u don't find any difference in skill set required?

Most people are naturally prudent. To them, facts and figures are most important. For a trader whose holding period is just a couple of months, then facts and figures are less important than identifying trends

Trading is a game. You can be wrong about facts and figures and you can still make money if you are right about market psychology

Gloves, when u think about it, was the only game in town when KYY initiated his trades... and still true That is the best possible kind of situation

Trading, many kinds of traders. Daily ones, contra period ones, sure die.... no cure

A trader who thinks he is an investor will die...sure die...........Now, this is a very common problem, more common than people wish to admit because it is so much more respectable to call one self an investor than to be given the trader tag.

whatever what one calls himself, the ultimate aim is to make money.

agree?

but the skill sets are different.


An investor survives on digging out truths, facts and figures. An investor must show patience and have deep knowledge of his investments. As they say, only do what you know.



A traders's skill set and success depend on early actions, fast actions....making good decisions on incomplete information.


KYY is brilliant when it comes to buying..........so far recent records show not so brilliant on selling. KYY is definitely a trader, not an investor..........no matter what he call himself. He can succeed in his stock picking even without complete information ..........because he has the ability to identify trends early enough and go all in. The problem is he wrongly believe himself to be an investor and over stay the trend and so dies............too bad.

good attitude....but since this is a forum calling me tin kosong does not stop me from posting..........after all, there are plenty of silent readers.

y VIN3133 > May 15, 2020 12:36 AM | Report Abuse

Our own money , our fate , we decide ourselves .
We do our own due diligence and measure the risks vs rewards ratio & set cut-loss/cut-profit in place in our investment decision .
Thank you for your concern .
Every investment in shares involves risk.
If can't bear the risk , might as well put in FD . Guaranteed to be safe .

=========

good attitude....but since this is a forum calling me tin kosong does not stop me from posting..........

by VIN3133 > May 15, 2020 12:22 AM | Report Abuse

Yes, we ,the simple minded uncles & unties , still view DK66's relative valuation is by far the most sensible, straightforward & reliable measurement until proven otherwise by Jak's ACTUAL results !
We prefer to be guided this way in our investment decision in Jaks .
=========

the capital structure have a huge impact on the reported profits ....so are the terms of the PPA..........and what about exceptional items?

one way to increase confidence is ignore bulls and bears.........that is what Bufett do....also what KYY do.....

ct...........call me tin kosong u can make money meh?

just because invested in Jaks then can pretend to be any thing?


what about dragging others down the drain with you?

investee is awake......even if OTB and his whole cabal is asleep................

dk66...u think pretend is all that is needed?


just pretend to be pig eat tiger?


refer to page 848 Jaks forum...........

refer to Jaks forum page 848

........don't pretend u don't know how to do it.


U owe it to everyone to do it and tell us about it.....

don't pretend.

The only alternative is to ask them or do a projection based on 12% irr on e quity funding of $ 600 million ( almost all of which is EPCC profits)..................

and since PBB figures ( supplied by Jaks ) are so far from your figures, so how?

Throw away Jaks figures? u smarter than Jaks with deep knowledge?

DK66 > May 14, 2020 10:51 PM | Report Abuse

Aseng, Vinh Tan 1 made 652m. 30% is 196m. You think Jaks can be so far off ?
===========

and what is the gearing in Vinh Tan and what is your gearing?

and the terms of the PPA?

whole bunch of pipe dreamers..first there is OTB and now all these cult followers.

ed by DK66 > May 14, 2020 10:35 PM | Report Abuse

Normally, the equity IRR are very high, like 30%, to compensate the risk on debt capital. 12% is not reasonable.
=========

bottomline is this...........if u think the plant can generate $ 1 billion profits p.a. and management does not think so.....then , go and buy but don't drag others down the drain with u.........


the absence of institution money in Jaks suggest to me, no one with that kind money believes in your plant profits ( 100%) $ 1 billion profit p.a. pipe dream..........

Posted by huahtai98 > May 14, 2020 10:07 PM | Report Abuse

@Shan Kee Tiow....我相信你讲的比较准确。
为您点赞。
Basically 30% share = 300m annual profit
40% share = 400m annual profit.
对吗?....bro.
Just my humble 2 cents.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you people.
============

100% share profit $ 1 billion a year.........if u are right, then management of Jaks and PBB are both wrong........that is the crux of the matter. They have been too conservative.

If u think the plant can make $ 1 billion a year, then buy and keep, but don't drag others down with you..........because it is pure imagination.

this dk..........I am sure is just pretending...........


I call that pretend to be pig eat tiger.....

ehome......I like to see u realise your own mistake...and do a fresh valuation................I have explained Irr, NPV enough times already........

Posted by Ehome009 > May 14, 2020 9:53 PM | Report Abuse

qqq333,
I am talking about facts, never intend to challenge PBB, i just want to point out the mistake made by the analyst. We are human being and bound to make mistake, so do u.
=======

I went through the Report.........they did not make any conceptual mistake......

u think about things I write.....and PBB workings, all very transparent and correct.

if Otb thinks his margin calculations are better, or if people think Jaks management misled them... then buy and keep.... but don't drag others down the drain

I know enough about cash flows and Jaks to know PBB figures are based on what makes management and conceptually at least, they are correct

$1 billion, not $1... correction above

ehome... PBB figures are based on information given to them by management..... if u insist the plant can make $1 a year... then managent and PBB are wrong. That is the summary as things stand

ehome, it's not difficult.... just think about it.... and don't challenge PBB. u are wrong, PBB is correct at least based on information supplied to them by management

by DK66 > May 14, 2020 9:07 PM | Report Abuse

why said I lose money ? you don't know my cost ?
==========
my exact words....


..stop pretending............u lose money ( in future ), your business.....don't drag every one down with u........

I angry because u are pretending........

enough is enough.......


if u are not pretending, u will at least acknowledge that at least PBB is conceptually correct based on information supplied by Jaks management to PBB.

dk ...........stop pretending............u lose money, your business.....don't drag every one down with u..........

dk....stop pretending............u lose money, your business.....don't drag every one down with u..........

dk....stop pretending............u lose money, your business.....don't drag every one down with u..........

Sslee > May 14, 2020 8:47 PM | Report Abuse

Haha i3lurker,
The profit is base on 6500hour. Actual operation hour are much higher.

===========


the only basis to work on are the PBB figures given by management to them...........every thing else is based on imaginations....


u not unlike OTB's hours X power X margin = profits ..........this is pure imagination , and over simplified.

dk............pretending can solve problems meh?


..the only time I have seen 12% returns on gross assets for IPPs are those Jho Low transactions..........I scratch your back, u scratch mine.......




IPPs do not give u 12% returns on gross assets..........


they give u 12% return on capital employed very good already.........


PBB have a lower than figure than u , PBB must be wrong meh?

in concept, PBB report is very logical........and correct.

ehome...........the only time I have seen 12% returns on gross assets for IPPs are those Jho Low transactions..........I scratch your back, u scratch mine.......

ehome...........

IPPs do not give u 12% returns on gross assets..........


they give u 12% return on capital employed very good already.........

u don't understand me.........try to understand investee.

Posted by Ehome009 > May 14, 2020 7:14 PM | Report Abuse

qqq333,
I am from engineering field, do not have accounting background, yet I still tried hard to learn about financial jargon and produced an elementary article in an aim to find the fair valuation for JHDP.

You have been talking a lot to undermine the potential valuation of JHDP. I believe you have sound financial background and you should utilise your strength to come out a convincing article to refute DK66 & mine and many other sifus' earning projections. Do not give vague arguments or beat around the bush statements to justify your claims. Be professional, thank you.
=

I believe u...........now your turn to believe me and don't pretend.

what I write not that complicated.........

raid....in 2 years, every thing will be revealed.........

The brilliance of KYY

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/qqq33333333/2020-04-23-story-h150608...

this koan.................very brilliant in buying..........but the track record of his selling not so brilliant...........

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/600317716.jsp

sslee



u think DK and the rest don't know meh? They all pretending only.




https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/600317771.jsp

sslee



u think DK and the rest don't know meh? They all pretending only.




https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/600317771.jsp

so many years, if there are careless conceptual issues, u think PBB do not know meh?

in beginning 2017, PBB had an adjusted NPV of $ 2 , discounted 25% gives a tp of $ 1.50. eventually , the share went to $ 1.80 and collapsed.


since then, the company had many private placements and a revised NPV of $ 1.70 and discounted 30% gives a tp of $ 1.13.

all very fair to me.....


but, there is a problem.....if there are structural/ corporate/ funding issues , the company may not even survive in its present form in next 2 years.

actually its very basic concepts....