Usual tactics will follow, roadshow, online, soon each shareholder will receive phone calls... Who has the advantage????

For those have been sown with hatred speech... Please wake up. Also those who are buying recently betting the fund will close down, you will be disappointed. After AGM, iCap will still in one piece, perfectly in tact.

Actually no one here ever mentioned about winding up icapital. This is the chance of closing a fund if based on the persistent discounts
Discounts/Chance
10% Zero chance
11-20% 10% success rate chance
21-30 20-25% success rate chance
31-40% 30-40% chance
41-50% 50-50%
51-60% 60-70%
> 60% basket case... Days are numbered

iCAP people. Please check your reports.

CDAM(shareholder 22?)/CD Sdn Bhd(shareholder 30?) reported in 2023 Annual Report(page 59) as at 23/8/2023, they have (1,161,500+937,900) = 2,099,400 shares.

Then on 1/9/2023 made announcement for intention to deal during closed period.

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company_announcement/announcement_details?ann_id=3382528

The company declared it has 2,993,100 shares. That is an increase of 893,700 shares.

Including of 23/8/2023 and 1/9/2023, total trading days = 7, total volume in the market was 403,300 shares. CDAM/CD S/B and etc so geng, they can buy more than total market volume. Give you a helping hand: COL bought 132,000 shares on 28/8/2023. So I don’t how iCAP or CDAM can give birth to additional so many shares.

Suspected either got recording errors or under-declare, correct it before AGM to save yourself some embarrassments.

Take it as a compliment. Thanks. The 3 of you, can't argue on logics. Upgrade to next level. Personal attack. Welcome.

While got stuck in the airports due flight delayed, I finally can study @dumbMoney post quietly. You have done a great job in proposing various scenarios how shareholder value can be enhanced. The 4% dividend payout in different forms also taken consideration of equivalent to iCAP proposed in their innovative dividend model that essentially pricing in a perpetual 24% discounts to NAV. You have remained very neutral to consider all options unlike the fund manager doing only a hard sell of 1 Choice and 1 Cake. 😂😂

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
These are my computations under various assumptions and alternatives Paying dividends either in cash or shares have no effect on shareholders' wealth, but a SBB increases the NAV of the remaining shares, depending on the amount of SBB and the price discount. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y8sacaao3nejubp1owmor/iCap-dividend-policy-alternatives.xls?rlkey=nf1d2ldsdu5m6cuq5m38nj2lq&dl=0

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have expanded your thoughts to apply on iCAP PUT by looking into a bear market scenario. This is a scenario of 1 bear market, 1 year and not all the years. Hopefully nobody twists this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Outstanding shares 140,000,000

Assuming NAV @ 11/10/23 $3.54, Total NAV = 495,000,000

Share price $ 2.69 (Discount = 24%)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Assuming during a big crisis, iCAP NAV fell by 20%
Bear market NAV = $ 2.83
Discounts got worst, 40%, Share price = $ 1.42
Use budgeted $ 15,000,000 to do iCAP PUT, purchase 10,563,380(almost 7.5% share buy back)
Outstanding shares = 129,436,620

When market went back to normal at NAV 3.54, Total NAV = 480,000,000(going back to same baseline comparison)

Per share NAV after SBB = $ 3.71

At same 24% discount, project share price = $ 2.82

Price increase of 4.8% (2.82-2.69/2.69)

This why iCAP PUT is a no brainer and essentially what WB is doing. He doesn’t put SBB on automatic, some year he bought back a lot, and some year almost not buying back anything.

https://ycharts.com/companies/BRK.A/stock_buyback

PS. There is no need to talk about reduced management fees due to lower NAV because the fund manager has already proposed dividend, same amount of cash RM 15,000,000 will be deducted anyway.

Mathematically it makes so much sense to me. I hope stakeholders will stay rational to do the right things.

The fund manager will organize an online talk today at 12 pm, today.

The title is : HOW TO HAVE YOUR CAKE AND STILL EAT IT?

Good! except the fund manager forgot to ask, which cake?

CAKE A: DIVIDEND + CAPITAL APPRECIATION

CAKE B: DIVIDEND+CAPTIAL APPRECIATION+ICAP PUT(SBB WHEN IT IS A SCREAMING BUY)


"BETTER IS THE ENEMY OF GOOD" VOLTAIRE

Gone fishing...catch up later.

Too bad we can only talk about this and for sure we don't have the money to go to court enforce it🤐

My beloved fund manager always preach "seek truth from facts" by quoting chairman Mao

OIC, at first I suspected you are from COL😂😂 Clear to me now

This adding a very interesting twist to the plot. No wonder he will resist the SBB till the end. Treasury shares can't vote.

If true, this is a shrewd plan, increased control, taking fees from both sides perhaps even fixing some discounts issues but terrible governance. 😎

It's very difficult to get this information from the annual report...

Perhaps this is the plan engineered by the fund manager that can sent the share price soaring and tighten his grips when comes to proxy fights. All the proxy will be his. Rumors: CDAM, Tunku Sara plus his discretionary accounts already exceeded 5%.

Haha... 😝

If you happen to see Mr Tan, send my regards to him. 😊

I am requesting the fund manager do not treat ICAP as an adopted son and favored his another beloved son.

They knew exactly it's a screaming buy and they bought on behalf of private clients but refused to buy on behalf of shareholders.

I will show you since 2008, CDAM timed it perfectly and buy some shares of iCAP

2012 is the year that many shareholders starts to get trapped and cannot exit due to perpetual discounts or exit by giving up the hope share price and NAV at 30-40% discount. and the fund manager keep blaming COL.. Even a guy get to buy at lower price like Kukubird got frustrated... Many are like him. Manager get to collect fees for the past so many years and don't feel pain. This the reason of starting point of 2012. I am hoping to hear the word sorry, I feel your pain.

I am hope there will be people bring this up during AGM

Even they do drip, shareholders missed the period of 2/share.

They are buying for private clients knowing its below intrinsic value yet refused to accept mandate from shareholders to do SBB.

Found additional information about CDAM.

https://www.cdam.biz/board-of-directors/

1. Tan Teng Boo. MD of CDAM
2. Dr. Tunku Sara Binti Tunku Ahmad Yahya. She has 2.6 million shares in iCap
3. Tan Yuen-Lin. He is the son of TTB
4. Tan Mun Ling. Executive Director and Fund Manager.

TTB has direct interest of 65,000 shares and 2.9 million indirect interest via Capital Dynamics Asset Management Sdn. Bhd., Capital Dynamics Global Private Limited, Capital Dynamics Sdn. Bhd. and his sister-in-law, Fong San Lai pursuant to Section 8(4) of the Companies Act 2016 (the Act).

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company_announcement/announcement_details?ann_id=3389629

They have been actively buying shares including for private clients but refused to accept mandate to do SBB on behalf of iCAP shareholders. Why? Open to all for comments.

I have some questions to ask if someone is holding shares under nominee account of a stock broker or CDAM. Are they a member of a company? Can they vote in the coming AGM?

****Correction*** To be fair to the fund manager, I should add back RM 28 million on the dividend declared in year 2021, hence the incremental value created = RM 84 million + RM 28 million = RM 112 million for the RM 78 million fees received. Fair is fair. My apology for the oversight.

Throughout the period as a shareholder, when I received iCAP annual report, it will left unopened. After a while, it would go into rubbish bin. Simple, I trust the fund manager, no need to read them. Recently, I begin to read the again because I felt there are some truths in what people complaints. Fees for example, many talked about %, too abstract. But I was shocked to find out in real money, shareholders paid about RM $ 78 million fees while market cap increase about RM 80 million. Being generous inclusive of 4% share price jumped today. All the answer we get is I am a victim, blame the penjajah kulit putih.......shareholders would expect a minimum of apology. It looks like more and more like the old government masking the performance issue with 3Rs issue.

Year ***Fund Management Fee*** Investment advisory Fee***Total
2012****2,894,863 **** 2,894,863 **** 5,789,726
2013**** 3,089,891 *********** 3,089,891********** 6,179,782
2014**** 3,109,491******** 3,109,491*********** 6,218,982
2015**** 3,187,354******** 3,187,354********** 6,374,708
2016**** 3,075,342******* 3,075,342 ********** 6,150,684
2017***** 3,263,523****** 3,263,523********** 6,527,046
2018***** 3,592,787****** 3,592,787 ******** 7,185,574
2019***** 3,596,061****** 3,596,061******* 7,192,122
2020***** 3,329,391****** 3,329,391****** 6,658,782
2021***** 3,033,182****** 3,033,182***** 6,066,364
2022***** 3,562,242****** 3,562,242****** 7,124,484
2023***** 3,455,641****** 3,455,641****** 6,911,282
Total 78,379,536

Market Cap 2012 308,000,000
Market Cap 2023 392,000,000
Change 84,000,000

I am merely a normal novice investor, explain to all why 2 lines? Please do not pass the bucks to me

I have reasons to believe the numbers are getting higher than this, accumulating more after 23/08/23...Let's wait for 1 more year and see.

Why 2 lines?

Annual Report 2023, page 59
22. CAPITAL DYNAMICS ASSET MANAGEMENT SDN BHD 1,161,500
30. CAPITAL DYNAMICS ASSET MANAGEMENT SDN BHD 937,900

I smell rats, they have something to hide.

Your fund manager company CDAM accumulated 1.4 millions shares..or 1.4% control now.

2023 Annual Report page 36

TAN MUN LIN
• Non-Independent Non–Executive Director
• Member of the Nomination Committee (“NC”)
• Aged 36, Malaysian, Female
Ms Tan Mun Lin was appointed to your Board of Directors
on 11 January 2021. She holds the Capital Markets Services
Representative Licence issued by the Securities Commission
of Malaysia (SC) and is licensed as a representative by the
Securities and Futures Commission of Hong Kong (SFC), both
for the regulated activity of fund management.

Ms Tan is a fund manager and Executive Director of Capital
Dynamics Asset Management Sdn Bhd. She also serves as
the deputy group CEO of Capital Dynamics, an investment
advisory and fund management group licensed by the SC, the
Monetary Authority of Singapore, the Australian Securities and
Investments Commission and the SFC.

Ms Tan has more than 14 years of experience in the
regulated investment advisory and fund management
industry. She possesses extensive experience in local and
global investment research and analysis, legal, regulatory
& compliance, marketing/business development, HR,
operations, strategy and management.
Ms Tan started her career in Capital Dynamics as Executive
Assistant to CEO (Investment Research) in September 2009.
She graduated with Bachelor of Commerce and Bachelor of
Laws from the University of Sydney in 2009.

Ms Tan Mun Lin has no family relationship with any director or
major shareholder of your Fund nor has any possible conflict
of interest with your Fund save as disclosed that she is also
the Executive Director of your Fund Manager. She has not
been convicted of any offence (other than traffic offence, if
any) within the past five (5) years nor any public sanctions
or penalty imposed by relevant regulatory bodies during
the financial year. She attended six (6) Board of Directors’
Meetings held in the financial year ended 31 May 2023.

Also been warned that I am a wanted man, can appear on a big presentation screen as public enemy #1. Don't appear.

Is the board really independent?

That control has been a talk of the town when I pointed Tan Mun Ling is someone is working in CDAM. I need to go through the annual report and see.. Whoever has more information, please share.

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”
― Abraham Lincoln

I will be away for a business trip....I won't be able to participate for a while......see you all a bit later.

The fund manager is an expert to determine when iCAP is way below its intrinsic value. Trust me, he will know it. He knows something look like a duck quack like a duck(iCAP is way below its intrinsic value). He invested on behalf of his clients CDAM and even director knows it, they stepped in to buy. I am merely pointing out iCAP PUT is a missing tool in the tool box. They are proposing dividend to be included in the tool box, I am fine with that except I don't support DRIP should be issued at a discounts, it is unfair to those accepted Cash dividend. It is a reward for those opt for DRIP but a punishment to Cash dividend holders. We know a lot of small holders will go for cash dividend because their holding is so small have a meaningful DRIP. It's equity logic here and I know between money and equity, in the proxy war, equity will be flushed out. I only bet on conscience and hopefully we have more people with conscience.

Many of iCAP followers follow the arguments that SBB will narrow or make discounts disappears in the past....I was away from iCAP for 10 years....I didn't have this historical baggage. I think we should erased this. SBB is innocent. Look at afresh again....

A rational fund manager will produce rational results....I felt he got a little past traumatic experience. Start afresh, aim for 1.5 market cap. Everybody wins. Please include the missing iCAP PUT tool, you don't have to use....just in case.

There is no denial that some companies abuse SBB that to a point we can argue it is a moral hazard. Top Glove for example, it has been goreng to a bubble level. When the bubble burst, the first thing the company did was to do SBB. ridiculous....they should not. In fact the minority shareholders should revolt. Call for an EGM, take the SBB away from them.

the fund manager should not be afraid of fees of which I think he rich enough not to be bothered. He is also capable to grow market cap to from current 300++ million cap to 1.5 billion. You do the math how much will he gets when it reach 1.5 billion. I am okay if keep 1.5% management fees because he help shareholders create almost 1.3 billion wealth.

@patient investor...Like you, if you followed my sparring sessions with @dumbMoney, I argued with him from the beginning that if iCAP buy back share, it will reduce the outstanding. And that will support the evil COL.

I even argued to the extreme that if iCAP used up all the $ 130 millions, it will help the evil COL trigger MGO, mandatory general offer.

That is only true when shares bought to cancel it but if is it distributed to shareholders, it will go back to original outstanding.

Illustration, there is 140 million shares outstanding, iCAP buys back 1 million share(at times of crisis) and keep it as treasury shares, if you use it to cancel yes, it will be reduced to 139 million shares but if you distribute this 1 million to shareholders, then it will go back to original 140 million. How dumb was I, making such a fundamental mistake.

Public Enemy No 1? 😱

That's why I write the logics and hoping accidentally got masters with Mustang horsepower brains read it, pick it up and x tahan and help to speak on their behalf of those can't. Yesterday I said minority interest shareholder should help themselves ..... dream on... they can't.

Have you ever see a peasat dare to speak loudly to a master? They only bow silently. 😔

TBH, If you have seen my earlier posts carefully, I am not against dividend plan. What is left out is another tool in the tool box that is SBB. We can declare dividend when the market function normally. Just like recent pullback, we should not buy back all. Declare dividend. But if there is sudden loss of confidence like dropping 15% in a week and that is 30-40% below NAV, we should do buy back. When it went up back to 20% and stabilizing, leave it alone. Like I said we are not interested to buy until zero discounts.

We also being poisoned because we equate SBB=COL. COL= Evil, therefore we automatically think SBB = evil. No mater how unhappy we are with COL, we should separate it as 2 issues. SBB is innocent.

My this morning post is saying even director or CDAM see iCAP is way below its intrinsic value and buy. I thank them. Give credit when credit is due.

In the past the issue, iCAP retain all the cash and let it compound. Therefore, SBB should not be considered. Now is different, iCAP is okay to allocate a fixed sum of cash to return to owners. Those smart owners will choose cash because they think we can manage their emotion and use it to buy in case share price below ex-dividend. But majority can't. People like you is probably is an above average skill investor. You can, other can't. I speak behalf on others that can't.

I am not interested in day to day price fluctuations or personal gains or losses. It's the governance issue. Also offer different perspective so that we don't follow blindly. This is the reason I appear in this forum.

I wan to guarantee you that if I put forward a motion, I will be voted down in AGM but it's okay. Let the voice be heard.

@Patient Investor. Have you been to the previous AGMs? Can you share your experience with me?

Hats off to those who speak their minds. At least they have a mind of their own. You speak out what you believe. SBB was not given a chance to be debated.....

Choice A - innovative dividend
Choice B - refer to choice A

Not happy get out!

😎😂😂

iCAP PUT is not innovative and I just borrow from a lesson learnt from the Federal Reserves(Fed) will make the market to believe they, the Fed, will intervene in times of the crisis of confidence. Many of us would have heard of Greenspan PUT or Ben Bernanke’s dropping free money from the helicopter during QE eras.

“Greenspan put was the moniker given to the policies implemented by Alan Greenspan during his tenure as Federal Reserve (Fed) Chair. The Greenspan-led Fed was extremely proactive in halting excessive stock market declines, acting as a form of insurance against losses, similar to a regular put option.”

Find out more from this link: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greenspanput.asp

The key word is EXCESSIVE or the word that I have been using IRRATIONAL DISCOUNTS.

For those who understood iCAP PUT immediately, you must have been in the financial markets at least 20 years and you are very likely more than 40 years old. I heard iCAP demographic is consists of a big % of people over 50 years old. So, your instinct will tell you it’s a no brainer.

Your fund director and other fund manage by iCAP fund manager implemented that too sub-consciously. Ms. Tan Mun Lin has shown solidarity by buying 25,000 shares and Capital Dynamics asset management supplied liquidity with the purchase 937,900 shares during iCAP lost decade. And I thank you for these efforts. Those exit at the time when they were taking shares off your hands at the times your desperately wanting to exit at any price, you must thank them. (see shares the bought in page 58 and 59 of iCAP’s 2023 Annual Report)

Your good actions are telling us we are on the same page and on the same side of a coin.

If we the shareholders asking the same that you buy on our behalf with a pre-approved RM 15 million/year, can you do that for us? Please🙏🙏🙏 . Are we asking for too much?

I will buy some Coke, chips and re-watch THE BIG SHORT tonight. Have a nice weekend.

👌. Choose wisely.😉

I hope iCAP will not trap into it's heavy historical baggage and should avoid xenophobia....I pray for healing but it takes two to tango. we shall see.

Meanwhile, for the rest of the shareholders, in my humble opinion.

"God will help who help themselves" 1 vote 1 voice. Let your voice to be heard. Do you want iCAP PUT?

Share buy back -- iCAP PUT. Standing solidarity with shareholders.

If all the 3,000+ shareholders are buy-and-hold forever type, discounts don’t matter. Any form of discounts – irrational or rational don’t matter.
If you are in this bucket, congratulations! You have achieved ABSOLUTE financial freedom. You are in the top 1% or even top 0.1% income group in the country. You are flushed with cash. Zero headache on discounts, you will worry more on where to invest next or how to spend them or perhaps figure out how to write a good will to avoid estate fight after your departure.
Unfortunately, 99% or 99.9% of people have a possibility to exit due to many reasons. If these people need to exit and luck is not on their side during a bear market, demand for shares will fall. Adding salt to the wound, all wanted to rush out the same door at the same time, this will add a lot of supply to the market. Demand is falling and big supply is coming, Kaboom, we have a perfect storm – very irrational discounts will spring to life. If iCAP has a share buy back program and do intervention consistently, the market will know there is an iCAP put. You draw a line in the sand.
They will hold back or slowing down their selling. The losses on iCAP shareholders who exited will be lesser. There could be 5% lesser or even 10% lesser losses….anyone with 5,000 shares, will save them a few hundred to a thousand ringgit lesser losses. I can say, it’s also a form of standing solidarity with iCAP shareholders. Those did not sell has shown solidarity will be rewarded back later. When the market recover, when treasury shares distributed as share dividend. Good karma.