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News & Blogs
2022-09-02 23:19 | Report Abuse
Very important u should ask what is the current crack spread as at 2-9-2022?
sept 2022- USD 0.80
0ct 2022 - USD (0.70}
Nov 2022- USD (0.65}
Dec 2022= USD {0.18}
From the above trend the future crack spread trend is highly unattractive with low yield & negative yield loh!
A reasonable yield crack spread should be around USD 4 mah!
This mean Prtron future 12 mths for 31-12-2022 performance will not exceed profit of Rm 289m or EPS Rm 1.07!
Whereas HRC 31-12-2022 future 12 mths performance will not report better result of loss rm 475m or loss of Rm 1.58 per share loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-02 23:18 | Report Abuse
The most question for those people who invest in hengyuan is to ask whether the derivative executed are actually a faked device to siphon money from the company loh ?
The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!
The red flags can be seen by;
1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!
If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!
Be extremely very careful on hengyuan loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-02 23:18 | Report Abuse
Let Raider summarised hengyuan position loh!
1.HRC Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. HRC 6mts 30-6-2022
1a.Profit/{loss} attributable to shareholder............Rm 667m
1b. Profit/{loss? comprehensive to shareholder...Rm {412}m
number of shares Rm 300m
1a. Eps Rm 2.22
1b Eps Rm {1.37}
Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 714m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm (475m}
2a, EPS Rm Rm 2.38
2b. Eps Rm {1.58}
Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!
If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!
Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!
Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!
News & Blogs
2022-09-02 23:17 | Report Abuse
Do not get kon loh!
Let Raider summarised Petron & hengyuan position loh!
1.Petron Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. Pet 6mts 30-6-2022
1a.Profit attributable to shareholder............Rm 183m
1b. Profit comprehensive to shareholder...Rm 183m
number of shares Rm 270m
1a. Eps Rm 0.68
1b Eps Rm 0.68
Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 289m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm 289m
2a, EPS Rm Rm 1.07
2b. Eps Rm 1.07
Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 23:14 | Report Abuse
Very important u should ask what is the current crack spread as at 2-9-2022?
sept 2022- USD 0.80
0ct 2022 - USD (0.70}
Nov 2022- USD (0.65}
Dec 2022= USD {0.18}
From the above trend the future crack spread trend is highly unattractive with low yield & negative yield loh!
A reasonable yield crack spread should be around USD 4 mah!
This mean Prtron future 12 mths for 31-12-2022 performance will not exceed profit of Rm 289m or EPS Rm 1.07!
Whereas HRC 31-12-2022 future 12 mths performance will not report better result of loss rm 475m or loss of Rm 1.58 per share loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 23:13 | Report Abuse
Very important u should ask what is the current crack spread as at 2-9-2022?
sept 2022- USD 0.80
0ct 2022 - USD (0.70}
Nov 2022- USD (0.65}
Dec 2022= USD {0.18}
From the above trend the future crack spread trend is highly unattractive with low yield & negative yield loh!
A reasonable yield crack spread should be around USD 4 mah!
This mean Prtron future 12 mths for 31-12-2022 performance will not exceed profit of Rm 289m or EPS Rm 1.07!
Whereas HRC 31-12-2022 future 12 mths performance will not report better result of loss rm 475m or loss of Rm 1.58 per share loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 22:59 | Report Abuse
The most question for those people who invest in hengyuan is to ask whether the derivative executed are actually a faked device to siphon money from the company loh ?
The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!
The red flags can be seen by;
1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!
If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!
Be extremely very careful on hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 22:59 | Report Abuse
Let Raider summarised hengyuan position loh!
1.HRC Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. HRC 6mts 30-6-2022
1a.Profit/{loss} attributable to shareholder............Rm 667m
1b. Profit/{loss? comprehensive to shareholder...Rm {412}m
number of shares Rm 300m
1a. Eps Rm 2.22
1b Eps Rm {1.37}
Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 714m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm (475m}
2a, EPS Rm Rm 2.38
2b. Eps Rm {1.58}
Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!
If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!
Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!
Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 22:59 | Report Abuse
Do not get kon loh!
Let Raider summarised Petron & hengyuan position loh!
1.Petron Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. Pet 6mts 30-6-2022
1a.Profit attributable to shareholder............Rm 183m
1b. Profit comprehensive to shareholder...Rm 183m
number of shares Rm 270m
1a. Eps Rm 0.68
1b Eps Rm 0.68
Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 289m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm 289m
2a, EPS Rm Rm 1.07
2b. Eps Rm 1.07
Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 22:57 | Report Abuse
The most question for those people who invest in hengyuan is to ask whether the derivative executed are actually a faked device to siphon money from the company loh ?
The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!
The red flags can be seen by;
1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!
If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!
Be extremely very careful on hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 22:52 | Report Abuse
Let Raider summarised hengyuan position loh!
1.HRC Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. HRC 6mts 30-6-2022
1a.Profit/{loss} attributable to shareholder............Rm 667m
1b. Profit/{loss? comprehensive to shareholder...Rm {412}m
number of shares Rm 300m
1a. Eps Rm 2.22
1b Eps Rm {1.37}
Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 714m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm (475m}
2a, EPS Rm Rm 2.38
2b. Eps Rm {1.58}
Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!
If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!
Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!
Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 22:37 | Report Abuse
Do not get kon loh!
Let Raider summarised Petron & hengyuan position loh!
1.Petron Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. Pet 6mts 30-6-2022
1a.Profit attributable to shareholder............Rm 183m
1b. Profit comprehensive to shareholder...Rm 183m
number of shares Rm 270m
1a. Eps Rm 0.68
1b Eps Rm 0.68
Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 289m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm 289m
2a, EPS Rm Rm 1.07
2b. Eps Rm 1.07
Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 11:32 | Report Abuse
Raider cannot simply say loh!
Just be careful & be very suspicious & careful of hengyuan owner & management loh!
Stock
2022-09-02 11:26 | Report Abuse
The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!
The red flags can be seen by;
1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!
If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!
Be extremely very careful on hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-08-31 12:43 | Report Abuse
Another magic the management play on your eye loh!
Instead of taking the hedging losses against the retained profit & P&L, management disguise adjust the losses against the reserves loh!
This to manipulate the EPS mah!
Lu tau boh ?
Posted by King_trader_shadow > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse
stockraider
Since you mentioned the balance sheet has issue and it should reflected the other way round.
Maybe you could enlighten me, as you mentioned earlier the PAT reflected in the QR is not entire profit and loss which they had excluded the cash flow hedge reserve and cost of hedging reserve with an amount of RM 1.079 billion, where as as reflected only 0.667 billion and EPS is around RM2.2.
Why in the later page it written the total capital and reserve is around 1.57 billion after the deduction from the hedging? Could you explain me this?
Stock
2022-08-31 12:39 | Report Abuse
Remember this loh!
If it is really true owner Hengyuan siphoning using derivative losses.....then hengyuan is dead duck loh!
Why Raider are so against Hengyuan leh ??
The key point is its consistent enormous derivative losses mah !!
The key question to ask is, why Hengyuan have such a huge derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion compare a small manageable loss at Petron leh ??
The risk at hengyuan has the following possibility loh!
1. The enormous derivative losses of hengyuan are due management/owner deliberate disguise attempt to siphon cash out of hengyuan thru hedging disguise losses loh!
2. It could be genuine loss, but due to poor & risk management of hengyuan that resulted this uncontrol huge losses mah!
Both scenario are equally very bad for hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-08-31 12:36 | Report Abuse
Shell would not bankrupt....but Hengyuan may....with its high leverage of Rm 2.8Billion or Rm 9.80 borrowing per hengyuan share loh!
Furthermore Hengyuan is losing alot of money from its derivative gambling mah!
Lu tau boh ?
Stock
2022-08-31 12:33 | Report Abuse
No need lah!
Raider just want to save innocent here from getting kon mah!
Posted by tehka > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Haiyah raider, no need post long long here mah!
Raider post long long also can convince no one mah!
If raider very confident Hengyuan is con profit, tomorrow raider mah go all in IDSS short loh!
Stock
2022-08-31 12:30 | Report Abuse
This 3iii is silly loh!
Tsh is not Rm 2.00 or Rm 1.80 mah!
It is at Rm 1.11 extremely undervalue & price is creeping up & the insiders managing director is still buying like no tomorrow mah!
Lu tau boh ?
Stock
2022-08-31 12:23 | Report Abuse
Thats why Airasia bankrupt mah!
Lu tau boh ??
Always learn from lesson loh!
Posted by Amoneymous > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Awesome QR!
Hedging is normal for companies rely heavily on commodities.
Air Asia also hedging on oil price.
Why keep harping on hedging accounting.
Is been the same practice for few years and account audited.
As long as no cooperate exercise like keep on private placement and right issue. Changing auditor and directors (like the snakeba).
Making money hard cash from operating profit.
As for high gearing. It is normal for oil and gas industry.
I dont see any red flag here.
Stock
2022-08-31 12:22 | Report Abuse
Hengyuan balance sheet is in trouble with borrowing exceeding Rm 2.8 billion or Rm 9.80 borrowing per hengyuan share loh!
Stock
2022-08-31 12:20 | Report Abuse
U R behind Rm 400m losses.....u want to catch up & turn into huge profit.....not so easy mah!
Remember this loh;
Do not be naive loh!
Hengyuan although reported more than Rm 600m in profit in Q2, but its unrealized mark to mkt losses exceed Rm 1 billion mah!
The net effect is hengyuan is losing more than Rm 400m for q2 loh!
Please do not ignore effect like it is nothing loh...it is like u running a race & u r really behind by Rm 400m loh!
Some people will say.....this will catch up in Q3....but question is there may be possibility of falling further behind....bcos the future crack spread has fallen towards USD 3 to 4 level mah!
Hengyuan investors....face enormous challenges....beside need to catch up....with enormous net loss of Rm 400m or loss of Rm 1.10 per share....its future crack spread margin has fallen behind drastically loh!
Investors....are advice to exercise caution & preferably take profit whenever u can, if u like this industry better to switch to Petron, that has actually shown a better positive result of eps above Rm 0.60....despite also reporting hedging losses but it is overcome by prudent & efficient management in managing its risk loh!
Posted by Primeinvestor > 26 seconds ago | Report Abuse
stockraider wanna buy cheap, lol, in the past every derivative loss will turn to gains when spread goes down, haha u can check 2018 and 2020 yourself, aiya all these sour ppl create opportunity for u to buy cheap, let them sing song lor =p
News & Blogs
2022-08-31 12:16 | Report Abuse
Do not be fool loh!
This tax are not paid mah! It is just a provision for tax todate mah!
Remember there is Derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion....once this derivative losses are settled....hengyuan profit will be minimal thus actual tax will be very low loh!
U see the benefit of this disguise hedging losses....is that huge fund can be siphon from hengyuan and the same time the tax payout will be low loh!
Those who suffer will be hengyuan minority shareholders & creditors loh!
Posted by Sharewire > 24 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Reminder hengyuan pay tax 200million just to be fake.!
Bad actor claim!
News & Blogs
2022-08-31 12:16 | Report Abuse
U see hengyuan reported EPS exceeding Rm 2.00.....but actually the actual net losses at hengyuan net of derivative losses is exceeding rm 1.00 mah!
To catch naive investors to chae.....who do not look in detail....Hengyuan try to catch these people...by declaring dividend of 10 sen.....in and attempt to entice the ignorance loh!
Hengyuan balance sheet is in trouble with borrowing exceeding Rm 2.8 billion or Rm 9.80 borrowing per hengyuan share loh!
This high leverage is risky loh.....the actual losses exceeded Rm 400m for q2 mah!
Posted by Johnzhang > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse
HY pay 10sen 1st interim dividend leh.
Petron no interim dividend leh.
News & Blogs
2022-08-31 12:15 | Report Abuse
Why Raider are so against Hengyuan leh ??
The key point is its consistent enormous derivative losses mah !!
The key question to ask is, why Hengyuan have such a huge derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion compare a small manageable loss at Petron leh ??
The risk at hengyuan has the following possibility loh!
1. The enormous derivative losses of hengyuan are due management/owner deliberate disguise attempt to siphon cash out of hengyuan thru hedging disguise losses loh!
2. It could be genuine loss, but due to poor & risk management of hengyuan that resulted this uncontrol huge losses mah!
Both scenario are equally very bad for hengyuan loh!
U just imagine lah! If hengyuan has done nothing to hedge in Q2.....it could have make more than rm 600m.....but bcos it wanted to hedge it loss more than rm 400m loh!
This type of situation should not happen loh....it is a bad gambling mentality shown in hengyuan mah!
At Petron.....the hedging is moderate & manageable despite reporting a hedging losses...the company turn in net profit with genuine eps exceeding 60 sen in q2 loh!
The management of Petron are rational & dependable, unlike gambling like type of attitude of the management in hengyuan mah!
News & Blogs
2022-08-31 12:15 | Report Abuse
Do not be naive loh!
Hengyuan although reported more than Rm 600m in profit in Q2, but its unrealized mark to mkt losses exceed Rm 1 billion mah!
The net effect is hengyuan is losing more than Rm 400m for q2 loh!
Please do not ignore effect like it is nothing loh...it is like u running a race & u r really behind by Rm 400m loh!
Some people will say.....this will catch up in Q3....but question is there may be possibility of falling further behind....bcos the future crack spread has fallen towards USD 3 to 4 level mah!
Hengyuan investors....face enormous challenges....beside need to catch up....with enormous net loss of Rm 400m or loss of Rm 1.10 per share....its future crack spread margin has fallen behind drastically loh!
Investors....are advice to exercise caution & preferably take profit whenever u can, if u like this industry better to switch to Petron, that has actually shown a better positive result of eps above Rm 0.60....despite also reporting hedging losses but it is overcome by prudent & efficient management in managing its risk loh!
Stock
2022-08-31 12:12 | Report Abuse
Do not be fool loh!
This tax are not paid mah! It is just a provision for tax todate mah!
Remember there is Derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion....once this derivative losses are settled....hengyuan profit will be minimal thus actual tax will be very low loh!
U see the benefit of this disguise hedging losses....is that huge fund can be siphon from hengyuan and the same time the tax payout will be low loh!
Those who suffer will be hengyuan minority shareholders & creditors loh!
Posted by Sharewire > 24 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Reminder hengyuan pay tax 200million just to be fake.!
Bad actor claim!
Stock
2022-08-31 12:06 | Report Abuse
Do not be fool loh!
This tax are not paid mah! It is just a provision for tax todate mah!
Remember there is Derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion....once this derivative losses are settled....hengyuan profit will be minimal thus actual tax will be very low loh!
U see the benefit of this disguise hedging losses....is that huge fund can be siphon from hengyuan and the same time the tax payout will be low loh!
Those who suffer will be hengyuan minority shareholders & creditors loh!
Posted by Sharewire > 24 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Reminder hengyuan pay tax 200million just to be fake.!
Bad actor claim!
Stock
2022-08-31 11:57 | Report Abuse
Hengyuan is high kon risk mah!
Why Raider are so against Hengyuan leh ??
The key point is its consistent enormous derivative losses mah !!
The key question to ask is, why Hengyuan have such a huge derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion compare a small manageable loss at Petron leh ??
The risk at hengyuan has the following possibility loh!
1. The enormous derivative losses of hengyuan are due management/owner deliberate disguise attempt to siphon cash out of hengyuan thru hedging disguise losses loh!
2. It could be genuine loss, but due to poor & risk management of hengyuan that resulted this uncontrol huge losses mah!
Both scenario are equally very bad for hengyuan loh!
Stock
2022-08-31 11:53 | Report Abuse
It is not spamming loh!
The losses of Hengyuan in Q2 exceeding Rm 400m after taking into hedging losses of Rm 1 billion is really genuine, it is back by fact & figure and cannot escape the intelligent eye mah!
Posted by Tantoro > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse
Johnzhang I tend to agree with you. There are a total of 16 CWs remain outstanding. Total unit adds up to 1.130 bil CW and average excercise price is $6.16 and average conversion ratio is 9.50.
If HY shot up to $15, IBs collective theoritical loss is 1,130,000,000 unit x(($15 - $6.16)/9.50)
=$1,051494,737 ie $1.05 billion !!!
IBs die die employing naysayers to spam fake news, create doubt to scare off buying interest on one hand and to do IDSS to depress price which is quite easy in the absence of buying interest yet.
----------------------------
Posted by BoomBerg > 7 hours ago | Report Abuse
Beware of Ib lackey pouring negative info so that price won’t go up
Or else their cw will make them lost their pants off
31/08/2022 9:28 AM
Totally agree
Stock
2022-08-31 11:48 | Report Abuse
U see hengyuan reported EPS exceeding Rm 2.00.....but actually the actual net losses at hengyuan net of derivative losses is exceeding rm 1.00 per share mah!
To catch naive investors to chase.....who do not look in detail....Hengyuan try to catch these people...by declaring dividend of 10 sen.....in and attempt to entice the ignorance loh!
Hengyuan balance sheet is in trouble with borrowing exceeding Rm 2.8 billion or Rm 9.80 borrowing per hengyuan share loh!
This high leverage is risky loh.....the actual losses exceeded Rm 400m for q2 mah!
Posted by Johnzhang > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse
HY pay 10sen 1st interim dividend leh.
Petron no interim dividend leh.
Stock
2022-08-31 11:47 | Report Abuse
U see hengyuan reported EPS exceeding Rm 2.00.....but actually the actual net losses at hengyuan net of derivative losses is exceeding rm 1.00 mah!
To catch naive investors to chae.....who do not look in detail....Hengyuan try to catch these people...by declaring dividend of 10 sen.....in and attempt to entice the ignorance loh!
Hengyuan balance sheet is in trouble with borrowing exceeding Rm 2.8 billion or Rm 9.80 borrowing per hengyuan share loh!
This high leverage is risky loh.....the actual losses exceeded Rm 400m for q2 mah!
Posted by Johnzhang > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse
HY pay 10sen 1st interim dividend leh.
Petron no interim dividend leh.
Stock
2022-08-31 11:35 | Report Abuse
Why Raider are so against Hengyuan leh ??
The key point is its consistent enormous derivative losses mah !!
The key question to ask is, why Hengyuan have such a huge derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion compare a small manageable loss at Petron leh ??
The risk at hengyuan has the following possibility loh!
1. The enormous derivative losses of hengyuan are due management/owner deliberate disguise attempt to siphon cash out of hengyuan thru hedging disguise losses loh!
2. It could be genuine loss, but due to poor & risk management of hengyuan that resulted this uncontrol huge losses mah!
Both scenario are equally very bad for hengyuan loh!
U just imagine lah! If hengyuan has done nothing to hedge in Q2.....it could have make more than rm 600m.....but bcos it wanted to hedge it loss more than rm 400m loh!
This type of situation should not happen loh....it is a bad gambling mentality shown in hengyuan mah!
At Petron.....the hedging is moderate & manageable despite reporting a hedging losses...the company turn in net profit with genuine eps exceeding 60 sen in q2 loh!
The management of Petron are rational & dependable, unlike gambling like type of attitude of the management in hengyuan mah!
Stock
2022-08-31 11:34 | Report Abuse
Do not be naive loh!
Hengyuan although reported more than Rm 600m in profit in Q2, but its unrealized mark to mkt losses exceed Rm 1 billion mah!
The net effect is hengyuan is losing more than Rm 400m for q2 loh!
Please do not ignore effect like it is nothing loh...it is like u running a race & u r really behind by Rm 400m loh!
Some people will say.....this will catch up in Q3....but question is there may be possibility of falling further behind....bcos the future crack spread has fallen towards USD 3 to 4 level mah!
Hengyuan investors....face enormous challenges....beside need to catch up....with enormous net loss of Rm 400m or loss of Rm 1.10 per share....its future crack spread margin has fallen behind drastically loh!
Investors....are advice to exercise caution & preferably take profit whenever u can, if u like this industry better to switch to Petron, that has actually shown a better positive result of eps above Rm 0.60....despite also reporting hedging losses but it is overcome by prudent & efficient management in managing its risk loh!
Stock
2022-08-31 11:33 | Report Abuse
Why Raider are so against Hengyuan leh ??
The key point is its consistent enormous derivative losses mah !!
The key question to ask is, why Hengyuan have such a huge derivative losses of more than Rm 1 billion compare a small manageable loss at Petron leh ??
The risk at hengyuan has the following possibility loh!
1. The enormous derivative losses of hengyuan are due management/owner deliberate disguise attempt to siphon cash out of hengyuan thru hedging disguise losses loh!
2. It could be genuine loss, but due to poor & risk management of hengyuan that resulted this uncontrol huge losses mah!
Both scenario are equally very bad for hengyuan loh!
U just imagine lah! If hengyuan has done nothing to hedge in Q2.....it could have make more than rm 600m.....but bcos it wanted to hedge it loss more than rm 400m loh!
This type of situation should not happen loh....it is a bad gambling mentality shown in hengyuan mah!
At Petron.....the hedging is moderate & manageable despite reporting a hedging losses...the company turn in net profit with genuine eps exceeding 60 sen in q2 loh!
The management of Petron are rational & dependable, unlike gambling like type of attitude of the management in hengyuan mah!
Stock
2022-08-31 11:14 | Report Abuse
Do not be naive loh!
Hengyuan although reported more than Rm 600m in profit in Q2, but its unrealized mark to mkt losses exceed Rm 1 billion mah!
The net effect is hengyuan is losing more than Rm 400m for q2 loh!
Please do not ignore effect like it is nothing loh...it is like u running a race & u r really behind by Rm 400m loh!
Some people will say.....this will catch up in Q3....but question is there may be possibility of falling further behind....bcos the future crack spread has fallen towards USD 3 to 4 level mah!
Hengyuan investors....face enormous challenges....beside need to catch up....with enormous net loss of Rm 400m or loss of Rm 1.10 per share....its future crack spread margin has fallen behind drastically loh!
Investors....are advice to exercise caution & preferably take profit whenever u can, if u like this industry better to switch to Petron, that has actually shown a better positive result of eps above Rm 0.60....despite also reporting hedging losses but it is overcome by prudent & efficient management in managing its risk loh!
Stock
2022-08-30 23:22 | Report Abuse
Petron treatment is correct but not Hengyuan mah!
U must account for all your mark to market losses...b4 u derive your reporting profit mah!
Posted by hng33 > 31 seconds ago | Report Abuse
If you have hedging contract valid for 1 year, you need to account for fluctuations in hedging position loss/gain in your book value/nta.
It is only you opt for early settlement or end of 1 year contract settlement, record realize gain or loss in profit /loss account.
Stock
2022-08-30 23:19 | Report Abuse
Dear John,
Explain as below loh;
For Hengyuan accounting reporting...To put it in proper perspective base on share investment reporting is that all realised share disposal profit u book in the account but all your existing mark to market losses u just ignore loh!
This is exactly like what Philip is claiming.....base on the false belief, that he make alot of monies by ignoring all mark to market losses loh!
Posted by Johnzhang > 12 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Dear Stockraider,
Are you sure you understood the accounting treatment for derivatives before you join others casting doubts about HY's financials ??
As little as I understand, the $1,079,600,000 derivative LOSSES are temporary fair value change for outstanding contracts and park as other comprehensive expense in the income statement until the actual sales/transactions occur and it will be transferred to the income statement to offset the actual GAINS on these transactions. Please note the key words are derivative LOSSES match to GAINS on the transaction when they occur.
That means we can expect next qtr sales to generate extraordinary GP than spot market rate and the extraordinary GP shall offset the temporary derivative losses. I believe HY will still do very very well in Q3.
Stock
2022-08-30 23:13 | Report Abuse
Bjcorp make a maiden profit mah!
BJCORP theme song
You can win if you want
If you want it you will win
On your way you will see
That life is more than fantasy
Take my hand follow me
And your feelings will be right
Hold me tight
Stock
2022-08-30 23:11 | Report Abuse
For Hengyuan accounting reporting...To put it in proper perspective base on share investment reporting is that all realised share disposal profit u book in the account but all your existing mark to market losses u just ignore loh!
This is exactly like what Philip is claiming.....base on the false belief that he make alot of monies by ignoring all mark to market losses loh!
Posted by hng33 > 25 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Hedging position have time period, hengyuan can make settlement earlier if hedging is in favour.
Therefore, Q2 hedging loss RM 1 billion is unfavourable to make settlement earlier as crude oil in Q2 trade as high as USD 135.
The hedging loss RM 1 billion is not classified in P&L as hedging is not reach settlement, just alike your stock portfolio now is in paper loss but you opt not to sell to realize loss, but in paper, your portfolio wealth have show decrease in NTA.
You can afford to wait just like hengyuan, until hedging position is in favor position like nect Q3, crude oil already decreade significantly from USD 135 to current USD 100, hedging position now become reverdal from loss RM 1 billion to gain, hengyuan can opt to settle hedging positon just alike you opt your cover short position in your stick portfolio. Once settlement reached, it will reflects in P&L
Stock
2022-08-30 23:01 | Report Abuse
Betul loh!
Petron is really making monies but not Hengyuan mah!
Posted by AzlanIshtiqal > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Saya tunggu Petronm naik ke harga RM6 lagi
Stock
2022-08-30 22:59 | Report Abuse
Correct loh!
They are already displaying heavy losses mah!
If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!
Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!
The dividend 10 sen...is use to entice naive investor....to get them to think...Hengyuan is highly profitable in this QTR with EPS of Rm 2.22 per share profit mah!
They want to have benefit of both world which is siphon plus killing off naive investors by getting them to buy hengyuan mah!
Stock
2022-08-30 22:51 | Report Abuse
Lu tau boh ?
Computation of profit for taxation is different from KLSE profit reporting mah!
Thus even current high profit reported by Hengyuan....it will not to pay high tax....bcos when tax computation, they will submit another figure loh!
Actually base on actual current scenario todate....Hengyuan is reporting a loss loh!
Posted by Sharewire > 30 seconds ago | Report Abuse
You say Chinamen shiphoned money to china and don't want to pay more tax.
Why on earth they want to jackup profit and pay higher tax some more.Doesnt make sense!
Stock
2022-08-30 22:44 | Report Abuse
Do not get kon by how they classify loh!
It is just an excuse for kon....by classifying the derivative mah!
The correct treatment is as follows loh:
If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!
Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!
News & Blogs
2022-08-30 22:41 | Report Abuse
Warisan will join whatever winning party loh! Just like last time GE14 Election mah!
Warisan is not a reliable partner unlike GPS loh!
Stock
2022-08-30 22:39 | Report Abuse
Yes Hengyuan propose a dividend of 10 sen or Rm 30m but its borrowing balloned to Rm 2,805M or Rm 9.35 per hengyuan share loh!
Be very careful loh!
Do not get manipulated mah!
Posted by beinvested > 12 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Got dividend also
Stock
2022-08-30 22:33 | Report Abuse
Very important mah!
Hengyuan should be reporting a loss of Rm 1.37 per share instead of profit of Rm 2.22 per share mah!
Posted by sense maker > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse
What’s there to argue on classification of profits and losses of different items? They all flow down invariably to net assets aka shareholders’ fund, regardless. RM1.27 per share of net assets have left the company. It’s a huge net loss suffered by the company during the quarter.
General
2022-08-30 22:30 | Report Abuse
Actually if UMNO & BN can use Petronas monies to get Public support....so can PH or PN to give the same benefit to rakyat mah!
The Monies belong to MSIA.....whoever is the GOVT....can use this fund to benefit the rakyat mah!
However the advantage of PH or PN v BN/UMNO......is the former will have far less corruption mah!
Posted by izoklse > 43 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Enough already additional fund from PETRONAS for Government to conduct GE15
https://klse.i3investor.com/web/blog/detail/savemalaysia/2022-08-30-st...
Stock
2022-08-30 22:23 | Report Abuse
Please do not get kon by Hengyuan manipulative Accounts loh!
Actually Hengyuan is in deep trouble loh!
Correctloh....!!
This time mike ....talk some sense loh!
If Hengyuan use the same way of recognising profit like Petron, it would have reported a loss of Rm 412m instead of rm 667m profit mah! That means q2 HRC should report an EPS loss of Rm 1.37 instead of positive eps of Rm 2.22 loh!
Why Petron treatment is the correct approach leh ?
The hedging losses of Rm 1,078M should not classified as a comprehensive income & expenses, it should flow to Profit & Loss Account mah!
Why leh ?? Hedging is mean to smooth out the earning volatility of business, thus the hedging derivative impact should be matched against the Profit & Loss account....thus the computation of EPS should be amended loh!
Posted by Mikecyc > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse
Haha why ah NTA is dropped ??
AS AT END OF CURRENT QUARTER
AS AT PRECEDING FINANCIAL YEAR END
7
Net assets per share attributable to ordinary equity holders of the parent ($$)
5.2546
6.8399
Blog: Investors ignored Hengyuan's fantastic profit - Koon Yew Yin
2022-09-02 23:23 | Report Abuse
Very important u should ask what is the current crack spread as at 2-9-2022?
sept 2022- USD 0.80
0ct 2022 - USD (0.70}
Nov 2022- USD (0.65}
Dec 2022= USD {0.18}
From the above trend the future crack spread trend is highly unattractive with low yield & negative yield loh!
A reasonable yield crack spread should be around USD 4 mah!
This mean Prtron future 12 mths for 31-12-2022 performance will not exceed profit of Rm 289m or EPS Rm 1.07!
Whereas HRC 31-12-2022 future 12 mths performance will not report better result of loss rm 475m or loss of Rm 1.58 per share loh!