scolding, scolding and finally iCAP announced they will convene an EGM to get shareholders to approve DRIP on 29 Dec 2023....don't think anyone will oppose, just a formality.

iCAP will stick to it's gun that those participate in DRIP may get a discount. Any shrewd shareholder will first sign on to the program, when receive the additional shares, sell it in the open market, can get more cash.

Using below illustration, if you don't participate in DRIP, you get 1,000 cash dividend
Qty of shares 10,000
Price 2.7
Dividend 0.1
Cash Dividend 1,000

If you participate in DRIP you get to buy 411.52 shares with $1,000 at 10% discount to 2.70 (in actual iCap will use average 5 trading days price)
QTY @ 10% discount 411.52
Ex-dividend 2.6
Sell 411.62 shares from DRIP $1,069.96

Additional dividend of 7% or 70 Ringgit more compare to cash dividend.

With people selling/cashing out, will this widen the discount or narrowing the discount to NAV?

After quiet for 3 weeks, no matter how quiet are his critics, JohnDough is going to continue to post angkat bakul article. So sad!

Just a couple of quick happenings update - COL tested the water by buying some small amount of shares. iCAP reaction was pending court case outcome, all shareholders can participate in DRIP. Still talking about DRIP tinge with no concrete outcome on dividend implementation date.

My condolences to all long time shareholders 😓

So dropping earnings, dilutive ROE, increased borrowing, increased working capital, declining dividend got people so upset. Those without any position is not affected buy those bought at higher price suddenly suffered capital loss with lesser dividend 🤕😫

The trouble begin when they injected HR Owen UK into Sports Toto, built RM100 million showroom, increased borrowing to stock up super cars by up to 500 mln. So it changed completely on the Sports Toto that we know in the past 30+ years. It was started I think around 1985. In the past it was like 3 billion revenue and now with the supercar car dealer another 3 billion but only earning 2%, this surely will dilute ROE. One way to look at it is building the second earning engine, hence they need to retain more of its earning. The past dividend easily 0.20/share paying out all from the earnings but now 0.09/share on 0.16 on EPS.

My apology... Missed out the earnings.. Earnings just improved followed by 80% payout... But of course if earnings can go up a lot more, even at 60% payout, share price will move upwardly.. Paiseh.. Hopefully didn't disgrace your sifu yeah🙏🙏🙏

Back to Sports Toto, if we want to see RM 2 again, Sports Toto needs to go back to 80% payout ratio or at least RM 0.13-0.15/share. This is based on logic of M & M theorem that I have just learnt.

Since iCAP representative Patient Investor said I no longer need the minimum 1 share, even with ZERO share, I still can rant here.🙌

BTW, sorry that I am very lazy to go to other counters. Generally, I will talk all things about "value investing" in this channel. So it is going to be rojak and will contaminate this blog as it will no longer purely on iCap

@RealValueInvestor - well said. 👍✌

My condolences though, you have earned a doggy badge and will be treated as public #1 enemy.

I just gave a suggestion to those dividend yield seeker to look into Sports Toto as the market was smart enough to figure out that the moustache man dragged a cash cow into HR Owen, a supercar dealer, that drained the cash. As a result, the dividend payout ratio from the past 80-100% to only about 60%. ROE from 80-100% to 50-60% and now 20%. HR Owen only a 2% margin business......Obviously the market got upset by repricing the risk, price has been adjusted down to the same past yields. The fundamental of the business has changed but yield has not changed....remains at 6%.

Then I get blasted with the long message.....thinking I am talking down iCAP again.

Dividend? Better to bet on the moustache man Sports Toto lo.....shares fallen to 10 years low from $4+(Year 2013) to $ 1.50 now, whopping 64% drop with 6% dividend yield. Management is very busy doing SBB 😂😂

"bu zhi tau" cox FM like buat x tau

Just a quick one on iCAP 2022 vs 2023. You may need to refer to Annual Report 2023 page 42.

Investment 2023 RM 328 mln vs 2022 283 mln + 45 mln + 16%

But don't be too happy about it because he reduce cash from 164(2022) to 148 mln(2023) - 16 mln

His rough investment increase was only +29 mln or 10%.....

Because of him sitting on 37% cash in 2022, he could only translate roughly about 6+% to overall NAV.

If someone who will never fully invested, say only 70% in investment and 30% cash, he needs 22% on his 70% investment to achieve 15%. To do 22% invested stocks, he will be a true WB.

Next , please refer to page 54 and 55 on his stars and dogs. Portfolio increase roughly + 89 mln

Major stars
Padini + 58 mln
Sam Engineering + 49 mln
Kelington +24 mln

These 3 contributed to unrealized profits of 131 mln.

His dogs
Parkson -20 mln
APM -8 mln
BioAlpha -8 mln

These 3 unrealized losses of -36 mln

Plus realized losses on Boustaed -17 mln, this give total losses of -53 mln

The rest of stocks in the portfolio + or - , just marginal gains la...

His winning/losing rate is about 60/40%

If the FM is still dreaming of achieving 15% CAGR since its inception, based on his conservative of 70% invested, he needs roughly about 31% CAGR on his invested portfolio for the next 18 years. Based on 60/40 win/loss rate, I wish him all the best.

@JunHohohoho - In general you can check in the 2023 Annual Report but after the annual report was issued, we are not sure whether the fund manager sold or buy any stocks. Usually if a fund manager is having extremely low turnover portfolio, you can use his annual report as a guide. You should be able to figure out his quantity and value and substitute with the most recent price if you like to see how close to the reported NAV. In general, when we buy a fund, we will do hands off approach. The logic is the fund manager is better than us, other wise it is pretty dummy of us pay the FM the fees and we do the works.

That was what the FM did, assuming in 2014 the FM was unable to read the tea leaves well, stayed with cash 50-60% since then. Different investors will have different choice in responding to this scenario.

Investor A. She got the message, fund manager was either bearish or unclear of the future and started to liquidate the position at 10,000 shares @ 2.30, keep in FD for 10 years @ 3% --> become 30,910, bought back at $2(40% discounts) = 15,955 shares and valued at last price of 2.69 = 42,919. Gains = 87%

Investor B. Hold it long for the past 10 years growing old together, pledge his loyalty with the FM enjoying his wisdom speeches in AGM, scolding the gweilo, dogs, cats and wreckers year after year. Gains = 17% (2.69-2.3)/2.3*100%.

Return difference between investor A & B = 70%

What was your response?

Not sure how the FM got into thinking the injunction filed by Pop Investments got help by a group of local running stealth dogs. If any, these dogs must be pretty amazing, they read laws that even professional lawyers taken their inputs seriously. The best thing, the judge agreed with them allowing the injunction.

Don't play, play. 😎

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
By allowing the last minute injunction against iCap, the court appears to be aiding and abetting the foreigners, but to protest this will be in contempt, so just blame the foreigners for disrupting their well planned scheme to deprive some shareholders of the rightful votes at the AGM as provided for in the constitution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also on dividend irrelevance explanation:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dividendirrelevance.asp

☝for the benefits of others who want to know more as you often heard about this M&M theorem. It's one of the finance backbone we use it so often and taken it for granted.

More technical explanations on M&M theory can be found at Investopedia:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/modigliani-millertheorem.asp#:~:text=The%20Modigliani%2DMiller%20theorem%20(M%26M)%20states%20that%20the%20market,independent%20of%20its%20capital%20structure.

@dumbMoney - Prof Miller as I looked up for his M&M theorem and try to understand it & say it in my own words will be something like this, first bring in the bacon...if you got plenty of bacons(earnings, 15% CAGR NAV, etc) you don't have to worry about how to slice and dice it(aka why worry about dividend, need cash sell some bacons), the market will be smart enough to recognize the size your bacons you brought in by giving you due valuation. The trouble is the FM stopped bringing in bacons since 2014, so smart Alecs would start to sell their holdings and keep it in FD earning interest minus the management fees, that how gotten such a deep irrational discounts as much as 40%. Instead of accepting this normal people conventional wisdom, FM blame gweilo and dogs and wreckers. people are not dummy okay...that's how normal people apply EMT.

When he feels that his ka ka jiao jiao is justified in the name of protecting the 400 retail investors, other people (minus the invisible dogs) too justified that their ka ka jiao jioa in the names of 2,700 of other silent retail investors. The result is dy/dx > ZERO.

IMHO, the "only" issue should be solved using Newton's third law.

Basically postulates that when two bodies interact, they apply forces to one another that are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction.

The there is a ka ka jiao jiao(action), surely there is ka ka jiao jiao(reaction) with same magnitude of force.

😂😂
Was not aware of dogs in the AGM... Another imaginary enemies? . If he hates COL and Pop, put some poops in their mouth and face. Why suddenly dragged dogs running in the auditorium? I thought was a peaceful AGM and only issue that felt it outside the auditorium somebody hide the legal costs of 800 k without any explanation?

Prof Fama said when they studied the fund management as a population, it can't beat market over a long period of time after management fees and other costs. Some lucky managers can but will be at the expense of other active managers -- question will be, for how long?

If the fund manager want to lan si, then compare to another fund manager

Eastspring Investments Small-cap Fund

It was established in year 2001 about 4 years earlier than iCAP, generating return of 1064.63%, CAGR of 11.5% over 22 years. They went through all of kind of big or small bear markets and similar lau sai KLSE market also.

Do people so lan si, trumpeting they are better than the best?

Also all other all other basis of M & A to pay a company by discounting it at a proper discount rate on its ability to generate future cash flow/earnings + terminal value must be also throw into a black hole.

Haha! Then all the finance students should tear their textbooks....all other foundations such as CAPM, Markowitz portfolio theory and Black-Scholes pricing option model must be deviant teachings also. All must go back to cave and do a barter system. ☹

Have a listen to Prof Fama on value investing, expected return and risk premia @ min 12:30

https://youtu.be/uIYzNxaMaX8

Also his view on AI and investing @ min 21:35

I am really puzzled by iCAP advertising on low risk, high return.

Let's not talk about low risk first, just talk about high return. Is 4.5% share price CAGR high return???? 1 year, 2 year okay la but we are talking about 17 years!

Any lawyer around here? Can we stop iCAP to continue to advertise low risk, high return? They cannot keep saying not happy don't buy la.

"The Consumer Protection Act 1999 makes false and misleading advertising a criminal offence."

https://www.eraconsumer.org/eraconsumer/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=234:misleading-advertising&catid=80:consumer-law&Itemid=106#:~:text=The%20Consumer%20Protection%20Act%201999,purchase%20of%20goods%20and%20services.

Based on the historical back testing data by @dumbMoney......The fund manager will need his magic hands to do 30% CAGR at least 3 years in a row to convince he still has the Midas touch....PAR

Evan at 25% CAGR, people will give him markah kesian with 10% discounts.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Plotted together, there is a very strong correlation coefficient between NAV CAGR and price discount, at R square = 0.86, meaning that up to 86% of the price discount variation can be accounted for by the CAGR, i.e. the declining price discount can be directly traced back to the declining CAGR performance of the fund. Mystery solved.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Peter Lynch's investing technique😂😂

🙈🙉🙊

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
free thing no good.
Laura Ashley went into Administration
and sold off almost free 🤣 to US based bankruptcy specialist firm.

////////////
Investors basically got free Laura Ashley with the price they paid.
///////////

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Smart man✌

@sslee, respect your reasonings.

Yup....anything possible.

What is your view on BJ Corp?

@dumbMoney, I won't poke you with a pen, I will hug you when I see you at the hall way🤗

@ Observatory, thanks for the appreciation. Don't be just a silent reader, please feel free to chip in to geh poh a bit....make the chat room more lively a bit😂😂

Unlocking value from conglomerate sometimes sounds very lucrative, in reality a long, lonely journey. Either strike gold or go home empty handed.

iCAP fund manager advocated a similar thesis called Malayan United Industries. (MUI - stock code 3891)in 2008. MUI was actively raising cash by disposing Corus hotels, turning around Metrojaya department store and also owned 34% in Laura Ashley.

At that point of time, iCapital.biz publishers and its associates also owned the shares. The price when they wrote that piece was $M0.25/share. Last checked $0.06/share, - 76% over a period of 15 years.

They wrote that the market was grossly misrepresent the potential of MUI turnaround. As at 31 December 2007, MUI has RM 830 mln long term borrowings and RM 778 ml worth of cash and cash equivalents.

MUI also has properties worth RM 1.12 bln, mainly carried at net book value. Out of this RM 1.12 bln, RM 781 mln represents the value of the hotels in the UK, carried at 2001’s cost, and RM 118 mln represents the value of the group’s hotels in Malaysia and Australia.

They also have 1,100 acres of underdeveloped land in Bandar Springhill(around RM 100 mln @ 1995’s value), Menanra PMI(RM 30.8 mln), and other lands and buildings. The group’s crown jewel, the Corus Hyde Park Hotel, alone worth close to RM 600 mln at the current value.

All these they argued provided investors with a margin of safety.

Investors basically got free Laura Ashley with the price they paid.

I have not checked the details of the fundamental after 15 years, surely they still have billions of assets. Is the market still insanely punishing MUI?

Just for reference.......

😆You know, I know lah. Cheers 🍻

>>>>>
TBB will hold capA before covid 19 and will still dumb dumb hold capA till suspension and delist. There is no value investing from TBB. He is just a thick skin trying to hold on the icap management and earned his undeserved management fees.
>>>>>

Nobody even talked about closing his fund down but only talking about probability on theoretical realizable of NAV with 75% approval with special resolutions. People only talked about ordinary resolutions like normal appointment of BODs already created the hallucinations of Brutus conspiracy.

Insas could be well legitimate business with many assets and cash rich, that is the reason why I thanked @dumbMoney for his simple explanation that corrected my perception. The issue is unlocking assets on his own will be difficult. It's his lifelong handwork. He will fight till last drop of his blood for those want to dismantle his business. If you read further, he wants his next generation to continue to guard his business.

You can see how iCAP of which is such a tiny small fund will go all out to names calling, calling people learning nothing good from #1 MBA school in the world and writing rubbish here.

I respect you reasonings.

@dumbMoney... Thanks, else I could have committed a manslaughter with my pen. 🙏

Sorry, I think I really have cakap banyak. 🙏🙏🙏

A good company always talk you in English that your grandmother understand. This is a rule of thumb. Anything above that, leave it to hedge fund managers that specialized in special situation where they have enough money and legal fire power.

Market hates uncertainty or things they don't understand. A sudden rise, could be pump and dump.

Too many complicated footnotes.. Some belong to clients and what not... Really sorry.. All the best to those have big balls to raid the company... Not for me. I only skimmed through the AR like 15 mins, gut feel is just keep telling me it's too good to be true. Or may be owner may be really screwed the company so badly wanted to take it privately at the expense of minority shareholders. In doubt,my first reaction, RUN.😂😂

Who is this Dato's Sri Thong?

Another WB wannabe?

I lost count on # of subsidiaries that even auditors making disclaimers some of them are not audited by them.

Speaking of the cash, why the interests received is so low, sitting on 1 billion cash?

Some many be attracted by some ownership in Inari but on balance it could be a honey trap. Sorry, the company is too big for a small brain like mine to analyze further.

Paiseh...no further comments.

Mah lei! I thought iCAP will leave us in peace and let us talk rubbish...still monitoring us???

after all, we got only 1 share, in no way can threatened them. WTF with JohnD0ugh coming back with low risk, high return garbage again!

For those just came back from iCAP pilgrimage trip, I have a simple challenge for those believe in low risk high return,

Put $1,000,000 in iCAP at buying price of $4.20/share(20% premium on last NAV), see happen to this low risk, high return.

😤

Correction: .....Consolation is we were NOT dragged into the Brutus conspiracy to topple Ceasar.

Good that now they know we rant because we want to point out things that are not right and not to be benefited personally from all the postings.

Good that Patient Investor left lagak lan si lan yeong.

All he cares is to keep Ceasar in power for another year, pending court case on foreign limit thingy. Consolation is we were dragged into the Brutus conspiracy to topple Ceasar.

A numbers of resolutions were heavily voted against such as reelection of BODs, Dato Seri Md Ajib Bin Anuar, Ms Tan Mun Ling and even the auditor. The voting patterns were the same. I take only 1 of the resolution as a sample for discussion

Resolution 3 To re-elect Ms Tan Mun Lin as a Director
For 467 shareholders
Votes 45,021,704
% 56.9581

Against 27 shareholders
Votes 34,021,851
% 43.0419

Total 79,043,555

Total foreign shareholders that most likely voted against were as follow:
COL 32,117,900 shares
Pop Investment 1,279,600 shares
BROWN BROTHERS HARRIMAN & CO. (CGWI LTD) 990,000 shares
Total 34,387,500

Minus the foreign holding votes, so basically it says that only a few small minority that voted against but with not much shareholding firepower.

The rest of the 2700++ shareholders with remaining 61 million shareholding just can't be bothered(indifference).

Ceasar just declared, Rome still under his rules. The rest of you few small potatoes can keep on ranting.

Wah.. So jia lat one ah.. 😱