You have raised a few interesting points and I do recommend you to subscribe to icap newsletter. Some questions for you to ponder on 1) Why is TTB almost fully vested in his overseas funds but opt to hold so much cash in icap? What's wrong with the Malaysia market? 2) For the other Malaysia equity fund, what is the degree of overlap with KLCI and what is ICAP's degree of overlap with KLCI?Note that we are comparing active funds and not index fund. 3) Baupost's cash position is 31% on Jun 30 and why? - I am a deep admirer of Klarman, more than buffett
The recent sharp rise in tomei and poh kong is like a slap on the face. It shows the irrationality of retail investors and the high level of speculative interest inside Bursa. I personally do not bother about KLCI.
@observatory There are supporters and opponents to ICAP, not a big surprise. The main arguments here revolve around two key points - big discount to NAV (what causes it?) and TTB's value investing methodology (whether it is still relevant today). For the former, I believe it has got to do with COL and Laxey Partners. the price and vol trade in such a peculiar manner that they are the only "makers" in this counter. For the latter, it is up to individual - every stock has its own risk/return profile. Some argue that they can generate higher return and my suggestion for them is to sell ICAP and look at other stocks. If you ever visit the AGM, most of the investors are retirees and they cannot afford to bet on counters like the glove makers. ICAP's portfolio is extremely defensive and I have personally added a few counters to my personal portfolio, on top of ICAP.
Frankly, TTB defended ICAP's NAV pretty well vs the broader market and many of the "experts" here. In this selloff, ICAP's portfolio fell less than 20% from its all-time high. Even if you invest in KLCI, your performance will be far poorer (the index is struggling to defend 1,300 points now vs its high of about 1865)
As of Nov 2019, ICAP has RM266 mln in cash or about RM1.90 per share. And if you'll follow ICAP's newsletter, TTB seems ready to enter the market at its low.
I have no idea what investors can ask for from TTB. He has delivered his promise to investors.
Coz i need to be smart like ahbah/ICap - to put $$ in FD over last 3 years and reduce exposure to stocks before market drops. ahteck85 is not that smart, most probably will lose $$ if I invest something else. Unless ahbah or ICap help me.
stockraider, are you a few cards short of a full deck? Do you understand what I am talking about? I have already said that the dissolution is 5 years after 15th AGM. You cannot count is it?
CharlesT, RM8 mln is used to hire a fund management company, not a single person. It is also in line with the industry rate. Inside any conventional fund management, there are many departments like compliance, accounts, research, IT etc. If RM8 mln is expensive, you should go to Genting/Genting Malaysia page and question why Tan Sri Lim is paid a total of RM249 mln last year. That amount is paid to him alone and Genting Group had a bad year in 2018.
You can choose not to agree with TTB investment methodology and go for other counters. It is your right and more appropriate esp if you know what/how to invest. You can invest according to your risk appetite. But, not many people have the necessary knowledge or time to do so. It is more scary if these people punt on the wrong counters. I have seen people who were ill-advised by their brokers and lost their life-savings on speculative counters. You know how heart-wrenching it is to see them crying and asking for help...
ahbah, you can tell readers about the NAV discount for icap, but please dun misguide them. icap's NAV is still dependent on its underlying investments. It can fall or rise.
CharlesT Just a simple question to ahteck85. .r u happy with yr inv in icap? I previously own a small stake in Selangor Properties. The share price kept falling then but why didn't I sell? Maybe I am lucky and the company got privatised. I care about what the company has to offer to me and what I am paying for, not the share price movement. Disclosure - I do have a small stake in ICAP but it's not substantial.
CharlesT When i saw so many new ids here supporting ttb since last week i feel its a bit unsual loh... I previously only read and can’t be bothered to comment. The fact that there are no supporters talking doesn’t mean that there are none. As I have said previously, there are two sides to a coin. Even if I do not like a counter, I will not be bothered to hog a forum and keep posting negative things there. I do not deny that I have implicit interest in ICAP but what about you? You have short position?
I have no idea about your intention and can’t be bothered either. In any case, if I were you, I will check if i3investor keep a record of my ip address and I will not post anything defamatory here, for obvious reason.
CharlesT and ahbah, I did some research on icapital.biz and found this at page 46 of their IPO prospectus...
"Accordingly, the Articles of Association of icapital.biz contain provisions to the effect that at the annual general meeting to be held in the 15th year after the company is listed on Bursa Securities and the Company has not then been wound up, the Board shall, at the AGM to be convened in the 5th year following the date of the AGM provided the Company has not then been wound up and subject to the SC Guideline-CEF and any law then in force, propose an ordinary resolution that icapital.biz shall continue as a closed-end fund for a further period of 5 years following the date of such general meeting."
From the statement, the fund is to vote on an ordinary resolution on the 20th year whether to wind down or not.
Where did you'll get the impression on the 15th year? Is there any new resolution that has been passed to replace this? Kindly verify
Any legal expert here? Maybe I am a dotard and have misread it.
Ahbab, if brick and mortar shops are dead-ducks, why did Alibaba and Amazon set-up/acquire physical stores? Why did George Quek from BreadTalk take a major stake in Taiwan department store chain Pacific Sogo recently? Do you know what is omnichannel strategy? Do you think the online retailers like Qoo10 are even profitable to start with? You are merely citing obvious trends with no substantial knowledge about the industry and the forces around it. If all shoppers are shopping online non-stop, Mid-Valley and Pavilion should be empty!
There are always two-sides to a coin. We can measure icap performance using NAV and price, with dividend and without dividend and across different time horizon. It is easy for London or ICAP to showcase a chart that favors their argument. Who is more convincing? The answer is simple - look at the AGM results. The shareholders are not stupid and they can vote against the fund manager. BUT, they know ICAP's performance and still vote for Tan Teng Boo. You can say that they are brainwashed, but to do that for 5 years (according to fong7)? The fact is simple, investors themselves are also not comfortable with the macro outlook and not willing to see the fund take on too much exposure. It is so easy to talk with hind-side bias about past performance but when shit happens, it is the investors that suffer, not the keyboard warriors here. Tan Teng Boo's recent performance may not be wonderful, but at least, he is more reliable than many of the "experts" here.