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Stock
2022-09-13 12:27 | Report Abuse
Very important Question if u can answer then u will solve the mystery loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin swap on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
WHY GENERAL RAIDER ASK THIS VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION LEH ?
"Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one massively of more than billions... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin swap on one to one bet leh" ?
AS U ALL KNOW, THERE ARE REALLY NO COMMODITIES MKT for 'REFINERY MARGIN SWAP' TRADED....IF U WANT TO BET...U NEED TO FIND A COUNTER PARTY LOH!
THATS LEAD TO RAIDER VIRTUAL REFINERY EXPLAINATIONS EARLIER LOH! SUPPOSE BASE ON SSLEE PAPER CALCULATION, U CAN ACTUALLY MAKE USD 35 PER BARREL MARGIN ON PETROL & DIESEL WHEN U HEDGE FWD LOH! BUT AS RAIDER EXPLAIN THIS PAPER SUCCESS , NEED TO FACE THE CHALLENGE OF MKT VOLATILITY & ACTUAL EXECUTION LOH...THUS TRANSLATE TO A PROBABILITY SUCCESS RATE OF SAY 75% LOH!
THIS SHOULD BE POSITIVE FOR HENGYUAN IF THEY GO BUY CRUDE BRENT & SELL DIESEL & PETROL future IN ORDER TO HEDGE AND LOCK IN A POTENTIAL PROFIT DUE TO THE HIGHER PROBABLE SUCCESS LOH!
BUT INSTEAD OF HENGYUAN DOING THAT....THEY LOOK FOR A FRIENDLY VIRTUAL REFINERY..TO BE THE COUNTER PARTY OFFERING THEM A "REFINERY MARGIN SWAP" WITH USD 10 MARGIN.....AND THE VIRTUAL REFINERY WILL DO THE HEDGE WITH A GROSS PAPER PROFIT MARGIN OF USD 35....N THEY OFFER HENGYUAN REFINERY MARGIN OF USD 10....THUS THE VIRTUAL REFINERY APPEAR SAFELY HEDGE AT USD 25 LOH!
THUS HENGYUAN WILL BEAR THE BRUNT OF VOLATILITY & EXECUTION risk WITH INADEQUATE MARGIN OF SAFETY OF USD 10 LOH! THAT COULD BE THE EXPLAINATION, WHY HENGYUAN MAKE LOSSES OF MORE THAN RM 1 BILLION ON A REFINING MARGIN SWAP LOH!
THE ABOVE SUSPICIOUS ARRANGEMENT IS "BUSINESS LIKE & IT APPEAR LEGAL" BUT IT WILL BE THE DETRIMENTAL TO HENGYUAN SHAREHOLDERS IN THE LONG RUN LOH!
"A quick check on Petron....there is no Refining Margin swap hedge done loh"!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 17:38 | Report Abuse
Why today Petron goes up but hengyuan do not leh ??
1. Petron with its refinery & petrol stations has better value than hengyuan loh! Just Petron Petrol station alone already worth Rm 6.50 per share & its refinery worth Rm 4.50 mah!.
2. Petron had paid higher & consistent dividend than hengyuan at 20 sen per share mah!.
3. Petron Qtr2 31-6-2022 result still reported a commendable net profit of 68 sen per share despite netting of hedging losses whrereas HRC reported a loss of eps Rm 1.37 per share after netting off hedging losses loh!
4. Petron are more well manage & less complicated compare to hengyuan, thus easy to understand & investor is more confident on Petron loh!
5. On hedging Petron adopt a more acceptable universal standard of forward exchange contract & commodity swaps route thru the banks base on over the counter arrangement (OTC} whereas Hengyuan has also Forward exchange contract & commodity swap route thru OTC with banks but it has this dubious Refinery Profit Margin swap done as private arrangement individual counter party loh! This Refinery Profit Margin Swap has generated a staggering more than Rm 1 billion losses at hengyuan loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 17:37 | Report Abuse
Why today Petron goes up but hengyuan do not leh ??
1. Petron with its refinery & petrol stations has better value than hengyuan loh! Just Petron Petrol station alone already worth Rm 6.50 per share & its refinery worth Rm 4.50 mah!.
2. Petron had paid higher & consistent dividend than hengyuan at 20 sen per share mah!.
3. Petron Qtr2 31-6-2022 result still reported a commendable net profit of 68 sen per share despite netting of hedging losses whrereas HRC reported a loss of eps Rm 1.37 per share after netting off hedging losses loh!
4. Petron are more well manage & less complicated compare to hengyuan, thus easy to understand & investor is more confident on Petron loh!
5. On hedging Petron adopt a more acceptable universal standard of forward exchange contract & commodity swaps route thru the banks base on over the counter arrangement (OTC} whereas Hengyuan has also Forward exchange contract & commodity swap route thru OTC with banks but it has this dubious Refinery Profit Margin swap done as private arrangement individual counter party loh! This Refinery Profit Margin Swap has generated a staggering more than Rm 1 billion losses at hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-09-12 17:36 | Report Abuse
Why today Petron goes up but hengyuan do not leh ??
1. Petron with its refinery & petrol stations has better value than hengyuan loh! Just Petron Petrol station alone already worth Rm 6.50 per share & its refinery worth Rm 4.50 mah!.
2. Petron had paid higher & consistent dividend than hengyuan at 20 sen per share mah!.
3. Petron Qtr2 31-6-2022 result still reported a commendable net profit of 68 sen per share despite netting of hedging losses whrereas HRC reported a loss of eps Rm 1.37 per share after netting off hedging losses loh!
4. Petron are more well manage & less complicated compare to hengyuan, thus easy to understand & investor is more confident on Petron loh!
5. On hedging Petron adopt a more acceptable universal standard of forward exchange contract & commodity swaps route thru the banks base on over the counter arrangement (OTC} whereas Hengyuan has also Forward exchange contract & commodity swap route thru OTC with banks but it has this dubious Refinery Profit Margin swap done as private arrangement individual counter party loh! This Refinery Profit Margin Swap has generated a staggering more than Rm 1 billion losses at hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-09-12 17:36 | Report Abuse
Why today Petron goes up but hengyuan do not leh ??
1. Petron with its refinery & petrol stations has better value than hengyuan loh! Just Petron Petrol station alone already worth Rm 6.50 per share & its refinery worth Rm 4.50 mah!.
2. Petron had paid higher & consistent dividend than hengyuan at 20 sen per share mah!.
3. Petron Qtr2 31-6-2022 result still reported a commendable net profit of 68 sen per share despite netting of hedging losses whrereas HRC reported a loss of eps Rm 1.37 per share after netting off hedging losses loh!
4. Petron are more well manage & less complicated compare to hengyuan, thus easy to understand & investor is more confident on Petron loh!
5. On hedging Petron adopt a more acceptable universal standard of forward exchange contract & commodity swaps route thru the banks base on over the counter arrangement (OTC} whereas Hengyuan has also Forward exchange contract & commodity swap route thru OTC with banks but it has this dubious Refinery Profit Margin swap done as private arrangement individual counter party loh! This Refinery Profit Margin Swap has generated a staggering more than Rm 1 billion losses at hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-09-12 13:13 | Report Abuse
Very important Question if u can answer then u will solve the mystery loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 13:13 | Report Abuse
Very important Question if u can answer then u will solve the mystery loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 13:13 | Report Abuse
Very important Question if u can answer then u will solve the mystery loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 13:12 | Report Abuse
Very important Question if u can answer then u will solve the mystery loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 13:09 | Report Abuse
Ya how do u handle the high risk highlighted below leh ?
Why need to be very careful with "Private Refining Margin Swap" ?
Even in the event, we are highly successful with the trade and make billions- The Private Counter Party....can simply just default and nothing we can do loh!
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
Posted by stockraider > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Just becareful loh!
The Hedging is done thru a Private Refining Margin Swap....thru a chinese counter party in SPORE loh!
It is one to one bets loh!
Be very careful mah!
Very Good Points loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 13:04 | Report Abuse
U need to be honest by calling a spade a spade mah!
If U take all derivative valuation mark to mkt in June & flow thru P&L....base on the same high standard as Petron...then Hengyuan will make Q2 losses of Rm 412m or EPS loss of Rm 1.37 per share & Half year losses of Rm 475m or EPS loss of Rm 1.58 per share mah!
No need to bluff mah!
Lu tau boh ??
Hengyuan is having a losses of Rm 475m as per comprehensive income disclosure mah!
Stop kidding yourself mah!
If Hengyuan going....to make money after june 2022....due to hedging....that is another story mah!
But since the Crack spread has fallen to USD 1 to 5 from USD 20 to 25....i doubt hengyuan operating profit will be good....u will be lucky hengyuan just break even loh!
As for hedging profit if it come after june, it will need to offset agst the culmulative hedging losses of more than Rm 1 billion as at june 2022 loh!
Stock
2022-09-12 13:02 | Report Abuse
U need to be honest by calling a spade a spade mah!
If U take all derivative valuation mark to mkt in June & flow thru P&L....base on the same high standard as Petron...then Hengyuan will make Q2 losses of Rm 412m or EPS loss of Rm 1.37 per share & Half year losses of Rm 475m or EPS loss of Rm 1.58 per share mah!
No need to bluff mah!
Lu tau boh ??
Hengyuan is having a losses of Rm 475m as per comprehensive income disclosure mah!
Stop kidding yourself mah!
If Hengyuan going....to make money after june 2022....due to hedging....that is another story mah!
But since the Crack spread has fallen to USD 1 to 5 from USD 20 to 25....i doubt hengyuan operating profit will be good....u will be lucky hengyuan just break even loh!
As for hedging profit if it come after june, it will need to offset agst the culmulative hedging losses of more than Rm 1 billion as at june 2022 loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 13:00 | Report Abuse
That means now u realized there is value destruction in hengyuan loh!
Value destruction happening in hengyuan summarise below
31-12-2020.....Nta per share Rm 7.22
31-3-2021.................................. Rm Rm 7.14
30-6-2021................................ Rm 6.75
30-9-2021............................ Rm 6.07
31-12-2021......................... Rm 6.83
31-3-2022..........................Rm 6.62
30-6-2022......................... Rm 5.25
Actually 30-6-2022 is the highest value of wealth destruction in Hengyuan despite reporting record operating qtrly profit eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why leh ??
Something is not right mah!
Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse
The unrealised derivatives gain/loss although did not pass thro' the P&L as it was kept as other comprehensive income:
Items that will be reclassified to profit or loss:
But in Balance sheet the unrealised drivatives gain/loss was captured as derivatives assets and derivatives liabilities thus reflected into NTA.
Stock
2022-09-12 12:59 | Report Abuse
That means now u realized there is value destruction in hengyuan loh!
Value destruction happening in hengyuan summarise below
31-12-2020.....Nta per share Rm 7.22
31-3-2021.................................. Rm Rm 7.14
30-6-2021................................ Rm 6.75
30-9-2021............................ Rm 6.07
31-12-2021......................... Rm 6.83
31-3-2022..........................Rm 6.62
30-6-2022......................... Rm 5.25
Actually 30-6-2022 is the highest value of wealth destruction in Hengyuan despite reporting record operating qtrly profit eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why leh ??
Something is not right mah!
Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse
The unrealised derivatives gain/loss although did not pass thro' the P&L as it was kept as other comprehensive income:
Items that will be reclassified to profit or loss:
But in Balance sheet the unrealised drivatives gain/loss was captured as derivatives assets and derivatives liabilities thus reflected into NTA.
Stock
2022-09-12 12:48 | Report Abuse
Haiiyah Just buy lah!
Just drop 1.5 sen only mah!
Have confidence to collect even more mah!
Very big opportunity loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 12:41 | Report Abuse
Value destruction happening in hengyuan summarise below
31-12-2020.....Nta per share Rm 7.22
31-3-2021.................................. Rm Rm 7.14
30-6-2021................................ Rm 6.75
30-9-2021............................ Rm 6.07
31-12-2021......................... Rm 6.83
31-3-2022..........................Rm 6.62
30-6-2022......................... Rm 5.25
Actually 30-6-2022 is the highest value of wealth destruction in Hengyuan despite reporting record operating qtrly profit eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why leh ??
Something is not right mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 12:41 | Report Abuse
Value destruction happening in hengyuan summarise below
31-12-2020.....Nta per share Rm 7.22
31-3-2021.................................. Rm Rm 7.14
30-6-2021................................ Rm 6.75
30-9-2021............................ Rm 6.07
31-12-2021......................... Rm 6.83
31-3-2022..........................Rm 6.62
30-6-2022......................... Rm 5.25
Actually 30-6-2022 is the highest value of wealth destruction in Hengyuan despite reporting record operating qtrly profit eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why leh ??
Something is not right mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 12:40 | Report Abuse
Value destruction happening in hengyuan summarise below
31-12-2020.....Nta per share Rm 7.22
31-3-2021.................................. Rm Rm 7.14
30-6-2021................................ Rm 6.75
30-9-2021............................ Rm 6.07
31-12-2021......................... Rm 6.83
31-3-2022..........................Rm 6.62
30-6-2022......................... Rm 5.25
Actually 30-6-2022 is the highest value of wealth destruction in Hengyuan despite reporting record operating qtrly profit eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why leh ??
Something is not right mah!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 12:40 | Report Abuse
Value destruction happening in hengyuan summarise below
31-12-2020.....Nta per share Rm 7.22
31-3-2021.................................. Rm Rm 7.14
30-6-2021................................ Rm 6.75
30-9-2021............................ Rm 6.07
31-12-2021......................... Rm 6.83
31-3-2022..........................Rm 6.62
30-6-2022......................... Rm 5.25
Actually 30-6-2022 is the highest value of wealth destruction in Hengyuan despite reporting record operating qtrly profit eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why leh ??
Something is not right mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 12:15 | Report Abuse
In addition there will be a mark to mkt inventory losses for hengyuan due to crude fallen from USD 110 in june to USD 92 now loh! Easily the mark to mkt losses inventory exceed Rm 150m loh!
Stock
2022-09-12 12:12 | Report Abuse
Sslee,
Why U R so stubborn....the working is all work up for u by Hengyuan....Just look at the detail financial statement as at 30-6-2022....just look at the comprehensive income lah!
Simple mah!
If U take all derivative valuation mark to mkt in June & flow thru P&L....base on the same high standard as Petron...then Hengyuan will make Q2 losses of Rm 412m or EPS loss of Rm 1.37 per share & Half year losses of Rm 475m or EPS loss of Rm 1.58 per share mah!
No need to bluff mah!
Lu tau boh ??
Hengyuan is having a losses of Rm 475m as per comprehensive income disclosure mah!
Stop kidding yourself mah!
If Hengyuan going....to make money after june 2022....due to hedging....that is another story mah!
But since the Crack spread has fallen to USD 1 to 5 from USD 20 to 25....i doubt hengyuan operating profit will be good....u will be lucky hengyuan just break even loh!
As for hedging profit if it come after june, it will need to offset agst the culmulative hedging losses of more than Rm 1 billion as at june 2022 loh!
Stock
2022-09-12 11:54 | Report Abuse
Simple mah!
If U take all derivative valuation mark to mkt in June & flow thru P&L....base on the same high standard as Petron...then Hengyuan will make Q2 losses of Rm 412m or EPS loss of Rm 1.37 per share & Half year losses of Rm 475m or EPS loss of Rm 1.58 per share mah!
No need to bluff mah!
It is all back up by facts & figure mah!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 11:54 | Report Abuse
Simple mah!
If U take all derivative valuation mark to mkt in June & flow thru P&L....base on the same high standard as Petron...then Hengyuan will make Q2 losses of Rm 412m or EPS loss of Rm 1.37 per share & Half year losses of Rm 475m or EPS loss of Rm 1.58 per share mah!
No need to bluff mah!
It is all back up by facts & figure mah!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 11:53 | Report Abuse
Simple mah!
If U take all derivative valuation mark to mkt in June & flow thru P&L....base on the same high standard as Petron...then Hengyuan will make Q2 losses of Rm 412m or EPS loss of Rm 1.37 per share & Half year losses of Rm 475m or EPS loss of Rm 1.58 per share mah!
No need to bluff mah!
It is all back up by facts & figure mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 11:52 | Report Abuse
Simple mah!
If U take all derivative valuation mark to mkt in June & flow thru P&L....base on the same high standard as Petron...then Hengyuan will make Q2 losses of Rm 412m or EPS loss of Rm 1.37 per share & Half year losses of Rm 475m or EPS loss of Rm 1.58 per share mah!
No need to bluff mah!
It is all back up by facts & figure mah!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 11:14 | Report Abuse
Haiyah calmdown lah!
What uncle Koon mean is Mogas crack margin mah!
Btw....no need to call Uncle koon idioot for that loh!
Posted by Sslee > 30 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Idooit there is not such thing as Brent Crack Spread margin don't invent it.
In the market refining margin refer selling price of refining products[
gasoline (petrol), diesel fuel, asphalt base, fuel oils, heating oil, kerosene, liquefied petroleum gas and petroleum naphtha] minus Brent crude price.
And please go check HRC financial report what are HRC refining products:
HRC 2021 annual report Page22 :
CRUDE PROCESSING FY2021
Finished Products
Liquified Petroleum Gas 7.8%
Propylene 3.8%
Light Naphtha 0.1%
Petrol 24.5%
Jet Fuel 7.1%
Diesel 35.1%
Fuel Oil Component 2.7%
Additional
Catalytic Cracked Gasoline (CCG) 16.3%
Combined Cycle Oil (CCO) 2.6%
SOURCES OF CRUDE
Malaysian: 52%
Far East: 7.2%
Russian :14.7%
Middle East: 9.6%
Others 16.5%
HRC CRUDE PROCESSING FY2020
Finished Products
Liquified Petroleum Gas 7.0%
Propylene 3.0%
Light Naphtha 0.5%
Petrol 22.0%
Jet Fuel 4.0%
Diesel 46.0%
Fuel Oil Component 1.5%
Additional
Catalytic Cracked Gasoline (CCG) 11.0%
Combined Cycle Oil (CCO) 5.0%
SOURCES OF CRUDE
54.8% Malaysian
14.9%Far East (Non Malaysian)
10.9% Russian
14.4% Middle East
5.0%Others
Stock
2022-09-12 09:56 | Report Abuse
U look at Derivative Note 18 of Q2 result & zoom on the core problem area the Refining Swap Margin & ask yourself
Refining Margin Swap
Notional Contract USD 227m or approx @ 4.30 at Rm 976m
Assets Rm 261m.....this is the likely deposits to secure the contract .
Liabilities Rm 1,751M @Most likely losses incurred todate....if not how to explain notional contract is only Rm 976m but its liabilities is Rm 1,751M
Do u not see...something strange ??
Why the other derivative other than Refining swap margin derivative, do not attract such a high collateral deposits of Rm 261m b4 can execute the contract leh ?
Stock
2022-09-12 09:18 | Report Abuse
Remember QQQ words of wisdom below loh!
"one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here."!
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
Also ask yourself this very important question below loh!
1.Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
2.Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
3.What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
Think Rational without emotion & U will get the important answers mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 09:05 | Report Abuse
Ya how do u handle the high risk highlighted below leh ?
Why need to be very careful with "Private Refining Margin Swap" ?
Even in the event, we are highly successful with the trade and make billions- The Private Counter Party....can simply just default and nothing we can do loh!
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
Posted by stockraider > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Just becareful loh!
The Hedging is done thru a Private Refining Margin Swap....thru a chinese counter party in SPORE loh!
It is one to one bets loh!
Be very careful mah!
Very Good Points loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Stock
2022-09-12 09:00 | Report Abuse
Sslee,
Correctloh!
"one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here."!
QQQ talk alot of sense
I thought QQQ already answer u mah!
Btw u better check out the Refining Margin Swap b4 u have so much conviction loh!
Posted by Sslee > 8 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Stockraider,
You can't even understand my questions hence safely to say you don't even know how to read HRC financial report.
But sadly to say that didn't stop you from coming out with virtual refinery, Private Refining Margin Swap and many ridiculous assumption. You had made yourself a laughing stock in i3 and people are rolling on floor laughing their heart out.
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 08:28 | Report Abuse
Actually rice is too cheap now, compare with others food commodities loh!
General
2022-09-12 08:27 | Report Abuse
Election is likely b4 year end mah!
Stock
2022-09-12 08:25 | Report Abuse
Do not be silly believing all those negative lies by naysayers loh!
People should investigate further for themselves & they will find out that TSH is actually a wonderful buy below Rm 1.07 loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 08:21 | Report Abuse
Dengar baik baik, what raider said....very important to note....when u invest in cyclical steel stocks loh!
As raider say b4....Steel industry is cyclical and for msia steel industry.....the players are aggressive & speculative.....they tend to ramp & speculate on their inventories more than their reqn, when steel price is going up and dump in aggressively when price is going down loh!
This scenario is true as most of the steel player tend to borrow heavily on their trade & give big credits to their customer loh!
If U want to succeed in investing in this business in the long run....better buy into strong players which are net cash rich and will not be affected by heavy debts loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-12 08:18 | Report Abuse
Correctloh!
"one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here."!
QQQ talk alot of sense below loh:
Posted by qqq3333 > 11 hours ago | Report Abuse
So my layman question.
If you hedge the refining margin at USD 12 - 20 per barrel from month july onward till maybe beyond 2022 up to 2023.
And current crack spread is only from usd 2 to 5 leh then how much money your refining magin swap contracts maturity on Sept will earned?
_≠==============
Sslee.....that is a silly question...u can as easily and as correctly stated your question as how much money u would have lost...
....no kidding....don't use the word hedging without any understanding what happened
one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here.
Stock
2022-09-12 08:17 | Report Abuse
Correctloh!
"one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here."!
QQQ talk alot of sense below loh:
Posted by qqq3333 > 11 hours ago | Report Abuse
So my layman question.
If you hedge the refining margin at USD 12 - 20 per barrel from month july onward till maybe beyond 2022 up to 2023.
And current crack spread is only from usd 2 to 5 leh then how much money your refining magin swap contracts maturity on Sept will earned?
_≠==============
Sslee.....that is a silly question...u can as easily and as correctly stated your question as how much money u would have lost...
....no kidding....don't use the word hedging without any understanding what happened
one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here.
Watchlist
2022-09-12 08:17 | Report Abuse
Correctloh!
"one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here."!
QQQ talk alot of sense below loh:
Posted by qqq3333 > 11 hours ago | Report Abuse
So my layman question.
If you hedge the refining margin at USD 12 - 20 per barrel from month july onward till maybe beyond 2022 up to 2023.
And current crack spread is only from usd 2 to 5 leh then how much money your refining magin swap contracts maturity on Sept will earned?
_≠==============
Sslee.....that is a silly question...u can as easily and as correctly stated your question as how much money u would have lost...
....no kidding....don't use the word hedging without any understanding what happened
one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here.
Stock
2022-09-12 08:16 | Report Abuse
Correctloh!
"one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here."!
QQQ talk alot of sense below loh:
Posted by qqq3333 > 11 hours ago | Report Abuse
So my layman question.
If you hedge the refining margin at USD 12 - 20 per barrel from month july onward till maybe beyond 2022 up to 2023.
And current crack spread is only from usd 2 to 5 leh then how much money your refining magin swap contracts maturity on Sept will earned?
_≠==============
Sslee.....that is a silly question...u can as easily and as correctly stated your question as how much money u would have lost...
....no kidding....don't use the word hedging without any understanding what happened
one more thing.............u don't know what prices those contracts and whether long or short were struck, the weightage and volumes for each month also not known. .........how can u calculate here and there....they say rubbish in rubbish out applies here.
Stock
2022-09-11 17:06 | Report Abuse
Very Good Points loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Posted by qqq3333 > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
if every refinery go short on the crack spread contracts, who is on the other side? is there enough volume to make the exchange viable?
Stock
2022-09-11 16:35 | Report Abuse
Be specific....checkout the Refining Swap Contract mah!
Posted by Mikecyc > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse
“Hedging Agreement” means any Swap Contract relating to Crude Oil, Products, other feedstocks, other refined petroleum products or other hydrocarbons (including without limitation any such agreement relating to Crack Spreads, time spreads and grade differentials), entered into by a Person in the ordinary course of business and for non-speculative purposes, that xxxxxx or mitigates risks to which such Person or any of its Subsidiaries has actual exposure.
Stock
2022-09-11 16:32 | Report Abuse
Boloh loh!
If u want to write to Hengyuan.....why don't u quickly check with them how is their Private Refining Margin SWAP done leh ??
Do something productive mah!
Correct mah!
Monday quickly go & check out what & how the Private Refining Margin Swap is structure mah!
No point....complain & buat hal....buat apa leh ?!
Must tackle this pressing point mah!
U investigate for yourself mah!
Posted by stockraider > 16 minutes ago | Report Abuse
U should not attack Raider mah!
Go & investigate the Private Refining Margin Swap Contract Dulu mah!
Go & find out more 1st loh!
information
303 posts
Posted by information > 4 minutes ago | Re
Stock
2022-09-11 16:22 | Report Abuse
Correct mah!
Monday quickly go & check out what & how the Private Refining Margin Swap is structure mah!
No point....complain & buat hal....buat apa leh ?!
Must tackle this pressing point mah!
U investigate for yourself mah!
Posted by stockraider > 16 minutes ago | Report Abuse
U should not attack Raider mah!
Go & investigate the Private Refining Margin Swap Contract Dulu mah!
Go & find out more 1st loh!
Stock
2022-09-11 16:21 | Report Abuse
Correct mah!
Monday quickly go & check out what & how the Private Refining Margin Swap is structure mah!
No point....complain & buat hal....buat apa leh ?!
Must tackle this pressing point mah!
U investigate for yourself mah!
Posted by stockraider > 16 minutes ago | Report Abuse
U should not attack Raider mah!
Go & investigate the Private Refining Margin Swap Contract Dulu mah!
Go & find out more 1st loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-11 16:01 | Report Abuse
U should not attack Raider mah!
Go & investigate the Private Refining Margin Swap Contract Dulu mah!
Go & find out more 1st loh!
For your own good mah!
Stock
2022-09-11 16:01 | Report Abuse
U should not attack Raider mah!
Go & investigate the Private Refining Margin Swap Contract Dulu mah!
Go & find out more 1st loh!
For your own good mah!
Watchlist
2022-09-11 16:00 | Report Abuse
U should not attack Raider mah!
Go & investigate the Private Refining Margin Swap Contract Dulu mah!
Go & find out more 1st loh!
For your own good mah!
Stock
2022-09-11 16:00 | Report Abuse
U should not attack Raider mah!
Go & investigate the Private Refining Margin Swap Contract Dulu mah!
Go & find out more 1st loh!
For your own good mah!
Stock
2022-09-11 15:58 | Report Abuse
moral of the story....suspect veli penting mah!
Cautious very important mah!
Dulu Serba....olang pun suspect only meh ?
Apa macam sekarang ??
Stock
2022-09-11 15:57 | Report Abuse
moral of the story....suspect veli penting mah!
Cautious very important mah!
Dulu Serba....olang pun suspect only meh ?
Apa macam sekarang ??
Stock: [PETRONM]: PETRON MALAYSIA REFINING & MARKETING BERHAD
2022-09-13 12:28 | Report Abuse
Very important Question if u can answer then u will solve the mystery loh!
Btw...it is not an exchange....it is an individual counter party....having a private deal with Hengyuan mah!
Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin swap on one to one bet leh ??
What is there for them, what is counter party their competitive edge over hengyuan leh ?
The huge sum of money, that Hengyuan is betting...to tune of Rm 1.3 billion losses, is just ridiculous mah!
WHY GENERAL RAIDER ASK THIS VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION LEH ?
"Who is the sooohaaiiii counter party dare to bet one to one massively of more than billions... with a refinery like HRC, on Refining margin swap on one to one bet leh" ?
AS U ALL KNOW, THERE ARE REALLY NO COMMODITIES MKT for 'REFINERY MARGIN SWAP' TRADED....IF U WANT TO BET...U NEED TO FIND A COUNTER PARTY LOH!
THATS LEAD TO RAIDER VIRTUAL REFINERY EXPLAINATIONS EARLIER LOH! SUPPOSE BASE ON SSLEE PAPER CALCULATION, U CAN ACTUALLY MAKE USD 35 PER BARREL MARGIN ON PETROL & DIESEL WHEN U HEDGE FWD LOH! BUT AS RAIDER EXPLAIN THIS PAPER SUCCESS , NEED TO FACE THE CHALLENGE OF MKT VOLATILITY & ACTUAL EXECUTION LOH...THUS TRANSLATE TO A PROBABILITY SUCCESS RATE OF SAY 75% LOH!
THIS SHOULD BE POSITIVE FOR HENGYUAN IF THEY GO BUY CRUDE BRENT & SELL DIESEL & PETROL future IN ORDER TO HEDGE AND LOCK IN A POTENTIAL PROFIT DUE TO THE HIGHER PROBABLE SUCCESS LOH!
BUT INSTEAD OF HENGYUAN DOING THAT....THEY LOOK FOR A FRIENDLY VIRTUAL REFINERY..TO BE THE COUNTER PARTY OFFERING THEM A "REFINERY MARGIN SWAP" WITH USD 10 MARGIN.....AND THE VIRTUAL REFINERY WILL DO THE HEDGE WITH A GROSS PAPER PROFIT MARGIN OF USD 35....N THEY OFFER HENGYUAN REFINERY MARGIN OF USD 10....THUS THE VIRTUAL REFINERY APPEAR SAFELY HEDGE AT USD 25 LOH!
THUS HENGYUAN WILL BEAR THE BRUNT OF VOLATILITY & EXECUTION risk WITH INADEQUATE MARGIN OF SAFETY OF USD 10 LOH! THAT COULD BE THE EXPLAINATION, WHY HENGYUAN MAKE LOSSES OF MORE THAN RM 1 BILLION ON A REFINING MARGIN SWAP LOH!
THE ABOVE SUSPICIOUS ARRANGEMENT IS "BUSINESS LIKE & IT APPEAR LEGAL" BUT IT WILL BE THE DETRIMENTAL TO HENGYUAN SHAREHOLDERS IN THE LONG RUN LOH!
"A quick check on Petron....there is no Refining Margin swap hedge done loh"!