Statistics show that only 20% of small investors ever come close to achieving their investment goals. The other 80% get eaten alive by “investment sharks”—investment advisors, fund managers and other hucksters out to line their pockets with your hard-earned cash. Motivated by a sense of fair play, Professor Philip Cheng resolved to write an investor’s survival guide in which he’d share everything he’s learned in his years as a successful professional investor. The result is Taming the Money Sharks.

Since its first Chinese publication in April 2012, “Taming the Money Sharks,” has been on the Commercial Press best selling list in Hong Kong for 3 months.

With me today is the man himself,  retired Chief Investment Officer at MetLife Taiwan, a wholly owned subsidiary of MetLife Inc., New York, the largest Life Insurance Company in the US, with approximately US$800 Billion in total assets under management (AUM). 

Since 1996, and during his 11 years as Chief Investment Officer, he managed a diversified portfolio with total assets under management of approximately US$2 billion. He provided the leadership in setting up of investment policies and strategies to enhance portfolio yield; implementation of asset allocation strategies to increase return on equity; and the oversight and the implementation of risk management tools to achieve optimal return on capital.

Prior to joining MetLife, in the early 1974, he works in the international banking and investment field for 21 years with JPMorgan-Chase. He served as Vice-Presidents in areas of corporate lending, institutional investment banking and property lending activities in New York and major Asian cities.
He has taught at the Graduate School of City University of New York (Management Science) and Beijing University (Portfolio Management).

In the last few years, he has been an active conference speaker in Sydney, Hong Kong, Beijing, Seoul, Taipei, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore on global financial topics: Portfolio Risk Analysis, Diversification and Global Investments; Credit Risk Management; Trade Financing ; and Fixed Income Investments and Markets, among others.

He received his Undergraduate Engineering Degree from the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, USA and his MBA in Finance (Cum Laude) from St. Louis University, St. Louis, Missouri, USA. Since 2007, he has also been appointed Adjunct Associate Professor of Finance at the University of Science and Technology in Hong Kong.

Lieu Ching Foo – Professor.  Now the thing is you have been to both the spectrums. Obviously you are one of the sharks when you manage fund, the large fund for insurance company MetLife and of course I believe you are also a retail investor as well. Now having been to both spectrums, why do you think individual retail investor wanting to get rich but generally they fail miserably?

Professor Philip Cheng – Well that’s a great question. Of course we all are in different situations as a small investor. But we all want to make money. There are mainly three reasons why most of the small investors cannot be successful. Number one is time. Most investors are very busy with their own regular work and they do not have the time, it could be their family, it could be other priority activities. They do not timely do the stock research that they should be doing before they invest. That’s number one – time. Number two is experience. Most of the investors are not directly in the investment business. They may be related to investment, it’s very difficult to know as to  which stock is good and what price to get in and what price to get out. So the second point is experience. Number three – focus. Most individual investors are generally bombarded by misinformation in the market place. They invest on those information alone without doing the kind of research or homework that they need to do. Even simple homework. They are listening to so called noises in a market place. And then they buy, sell stock on that basis. So that’s also a big reason why they lose money since do not have the focus. So the three things – time, experience and focus.

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Lieu Ching Foo – Right! That’s excellent. Regarding the three, the third point professor, I have a further question as in when you say about the information, now everyone likes to reading about the news from the media and things like that. Now how do we actually filter this kind of information? Is it like doing the due diligence is important and stuff like that? 

Professor Philip Cheng – That’s a good question. I have a lot of good media friends. And they all work very hard to find information for investors. So they report a lot of information derived from different sources from big investors, from big companies etc. etc. So they are reporting whatever has been defined for them to report. So that is something that I –  in my book , especially in chapter 3 trying to explain to the investors how to listen to the reports that maybe given by friends who work very, very hard to bring good information to investors. So they can only report.  It’s up to the investors themselves what to consider as good information and good knowledge and that’s a big thing in  my book, to tell the people what to condition themselves to be able to differentiate what is noise and what is good  information.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right, right, right. So, but the thing is again to relate to one of your first, the first point that you mentioned and in the prospective of fund manager –  You have a lot of time and the resource to you know read and filter those information; differentiate what is true information from noises. But this takes times; this takes effort which retail investor actually lacks. Yeah. Would you put it like that Professor Cheng?

Professor Philip Cheng – Well yes! Like I mentioned, most of us do not have enough time to evaluate stocks.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah!

Professor Philip Cheng – Yet we want to make some money to better our life. And that’s why this book makes it so simple to follow certain rules, to follow certain maxims to be able to buy and sell stocks and make some money consistently. And let me go back one second, see there are many kind of sharks but there are two groups of sharks. The first type of sharks are they are simply large operators in the stock market. They execute large orders every day for their own needs. They do not purposely attack the small investors or any other investors for that matter. They have to operate their own large portfolio. However if any small investors get into their way they will get hurt. So that’s what I call the good sharks. They are just huge operators. Then you have the bad sharks, what I call malicious sharks. They on purpose set their scheme against any investors even big and small investors. These sharks would use deceptions to tricks to attack the unwary investors causing loss or total incapacitation. That’s why we have to watch especially for these so called bad sharks. They may hurt investors mostly by misinforming them about the stock market by any means including originating misinformation for their own personal gains. And so these are the people or source of information that we have to be careful.

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Lieu Ching Foo – Right! So you are saying that this information yeah, this information especially from the malicious sharks, like what you mentioned, they are the one that we should be really, really be aware and very cautious about.

Professor Philip Cheng – That’s right. That’s why in chapter 3 I took a lot of time explaining to regular investors how to get information and who to get information from. And that is just as important as just accepting information as knowledge. The difference between regular  information, investment information would be a lot from everywhere from the books, from newspapers, from TV and that’s also excellent  good stock information and we need to tell and that’s why chapter 4 is very important is how to able to evaluate information as good as anybody else.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right, right, right. So and then that would actually decreases, I mean, the likelihood we are being tricked by the malicious sharks so to say.

Professor Philip Cheng – Right, right, right.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right, Right, Just professor, just sidetrack a bit So when you as a, when you managing a large fund in your career in MetLife and you are obviously one of the good sharks, so when things like this happen, so to what extent are the good sharks are also hurt by the bad sharks at your level at that time.

Professor Philip Cheng – No we don’t. Sharks, both good sharks and bad sharks sort of know each other already. So we don’t usually hurt each other. We just sort of co-exist with each other. The bad sharks make their money; the good sharks make their money. But sometimes with small investors get hurt. Let me give you one example. When we are accumulating a position for example in any asset, we start buying in the open market for example and we accumulate every day the volume goes up. And most of the time we see some small investors; they may track the volume of certain stock or certain asset. So they will follow us and also buying after us. And so that is good. That we give them credit. However once we finish buying of one we have to sell certain time, the small investors don’t know even the good sharks own plan of investment. And so they would get hurt as they don’t know when to sell but we may be start selling for our own company needs. And so that’s why following a shark can also be dangerous. We don’t hurt them on purpose but we have our own investment plans to buy and to sell. And that is important. And that’s different then the so called bad sharks. The bad sharks would create information and then to lure investors into certain areas so that to buy and to sell and then they capitalize on the small investors expect. So they create not so good information to influence the stock price for their personal gains. So that’s the big difference between good sharks and bad sharks.

Lieu Ching Foo –  Right! And there is no way, and there is no way investor know because just looking at the volume. The volume transaction balance doesn’t show you whether it is good sharks or bad sharks. Hahaha…

Professor Philip Cheng – That’s right. That’s why in my book I have seen like there are 100 books on how to buy stocks. And that’s why I tried to do something very original in my book. And there are three major differences in my book versus say 99% other stock investment books. Difference number one, during my forty years of experience working in banking and investments, I have played with many types of sharks, good sharks and bad sharks. I was buying and selling – I was literally everyday fighting the battle. So this type of experience is beyond some fancy model or fancy theory. I do not need to be repeat other so called stock Gurus and all their stories. I saw blood everyday myself. Many books tell the readers what not to do and in my penning of the money sharks book, I also tell them what not to do but also tell the readers what to do. And in fact I do have a flowchart to literally holding reader’s hands and guide them step-by-step what to do and what not to do. So that’s point number two. The third major difference is this stock market whether it is in in Malaysia or Singapore or Hong Kong or New York or London, there are always sharks in almost every stock markets. If any, if a future investor wants to swim and still survive they need to know the right information and follow certain actions. Individuals can never kill the shark themselves. The sharks by nature are very powerful.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yes!

Professor Philip Cheng – They are cunning. But certainly by co existing with the sharks, you can swim in your own waters and still get rich. You don’t have to swim in the waters where the sharks are.

Lieu Ching Foo – Now that’s really a great 3 points on how these scopes are different. Because I read them myself and i think these three points, especially flowchart, I think, you need to get this book to really look at that flowchart itself. Yeah professor!

Professor Philip Cheng – Yes. I took a lot of pain in making things simple and I have not seen one single book that have a flowchart in buying stocks, have to go through step by step as you go through what to do and what not to do in the book. Because most investors do not have the time to do a lot of homework, to do a lot of research. They are very busy as I mentioned earlier.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah that is really something I can relate to and you know that’s the, just additional info, Professor Philip, is actually his first degree was an engineer by training and I think Engineers like flowchart very much. It simplifies things when you want to present it to non-engineers and that’s what professor has strived to make it layman for, you know compact, everything.

Professor Philip Cheng – Yeah! That’s a good point because I think through a flowchart you get to look at a picture and know where they are in the decision making in buying stock. For example like let me just very briefly go through say the first step is you have to stay cool. You are receiving tips from your good friend, from your relatives etc., etc. and listen to the tips and then go ahead and buy something just because it is a hot stock. That is the worst thing anybody can do. But I find now that I, met so many individual investors from New York to Hong Kong, to everywhere in the world, 99% they still do it because  they thought if they do not buy after a good stock recommendation they run out of opportunities to make money. And this human emotion that has been making a lot of people lose a lot of money because they rush into something without staying cool. And then they say Professor Why is it so difficult to , you look around yourselves, look at how people lose money including myself. I lost money that way myself is as I mentioned in the book when I was a young Engineer. So I am also the one to blame when I didn’t know the right rules. In any field you have to know the right information. Even plying sports, I like a lot of sports. I like baseball, I like football, I like tennis, I like badminton, I like golf. Every sports have their own rules. You cannot be like that good tennis player and then suddenly go to football and say I am also good in football. No.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right!

Professor Philip Cheng – You are a good football player and walking into the tennis court and saying “Hey, tomorrow I am going to be a good tennis player. There are always rules to follow in any sports. That’s why I amazed how many people they jump from one stock and one industry to another stock and another industry and thought they can also make money. I never understood that.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right!

Professor Philip Cheng – Choosing the right industry is the second step as I mentioned in my book and how to choose it.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yes,  yes, yes. I read that. A few chapters, maybe more than once.

Professor Philip Cheng – In chapter 2 I began to introduce people to finding industry – obviously good industry. But to start with, find out what you are working with for example in the book I mentioned John as an example he is a good IT person department head of a IT department. Yet he lose money in stock market every day, every year. I said “you are a smart guy, you have high IQ, how could you lose money?”. And he told me he does listen and jump from industry to industry. Then I recommended him to stay in one industry. In this case his own profession, IT industry. Buy stocks like IBM or Apple or Samsung or Qualcomm – any of them. Look at the industry; look at the best players in the industry. And then start following the trend or the history and do some simple research – Bingo! to make a long story short…

Lieu Ching Foo –  Right!

Professor Philip Cheng –…He is making money every year now and is a very happy IT guy.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yes, yes, yes. And more peace of mind.

Professor Philip Cheng – More peace of mind too. And that’s so important. My book are basically sought to hold their hand for how to buy stocks and you can have a worry-free portfolio. When the stocks go up or go down you don’t worry about it. You know what you have done.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah! That’s right.

Professor Philip Cheng – Choosing the industry is also important because as you say, Mr Lieu,  that if you are caught in one industry, everything one day a report on industry news or not an industry that you do not have stock in… For example you are in a IT industry and when they are reporting above for example the aircraft industry or the transportation industry, it’s not that important. that you have to change after that. So, and to be able to become peaceful  in one or two industries, your lifestyle would be happier and you are making money at the same time and that’s what I really want to influence people having the money shark book to have a worry free portfolio and yet at the same time make good money in the stock market.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yup! I think Professor Philip, you actually you know if you hear it from someone not fund manager probably, this advice is not so convincing. And the reason why I want you to interview you is because you have been the good sharks. So it has come from someone who has been there, done that and with that kind of credentials, you know, you have managed big money, i think that is very prudent advice that everyone should follow that is why believe. yeah.

Professor Philip Cheng – You are right. Let me remind you there are 68 industries at least  in the world even you don’t sleep, even I don’t  sleep, you and I don’t  sleep and try to be good in 68 industries, even if you don’t sleep, you have to eat, you have to work, you have to do whatever you need to do.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right

Professor Philip Cheng – So 68 industries is too many. In large companies where I used to work or in large banks or large investment companies, they can afford to hire 68 people and have one person to track one industry. That’s why they are so successful. But as an individual small investors we cannot be able to be good in 68 industries. We cannot be good in IT and at the same time be good in real estate. or be good in shipping. We cannot do that. Because in each industry there is terminology to understand, there are rules you have to follow for making the trading spots. If you know the rules tennis, you may not know the rules in soccer or in basketball. They are different. So how do you expect to make money and to be good in any one sport or in this case in stock investment and jumping from one to the other? And that’s why it is a big point to find some industry that you are good in or you like – for example as I mentioned about Mary as an example – she is an accountant. She doesn’t like to do her own profession. She says I am tired; I am tired of balance sheet information. I want to be a happy person, I like to go shopping. That’s fine. If you like to be happy person or like shopping then go with it, look at the luxury goods which you like – Gucci, Tiffany, Rolex watches and you name it, all that big brands. And she does her market research every day. And in chapter 4 how to read simple financial statements and what to look for? And certainly instead of losing money every year she is a very happy accountant.

 

Lieu Ching Foo – That is awesome. That is awesome.

Professor Philip Cheng – I look at it from a people’s angle. I don’t expect them to have a CFA or CFP or PHD or MBA to make big money in the stock market. They do not need those. If you follow this book step-by-step and how to use information, how to study one industry and in chapter four I mention how to look at the stock, how to pick a good stock in a industry and when I was in training in Wall Street in New York we were trained to do 36 financial indicators.

Lieu Ching Foo – 36 Yeah?

Professor Philip Cheng – To make a decision to lend to a company or to buy the stock. I know if I put down in my book, like some other books, put down 36 financial indicators for my readers to follow you know one thing Mr. Lieu, they would not follow. They would say Professor Philip,  you are a crazy man – “I don’t to have time to see 36 indicators for stock I buy”. So then I go back to square one then I start to look at other 36 manageable indicators maybe one maybe three maybe five maybe seven but not thirty six. So we start on five key indicators for you to know how to screen a bad stock from a good stock.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah!

Professor Philip Cheng – And this five, only five, and you do the five indicators and know them that will be good. One thing out of all of the five, one thing is the cash flow. Most people always asks question – “Does the company makes money?”  Then I say it’s the wrong question. They said, “Philip, You are a crazy man. I want to find out if the company makes money.” I said “NO, it’s the wrong question!”

Lieu Ching Foo –  Right!

Professor Philip Cheng – The RIGHT question to ask is – “Does the company produce cash flow from the operations?”

Lieu Ching Foo – Yes, yes. From their core business. Yeah.

Professor Cheng – It is different saying “Oh no, they do” . When a company makes money does not mean they generate cash flow from their operations. So it’s a simple thing like this that I tell you all these years I have tried to manage to make money by looking at the cash flow in a company and not earnings.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right!

Professor Philip Cheng – That’s a huge, huge difference between cash flows. I went through many bad experience myself. When I was very, very young, I also had the same questions that does the company makes money? If it does, it must be a good company. No! I have screened companies out from my lending activities, I used to be a corporate lender, because they made good money on their income statement but they have no cash flows from their operations.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah!

Professor Philip Cheng – They borrow their money from the banks to run their daily business. They keep on building up debts on their balance sheets and yeah it shows up in their good earnings, good earnings per share etc., etc. But that’s wrong.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah! It’s hardcore cash. Yeah.

Professor Philip Cheng – Yes, only cash you can run in business. Of course don’t get me wrong. Earnings are a very good indicator, financial indicator. But the key thing to find in stock is to look at the cash flow. Cash flow meaning from operations, not from funding activities.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right!

Professor Philip Cheng – If it’s a grocery store, they should be selling milk and potato and tomato etc. If they are in IT, they should be selling computers or iPhone or whatever. Not some funny business of other things. So that’s the big difference. Then if you can screen company and buy stocks using this, it will help you tremendously. It is one of the five indicators in the Shark book.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah! And this is basic question an investor should ask themselves when they are screening company and to summarize it is to say like, “make hard cold cash from their core business operations”.

Professor Philip Cheng – Ya, that’s right.

Lieu Ching Foo – Professor. I now just I have a few questions from my readers.

Professor Philip Cheng – Ya, Sure!

Lieu Ching Foo – So they will be interesting. So there is one reader, a reader that asks, since you have been in both spectrums, let’s says out there, there is also private fund managers who manage money for retail investor. Let’s say they don’t want to invest directly in stock, they want to but if they don’t want to invest directly, they will rather give the money to private fund manager, OK, to invest. So it says that what is your take if you were to say that you want to invest in stocks but really don’t want to do homework. I am lazy. Yeah. I just want to just give the money to a private fund. Maybe you, maybe yourself with your credential you can setup probably, you know, a private fund who actually helps people to invest and just pay you maybe 1.5% or things of anual management fee and let you handle all this. What is your take on that? Obviously this is not something that was covered in your book but this reader was very interested to hear your view.

Professor Philip Cheng – OK. It is a great question because many of us still don’t want to buy stocks on our own. They hire financial adviser or investor adviser. That’s fine and probably there are many articles already written on how to choose your own financial adviser but let me add my viewpoints to it. Usually there are rules and regulations you follow how to pick a good one. They may all be fine but they may highlight all the good points, which I myself think is extremely important. Number one is after you have gone through the credentials of your adviser like where they go to school and how many years they worked on and on, basic resume information. That’s fine. That you still need to do that. But one important thing is to ask them, during good times how do they manage their portfolio if your money is their money. What happens in bad times and only through the bad cycles in the stock market and you ask them for example in this case you remember 2008, 2009 what happened to the stock market. And that’s not so long ago. And ask your adviser how did they do? And if they made money, how did they make money. And if they lose money how much did they lose? What did they do to reduce the loses. There were portfolio managers around the world in 2008, 2009 many of them also lost money. But how did they lose money less than most people and that’s more important than during good times when everybody makes money and then they say look at my track record. And that is number one. Number two – follow their logic not just the stuff they buy. For example they buy IBM or buy Apple or buy Samsung or any of the big major companies. What did they do to really be able to outperform the market? They lose money less when in a bad market and they make more money when in a good market and the logic. Go to the reasoning. Not just buy, sell stock. How do they come to the logic? And when you learn their logic and the reason they are thinking, then you will learn this person’s real experience and the way to deal with fire when the fire breaks out. And that is ten times more important than look at the credentials – where they went to school and how many years they worked in some investment company. And that is my humble opinion and I learnt a lot myself. I interviewed financial advisers. I used to be able to be in both situations when I manage a portfolio. There are areas which I have to outsource to another financial advisers. In my portfolio I cannot be good in everything – for example I need to find out at one point in time the emerging market area. If I follow the major markets, that’s fine. But there are areas in emerging market that are very tricky.

Lieu Ching Foo – Right!

Professor Philip Cheng – I do not want to hire a department or a section just to manage emerging market. So I say “OK we don’t have the expertise”. Now you have hire an adviser outside, outsource it to somebody. And then I interview many investment companies. They claimed they are good in the emerging market stocks but whenI asked them when the emerging markets go bad, how did they do it? Many of them say  about how the fancy models they have. They do not know how to handle adversities and that’s why I also mentioned very briefly in chapter 3 as to what to look for. Similar to what I said

Lieu Ching Foo – Yes, yes, yes. Definitely the logic behind. Yes – what’s the decision and when their mettle is really tested when there are really bad times and there is a another way perhaps, Professor – to really quantify maybe even to look at how the fund, the fund manager performs over a complete bull and bear cycles . Is that a fair comment to say so besides the logic?

Professor Philip Cheng – Yes. That’s important too. But I would not; they are good reference information of course. But I would not put too much weight on what they have managed because almost always they will find good information to show you how well they do. And so I tend to use them as good reference but always want to go in how successful they fight the fires that is ten times more important than all those fancy charts with the curves always going up I guess. I think I would ask difficult questions and have them come back to me and because I never know when the next recession is going to be.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yes

Professor Philip Cheng – I want to be able to be say at good time we all prosper, we are all happy, we are opening champagne and everything. I want to know when in bad times with my money in their hands, how do they handle bad times and that is to me more critical.

Lieu Ching Foo – And to top up to this Professor Philip, what he just say, if I myself may sound a bit crude – is that Professor Philip actually wants to know what will you do when the ship hits the fan…

Professor Philip Cheng: I would go back to this book. Frankly I do make mistakes because I am human. I have got human emotions like everyone in the world. But I am making much less mistakes now than when I was say 10-20 years ago. And we go back to chapter 1 very basics. During good times I am not overly happy because I don’t know when to get out, take profit at some point in time. During bad times I am naturally happier. Why?because that’s the time when a lot of good stocks are undervalued.

Lieu Ching Foo – Yeah

Professor Philip Cheng – The times I can really pick them up and I can sit on them for x number of weeks. Then when it comes back, see that’s why bad stock market actually is a good thing. Because now you can get them at good values using the chapters as to How to find good stocks and how to buy, sell stocks and these are all really important. So the stock market whether it is good or whether it is bad is still good to know and follow the book.

Lieu Ching Foo – That’s absolutely, I think to top uptwo points, I think, I am very humbled to be even a, you know, someone of your credentials professor, there is two thing you said, I am human, I make mistakes yeah. And in life if we just make lesser mistakes and make more good decisions, I think we will be doing just fine especially when it comes to investment. And the second thing I caught on what you say is that, even you in your position so many years as a institutional investor and you admit you don’t know everything when you mention about emerging markets. And that is very humbling of you, you know, to say so. Because a lot of people, even retail investor, they thought they know everything. There are things, I don’t know, that I need to outsource. So that is a very humbling statement. So I think everyone can, you know, really learn from your mindset and stuff.

Professor Philip Cheng – Thank you for your kind comments. For me buying and selling stock is to fighting a battle. You have to know your own resources, how much do you have? You have to know your weakness; you have to know your strength. And buying stock is not fun. You have to treat it like a battle, like you are fighting a battle. And to be able to not to subject to your emotions. In chapter seven, I did mention about people loving a stock. They fell in love with the stock. And that is not so good either. Because at the end we are human. I know many friends who stock and when the stock goes down, they don’t want to sell. Finally they lose all their money.

Lieu Ching Foo – One last question Professor. Related to what you just said – cut loss. Ultimately we need to take profit or cut loss.  As institutional investor, that is pretty straightforward, because you have mandate and objectives which determines your buying/selling decision. But retail investor – it is alot about discipline. Can you elaborate more – when to cut loss and when to realize the profit?

Professor Philip Cheng – That’s an excellent question. Like I mentioned in Chapter 4, – once you know the industry well, you know the fluctuations trend that industry. Each industry is different. Let me give you an example, if you are in construction or real este industry, the movement can be quite large. On the other hand, if you look at utility company, they tend to NOT fluctuate that much. Once you know the industry, from the history, you get a feel of how much variations the stock prices are. So you set your stop loss percentage from there. So you can’t really set a random stop loss percentage – NO! You got to get back to your industry. Look at what happened to that industry, during recession, during good times…if you follow this, you’ll be a happier person and you’ll cut your loss, make a lot more money over the long run.

Lieu Ching Foo – Really great comment over here and I like your last phrase – “over long run”. 

Professor Philip Cheng – If you follow the book, you can also do short term, depending on how much time you have. Some of us are not working – you can spend 8 hours a day looking at stock market. Some are very busy with family and work – have only 1 hour every week for stock market. Now if you follow the book, regardless of what, you still make money if you follow the book. So depends on each of our profile in our life. We should be able to retire early and have peace of mind in our lives – not to worry about money, take some good vacations…do something you like, or whatever. I think the stock market give you that chance to better your life – if you follow the right way that is. 

Lieu Ching Foo – Professor Philip, it’s really been a pleasure talking to you. Been there, done that. A good shark! Any last words Professor Philip?

Professor Philip Cheng – we all should be give opportunity to make more money. A better lifestyle, Stock market is one of the many ways that can consistently do that. Just stay away from the sharks to avoid getting burned!

Lieu Ching Foo – Thank you for your time!