@danielcctan: Staff bought at a lower cost... Can I ask where you got the figure of 70 sen from?

The all time low for the share price is 84.5 sen.

The cheapest ESOS for staff has an exercise price of 79 sen.

Assuming that you meant 79 sen, the latest ESOS listing announcement indicates that 113,000 shares are to be listed tomorrow.

Feel free to explain to us why you believe thiis amount (1,130 small lots) is going to be a decisive part in the selling pressure tomorrow vis a vis to the daily average traded volume of 13 million shares (130,000 small lots) for the past month.

Flower: I'm probably not the best person to ask on if this is the best price to buy at.

What I can tell you is that I'm still holding a decent amount of shares in this company. My average price is quite near the all time low but in all honesty, I don't see myself selling out at the current price.

Fundamentally speaking, I'd have to say that the share price has run a fair bit ahead of current earnings. (I don't believe the upcoming quarter's earnings will be too exciting)

However, I'm still bullish in the company's prospects for the long term. If you're the type who can buy, hold for at least 1-2 years more and not be bothered by daily price fluctuations, then yes it might be worth it to average down. If not I'd suggest you wait to buy on weakness (1.00-1.05 might be possible).

Of course all the above are assumptions and not facts. And bear in mind that I'm not a professional investor.

Best to ask for the opinion of others who are more experienced to get a consensus view.

@jn69: Thanks for the link. For someone who can't read Chinese it was interesting to run that through google translate and read it. :p

He must be speaking in code. Cant understand heads or tails of what he's saying.

Still no explanation on why king7 is calling jn69 a bullshitter. All I see is king7 posting a load of crap.

Much as I'd like this thread nice and sweet, I have to say king7 you're a bit of an arse aren't you? Till now you haven't explained how jn69 has lied. So either man up, grow a pair and explain or it should be you that shuts up.

king7: How in the world is he a kukuman kaki? These were the posts made by the two of you.

jn69: "1.17 now."
king7: "JN69 ! Don't bull shit."

A little before the time he posted, the share price had just touched 1.17.

So again I ask you, why do you say he was bullshitting?

king7, try to be a little mature instead of you yourself posting pure and utter bullshit.

king7: Why so hostile lah? jn69 is correct. It _was_ trading at 1.17 (high of 1.18). Now 1.16 to 1.17.

elmo888: I regret that you think my debunking your statements is a personal attack.

This is not personal, this is just the truth. You made statements that were completely untrue, and I rebutted and explained why.

Fine you made a mistake between KWAP and KWSP. Accepted.

But here's the thing, _neither of them_ have any shares in Benalec, or if they do it's in a very small quantities. You said "...as long as this institute is trying to let go their position in this". And again I will ask, how in the world are they supposed to sell shares that they _do not own_.

Why is it so difficult to recognise and accept this fact. KWAP/KWSP/Khazanah/Any Malaysian GLC/ Any Malaysian GLFund do _not_ own shares in Benalec.

You seem looking for some sort of conspiracy theory behind this that they are selling shares, when don't own any. This is not a personal attack, but the blunt truth. You made a false statement, I've disproved it.


You claimed the share buyback pushed up the price, I rebutted this and gave you factual data as to why I believe this to be untrue. Again, this was not a personal attack, merely the truth.


Fair enough, if you're bitter about how things have gone especially with the family shenanigans, that is your right. Whether you want to believe the matter is being settled via the Heads of Agreement is again up to you to decide. (you do realise there is one right?) You may not believe it will happen, whilst I do. Now that's a personal opinion and not a personal attack.


Now you've clarified you were looking at free cash flow, and not debts, fine. My previous statement was against you claiming the company had a lot of debts, which as you know is completely untrue.

On the subject of free cash flow, I am unable to say anything on the matter as I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to pass comment. Perhaps others would care to do so.


Why did I respond to your posting in an abrupt manner in the end? It's simply because any of these details can be found simply by taking the effort to read announcements off bursa announcements. If I a non-professional can do it, why can't you? If you couldn't be bothered then surely you must be prepared to be called out as a fool for pulling out stories from the air.

8u29song: You always assume a percentage of the volume will be contra players who will wait till T+3. Sure there are those like you say who will sell same day or the next day hence the neednto use a percentage. Take other things into account, is it institutional buying? Syndicated play?

A lot of this are assumptions you have to make and usually only time and experience will get you a slightly better (if not good) idea.

Personally I'm assuming that come Monday we'll probably get at least 25-30% of the volume on last wednesday as T+3 players. So make it about 15-20m waiting to be flushed by people who bought in from 98 sen to 1.10. This percentage is slightly higher than what i think it is simply because there'll also be some T+2 sellers from thursday who are also worried who might be cutting out as well.

Of course this is far from an exact science. For all you know the price might spike come Monday. Ask other experienced traders their opinion on this as well to get a better idea.

@Jonathan Keung: Which means Monday (19 May) will probably very interesting.

T+3 from 14 May (Wednesday). Volume for the day 60.366m. Range RM0.98-1.11.

Those who are faint of heart might suffer a bit on that day, heh.

Hmm, after reviewing all the postings, I think I'm being trolled. Carry on intuition, I'll skip all your postings from now.

@inutition Let's be very clear on something. There were no share buybacks yesterday (15 May 2014). Volume done for that day 43.826m shares. Open 1.09, close 1.16, up 7 sen.

The highest price thus far that Benalec has paid per share during buybacks is 1.05.

From May 6 to May 14, Benalec bought back 9,255,500 shares for RM9,030,961.84. This means the average price was 97.57 sen.

Today's price let's call it 1.15. So Benalec is in the money for _at least_ 15 sen.

What exactly is the problem here then? And for the love of all that is holy, please don't say that the share buybacks alone caused the price to go up. If you see my posting above, the buybacks accounted for 6.88% of all volume traded during buyback days.

I have never heard of a company (in Malaysia) that has always successfully bought back shares at the low, only the low and nothing but the low. Absolute bottom fishing whilst something to aspire to is nothing but a myth. Surely you as a professional analyst can understand that?


And I'm confused, you say things are not so straightforward and that I should attend an investors briefing. What exactly are you referring to? I looked back at my postings and I can't fathom what it is you're trying to refer me to.

@intuition: What are you talking about? What is not so straight forward? Which of my postings are you referring to?

@Intuition: Care to tell the rest of us why you removed almost all your previous postings?

@fortunebullllz: I think you're way out of line in calling me a bully.

Every time I disagree with someone making what I believe to be a stupid/ridiculous statement, I attach reasons and explanations to it.

If someone comes up and says, "Wah KWSP selling Benalec that's why price being manipulated", I'm going to call a spade a spade. If they can't even get it right as to who _used to be_ the substantial shareholder of Benalec (KWAP) and is _no longer_ a substantial shareholder, how in the world can they sell down further? Short selling ka?

You can give your opinion but if I consider it stupid, I'm going to say so and add a good reason as to why I believe it to be stupid, I don't just call you stupid on its own and end it there.

I wonder how I can be considered to be a bully when I actually take the effort to explain the reasons when i take such a stance.

I'm utterly disgusted and fed up with people who don't even make an attempt to do a minimal form of research. If you can't even take a look at bursa announcements to make sure what you're saying is factual why shouldn't I disprove your statements?

If anyone wants to condemn Benalec with negative comments, by all means, please do. I always like to hear a contrarian view simply because it keeps me grounded and keeps things real. But make sure you give a reason and don't leave it empty like a lying troll who (kukuman) makes allegations but doesn't even give one iota of proof to back it up.

Every person I've rebutted (kukuman, intuition, elmo888) has either:

a) gotten the facts wrong (kwsp vs kwap, ESOS amount could affect the share price, share buyback manipulated the share price to go up, have so much debt)
b) made totally unsubstantiated allegations (brothers still doing back door dealings)

If you still think I'm bullying, please, do highlight which statement I've made which you consider to be bullying.

It would only be bullying if I'm trying to ram my opinion down your throat when it's untrue.

So here and now I am calling you out to back up your statement that I'm a bully. Where in any of my postings have I ever lied?

Where I make assumptions or suppositions, I always make it very clear that they're just that, assumptions or suppositions.

I am hoping that you won't decline the opportunity to clarify which of my statements you consider to be bullying. You made an accusation, make sure that you see it all the way through.

_extremely irritated_ taciturn

I bought more at 1.16. :p Albeit a very small quantity. :/

staind86: Yeah, but his phrase "they have so much debts" made me cringe. Their gearing is and always has been very much under control to the point now where I'd say they're fairly undergeared.

I.e. if they want to they could take out facilities purely to pay out additional dividends since their cost of debt is so much lower than their margins.

However, they'd rather be prudent and not take that step simply because their income is not recurring by nature, is lumpy and hell they never know when they'd actually have to ramp up debt for operational purposes if they strike a major job (we all know which one).

(edited a second time)
@elmo888:

1. "must be some big shark let go their shares... let us monitor KWSP selling any shares?"
KWSP has not and never been a substantial shareholder (5% or more) of Benalec. You're talking about KWAP (Kumpulan Wang Amanah Pencen).

On December 27, 2013, KWAP ceased to be a substantial shareholder after ending the day with 37.67m shares. To the best of my knowledge they have _completely_ sold down their stake to 0 by the beginning of January 2014. There are _no_ other substantial shareholders except for the Leaw family.


2. "do you notice that the sharebuy back push the share price?" "may be this is the trick for the company utilize their fund to push the share price"

Share buybacks.
Date / Share buyback / Volume / % of buyback over volume
May 6 - 3,0m / 23.635m / 12.69%
May 7 - 1,686m / 21.708m / 7.76%
May 8 - 1.186m / 3.941m / 30.09%
May 9 - 0.3m / 10.797m / 2.77%
May 12 - 1.083m / 13.931m / 7.77%
May 14 - 2.0m / 60.366m / 3.31%

Total - 9.255m / 134.378m / 6.88%

Besides May 8 where buybacks accounted for 30% of the volume traded for the day, every other day has been accounted for less than 13% of the volume traded. For the record, on May 8, the price closed DOWN 0.5 sen.

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that the share buyback was a major factor in pushing the price higher. It may have raised sentiments, but no way in hell did it alone push the price.


3. "they have so much debts"

From their annual report for Q22014 (ending December 31, 2013)
Balance Sheet
Current Assets: 790.31m
Current Liabilities: 367.04m
Net Current Assets: 423.27m

Non-Current Assets: 212.73m
Long Term Liabilities: 68.49m
Net Assets: 567.51m

The only question I have for you is..."WHAT DEBTS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"


For crying out loud, I thought the ESOS statement yesterday was beyond inane (especially coming from a supposed professional), but this is ridiculous. If you're just talking out of your ass, perhaps it's better that you remain silent than show yourself a fool to the world.

Maybe I'm getting grumpier in my older age, but seriously it's statements like these that irritate the blazes out of me. Even that lying troll kukuman I can accept, since he's just basically a lying troll but this statement is... *facepalm*

Oh yeah, almost forgot just wanted to add one more thing in regarding ESOS for employees (and executive director(s)) of the company.

Whilst most companies do a standard 5 year plan with a vesting process of 20% each year, Benalec is slightly different.

Benalec's style of vesting is 50% the day after the grant, and 50% one year after that.

This is in case anyone is wondering why in my posting above, with regards to the first ESOS series, I didn't mention anything about vesting. All options in that series have been vested as per:
http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/925258

Details on the third series of ESOS for those who want to confirm what I've just written here:
http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1528729

@Intuition: You asked us to take into consideration the fact that any exercised ESOS will dilute/affect the share price.

As of today (May 14, 2014), for Benalec's first ESOS series (January 2011-2016), there are up to 7,165,500 options outstanding (at an exercise price of RM1.06). 1,500,000 of those options belong to Vincent Leaw, meaning other employees of the group hold the remainder of up to 5,665,500 options.

I use the term "up to" as I do not know how many employees have quit since June 30, 2013 (when the last annual report was published - along with option details). The outstanding options may be lower than this figure but not higher.

On January 3, 2014, a second ESOS series of 600,000 options was granted to the 3 independent non-executive directors (200,000 each) at an exercise price of RM0.78. 100% of the options were vested the very next day. None of it has been exercised thus far.

On January 28, 2014, a third ESOS series of 16,000,000 options was granted to employees of the group (10% of the options went to Vincent Leaw), at an exercise price of RM0.79. (50% of the options were vested the very next day, the other 50% vests only on January 29, 2015).

As some of the options from the third ESOS series have been exercised, it currently consists of (at the moment) up to 7,660,000 outstanding options, 800,000 held by Vincent Leaw, and up to 6,860,000 by other employees.


Let's put it into simplistic terms, if every vested option (even the first series since they're technically in the money right now :p) were to be exercised tomorrow and sold on the open market that would come to:

Vincent Leaw's options: 1,500,000+800,000=2,300,000
Other employees/directors first+second+third series: 5,665,500+600,000+6,860,000=13,125,500

Total: up to 15,425,500 options

I think we can safely assume that Vincent Leaw would rather see his share price return to it's former glory (and more) than not. Hence I don't think he'd be exercising and dumping the shares. So I'd rather take the figure of up to 13,125,500 options.

As of today, Benalec has 808,402,500 shares paid up and listed.

The options come to a little less than 1.63% of the company's current paid up number of shares.

If you believe that number of shares will significantly affect the share price, I frankly wouldn't know what to say.

Respectfully, I'd like to state here that if I, as a non-professional investor can show this conclusion, surely you (as a research analyst) could have done a little bit of research before making such an erroneous statement.

@staind86: *bow*

@savvyone: He's silent on the entire forum. Maybe Benalec/Vincent Leaw's lawyer contacted and scared the bejeebers out of him

Share buyback by Benalec today of 2,000,000 shares at 1.05 each.

Total treasury shared held by company: 10,855,400 (1.343%)

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1621581

Beginner1989: *pat*pat* I have to admit your comments gave me a chuckle. Best of luck in your investments.

@zero: Ahh, thanks bro. I learn something new every day. :)

I shall echo your call, come on Nazifuddin or TMJ!

Although with the former I'd probably sell my shares pretty damn quick after it spikes up. XD

Zero: Haha, good one. Choked on my drink when I read your statement on Lion group. Very apt though. XD

Is your source about BlackRock good? No insult intended, just want to have an idea of how high you rate that piece of information.

tshwong: The moment the share price takes a breather/consolidate, he'll probably appear. I can already foresee his statements.

"Didn't go up as fast Harvest."
"Not as good as Datasonic"
"That time Tiger Synergy shoot up even better"

Or maybe go old school.

"Transwater that time increase way better"
"Cannot compare to Repco"

Or something as ridiculous along the lines. Trolls, being trolls. :p

staind86: Agreed on the first point.

As to the second point, it's quite possible as Savvyone put it that progress payments for the land sales are coming through hence their ability to commit to buybacks.

Sadly, Benalec gives their quarterly results near the end of the two month time limit allotted (as does at least 90% of all Bursa listed companies). So we won't be able to interpret very much on this aspect when the quarter ending March results come out some time end of this month.

Savvyone: Thank you for your updates. The cynic in me however requires that I take everything that isn't announced directly by the company with a grain of salt.

I.e. your source earlier did make a mistake with regards to the detailed E.I.A. approvals hence my caution.

This is not to say I don't appreciate your keeping us in the loop.

I may not believe all of it i.e. a share buyback limit of RM50m is huge and much as I hope it is true, I'd rather be cynical and assume the amount is a lot lower than that.

I'm always hoping for the best but tempering it with reality. Needless to stay, I'm still bullish about the company's prospects over the long term

Share buyback by Benalec. 1,083,000 shares at an average price of 98.3 sen.

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1620573

And I thought today would be a quiet day with a lot of people on leave to make it an extra long weekend, heh.

Share buyback today buy Benalec. 300,000 shares at an average price of 96.5 sen.

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1619141

Total spent on buyback for the week RM5,859,115 for 6,172,500 shares.

Current total number of treasury shares held by Benalec: 7,772,400 shares. (0.96% of the company's issued shares)

samsung555: I'm not a board member or an employee of the group. Just an interested investor.

ymtan: The simplest answer probably is that they didn't have the money until Tuesday itself. (one of the lump sum payments for the land sales came in, suddenly they're flush with cash with no need for it for operational use)

Of course logic dictates you should spread out your purchases over a larger period of time to get a better average price. I'm guessing though when they had the money (let's assume RM10m for an example), they called their broker (don't think Benalec has someone in the office doing online stock trading :p), tell them how much they have to spend and give instructions to buy up to that amount.

By chance the broker starts buying during the hot market period, thinks "huat ah!" and joins in the rush. :p

The other reason could of course be what you said, there might be another positive announcement coming so management told the broker to buy the shares in x period of time (i.e 1 week, 2 weeks etc) forcing the broker to rush a bit.

Share buyback today by Benalec. 1,186,700 shares at an average price of 95.3 sen each.

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1617917

JT5774: Yours is the best elegant statement I've seen for the day. It's like everyone who complains are daytraders. :p

Alex Tan: I'm curious where you get the assumption that the stock should be worth 5x more. Is that supposed to be a fundamental statement?

I don't think the process is quite so a "no brainer" operation as you say. Reclaiming the land, that's easy enough with their skillset.

But before you can start reclaiming land:

1) you need the rights/concession to do so either directly from the state government, or from a company who has such rights/concessions. Dealing with state governments is never an easy issue, unless you have some form of kangtao or...other means.
2) you need to get a detailed EIA from the department of environment approved. No EIA means no reclaiming. EIAs these days aren't simply rubber stamped by the department. Re: Tanjung Piai/Pengerang.

You cannot just go, "La la la, I think I will reclaim this spot here" and start to do so or else you'll probably end up behind bars.

It sounds like you just plucked out the 5x figure from the air. Even during the best of times, even without the problems with the brothers, the share price has only been a little 50% higher than what it is now. 5x is a gross exaggeration.

samsung555: Please re-read my earlier posting on possible reasons of why the Leaw family sold the 5%. Specifically under the section "for those who believe in the good".

If it's really a cash out, my reasoning stands. No one would sell the stake and declare the sale via bursa the very same day. It would have made more sense to milk it for what it's worth and clear shares in the open market for the next 7 days, and then make a declaration.

Also if the Leaw family is cashing out....why have there been no further sale of shares since then by then?

This is unless you're like a certain lying troll of course. His style would be tembak himself in the foot first before selling.

King7: Counter's behaviour... like me? Dude I don't understand what youre saying.

king7: If that's your belief than perhaps Benalec might not be the best investment for you? After all if you think that by the Leaw family selling low and Benalec itself buying back shares is not good then perhaps it's time to cash out.

Never mind that others (including me) believe that the Leaw family selling at a discount was to a friendly party for a different reason.

jenabchen: good one. :p

Further share buyback by Benalec today. They bought back 1,685,000 shares at an average price of 95.76 sen each.

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1616641

king7: There's a lot of arbitraging going on (either day trade or contra) with retail traders being content if they can get a profit of half a sen to 1 sen.

The market's taken note of Benalec's recent announcements and/or institutionals are getting involved.

You might think that being a share at 95 sen and selling at 95.5 makes so little money but when you factor in a contra player/daytrader is willing to trade say 500,000 shares a day, that's still about RM800-900 for a day's profit which is decent for a professional trader. (okaylah, maybe not decent compared to some of the bigger players :p)

News has been announced and factored in, don't expect the price to increase 50% in one week for a relatively solid company like Benalec. If that's what you're after, you should be looking at warrants/call-warrants although inexperience can cause you to lose your shirt. Or heck, might as well buy Datasonic and pray. XD

If you're unable to take the strain of watching the price act choppily i.e. 93 to 96, back to 94, back to 95.5 etc, perhaps (and I don't mean this as an insult) you should be looking at more blue chip stocks. Everyone wants to make a big gain, but if it's difficult to keep your emotions/fears in check you're honestly better off with something that's a lot more stable with strong recurring income.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. As long as you don't end up like a certain lying troll (who I now suspect lost a fair amount of money on this counter - and is extremely bitter about it), it's all good. :)

up_up_up: CIMB does have a valid point, everyone is banging on the company getting the detailed EIA for Tanjung Piai & Pengerang approved.

Thus far it hasn't been a rosy path for approval. There's been a lot of back and forth between Benalec, their consultants and the Department of Environment.

Some analysts (especially Affin) think that they have the approval virtually in hand. Others like CIMB disagree.

Lots of pros and cons on the issue, depending on who you believe.

Of course if/when they do receive the approval for the EIA then everything changes. :p

Benalec did a share buyback today of 3,000,000 shares at an average of 94.13 cents each.

Total number of treasury shares after the buyback is 4,599,900.

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/1615341

Ah looks like the lying troll is ignoring me. I must have scared him to the point where he kecut-ed until he dare not respond to any of my points anymore.

Oh well, ho-hum back to the daily grind.

lying troll: Eh, name names lah. Who are you talking about?

And I note yet again you've avoided answering my question. Do elaborate/show proof that brothers are still doing back door dealing.

Quote:

Kukuman said, "tinyvestor, tough for mr ben. the ousted brother directors will not sit still doing nothing. they too need to make a living to survive through one way or another. There is always back door dealing. ""

Asked to elaborate/show proof, he refused/cannot. Thus _LIAR_.

Totally kecut, no?

Pretty impressive trade volumes. Someone bought out 1.4m shares at 95 and 1.2m shares at 95.5 in one one trade each.

Spill the beans? You still haven't elaborated on your statement that there are back door dealings involving the brothers. We are still waiting...

I can sense you've kecut-ed completely.

Not that it's any of your business, but my average price is fairly near the all-time low (I was not an original investor).

So spineless troll, still refuse to explain your statement that there are back door dealings? Takut ka?

And I'm not the one threatening to sue. It's not about me, but about the company which you keep trolling on and on with endless bullshit.

Anyway, sending the details of your allegations to Benalec, let's see if they want to deal with the likes of you. Hopefully for your sake, they don't. If not lagi kecut (although I doubt it can get any smaller).