where are they going to build their affordable housing? I think it is going to be Sungai Long? Don't think they will go bankrupt anytime soon - but then, i don't know how long the share price will be stuck at that range?

in their recently released quarterly reports, they say - they are shifting their priorities to building affordable housing. Cannot see that in their pipeline. Same like you - i also kena trap by sharks...

two to three years??????????????????????????????????????????????

this counter - very hard to die ~ all their landbank is akin to gold~!

the way i look at it, they pay big fat pay check for the directors and above. Datuk Azman Yahya's pay was about RM1.8M. Hopfully, he does not treat SymLife as a piggy bank for himself.........

After buying this counter, i start to learn a very important lesson. Earnings is more important than assets. The speed that management is able to turnaround and profit from their assets (payback period) is more important than holding alot of assets. Admittedly, SymLife is really undervalued but then, so what?

Their flagship now is Star Residences (more than 80% booking) to boost their unbilled sales to RM400.0M++ (from their previous RM100.0M++). What about their other projects? It appears their other project's take up rate is just so-so (not breaching the 60% rate that developers need to break even). They want to crave a niche market as a premium property developer - one that specialises in developing high end properties but then, their product's quality sub par.

It is nice to know from their latest quarterly report their net assets per share backing is about RM2.00++. By my computations, it is more than that. So what? Now, we want them to turn these assets into high EPS. High EPS will bring in higher share prices to benefit us, shareholders.

QR should be released either by today or tomorrow.

this counter looks like a value trap....

@ bluefun, what is your average cost? I am planning to buy comes March 5th when the mothership comes to dock at the port.

I will buy when the price is lower than RM1.50.

sorry - what is the meaning of value trap?

adui...my mother ship comes in this March 5th and this baby sudah pancut...what lar????

Quarterly results very likely to be out by the end of this week...

so all sifus, what do you expect to see next year in FY16???? It seems the government will start to roll out all the big ticket items for infrastructure development....

@ ding dong - just asking, why do you say Gadang is going to worth RM4 ? Also, why so confident that Gadang will win new construction contracts?

@ bluefun, wait first....wait one or two weeks after CNY....let it come down abit...then, we sama sama masuk and sapu Gadang...

by the way....anyone got Fututec? the company is not bad....diversified conglomerate - just like Gadang - and the net cash position is stronger than Gadang.

this counter...wanna go broke also very hard

@ bluefun, of course i am going to buy...now, waiting until the 1st week of March, hopefully, can buy at RM1.40 to RM1.45

why cannot see in Bursa website?

when quarterly reports going to be released?

comparing this with GKent, which one is better?

can anyone educate me what is so good about GKent?

steady - here she goes.

post CNY cheap sales is coming - can't wait....

if miss this round - still got lots of opportunities for bottom fishing.

i heard that many times liaw....reminiscent of thunder without the impending rain.

but better than symlife...symlife straight away konke ~! mati pucuk~!

erectile dysfunction one....need viagra

Regardless of whether it is terrace houses, bungalows, semi-detached, villas, condos or shoe boxes in the sky, this coming Quarter result is very important ~! Without the once off gain arising from disposal of CESP, last quarter was in the red due to the delays in launching several projects. The gain from the disposal is used to pare down bank borrowings and its trade payables. SymLife has got alot of potential - let us hope this kid will grow up uccessful one day and not end up as a junkie on the roadside.

Hanibal rising....ini kali lahhhh

somebody, please give him Viagra~!

erectile dysfunction

Hannibal rising.......ini kali lah.....

Hi KCChongnz,
What is the meaning of
"Gadang is not a Graham net net stock. It appears to be inexpensive earnings wise at the price you mentioned."
Care to elaborate? Also, how do we value the earnings?

As usual, thanks for your input.

Hi kcchongnz, may i ask some help from you ? recently, i performed a valuation on Gadang using net net assets valuation method (ben graham) to determine the downside risk. It seems Gadang is a good buy as long as it is between RM1.30 to RM1.40. Is it ok if i email you my thinking process ? It will be great if you can access the reasonableness of my thinking...

@ logitrader, what does "others" mean?

problem is how they are going to goreng? given that the share is soo illiquid?

ini plenitude....cash rich company ....rich land bank - tapi suffering from erectile dysfunction - kena bagi viagra !

@ icon8888, my portfolio currently has SymLife, GOB + Plenitude. Currently, looking at Gadang and probably a few furniture export counters.

But then, Gadang has shot up today by 5 cents. Never mind...

Just asking, i did some long posting at SymLife forum. Do you mind to hop over there to check whether my thinking is sound/ rational?
Currently, bleeding quite heavily for SymLife as well.

Have to use boxes of Kotex to stop the bleeding...

Kudos to Icon8888. All of his stocks selection for 2014 is inching up slowly ~ like Gadang and GOB. :-)

slowly coming...

What if someone is unfortunate to buy before the market experienced a steep correction in Q4'14? The question now is whether RM1.20 is considered expensive for SymLife?

The net assets per share (based on net net Ben Graham valuation method) is RM0.93.
Assuming if someone privatized SymLife by paying RM1.20.
He is paying RM83.7M in terms of goodwill on business acquisition (RM0.27 x 310.0M)

Is this way too much to pay? To put things into perspective: Based onhttp://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/cube/post/james70.jsp

The 29.2 acres of Puchong land is valued at RM189.4M (RM150 psqf [being conservative instead of using RM170 psqf ~ this is what MahSing paid) x 43560 x 29.2 acres]
This land is carried at SymLife's books at RM33.9M
Revaluation gain: RM155.5M
Goodwill on acquisition as a percentage of the revaluation gain = 53.8%

What does this mean?
By paying RM1.20, the acquirer is obtaining all of the net assets of SymLife and is paying only for half of the market price of the Puchong land.

In addition, this is what he got away for free:
- the revaluation gain for the 419 acres of Sungai Long land (conservatively priced at RM80 per square feet).
- the profit contribution coming in from The STar residences, TWY Mont' Kiara, Desiran Bayu and Tijani Raja Dewa (although this project may be affected by the major flood in Northern Malaysia). The profits are expected to come online later in FY2015 (watch out for Q3/Q4'15 quarterly results).

At RM1.20, this is literally a daylight robbery. What is essentially a daylight robbery (at RM1.20) transpires into a daylight murder (at RM0.84).

I believe that as management continues to monetise those lands and stop screwing up (such as some projects got delayed resulting in Q2'15 operating profit to drop by 50.0%), Symlife has a fair chance to shoot until RM2.00. This RM2.00 is obtained by way of a very, very conservative RNAV approach.

I agree - execution is key. Symlife needs to polish on their execution in monetising their landbanks. The quality of their execution needs to reach the level of Tambun Indah.

Anyway, patience is a virtue.

brother, i would like to buy GADANG, but the problem is that i am out of ammo. Waiting for month end pay to come in to load up on GADANG.

When is GADANG going to increase? Going to catch it before it flies...but the thing is that i won't be too agitated if it does...because chances are it may fall again in such a bear market.

don't forget the land bought for Sungai Long at SymLife's books are dirt cheap. They can easily do charity by selling double storey terrace houses at Sungai Long at RM550K.

come and think of it - many people are concerned about whether property developers can survive this soft market.... but then, the way i think of it - Symlife's balance sheet is strong (based on the BenGraham net assets valuation performed). And then, the lands that they carry in their balance sheet are very cheap - assuming if management are the laid back type of people - they just need to break even quarter in and quarter out. Based on Q2'15, sales revenue of RM50K per quarter is enough to break even liaw. Furthermore, management has not yet even start to tap into the potential of Sungai Long. They kind of enjoy entering into JVs with other developers and working on miscellaneous projects.

Based on this reasoning, to me, SymLife should be able to survive this storm.

Differences in ideas are welcomed.

Hi guys - would like to ask for your opinion. Which is more important? Strong balance sheet or strong earnings visibility?

just asking, why do you think it will go up within this month?

Kok Onn himself had come out and make a statement that the outlook for construction sector is likely to be soft this year.

But i agree. Long term outlook for this company is very good. Both the plantation sector and the water treatment sector will provide long term recurring income for this company. The JFApex analyst report and states both these sectors are likely to yield RM10.0M PBT. The property business segment is expected to provide strong gross margin given that Gadang itself is a construction company. Hence, they are unlikely to outsource the construction of properties (within the property business segement) to outsiders and therefore stand to earn a larger profit margin.

But then, unlike property developers who sit on large tracts of land, Gadang's landbank is somewhat limited. And being a conservative long term investor, i like my companies to have strong tangible assets backing per share. Something that Gadang does not seem to have. But i have to admit, their balance sheet is net of cash. I kind of like to value companies based on the strength of their balance sheet and their landbanks rather than profitability because future profitability may change over time ~ therefore making it harder to predict. With landbanks, we can know for sure what is the minimum gains the companies stand to make given that market price of the landbanks can easily be verified by valuer's report and the cost can be obtained from the books. Furthermore, land is an asset that appreciate with time - unlike the construction machineries that depreciate over time. Detractors may say - depreciation will attract capital allowances and therefore can be used as a deferred tax asset to offset against future profitability. In a way, this reduces cash outflows ( a form of savings) but deferred tax asset is not a hard asset like landbanks.

Having said this, i have to admit Gadang's earning visibility is there evidenced by Capital 21, construction order books for earthwork for RAPID and MRT Phase 2 and affordable housings under the Prima project.

Hopefully, i can collect 1K to 7K units by the end of this month. Anyway, no hurries because i learnt my lessons well. This is a bear market. Learnt it from GOB + SymLife.

Hi JN88, if Symlife gonna build double storey terrace house (at RM550K) at their Sungai Long land - it will be fully snapped up despite this weak market. Hahaha

company is cash rich - but not land rich. Limited land bank...

@ nemesis,
I agree with you that 2015 will be a pretty rough year for SymLife's sales because most of its product offerings are targeted at the high end market segment. This is what i found out: (from Q2'15 results + other medias).

Elevia Residences: GDV RM120.0M - take up rate 60%
Star Residences Phase 1: Take up rate 80.0%. (unknown GDV attributable to SymLife since this is a JV with UDALand).
I believe these two projects would add significantly to the unbilled sales from Q3'15 and beyond.

Desiran Bayu Klang Valley GDV RM80.0M - no worries about this take up rate - since all the construction costs/ property development expenses would be recognised in the accounts already because this is a Build, then sell concept and sales revenue will be recognized later (subsequent to the cost).

The rest which is a question mark???
TWY Mount Kiara: GDV RM400.0M - take up rate Unknown
Tijani Raja Dewa: GDV RM160.0M - pretty bad news here as the flood has badly affected Kota Bharu

Whoever that buys SymLife at RM0.84 is literally buying gold. Applying BenGraham’s net asset valuation method (the lowest form of valuation) assuming if the company is liquidated tomorrow and the assets go on immediate fire sale. Hence, we assigned a huge discount to some of the assets when computing the book value of assets backing per share.

Fixed assets:
Freehold land: RM526K
Leasehold land: RM14,235K
Land held for property development: RM202,496K
Investment properties: RM9,030K

Current assets:
Other receivables
(RM51,541K x 70%) RM36,078K
Property development costs
(RM369,807K x 70%) RM258,864K
Inventories
(RM6,305K x 50%) RM3,152K
Trade & other receivables
(RM150,269K x 70%) RM105,188
Cash and bank RM107,351K

Less: total liabilities: (RM448,142K)
Total net assets RM288,778K
Net assets backing per share RM0.93
Assigning a 10% margin of safety (RM0.09)
Current share price RM0.84

Apart from paying RM0.84, what are the investors getting free of charge???

Here, we have not yet even factored in:
- the revaluation gain for the 419 acres of Sungai Long land (conservatively priced at RM80 per square feet) and the 29.2 acres of land at Puchong (conservatively priced at RM150 per square feet).
- the profit contribution coming in from The STar residences, TWY Mont' Kiara, Desiran Bayu and Tijani Raja Dewa (although this project may be affected by the major flood in Northern Malaysia). The profits are expected to come online later in FY2015 (watch out for Q3/Q4'15 quarterly results).

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/cube/post/james70.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/cube/post/james70.jsp?fp=2

http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2015/01/10/Gadang-adopts-cautious-outlook-for-this-year-Company-to-focus-on-Rapid-jobs-in-the-interim/?style=biz

Even Kok Onn himself admitted that he is not overly bullish about clinching more construction jobs this year (2015). So, no hurries to jump in and buy immediately. As long as the price stays below RM1.40, there is no hurries to buy.

One lesson i learn from both SymLife and GOB...and probably will stay with me for the rest of my life.