda as its name say is earnings BEFORE interest, tax, depreciation & armotisation.

Net profit is stated after deducting everything that’s just mentioned hence it actually has nothing to do with cash except for tax and interest.

Poor qr is due to UnRealised forex losses and derivatives (not sure if this is realised) lazy read again hehe.

Overall. Ebitda has improved damn alot.

Also over the longer term MRFS16 will have lesser effects.

P/S this is not a buy / sell recommendation. If u make decision based on this stupid forum u will go to holland very fast.

ValueCAP is equally-owned by Khazanah Nasional Berhad, Kumpulan Wang Persaraan (Diperbadankan), and Permodalan Nasional Berhad.

Load of BS

Maybe chinapress translate from theedge report lol

If accounting rules hadn’t changed this would have been an improved QR. look at the cashflow from operations. Positive not burning cash at all. Some companies can report net profit positive but cashflow negative. So who do you think is buying? Those people who see things from this perspective ofcourss.

Many ppl here dunno what is cashflow lol..

Nobody took a look at cashflow statement? Only p&l?

I tried aveo lenses. I bought it even before they launched from their website. It is the most comfortable lenses I’ve tried and I’ve been wearing lenses for many many years n tried all the best brands out there

Hehe i bought supermax when the director was charged with insider trading.. so my cost is very low.. sitting on 60+% gain as of now excluding dividends.. current rate dividend giving me 8% annually for my costs.. so i think i’ll keep for quite some time more..

Thanks. Amazing harta can derive such market cap at 40b production. Hopefully 5 years later supermax follows.

For those who are curious about the warrants adjusted price according to the dividend ex price.

https://www.malaysiawarrants.com.my/marketnews/highlight?cat=todayhighlight&id=5361

@wiki123 do you know after expansion the total volume is very close to hartalega’s? Also do you have the numbers for the big four total production currently?

You guys ever read? Lol

Springtime This guy Tony is smart. Take out 40m to invest and then every year get 40m in revenue from parcels delivery. He know his game well

Dude. Correct sum should be 20m. Total 40m is co-invested with gobi partners “equally”

Betkaukau, april interim div is for financial year end 2018. Don’t be confused.

Hmmm share buyback?

Nope i dont think he meant as a quarter loss.. just that number wont be great due to provisions for leasing expenses.