Structured warrants are a different ball game. The hardcore players have a different psyche and strategy than those buying "quality ordinary shares". Players accept that a significant number of their trades will end in losses. Possibly as high as 100% in some cases (no buyer until expiry).

The key is in trying to minimise losses while squeezing winners to the maximum. The latter will more than make up for the losses. Petronm-CA's ex price may look high. But since the mother apowars to be recovering, and there's 4 months to expiry, they took a position. 10k units = RM350; 100k = RM3,500 or so. This will double when there's momentum. And who is to say there will not be any momentum, for sure, in the next 4 months? If it looks unlikely, they will sell at a loss and move on.

So many examples about the power of warrants. DRBHICOM-C19 for instance. It was at 5.5 sen just a few weeks ago. The punter would have gotten at least 300% returns from this one.

I'm guessing the same - slightly better than the previous quarter. But likely lower over the corresponding period of one year ago. This is the reason Petron had suffered a sharp drop despite the 20 sen dividend. But the impact won't be as severe this time because the short-term investors are mostly gone over the past couple of months.

Angielim, PETRONM-CA...? This is the only structured warrant available. Relatively high volume the past couple of days. Likely because it's the only game in town for punters. 'Low' price but it doesn't look too attractive:
Ex. Price 6.00; Ratio 12:1; Expiry 15/12/16.

Right now the premium is 57%, which is too high for my liking. Or, the mother needs to add another RM2.31 before we break even. Not impossible, but the odds aren't attractive.

Those playing it are probably looking to find "a bigger fool". Buy at 3 sen and hopefully someone will buy at 4.5. But if punters stop to think about the ex price, they might have doubts. But I'm not saying one can't profit from this. If PETRONM continues to increase, -CA is the only cheap option to speculate on.

Often, we just need to be a bit brave and buy when quality counters drop. We can't always get them at the very lowest point. But "lower than normal average" should be good enough. And then have the stamina and patience to wait and do nothing. Sometimes it doesn't take that long; just a few months before things turn the other direction.

Starting to see some action again. The C3 is coming back from the dead

At the moment there's not much liquidity with Petron shares. See the wide gap between the Buy and Sell quoted. And low volume. There will be significant price changes both ways; see-sawing but not really going anywhere. Everyone interested in it are waiting for some impetus. Quarter results, for instance.

If one keeps getting frightened by "What if...", he will never buy. Or sell anything ("What if the price shoots to the moon?"). The key factor to consider: "What is"...the technical readings, the price action.

It's clearly out of favour right now. But I think the sellers are mostly gone already. The next quarter results will be important. The sharp decline had been due to the numbers not being excellent, which investors had expected to justify the share price several months ago. At the same time, the results weren't really 'bad'.

I believe investors, especially institutions, will return. The dividend yield is good, and what other petrol-station companies are there on Bursa? Petronas Dagangan - high price. BP - part of a conglomorate (Bstead). Shell - only the refinery business, not retail. The price of crude oil, though important, is secondary. There will always be demand on the retail side.

One `leceh' thing is the weekend. It tends to disturb the momentum, and next Monday might be another story when it comes to investors' mood.

Angielim - I think some of these Petron stations, especially the bigger ones with all sorts of facilities, are under PETRONM. You can check in its last Annual report.

ankahill - Looks like it. But why? Are they slowly liquidating their holdings... or could there be something else?

Last two days have been fairly encouraging. I'm inclined to believe the bottom has been found. Taking a small position, with 2.75 as the cut-loss point.

Very good - it went past the 0.79 resistance.
But it has to close above this level. If it does, will be a happy weekend.

0.79 is said to be a crucial resistance point. Let's see tomorrow. If it fails to break past, hopefully 0.76 will hold as support. Can wait next week. The more important thing is to build a solid base. So many new units from the rights issue that have to be digested by the market first.

I plan to come in again. But must be reasonably confident of the support level first. It's okay to buy at a slightly higher price. So I'll wait for a clearer picture.

By the way, the time when most people had totally given up on a counter - that's when you'd want to be in. Because all the sellers are gone, and those remaining will keep holding on.

It's unrealistic to expect a counter to go up in a straight line. Up and up every day. Take AirAsia when it rebounded from 0.90 to almost 3.00 right now. It wasn't a straight line but with quite many dips. Actually these dips are also critical - weak holders get out, to be replaced by those with more conviction. Support levels get established.

At the moment, it certainly looks like MBSB had found its bottom, AND seeking a higher level wherever that may be.

Murali, I didn't buy too many earlier. Which means I'll just have to hold all for the longer term.

If one constantly worries about "what if" and the future - which are things no one knows about - he can never buy or sell anything. The "What is" factor is the best that's available to us in making decisions. This will still be guessing, but there's no tool that is better.

I don't give too much thought to the investment banks' TP. It's the price action that matters most. And right now it's positive. Just taking advantage of a seeming change in tide.

If it's on an uptrend, that's the time to average up. But ONLY when one is reasonably sure it's an uptrend and not a flash in the pan.

Quarter report to be announced on 8 August...? Some insiders likely already know about the results. How do you explain the sudden interest in this counter which is normally quiet?

@chl1989 No one can really say whether that is a good or bad decision. Simply because no one knows the future. Not a bad price actually, because this is supposed to be at support. But should have a Plan B to cut loss should it slip below a certain level.

This trade didn't work out for me. Took a 12-sen loss to close the position. It might rebound next week, true. But have to be disciplined and stick to my plan of cutting loss when it slips below a specified level.

It's almost impossible to catch the very bottom. Whenever we do manage that, it's mostly because of luck. Just have to guess and take a position (or not) at some point. But it's also prudent to decide on a cut-loss point. Don't want to have capital stuck in a counter that gets lower slowly.

@Gusen Yup, I'm tempted to test the water too. Basic technical principle says "Buy strength, not weakness" because Cheap can always become Cheaper. I may be looking for trouble here but I'm going to take a small position nonetheless. 3.00 *should* be strong support. If not, will just take the small loss.

This is encouraging. Has the bottom been found? Let's see on Monday. Might be worth a risk. But with a stop loss placed at 1.70.

True, the downtrend is the bigger issue. No matter how good a company is perceived to be, and despite dividends, it's no fun seeing our counter losing value.

It's better to a spectator for now. No advantage in holding any new counters over the Raya holidays. Keep the gunpowder unused and wait for a better time.

One person's guess is as good as the other. It may possibly move up some more because the Brexit drop was rather severe. The markets are finding equilibrium, and the correction appears upwards. But we have seen this before - whenever most everyone favours one direction, the market does the opposite. Things will remain volatile. Must have one foot at the door at all times, ready to run.

stainlyho37 Congratulations. You made the right call yesterday.

These look reasonable enough. Especially if one is looking for fixed income. Rain or shine, Hiaptek still has to cough out the 5% or it would be in default. This industry (steel) isn't exactly too healthy though, and there might be issues down the road. Then it will be the usual drill - loan stock holders having to take a haircut etc. But for the moment, Hiaptek is starting on a fresh note with the new capital. The -LA might be worth the risk, all things considered.

@murali There's a fixed interest rate on the -LA, isn't there? And should this company close, would it be the -LA holders who are first in line when it comes to liquidation proceeds?

Considering the general market since Brexit, this counter's performance is encouraging. Don't have to put up anything spectacular. Slow and steady is just fine.

@murali Those who had seen these corporate exercises before would be wary. The adjustments, new shares and what-not often put selling pressure. Even relatively quality counters like TopGlove, Taann etc. had seen a drop in price. Nowadays it's better to take profits when we can instead of lingering around.

Fam Jenny: I don't think the UMA query was the trigger. This has become a dime a dozen the past few months. In fact, rather predictable and expected. I doubt traders had given it much weight.

I believe it's a combination of these:
1) Pump and dump by syndicate.
2) Prudent traders closing positions and taking profit. Especially those who know how difficult it is when a counter approaches a round number. Better to take money off the table first and see how it handles the 1.00 level.

3) People panicking. They had a good reason to join the selling when they see others giving away to Buyer's price.

4) Automated cut-loss selling at prices previously set. Some trading platforms have this very useful facility. I know Affin-Hwang does. Many people can't stay glued to the screen so they set this as precaution should the unexpected happen.

Calvin had made right AND wrong calls. Just like most of us at one time or another. With this counter, he may have been wrong for most of the day. But his warning about this being a pump-and-dump turned out to be correct in the final hour. That was a huge call so have to give him credit for that.

But anyway, today is water under the bridge. Better to focus on what's ahead. All of us have different positions. Some had taken profit, some had taken a loss, some are still holding this counter (most likely with paper loss), some no position. Since there's no trading today, I believe that will result in cooler heads on Thursday morning. Personally I wouldn't dare to trade a volatile counter like this. Because I'm basically the cautious type who doesn't have the stomach to go through this kind of movements. But the bolder ones might see an opportunity to play a possible rebound. Either this or the counter will slide further although I don't think it will be as dramatic as today.

Have to respect Koon Bee. He takes it like a man. Accepts full responsibility for his trades regardless of how they go.

Quite a number of lessons when you read the comments from 4pm onwards. One of these is to always try to be humble. Never ever be overconfident and arrogant, because we just don't know how things will go. Today is an extreme. But something like this has happened before. Again and again. We have to take risks to try and make money. There's no other way. However, there must always be a cut-loss point with every trade. Especially the big ones.

I've observed that with this kind of counter, one will likely (there's never a guarantee) make a profit when he: 1) didn't buy at near the historical highest point. 2) Waits "long enough".

It will always be a guess when it comes to buying. We simply won't know what the lowest point really is until after the facts. With BJFood, 1.58 might have been the lowest point. Or this point might be tested again in the near future, and fail to hold. We have seen "cheap" becoming cheaper so many times. With Parkson, for instance, which is just one of many examples. Just when you thought "It can't possibly get lower than this", it does!

But we have also seen of many turnarounds. AirAsia is a very good example. Most of us should remember that period after the report by one Hong Kong analyst. Just some months ago it was at 0.90. Many were speculating it would go to 0.50. But it staged a remarkable turnaround after that. Those who took the risk easily made at least 100% returns. Many others are filled with regret about that missed chance.

BJFood may not command the same attention among investors and traders. But one can't deny it is quite attractively price right now. When compared to previously. There's the worry about it slipping again. But I think we can mitigate this by setting a cut-loss point. If it gets below 1.55, for instance, then just sell. Take the small loss there and then. Actually this is what I'm doing with BJFood - had used one-third of the allocated capital for it to buy at this level. Will add more should the price show signs of recovery. Have to take risks at one point. We just don't know when "the best time" really is.

That's the clincher. I was also thinking about OpenSys the past few weeks. 0.28 looks to be strong support and this company seems to the local leader when it comes to cash deposit and similar machines. Currency-wise, I believe it's more likely for ringgit to recover than it getting to like last year.

Are the sellers gone and is 1.58 the support? Might not be a bad time to buy a few lots. KRR pulls the company down but the top management most likely has a plan. 1 sen dividend is chickenfeed, yes. But BJFOOD pays out every quarter. The more important thing is the share price, of course. If this is the bottom, then now is a good time as any.

@davidpau98 Hope you can keep up updated on your assessment of BJFood. I've been following it too and hoping to have it as a longer-term investment. Being at a 52-week low looks attractive. But maybe it's better to wait a bit more. Let it carve a new support point first.

I'm still holding on to some Petron shares. Had sold half just before the dividend ex date, which turned out to be a fortuitous decision. However, the remaining units will stay. With this kind of counter, one needs to allow enough time for things to happen. Yes, it might go to 3.50. Or below 3.00. But I'll cross the bridge when I come to it.

By the way, note the volume - it hasn't been big during the slide. I believe this could be forced selling of margin accounts.

When the trend is downwards, it's prudent to stay away for the time being. Whether a company is 'good' or 'bad', the price matters the most. AirAsia is regarded as generally good by many. But during the time when it was going down and down, the better thing is to stay at the sidelines. It went to below 0.90. While it has rebounded strongly, investors would have been better served had they waited until things moved the other direction first.

The time for Supermax will come again. But it isn't now.

When the trend is downwards, it's prudent to stay away for the time being. Whether a company is 'good' or 'bad', the price matters the most. AirAsia is regarded as generally good by many. But during the time when it was going down and down, the better thing is to stay at the sidelines. It went to below 0.90. While it has rebounded strongly, investors would have been better served had they waited until things moved the other direction first.

The time for Supermax will come again. But it isn't now.

The most useful item from here is...not this post. But the comment from @ks55. It's worthy of being copied and saved somewhere so that we could reread it again. This is solid advice.

I have doubts too of the accounts. Especially when it comes to the valuation of assets. Many investors have the same suspicions, as seen by the disconnect between the net tangible asset and the share price of these companies. If they are really grossly underpriced, the major shateholders or external value seekers would launch a takeover and then make the company private. No need to bear all the requirements and regulations imposed on public listed companies. The fact that they letting things remain is likely indication that they know what the real figures are.

But anyway, I accept the fact that we minority shareholders are in this just for the ride. We don't have the clout to decide on anything. Except to decide whether to buy, hold and sell the shares. With CAP, it's a total speculation for me. Can only "hope" the accounting isn't too far off from the real truth. As with the future share price. Yes, "hope" is the best we can do with these counters. For as long as they don't go bankrupt, there will always remain the possibility something might happen. We've seen this so many times - of dumbass counters moving upwards, and rewarding speculators with significant capital returns. The latest is TRIVE. So I'm letting it be with CAP. Worse-case situation - it goes bankrupt and delisted. But we'd still have time to try salvage some of the capital. That's how it goes in the stock market. Have to take risks to be in the game.

@Angielim9955 I had bought at 0.09. Not many lots but it's still something frustrating when you see your speculation losing 50% in paper value. Trying to buy at 0.045. This is with part of the capital from my "Structured Warrants" portfolio capital. That is, specific for higher risk speculations.

Investors have a lot of doubts about these China companies, and there's justification. I wouldn't put serious money and see them as "investment". But "speculation" is another story. One good thing about CAP is that, unlike warrants, it doesn't have an expiry date. I think I can take a punt on it - buy at 0.045 or 0.05 and then wait for something to happen. At this price, the movements in either direction will be quite significant percentage-wise.

The website provided by Stocks Hunter above is useful. A bit heavy to load though on a smartphone. A desktop PC or laptop would be more suitable. Some interesting resources to explore. Thanks.

The price is very tempting, especially in attempting to "catch the bottom". Will be thrilling during the times when we are successful. Like with DRBHICOM, UMWOG etc today. But the risk is, cheap getting cheaper, of course. This is something which most of us would know very well from previous experience.

So how...? Wait for it to prove a bottom first? Or maybe buy a bit first, in case it quickly turns the other way? Or the structured warrants, especially -C7? Less capital getting stuck with this.

Got a lucky break with my copycat (of hng33) quick contra trade. Didn't expect that massive dumping late in the session. Who was it - EPF? This is the kind of thing that would cripple our trading account if we over-extend our trades and don't decide on a stop-loss point.

Would be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow. This is unchartered territory. The technical charts are broken.