But make sure TTB don't suka suka do what he wants

After made enough money if iCap still sell for 40% discount... Park the money again in iCap... Buy at 40% discount sell at 20% discount cukup lo

Haha... The other way round... Should let dumbMoney manage... my was a fluke... Thanks to SSLee brought up the idea of Insas. I was skeptical at first but pure luck.

It just rocketed... In a bull market... Normal...

Nobody happy with Insas that sells at a deep discount...some try to push to unlock the value but with not much success. The owner was just passive.... Somehow sudden volume spike triggered the demand for such value play in our bolehland now.... Price is catching up with the value. There is also more awareness on such deep discounts exist attracts investors and speculators alike. Price goes up, price comes down, life goes on. The difference is these onwers will not claim they are better than the best - - an invitation to challenge. 😂😂

If he didn't take COL to the court, no drama.

If no escalation on SICDA, also no drama.

Drama was created by TTB.... If he didn't overblown the issues. The issue would have died after the AGM.

This remind me of an OB class on paradigm

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/paradigm-shift--352828952039869457/

Do we see a young lady or an old ug_ly lady?

This remind me of an OB class on paradigm

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/paradigm-shift--352828952039869457/

Do we see a young lady or an old ugly lady?

@dumbMoney, unfortunately, followers of TTB will see only 1 point, Lo proposed to convert from a closed end fund to open ended fund and ignoring the other points - it was not a performance problem but it was a liquidity(lack of demand) was the reason of discount between NAV to market price.

If you feel Lo with only 22,500 shares at that time, how much can he benefited? Do you think it is worthwhile he endures the shit for a few thousand ringgit?

what ever POP investment or COL want to do, it is their business. Personally, I am a capitalist, only 1 thing I concern, Return on Investment. Was glad to sell iCap and bought Insas and JTiasa, sitting nicely on 40% profit on Insas and 20% on JTiasa

It's the same fear mongering that TTB employs along your thinking...it must be hearing too much and too long from him...I believe we soon our shares in iCAP will go down to zero of which impossible to influence anything. you can be rest assured....

It's too speculative on your side keep hantam on the point of closing down fund or and etc....but you keep forgeting it needs 75% approval from shareholders which they don't have...why keep going round and round...

Patient Investor, even Pegge or Lo successful elected into the board in 2012, there still 3 directors from TTB side, so it will be 2-3 when comes to vote...still TTB side will win but there will be good check and balance

People got piss off ma....whoever successfully be able to get into nomination, be assured that they will receive votes.

In 2023, Loi Chee Foong and Yeoh Eng Kong tried to nominate themselves for a post of BOD but was stopped out. Too pity....I sure will cast my 1 share vote for them.

The board has been sleeping on the job or just no guts to stand up against TTB except day in day out stamp whatever TTB wants

That's why TTB wants a rubber stamp board. Any BOD not handpicked by him considered as hostile

Stock: [ICAP]: ICAPITAL.BIZ BHD

2023-10-25 12:25 | Report Abuse

@Jun😂😂😂😂

Hali ini dalam sejarah. love to buy history book - usually very thick and very cheap - better value than iCAP!

Haha...it was all started with a topic of imaginary enemy. So the fund manager do all kind of things hitting the imaginary enemies but recently is getting too much by dragging sympathizers or grassroot people with dissatisfactions into the muds.

May be because of one of his perceived enemies with past background of doing the major shareholders of closed end funds a favor. Those major shareholders with almost like 40%++ ownership with shitty performance. They were too embarrassed to close down the funds by admitting their shitty performance problem that reflected in persistent discounts.

Give you one of the examples : Amanah Millenias Closed End Fund.

Even our beloved fund managed was quoted by newspaper in year 2007.

"Capital Dynamics' Tan described the winding-up as “not surprising” and expected. The fund’s net asset value had gained some 9% since its inception but was said to remain unattractive when compared with fixed deposit rates. "

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2007/07/03/impact-of-amanah-millenias-windingup-minimal

So they voluntary closed down the fund as requested by shareholders with heaps of relieves, losing a bit of fees but big face saving.

Since then, the fund manager suffered hallucinations of "Brutus" to live freely, without collecting a single sen of rental", in his minds. Perhaps COL entrance with 12% ownerships in 2012 wanted to elect some directors of their own, it is very normal for any public company to do that anyway. After the big drama and like small kids screaming, throwing tantrum, threatening to resign - COL did nothing to him. He leave him alone to choose all his directors for the past 10-11 years.

@dumbMoney went back to help him to do a therapy at no charge, why he got this sickness by going back reading iCAP constitution and found out it is take over proof and the fund manager position is unshakeable.

reproduced @dumbMoney post now >>>>>>
The constitution is custom tailored, from the way the clauses are drafted. If iCap is no longer managed by CDAM, it can no longer use the name iCap, as the IP rights belong to CDAM. How many investors take the trouble to go through the constitution to read the fine print before investing? I didn't until now because of the foreign shareholdings limit issue. Interesting reading on corporate control.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Then i3lurker added this comment, IP is not that great because

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
iCap is lousy name extreme bad feng shui so TTB is welcome to take it back.

iCap means income is Capped, you will make small money only.
>>>>>>>>>>>

😂😂😂

Sekian Terima Kasih.

I re-post my previous comments on Brutus theory how TTB ran his campaigns of iCAP was under siege from all sides and wanted to close down fund and someone wanted to do hostile take over and painted COL was increasingly hostile towards iCAP.....but those who did the CSI themselves, if you find the truths, the truths will set you free....you will stop clapping hands in AGM.

Stock: [ICAP]: ICAPITAL.BIZ BHD

2023-10-25 21:49 | Report Abuse

‘Not a hostile takeover’

PETALING JAYA: iCapital.biz Bhd shareholder Lo Kok Kee maintains that he is not a nominee of European hedge fund Laxey Partners and that he is acting as a “minority shareholder rights activist”. He also refuted allegations that he was part of a hostile takeover of iCapital.biz.

In an email to StarBiz, Lo said: “I am not a nominee of Laxey. I was nominated by a shareholder of the company to stand as director, not by Laxey.”

To recap, Lo was one of three new directors seeking a board representation on iCapital.biz a move which has riled its investment adviser, Tan Teng Boo.

Lo also said that StarBiz report on Nov 6 entitled “Hostile takeover?” was “misleading”, “scare-mongering” and created uncertainty in iCapital.biz share price.

He sent to StarBiz a copy of a letter from Laxey to the board of directors of iCapital.biz dated June this year, in which a request was put forward for two resolutions to be presented at the company's forthcoming AGM. (These resolutions are different from the latest resolutions put forward by Laxey in which Lo, Andrew Pegge the founder of Laxey and one Low Nyap Heng, are seeking to be made board members of iCapital.biz.)

The first resolution (from the letter) was for Pegge to be appointed as a non-independent non-executive director of iCapital.biz and the second was for the board to bring forth proposals designed to narrow the price discount to iCapital.biz's net asset value.

“This was a perfectly legitimate request from a shareholder, but it was ignored by the board of directors for reasons best known to them. Is this a hostile takeover of the company with only one director proposed?” Lo questioned.



Lo also clarified that he had no special arrangement with Laxey in relation to SGX-listed closed-end fund United International Securities (UIS). StarBiz had reported that Lo, together, with Laxey had embarked on a similar takeover move on this company last year.

“For the record, I had acquired my shares in UIS when my original investment in Overseas Union Securities (OUS) was converted into UIS shares after their merger, long before Laxey Partners came into the scene. In 1990, I had independently proposed moves to reduce the price discount of OUS, so there was no scheme or conspiracy with Laxey as you have implied.

“I was merely invited by Laxey last year to stand for election as an independent non-executive director, to represent the interests of minority shareholders, of which I am one myself, and not as a Laxey nominee.”

Lo also said that he had held the UIS shares for more than 10 years. “Would that still make me a one night stander,” he questioned, in reference to allegations that he would be taking only a short-term position in iCapital.biz.

Similarly, Lo said he was not in cohorts with Laxey with regard to action taken at two other funds in Malaysia, namely the Amanah Millenia Fund and the Amanah Harta Tanah PNB2 (AHP2).

He sent to StarBiz a notice of the EGM of Amanah Millenia Fund in 2007, which called for members' voluntary liquidation of the fund. “None of us moved the said resolution and shareholders merely exercised their rights to vote on the resolution.

“If this was a coordinated effort between myself and Laxey, then one would have to include all the other shareholders who voted in favour of the resolution too. The allegation is without basis, as I did not even vote for the resolution. In fact, I did not attend the EGM as I didn't think my vote would be necessary.”

Lo pointed out that for AHP2, Laxey was not part of the requisitionists for the EGM that sought to liquidate the fund, nor was it a significant unit-holder of the fund.

Lo, 66, was a director and shareholder of OSK & Partners Sdn Bhd, the predecessor of OSK Investment Bank Bhd, the iCapital.biz AGM notice showed.

He had also held managerial positions in MBF Corp Bhd and Malaysian International Merchant Bank Bhd and was a research officer at Kumpulan Guthrie Sdn Bhd. He is currently a director of the Esquire Kitchen group of companies. Lo owns 22,500 shares in iCapital.biz, according to the notice.

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2012/11/09/not-a-hostile-takeover/

Stock: [ICAP]: ICAPITAL.BIZ BHD

2023-10-26 20:17 | Report Abuse

I need wrap up the "Brutus" Conspiracy theory and moving on to other things.

I went back to 2012 AGM Meeting Minutes

https://disclosure.bursamalaysia.com/FileAccess/apbursaweb/download/?name=EA_GM_Attachments&id=6053

Numbers don't lies. It is super easy understand why such a small issue had been blown out of proportions - Making a big mountain out of a small molehill.

There were 8 nominees - 5 seeking re-elections and 3 new nominees. Here were the results:

1 Datuk Ng Peng Hong @ Ng Peng Hay(Re-election)
For/% 80,795,355 / 95.88%
Against/% 3,473,000 / 4.12%
Total 84,268,355

2 Dato’ Dr. Norraesah Binti Mohamad(Re-election)
For/% 82,907,654 / 98.36%
Against/% 1,380,401 / 1.64%
Total 84,288,055

3 Tunku Abdul Aziz Bin Tunku Ibrahim(Re-election)
For/% 79,027,655 / 96.88%
Against/% 2,546,200 / 3.12%
Total 81,573,855

4 YM Tunku Tan Sri Dato’ Seri Ahmad Bin Tunku Yahaya(Re-election)
For/% 73,674,455 / 87.85%
Against/% 10,188,400 / 12.15%
Total 83,862,855

5 Tan Ang Meng(Relection)
For/% 74,203,705 / 87.48%
Against/% 10,615,150 / 12.52%
Total 84,818,855

6 Andrew Pegge(Laxey Partner) ** NEW**
For/% 11,347,951 / 13.44%
Against/% 73,110,804 / 86.56%
Total 84,458,755

7 Lo Kok Kee(iCAP Member nomination) **NEW**
For/% 10,637,601 / 12.63%
Against/% 73,606,654 / 87.37%
Total 84,244,255

8 Low Nyap Heng(COL) ** NEW **
For/% 11,138,951 / 13.2%
Against/% 73,122,204 / 86.8%
Total 84,261,155

At that point of time, Laxey has about 9.6 million shares and COL has 9.3 million shares.

If it is true that COL+ Laxey joint hands, you will see at least 18.9 million shares(9.6+9.3 million-kingdee math) for COL and Laxey each. On the contrary, COL had only 11.1 million and Laxey 11.3 million. That means they gi gi ku gi gi(teow chew lang saying) – each take care of themselves. It is totally untrue when I read another report in the news paper that Laxey asked people to vote for all 3 of them. Numbers said otherwise, you know who is telling the truth!

2. COL, Laxey and Lo were extremely professional, for those qualified directors, they voted for them. That is why you can see 97- 98%. If all 3 of them voted against, you will have to subtract 30+millions resulted they received only about 70%.

3. There were 2 directors that seeking reelection received 12% against votes, this must be either 1 of the 3 parties voted against them. Rumors had it, COL objected one of the directors age was above 70 years old that need special resolutions. Despite that the director received > 75% approval. Hence re-elected. This riled the fund manager as reported by the Star.

Looking purely on the "facts", I don't think it fit the theory of sacking all the BODs that seeking re-election and installed new directors, took over the company and liquidate them. It is total UNTRUE! I am not smart but definite not a PAK CHEE kia.

I rest my case and do not think I need to waste time to dwell in this topic. It is incurable if the Brutus conspiracy magic spells created by the fund manager still bonding you.

By looking into today's share price, people believe is more convinced that liquidation is out of the questions and taking some money off the table. Whoever want to stay, it is only betting on the fund manager will perform or perhaps still hanging on a small hope of improved governance. This could be his last chance. Don't screw it up!
Stock

@Patient Investor - noted your advice re IF you want to sell......

Good that you do your independent research now :)

I have commented re the AGM in 2012 results....

iCAP got the SC's nod re dual listing - till today I was not sure TTB was jumping the gun and acted beyond his responsibility when applying to SC....there was no doubt on SC approval but did he got shareholders' approval in the first place? In this case, I am not sure whether SC was mis-led or SC was careless of not vetting all the documents in place for the approval

TTB has been treat iCAP like his own father's company does as it pleases and his die hard fans will support whatever he does, clapping hands in AGM worship him like a god stock.

@dumbMoney - the 6.6 million was incurred for many years. I think those expenses were incurred by CDAM from 2013(?) till 2019 but never reported in any of QR or AR....it was a shocked in year 2020 iCAP got a bill from CDAM and caused it had a loss

Did shareholders voted okay for dual listing? I don't think there was such resolution

These comments were made based on Annual Report, unless the fund manager surprises us by taking profits from his old favorites, cut losers and pour money in the new stock selections....the NAV is going to be around same 3.6 +/- 5% for at least for the next 6 without the black swan of the court case. I have been very reluctant to express opinions on specific stock performance because I worried to be cursed by people.....either to buy and to sell, you decide after you have heard all the hear and say, here and there. As for me, I am looking to exit till have zero share on iCAP but will still be ranting here....someday when I see 40% discount again, I may load up 1 share again😂😂

For many things we don't agree to certain extend, selling is one thing I will agree with him

Patient Investor is asking you sell as he sees COL is a risk.....knowing he is a die hard fan of iCAP, the sell is never -- All the best to him.

I see very limited upside in iCap in the near term, Capital A share price unlikely to recover in a short time, KGB already all time high unless you aiming at $3, Padini quarterly results have been very weak share price is sliding down, Sam Equipment had a huge correction from $ 6, how long will it take to hit its all time high again?

In the unlikely event of iCAP loses its defense, even without a court order, investors will scurrying for covers in panic selling. Unless you really believe till the end, the sell is never, you can continue to stick through thick and thin with the fund manager.

"Both our operating and investment experience cause us to conclude that turnarounds seldom turn," Buffett wrote in 1979, "and that the same energies and talent are much better employed in a good business purchased at a fair price than in a poor business purchased at a bargain price."

But as a value investor, not being greedy or fearful, sometimes also can kena shark bait thinking it's too cheap kena swallow alive. 😂😂

@Sslee
>>>>>
I already learned my lesson to just walk away.
>>>>>

😂😂

Greed and fear are the only two devils that I know in the stock market.... No matter how many warning shots being fired... When they think there is money to be made... They will ignore you without thinking rationally...

dumbMoney pointed out in various cases in Singapore and Msia of CEF liquidation was initiated by the major controlling stakeholders. In those cases the major controlling parties were the banks or managers that running the fund themselves. Patient Investor also pointed out cases of aggressive hedge fund activists were closing down the CEFs.

The timing of Patient Investor re-appearance is quite interesting also. I thought he said it's dumbMoney one man ranting here....he will only come back to check on us in next AGM.....but it's coincides after the first hearing of 20% foreign limit SICDA tinge.....bad sign of iCAP losing the case....now expressing the worries COL will continue to buy towards 33% or even more 50% or 75%????

@SSLee, buy 1 share and attend iCAP AGM to help us witnessing the environment whether COL is as hostile as alleged....😂😂

I think it is better that I clarified on my previous post

>>>>>>
FastMoney666

Why don't sell? In a bull market ma, sell iCap put money in Insas and JTiasa also okay ma....why dumb dumb sitting on dead money?

8 hours ago
>>>>>>>

This was a cheeky post while there are "truths" these counters undervalued somewhat but it is also subjected to sentiments - if people like it, they will keep chasing especially even the Edge Tong's portfolio sold Maybank position and switched to Insas -WC at 0.42. This is an aggressive move and performed by a very advanced player.

When they think the affair it's over, price can come down rapidly. This what I am referring advanced player as the person is also able to control their emotion extreme well and very well discipline when it's time to exit.

My only point is people do have a choice.....when they exit they do have a lot of other reasons. Either they see undervalued propositions in other counters or simply need cash.....or may be they see limited upside in the near term iCap.

Why don't sell? In a bull market ma, sell iCap put money in Insas and JTiasa also okay ma....why dumb dumb sitting on dead money?

So I won't be so stugid to shoot myself in the foot by bad mouthing iCAP. I wish iCap doing well but really cannot tahan TTB only. 😂😂

The only period was truly unusual was when iCap was selling at 40% discounts.....cash/share was nearly $ 2 when iCap was selling at market price between 1.7++ - 2.2.....that was the period attracted my return to own 1 share but now have sold out some, left with only 0.5 share 😂😂

21% -24% discount still.....as expected when people pricing in 4% dividend(1% base + another 3% from discount between NAV and market price).

New investor needs to know their return expectations should be from market price to market price and should not be from market price to NAV.

Even REITs, majority of them are selling at a discount with exceptions on a few like IGB Reit....even one of best located REITs like KLCC is only trading at book value.

All these are not good to attract new retail investors as you said. TTB don't need to put down on others to elevate himself to attract new retail investors.

It's quite sad also to see TTB is dragging other alma mater into the fight.....when you go out and fight you won't dragging other people's family into the fight, don't we?

*not good

@Patient Investor though you questions were directed to dumbMoney....my view is this......cease fire. When TTB keep publishing his newsletter calling other as running dogs, wreckers..surely people will need to reply to that. During these exchanges you already know it's good for iCap reputation especially we rebutted with many credible points.

@dumbMoney....too bad when you speak up on COL has been taken by TTB personally. Even I speak up because when things are not right.

*forgot it's 2024 ady.....this year was referring to year 2023

@dumbMoney -- this is also why TTB thinks you are dangerous. He care less people like me or others, we can bark but can't bite. He worries you might bite him, that's why lo, merely just by your presence, he shrivels.....and pointing the gun at you. He will intimidate, discredit, associate you with gweilo, etc.......poor dumbMoney but I think he messes with a wrong guy. You have left him alone even silent up to AGM this year yet....he still won't reciprocate and won't leave you in peace. 😂😂

Of all the B schools in the world, why TTB said no need to go to University of Chicago, just come to work in CDAM... Better than the best 😂😂

@Patient Investor....first, from the way you reply and participate, I am comforted you are not someone from iCap. We will then can have meaningful discussions.

COL like dumbMoney said kena shark bait.....

They just get caught between a hard place and a rock.......with such a big position - 4 possible strategies of COL exit

1. Buying nearer to NAV(3.6) then exit -- this strategy will be tough because the moment the market participants see they exit, all will rush out at the same time, price will fall....back to square one.

2. Continue to buy and hold patiently while NAV to grow.......say to 10, even exit at 8, based on the entry price they have, they will still make a decent profit

3. Buy till 33%, trigger the MGO but then with a large base of loyal fans of TTB, not many will accept. So COL will get stuck.

4. COL to buy till >75% then we can talk about removing TTB or fund liquidation.

In my mind, we can let COL do whatever they want to do and there is no need for TTB to demonising COL. That's all I was trying to say. COL makes or losses money doesn't concern me.

Ya. if Jaya Tiasa can benchmark other counters that with payout ratio > 90% there will be high possibility of valuation expansion to re-rating to 10X.

United Plantation
PE 11.5, DY 9.2%, Payout ratio 106%

Ta Ann
PE 10, DY 9.6%, Payout ratio 94%


KMLoong
PE 13, DY 7.6%, Payout ratio = 106%

Jaya Tiasa
PE = 6, DY 3%, Payout ratio 17%

If payout ratio can be raised to 90%, Dividend/share = 0.16, Assume DY 10% --> share price = 1.6 but if this trigger re-rating to 10X your call of surpassing 2.7 is not impossible.

Patience is needed though as works need to be done by the management to raise the dividend payout ratio.

May not be a disaster but certainly I have my doubt on his claim of LOW RISK, High Return.

Another stock, Parkson at one time has about RM 50 million in iCap portfolio but he saw it dwindled to decline to a level of permanent capital loss.

Back to Capital A tinge, iCap invested at cost of RM 32 million and estimated value as of last Friday RM 28 million, a paper loess of 4 million. Assuming it burnt down to zero, impact on NAV is $ 0.228, potential impact is 6% to NAV.