Posted by hw0706 > 2012-09-11 14:56 | Report Abuse

you yourselve. is your decision to sell and is your decision to buy

Posted by chongkonghui > 2012-09-11 14:59 | Report Abuse

Really 80% Make Loss?

Only 80%?

OR more than 80%?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-09-11 18:41 | Report Abuse

There are many individual investors who claim that they have been making tons of money in the market. The majority of these people probably have forgotten, or refuse to remember that they have lost a sum more than what they have made some time ago. It is a jungle out there in the stock market. Many investors get pulled in by the greater fool theory and buy stocks at all-time highs only to panic later during a pullback. Few individual investors have the necessary skills to pick stocks. It is not that simple as price-earnings ratios, price-to-book etc. Neither a person with MBA or CFA (certified financial analyst) is sure to make excess return in the market. In their 2009 paper on “option trading and individual investor performance” , Rob Bauer, Mathijs Casemans and Piet Eichholtz examine the performance and persistence of individual investors trading at a Dutch online broker. Using a database consisting of more than 68,000 accounts and eight million trades in stocks during January 2000 to March 2006, they find that: During 2000-2006, the average investor has negative alphas, meaning the return is below the market return. Not even the top tenth of performance manages to beat the market consistently. Those in the bottom tenth of performance lose more than 90% of value.

Posted by usry > 2012-09-11 18:48 | Report Abuse

bro kcchonghz: good points of view.

Posted by onekane > 2012-09-11 19:39 | Report Abuse

No need to beat the market la. Can beat the low 3.15% FD rate is enough already.

Posted by arebear > 2012-09-11 19:50 | Report Abuse

If they cant beat the market than surely they cant beat the Unit Trust especially in Malaysia... some of the good unit trust can easliy perform to beat the market... therefore... those 80% traders should be into unit trust

Posted by shirley1 > 2012-09-11 20:32 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, heard bout 80% is losing money in share market since the day i start buying shares. but i believe the longer the investor stay in share market the lower the risk you know, the chances lose money is min if buy index link counters, and adjust them from time to time.

base on the KLCI. you see huh, assume someone unlucky buy in 1993, 1996 or 2007 where index is 1275.32, 1237.96 or 1445.03, today still winning money base on 1600. if lucky buy in 1997, today probably make alot of money. no wonder la, alot of ppl waiting the market to come down.. LOL

of course it is a challenge la on how to get good or maximise the return by rebalancing your portfolio from time to time, and sometime it also depend on luck la. :)


year KLCI change %
1976 95.83
1977 113.39 15.49
1978 156.22 27.42
1979 205.58 24.01
1980 366.70 43.94
1981 380.81 3.71
1982 291.44 30.66
1983 401.60 27.43
1984 303.55 32.30
1985 233.47 30.02
1986 252.43 7.51
1987 261.18 3.35
1988 357.38 26.92
1989 562.27 36.44
1990 505.92 11.14
1991 556.22 9.04
1992 643.96 13.63
1993 1275.32 49.51
1994 971.21 31.31
1995 995.17 2.41
1996 1237.96 19.61
1997 594.44 108.26
1998 586.13 1.42
1999 812.33 27.85
2000 679.64 19.52
2001 696.09 2.36
2002 646.32 7.70
2003 793.94 18.59
2004 907.43 12.51
2005 899.79 0.85
2006 1096.24 17.92
2007 1445.03 24.14
2008 876.75 39.33
2009 1272.78 54.83

Posted by tptan45 > 2012-09-11 21:02 | Report Abuse

Picking winning stocks is very simple actually, using the available data available on the internet. No hard formulas or equations needed.
It is the discipline that is hard. It is the belief in yourself when the market plunge that is hard.
Like what Lynch said, the key organ is the stomach.

Posted by gkheng > 2012-09-12 00:05 | Report Abuse

Picking winning stocks ？pick those high ROE , high DY & low PE?

Posted by Taugeh > 2012-09-12 00:11 | Report Abuse

Buy Reits and leave them for 5 years..+ve returns for sure..150%

Posted by PaulinaYong > 2012-09-12 00:47 | Report Abuse

AMB VALUE TRUST offer you 500% RETURN in 5YEARS...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-09-12 07:08 | Report Abuse

Pauline, you have met a snake oil salesman from AMB. Caveat emptor!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-09-12 07:36 | Report Abuse

shirley, you are talking about a buy-and-hold strategy on the KLCI index. Yes, I agree you should not lose money as buying shares long-term is like buying the part business of a Malaysian company which should normally grow in tandem with the overall economy. But the question is, are you happy with the return compared with the opportunity cost of your investment? Take for example the data provided by you for the index in 1993, 1997 and 2007 and roughly compute their respective compounded annual return (CAR) as shown in the table below.
year 1993 1997 2007 2012
KLCI 1275 1238 1445 1614
Years 19 15 5 0
CAR 1.2% 1.8% 2.2%
Have you forgotten the initial service charge, the management expense ratio etc if you invest in an index fund sold by a fund management company? What would be your return if these costs are included? Isn't it better to just put your money in bank? Of course one should not choose the years when the index is high to compare with their return. The long run return of Bursa should be about CAR of 10%. But again with all the costs involved if you go through a unit trust, you will be surprised what is your final return.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-09-12 07:49 | Report Abuse

arebear, are you sure unit trusts easily perform better than the market? Unfortunately with heaps of academic researches, among them of the famous Michael Jensen (1968), Grinblatt and Titman (1989), and Burton Malkiel (1995) which comprehensively evaluate fund performance, consistent show that actively managed funds do not outperform various broad market benchmarks as evidenced by the negative alphas. This is best explained by the efficiency market hypothesis which postulates that in an efficient capital market, current market prices reflect all available information about a security and the expected return based upon this price is consistent with its risk. With this, the under-performance of the mutual funds/unit trusts can be solely attributed to the costs of investing in them. Very few investors understand the complexities of unit trust fund expenses. These costs include expense ratio, transaction costs (brokerage commissions, market impact cost, and spread cost), tax costs, cash drag, soft dollar cost and advisory fees. The total cost per year can add up to about 4% per annum, which is equal to 40% of a long-term return of equity investment!

Posted by shirley1 > 2012-09-12 08:30 | Report Abuse

thank you kcchongnz :)

think still need unit trusts in the market. % of NAV to Bursa Malaysia Market Capitalisation is around 15 to 20%.

btw, i'm not unit trust agent, have a nice day :)

Posted by chongkonghui > 2012-09-12 09:06 | Report Abuse

Managed fund usually Open-ended Fund, which subject to many restriction and the COST is way too high for many investors.

There will be more fund in the market, sale-driven, because too many young adults are too lazy to learn the art and skill of investment. They choose to leave it to the so-called "Pro" to handle their money.

As individual retail investors, actually is good news, less people compete with you, for good and value stock, which essentially are rare commodities, in the time when too much money being printed/created year by year.

Posted by tptan45 > 2012-09-12 09:25 | Report Abuse

Used to look highly upon fund managers with their deep knowledge of the macro micro factors blah blah blah.
I am a newbie and still beat them hands down in performance.
My unit trusts are still in the red , but I am thinking of redeeming them to invest myself.

Posted by shirley1 > 2012-09-13 08:22 | Report Abuse

buy share 80% lose money, buy unit trust all lose money one also, put in bank our money cannot fight inflation.

for majority investors like this die like that also die. so look like most ppl got not many choices. just work harder for money.. sob2 :(

Posted by dknycom > 2012-09-13 08:27 | Report Abuse

If want to invest, please study the company financial status first.
Not to buy those LOSE MONEY ONE & NO PROFITS ONE. WASTING TIME ON IT.

Posted by shirley1 > 2012-09-13 08:32 | Report Abuse

thank you dknycom. you always the positive one...

i think need not to be rocket scientist lor to buy shares, and expect our share to rocket everyday.. LOL

Posted by andy118 > 2012-09-13 08:54 | Report Abuse

Actually to make money in the market is not that difficult. We make it more difficult as we are impatient and try to me more clever and want to earn quick and high profit (of course me included). In the short term we made it but after that we lose our gains and our capital. I am sure our REIT will beat those unit trusts and also unlikely to lose money in the long run. Happy investment everybody.

Posted by Ong Beng > 2012-09-13 09:15 | Report Abuse

Buy shares,unit trust lose money.Put in FD will also lose money,because the value of our money is shrinking,exp.apiece of Kuhn lapis cost 25sen 3years ago,now cost 50sen and the size shrinks.

Posted by Ong Beng > 2012-09-13 09:23 | Report Abuse

To me buying REIT shares is more stable.

Posted by TreFoil > 2012-09-13 11:45 | Report Abuse

Agreed with Ong Beng.... Buying REIT better choice!