@FastMoney
Before labelling me aggressive, you should count the number of post both you and dumb made in icap forum as compare to me.

How can COL fire shots? their own performance is worse than icap, AGM also dont attend. COL has the capital, just they alway want to accumulate at discount to maximise profit potential.

Personal opinion:
“ for iCap shareholders who want to sell, why not take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as close as possible to NAV. Since COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner, it means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of that. ”

@dumbmoney
Well, since your intention is not aligned with majority public shareholders, and consider against the mission of the fund during establishment. I think its pretty normal for the fund manager to view you as a threat to the fund and other shareholders.

Why not just move your capital elsewhere? maybe get FastMoney to manage on your behalf which yield 40% in one quarter. That's a win-win-win for 3 parties.

Personal opinion:
“ for iCap shareholders who want to sell, why not take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as close as possible to NAV. Since COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner, it means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of that. ”

@calvintaneng
thanks for the calculation shared. :)

dumbmoney,
Since you know beforehand its common a CEF will be traded at discount @ NAV, why had you bought into icap and try to get elected to board?

Did you read the prospectus beforehand? Does your action fit the interest of the majority public investors and the investment goal in the prospectus?

So why COL keeps buying? They can buy into other open end funds. Why still buying into a close end fund that some claimed has bad governance and having drama? I see it as action speaks louder than words.

Open end fund doesn’t fit long term value investment philosophy as the fund will be forced to unload and miss opportunity grabbing up bargains when shareholders are in panic situation.
How many percent of public investor is making decent returns over long term? Very little. How many losing a great deal of money over long term? Plenty!


Personal opinion:
“ for iCap shareholders who want to sell, why not take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as close as possible to NAV. Since COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner, it means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of it.”

https://theedgemalaysia.com/article/troubles-icapitalbiz
news from 2012

Does it means the intention to get into the board is to use the fund cash reserves to do buy back to close the gap?

anyone knows what Pegge and Lo action in Amanah Millenia Fund and Amanah Harta Tanah PNB2?

dumbmoney,
You are right, my apology on the % mistakes. So has these two blocks join hands now? why are they nominating you to the board? What's the goal?

observatory,
you got the rights to challenge the board as long you are shareholder, looking towards it. Ain't the discount happens before the 6.6 million charges?

Based on 2012 and 2013 annual reports, in top 30 shareholders list, ASING only jointly owned around 12%.
Which means they voted for all the outsiders seeking board seats.

Thanks to dumbmoney pushes me to dig in deeper.

Personal opinion:
“ for iCap shareholders who want to sell, why not take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as close as possible to NAV. Since COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner, it means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of it.”

I recalled the updates on dual listing exercise in HK was provided shareholders back then by Mr.Tan. Whether there's a vote or not I cant recall, nor the evidence of vote on it, have to seek clarification from ICAP BOD if "expenses on capital dynamic" is mentioned to shareholders before.

For now, my position is still keep holding and add on when NAV gap widens.
Though the 6 million is charged to the fund, and not selling PAKRSON at its height, selling Vitrox too early are mistakes, .ICAP grows the NAV from RM1 to RM3.6, which I appreciate the performance.
I dont expect my fund manger to be a saint who never fail in every single investment decision.

Personal opinion:
“ for iCap shareholders who want to sell, why not take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as close as possible to NAV. Since COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner, it means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of it.”

@calvintaneng THplant debt is still pretty high, wouldnt Jtiasa a safer investment?

1. dumbmoney claimed no ties to COL
2. Lo Kok Kee is being called out as @dumbmoney in AGM and roadshows
3. Lo received 12% support in 2012 AGM resolution votings

Question:
- How does Lo get the 12% support? Does his name apppear among the top 30 shareholders top list?
- Is Lo Kok Kee really dumbmoney? if not, why dont mr Lo sue Mr Tan for 'Penghasutan'

Personal opinion:
“ for iCap shareholders who want to sell, why not take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as close as possible to NAV. Since COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner, it means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of it.”

While searching if there’s voting session on dual listing expenses approval (yet to found it), found the following:

https://disclosure.bursamalaysia.com/FileAccess/apbursaweb/download/?name=EA_GM_Attachments&id=6053

https://www.asiaasset.com/post/3408-capitaldynamics-sc

Very interesting :)

I do agree. Too many die hard fans in that room, which I dislike as it’s a check and balance risk.
Didn’t ask anyone to sell, I said if you want to sell, queue it high close to NAV, please don’t twist my words.

“ for iCap shareholders who want to sell, you can take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner. It means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of it.”

I’ll keep reminding all shareholders over the risk of COL. and for those who want to sell, you can take advantage of the situation by queuing at high price as COL keeps buying even the row with the fund manner. It means they need to buy, so let’s take advantage of it.

@dumbmoney
the foreign limit ligation is explained in their road show.
Investor who chooses to unload below NAV, doesn’t unload above NAV are both willing to forego values. Else they should go for mutual funds not close and fund. There sets more investor seeking shares below NTA even the company is loaded with cash.
I’m equally not happy with all dual listing fee, but what if it succeed? Didn’t shareholders voted to support the dual listing exercise after all?
I can see you are trying to sidestep certain questions and facts presented. So I won’t want to waste more of your time in discussion.

@dumbmoney

Based on 2.1 from https://citlon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/AnnualStewardshipReport3-23.pdf.
Here's my thought:
COL suggests share buy back to narrow the gap. if this is obligated, COL can unload their shares at NAV level via ICAP cash holdings and reap a handsome profit. until the cash runs dry, the stock price will be subjected back to discount level again, then COL can scoop up more shares again and wait for the time where the fund manager to unload stocks to turn into cash, and forced to do buy back again.

Btw, COL own fund performance sucks, I'm not interested to let they appoint someone to the board, are you?

@SSLee its not your fault, those companies are run by china crooks. When KYY promote xingquan, I was staying in China and the brand is no where to be seen, and no one knows about them when i ask around.

Its SC fault allowing them to list on Bursa without proper check and balance.

@dumbmoney
Since you dedicated so much time in icap forum,
May I ask if you prefer icap to continue managed by mr.Tan? manage by some others? or get liquidated?

@dumbMoney

Amanah small cap fund numbers from Bursa
first report of NAV (Jan 2000) : 0.975
Last report of NAV pre liquidation (sep 2007) : 1.15
total dividend payout during the period : 10.5cents

It means in 7 years, it only grows around 25-30%. If I'm shareholder, I would also prefer it to be liquidated.

@dumbmoney
To me COL is a risk, I dont knows what's their motives. and they didnt even attend this year agm to challenge the fund manager.

Thanks for sharing the CEF liquidated by the banks themselves. I see most institution benchmark performance at a short term, by liquidating it can brings 15-30% gain in performance, good for their annual performance.

Can you share what's the NAV CAGR performance of the Singapore CEF and Amanah small cap fund pre liquidation ?

@RISK8888 The only reason they privatise is they see potential way beyond the offer price. so why hope they privatise and pay us peanuts?

Shareholder Activism Threatens Closed-End Funds and Their Investors
https://www.ici.org/viewpoints/23-closed-end-fund-threats

Hedgefund hostile takeover of Close End Fund.
https://www.pionline.com/hedge-funds/saba-capital-takes-blackrock-other-managers-closed-end-funds-trading-discount.

If they can attack BlackRock CEF and Adams CEF, As icap long term investor we better not let our guard down.

Is the COL issue being overplayed by Mr.Tan? maybe, but better overplay than underplay.
Is the fund manager doing a good job in managing the fund? If he is not, why is COL keep buying unless they have other agendas not aligned with long term investor.

Shareholder Activism Threatens Closed-End Funds and Their Investors
https://www.ici.org/viewpoints/23-closed-end-fund-threats

Hedgefund hostile takeover of Close End Fund.
https://www.pionline.com/hedge-funds/saba-capital-takes-blackrock-other-managers-closed-end-funds-trading-discount.

If they can attack BlackRock CEF and Adams CEF, As icap long term investor we better not let our guard down.

Is the COL issue being overplayed by Mr.Tan? maybe, but better overplay than underplay.
Is the fund manager doing a good job in managing the fund? If he is not, why is COL keep buying unless they have other agendas not aligned with long term investor.

@icap local shareholder, lets hold on to our shares and only queue sell as close to NAV level as possible, if NAV level is met, then queue at premium level.
Let's see if COL willing to pay a price in closing the gap or get a controlling stake before March hearing.

@dumbmoney I only aware your name LKK was called out during AGM, was your photo being flashed on screen?
No need to worry for your life, even hostile takeover during EGM/AGM wont result in blood sheds in Malaysia. Malaysia chinese comes with a loud voice but soft in action.

I would be patiently waiting for your reply on why do you keep vested despite being treated like such. And why COL keep buying despite such bad relationship with Mr.Tan. If this is not a close end fund, institution investor would have dispose their stake even losing money.

COL overall is buying, but they also sell along the way, which is common in share price manipulation. This is being showcased by the two academician during AGM, if they are lying, why not COL drag both to court?

@dumbMoney Cant comment much on your business school as I'm am not in the loop on the dispute between you and mr. Tan on the subject.

Sorry for calling you attacking, perhaps you are just challenging for your rights. But what you posted here in my opinion is driving away retail investor from icap stock.
So why do you keep vested ? do you believe COL will close the gap? or Mr.Tan ability to deliver hence share price trade at premium?
And you are willing to pay the opportunity cost for holding it at a discount?

@SSLEE Can you share why dispose INSAS at 1.20? PE 7, the NAB is 3.50 and been increasing almost at 10% yearly for past 3 years.

@dumbmoney
https://citlon.com/emerging-markets-cef/
COL overall return is poorer than icap, I don't get what you mean by " If their investment funds are well diversified and have gains else where, they can afford to take the loss on their portfolio if need be. "
icap could be their best investment thus far. And they are struggling for survival. If Mr.Tan can be pressured and attacked by you guys at such level, what kind of pressure will COL taken.

@Fastmoney Not sure what chart are you talking about. You are selecting certain time frame to justify COL action, just need to put yourself in COL shoes.
1. if COL plan to hold long term for NAV appreciation and growth improvement, they would like to accumulate as much as possible at low price.
2. if COL wants an exit at close to NAV. they might pop up the share price, but who will be buying their large chunk at that level? you?
3. if COL able to remove mr. Tan. They can appoint a FM with different investment methodology, worst case they can misuse the funds to work with companies to manipulate share price. Or small holders might dispose their holdings in view Mr.Tan not in charge, and COL would be able to scoop up more shares at lower price, and go for liquidation.

Recent AGM voting turn out is around 70%, so there's possibility if COL keep accumulating. not everyone would be able to make it to vote in EGM.

You are picking a specific timeframe to justify COL buying increase the share price.
If that's really the case, why is the gap not close before COL is being blamed?

Whether Mr.Tan claim on danger of being taken over is valid is not my concern. As shareholder what's your concern on him making such claim ? Why do you care if there's an injunction on COL or not?

What' COL intention in investing in icap?

TP RM3 with annual free cash flow of RM250 mil

@dumbMoney I don't like the idea a foreign fund pursuing a board seat in the fund with the power to remove the fund manager, the fund is set up based on Mr.Tan investment strategy.

If COL bought into the fund just for growth, I'm fine, but it's pretty obvious they are accumulating for a controlling stake, with hostile attitude towards the fund.

As a institution fund, their performance sucks, and yet some of you are defending COL.
https://citlon.com/emerging-markets-cef/

Hearing postpone, here's my personal opinion:
foreign institution will scoop up as much as possible before the hearing,
Malaysia shareholders who aim to unload can take advantage and queue at higher price close to NAV.

How to justify a company with annual revenue around 30million deserve a market cap of more than 2 billion previously?

To be fair, besides blaming the management, perhaps you should ask yourself how come you didn't buy a lot at 25 cents pre distribution and reinvest around 25 cents after distribution.
With such you would have be in profit.

Bandar Malaysia land is commercial land close to city centre, jtiasa palm oil land is leasehold expiring around year 2065 and situated on an island with single road access.

is it appropriate to compare both?

not really, as long they can generate more cash inflow from the subsidiaries and JV. there's more to be distribute through CRP

Liew Kee Sin shareholding has increase to a level of more than before he start selling. :)
Let's wait for the unlock of land bank value.

anyone got updates on its business?

Despite so many condemning comments has been made since the capital reduction, and yet price still remains above 30 cents :)

If just good news would immediately lift a stock, majority wont lose money in stock market...

anyone took the recent dividend payout and buy more ewint shares at 0.28-0.30 range will be laughing to the bank at 30% gain within a year.

@soon9913 its better to be extra cautious during turbulent time, it will maximise shareholder benefits when the time is right. Operating expenses wont be that much if there's no projects.

@RISK8888 why dont you write to SC to complain the company, and see that helps in recovering your initial investments.

Or you could write to IR to get info to share with us, which will benefit everyone.

@RISK8888 there's also a impairment write back of 64million, so what does that tell you?

Current Qtr:
Operating cash Flow +20 million
Repayment from JV + 260 million
Total +280million
divided by 2.4billion shares,
almost RM0.11 cash increase per share(which 6 sen declared as dividend payout)

Share price only at RM0.36.

I'll just sit and wait for revaluation of the PPE through GDV. Hope they wont privatize it.

@SSLEE I think valueing the land ownership purely based on CPO output is different if also considering converting to commercial land. Also the lease vs freehold period thing.

Dear SEE_Research, hope you and calvin can have your brawl elsewhere, becoz its disturbing other investors who are here to discuss stocks.

Maybe you can open a blog to screw him or something, please dont do it here.

@calvintaneg

KGB ROCE is high compare to Jtiasa, and some contract is long term. The CEO also speaks way better and give investor more confident.

@Sslee Are you having some personal grudge with Tony Fernandez or something?