The fear is still high risk of siphoning money thru derivative loh!

The fear is still high risk of siphoning money thru derivative loh!

The fear is still high risk of siphoning money thru derivative loh!

The fear is still high risk of siphoning money loh!

Yes if this is spend on capex....this will appear in the balance sheet & the nta per share will not disappear from Rm 9.90 per share to Rm 5.25 per share now mah!

It is likely disappear due to hedging losses loh!

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider know how much Capex is needed to upgrade refinery to produce:
EURO 4M Petrol
EURO 5 DIESEL

Both Petron and HRC already done the Capex for upgrading and this year onward will have more cash for dividend.

Lu tau boh ?

Yes if this is spend on capex....this will appear in the balance sheet & the nta per share will not disappear from Rm 9.90 per share to Rm 5.25 per share now mah!

It is likely disappear due to hedging losses loh!

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider know how much Capex is needed to upgrade refinery to produce:
EURO 4M Petrol
EURO 5 DIESEL

Both Petron and HRC already done the Capex for upgrading and this year onward will have more cash for dividend.

Lu tau boh ?

Yes if this is spend on capex....this will appear in the balance sheet & the nta per share will not disappear from Rm 9.90 per share to Rm 5.25 per share now mah!

It is likely disappear due to hedging losses loh!

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider know how much Capex is needed to upgrade refinery to produce:
EURO 4M Petrol
EURO 5 DIESEL

Both Petron and HRC already done the Capex for upgrading and this year onward will have more cash for dividend.

Lu tau boh ?

Yes if this is spend on capex....this will appear in the balance sheet & the nta per share will not disappear from Rm 9.90 per share to Rm 5.25 per share now mah!

It is likely disappear due to hedging losses loh!

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider know how much Capex is needed to upgrade refinery to produce:
EURO 4M Petrol
EURO 5 DIESEL

Both Petron and HRC already done the Capex for upgrading and this year onward will have more cash for dividend.

Lu tau boh ?

The hedging losses may not reverse loh!

Bcos the instrument use is term as hedging....but it could be speculative if use wrongly instead of hedging mah!

The above scenario is bad....it could even be even worse....if it is fake siphoning instrument loh!

No one will know loh....bcos the disclosure is opaque....they just disclose as hedging losses...why loss & how loss & how big is the position & how long is unanswered.........unless a full forensic audit is done on this loh!

The hedging losses may not reverse loh!

Bcos the instrument use is term as hedging....but it could be speculative if use wrongly instead of hedging mah!

The above scenario is bad....it could even be even worse....if it is fake siphoning instrument loh!

No one will know loh....bcos the disclosure is opaque....they just disclose as hedging losses...why loss & how loss & how big is the position & how long is unanswered.........unless a full forensic audit is done on this loh!

ok lah!

I respect that loh!

Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Correctloh....culmulative eps of Rm 6.64 from 2017 to 2022 v div Rm 0.16 loh!

Thus just earnings from 2017 to 2022 net off dividend is Rm 6.54 per share mah!
This exclude its existing nta of Rm 3.36 per share in 31-12-2016
If u include this 2016 figure.....it will be Rm 9.9 per share loh!

The current NTA of Hengyuan per share is only rm 5.25 per share mah!
Compare to Rm 9.90 per share above loh!

That means Rm 9.90 minus Rm 5.25 per share = Rm 4.65 per share in which a big part of this is due to suspect siphoning from derivative in the form of derivative losses loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

HY's past year EPS

FY 2017 EPS RM3+
FY 2018 EPS Rm0.10+
FY 2019 EPS RM0.11+
FY 2020 EPS RM0.80+
FY 2021 EPS RM0.25+
FY 2022 (FH) EPS RM2.38+

VS

Div so far RM0.16

Correctloh....culmulative eps of Rm 6.64 from 2017 to 2022 v div Rm 0.16 loh!

Thus just earnings from 2017 to 2022 net off dividend is Rm 6.54 per share mah!
This exclude its existing nta of Rm 3.36 per share in 31-12-2016
If u include this 2016 figure.....it will be Rm 9.9 per share loh!

The current NTA of Hengyuan per share is only rm 5.25 per share mah!
Compare to Rm 9.90 per share above loh!

That means Rm 9.90 minus Rm 5.25 per share = Rm 4.65 per share in which a big part of this is due to suspect siphoning from derivative in the form of derivative losses loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

HY's past year EPS

FY 2017 EPS RM3+
FY 2018 EPS Rm0.10+
FY 2019 EPS RM0.11+
FY 2020 EPS RM0.80+
FY 2021 EPS RM0.25+
FY 2022 (FH) EPS RM2.38+

VS

Div so far RM0.16

Correctloh....culmulative eps of Rm 6.64 from 2017 to 2022 v div Rm 0.16 loh!

Thus just earnings from 2017 to 2022 net off dividend is Rm 6.54 per share mah!
This exclude its existing nta of Rm 3.36 per share in 31-12-2016
If u include this 2016 figure.....it will be Rm 9.9 per share loh!

The current NTA of Hengyuan per share is only rm 5.25 per share mah!
Compare to Rm 9.90 per share above loh!

That means Rm 9.90 minus Rm 5.25 per share = Rm 4.65 per share in which a big part of this is due to suspect siphoning from derivative in the form of derivative losses loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

HY's past year EPS

FY 2017 EPS RM3+
FY 2018 EPS Rm0.10+
FY 2019 EPS RM0.11+
FY 2020 EPS RM0.80+
FY 2021 EPS RM0.25+
FY 2022 (FH) EPS RM2.38+

VS

Div so far RM0.16

Correctloh....culmulative eps of Rm 6.64 from 2017 to 2022 v div Rm 0.16 loh!

Thus just earnings from 2017 to 2022 net off dividend is Rm 6.54 per share mah!
This exclude its existing nta of Rm 3.36 per share in 31-12-2016
If u include this 2016 figure.....it will be Rm 9.9 per share loh!

The current NTA of Hengyuan per share is only rm 5.25 per share mah!
Compare to Rm 9.90 per share above loh!

That means Rm 9.90 minus Rm 5.25 per share = Rm 4.65 per share in which a big part of this is due to suspect siphoning from derivative in the form of derivative losses loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

HY's past year EPS

FY 2017 EPS RM3+
FY 2018 EPS Rm0.10+
FY 2019 EPS RM0.11+
FY 2020 EPS RM0.80+
FY 2021 EPS RM0.25+
FY 2022 (FH) EPS RM2.38+

VS

Div so far RM0.16

They will divert & never answer u loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 8 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Can attend their AGM n ask where's the cash........

When got value & business got fundamental & management got integrity like Petron....when drop alot...u dare to buy more loh!

Not hengyuan loh....high risk of kon mah!

When kon happen....there are no value for the share mah!
Bcos u cannot value kon mah!

Posted by BobAxelrod > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Continuously dropping for 3 days after QR is still "insufficient" time to digest the goodness? Funds working with eyes closed?

stockraider

Value & quality will discover over time mah!

They already started siphoning mah....from gain of Rm 1.1b....now it is a loss of more than Rm 1.1b mah!

Do u know....more than Rm 2.2b....has just disappear ah from 2020 to 2022 todate now leh ?

Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider if HRC wanted to con you they can just siphon out realised fair value gain on derivative financial instruments of RM 1,124,316,000 in year 2020

They already started siphoning mah....from gain of Rm 1.1b....now it is a loss of more than Rm 1.1b mah!

Do u know....more than Rm 2.2b....has just disappear ah from 2020 to 2022 todate now leh ?

Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider if HRC wanted to con you they can just siphon out realised fair value gain on derivative financial instruments of RM 1,124,316,000 in year 2020

They already started siphoning mah....from gain of Rm 1.1b....now it is a loss of more than Rm 1.1b mah!

Do u know....more than Rm 2.2b....has just disappear ah from 2020 to 2022 todate now leh ?

Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider if HRC wanted to con you they can just siphon out realised fair value gain on derivative financial instruments of RM 1,124,316,000 in year 2020

Value & quality will discover over time mah!

Posted by BobAxelrod > 30 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Not correct. HY moved up higher, thus the sharper drop. But now only 10c apart.

Question remains...PetronM is so good and should be moving up and HY downwards. Not both dropping....yes?

They already started siphoning mah....from gain of Rm 1.1b....now it is a loss of more than Rm 1.1b mah!

Do u know....more than Rm 2.2b....has just disappear ah from 2020 to 2022 todate now leh ?

Posted by Sslee > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider if HRC wanted to con you they can just siphon out realised fair value gain on derivative financial instruments of RM 1,124,316,000 in year 2020

The front low ranking soldiers involve with charging the fort usually die 1st mah!

General Raider know this war strategy mah!

Posted by UlarSawa > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Haiyoh followers also can make mah. Not all the time will lose lah. As long dont greedy still can earn lah. Haiyoh. Correct?


stockraider

He got 1st mover advantage mah!

But his follower will suffer loh!

Posted by qqq3333 > 49 seconds ago | Report Abuse


I was told OTB is a TA comes first investor. He is also very discipline.

U think they will do that ??

If the objective is to kon loh?

Posted by stockraider > 49 minutes ago | Report Abuse

If siphoning money is true to my suspicion....then it will be bankrupted loh!

What obligation to shell if bankrupted leh ?

Lu tau boh ?

osted by qqq3333 > 43 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > 5 minutes ago | Report Abuse

The point is Hengyuan has Rm 2.8 billion loan to deal with besides the more than the Rm 1 billion in losses mah!

Posted by Sslee > 45 seconds ago | Report Abuse

sslee....................... people say crack spread negative, u jump in to buy HY.., even if small sums, ....................what were u thinking? just doesn't make sense.

I just point out the fact, if refining margin become negative HRC can just stop all the physical buying crude, refine it and selling the finished product to prevent physical negative margin (assume negative USD 2 per barrel)

And at the quarter end just report Zero revenues and purchased and PBT included refining margin derivative gain of: USD
Volume x hedge refining margin of [A - (-2 average physical margin for the quarter).
= USD V x (A+2)
If V is 6 million barrel
A is USD 15 per barrel
= USD 6,000,000 x 17
= USD 102,000,000
= USD

He got 1st mover advantage mah!

But his follower will suffer loh!

Posted by qqq3333 > 49 seconds ago | Report Abuse


I was told OTB is a TA comes first investor. He is also very discipline.
========


u believe otb? I got london bridge sell to u.

Secret lah!

Cannot tell mah!

Posted by CharlesT > 27 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Does Probability know HY's FC or accountants or auditors? Or any insider?

Lu tau boh ??

Already explain below mah!

A good investor should know Petron is better mah!
Posted by stockraider > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Only if u have realized the fundamental of Petron....u realized it should not be mah!

Petron beside having much better corporate governance....it has some of the attribute of petdag of resilence mah!

U need to do more research....to find the fundamental of Petron better loh!


osted by BobAxelrod > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Question remains......why is PetronM price dropping? PetronM's earning doesn't just depends on Refineries.

Forget the comparison with HY. Take it out. PetronM should be moving up and HY the other direction if stories are what they say they are.

Ahfah children already graduated from Australia loh!

Now no need to work so hard mah!

Posted by UlarSawa > 4 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Raider repented already mah. Now he is helping Ah Fah to invest in PetronM lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Correct or not ah ???

If u have really help uncle kyy to make so much money, he should have worshipped u mah!

Normal human nature mah!

Posted by OTB > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > 53 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Even they have a very solid EPS or cash RM1.50+ in their bank ac.....
U can ask KYY to have his advice if u want to verify so.
-------------
That is the problem KYY lost back all his profit I helped him to make in 2015.
KYY did not do his homework well.
He simply talks without facts and figures.

Only if u have realized the fundamental of Petron....u realized it should not be mah!

Petron beside having much better corporate governance....it has some of the attribute of petdag of resilence mah!

U need to do more research....to find the fundamental of Petron better loh!

Posted by qqq3333 > 9 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Posted by BobAxelrod > 16 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Both PetronM and HY prices are moving in tandem, are they not?
========

yes, they are.........and the common factor is negative crack spread. Not HY bankrupt.

Only if u have realized the fundamental of Petron....u realized it should not be mah!

Petron beside having much better corporate governance....it has some of the attribute of petdag of resilence mah!

U need to do more research....to find the fundamental of Petron better loh!

Posted by qqq3333 > 9 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Posted by BobAxelrod > 16 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Both PetronM and HY prices are moving in tandem, are they not?
========

yes, they are.........and the common factor is negative crack spread. Not HY bankrupt.

I thought OTB is also is shameless mah!

Bcos we are in the same boat that time loh!

Posted by OTB > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

I know that stockraider is a shameless liar since 2017 on his posting in Hengyuan.
He hid in Pudu market after the share price dropped.
I made million in Hengyuan in 2017, it is one of the stocks I made the most money in my life.
Never ever trusted stockraider.

A good investor never talk bad about other stock.
A good investor will make money quietly.
A good investor will not tell lies on any stock without facts and figures.
These are my slogans.

Pls do not simply attack sifu sslee personally lah!

He is a good guy mah!


Posted by Mikecyc > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Haha now I understood liaw why Ssllee is beloved Xingquin even he knew is in Account fraud .. saying he is worry if sold to those cannot afford… is delisted on September 2019 …

That time hengyuan was just new to raider mah!

No past record of kon mah!

Posted by tehka > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

In 2017, stockraider cone out all the Ah Fah Ah Moi, pudu vegetable seller story to goreng the stock. No talk about any Chinaman kon story

Haiyah....I think terrence 775 should post his agm notes here mah!

For good generous sharing mah!

Posted by LearnEveryday > 8 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Thanks a lot terence775 for your comprehensive AGM notes and reports! Learnt so much.

The fact is Hengyuan is losing billion from its hedging mah!

The fact is hengyuan is incurring billion of loan bcos of this huge hedging play loh!

All belong leno lah!

General Raider have 1.5 id.....that is Raider & General Raider loh!

Posted by Mikecyc > 33 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Haha Kon stockraider so fast flag report my post to Orange flag … many aka id ke :

Stock raider aka id :

1. gohku
2. BILLC
3. Koey
4. whistlebower99
5. thehoff
6. invest_malaysia
7. Diamond7
8. shareinvestor888
9. TheContrarian

People say Hengyuan is different from xinguan, bcos hengyuan operate in msia whereas xinguan is only listed in msia but business operations is in china mah!

But somehow....Hengyuan found a powerful instrument to kon....in the form of long term derivative loh!

Like that not much different....both also can kon loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 24 seconds ago | Report Abuse

His nephew was the Auditor of Xinquan then so he was very sure of the cash in bank balance of ard RM1.50+.

I think that's part of the reason SSLee bought Xinquan too.

Pardon me, when people gets elder they like to talk grandmother story.

Of course HY is not the same with Xinquan lah. Their petrol stations in Msia are all real one.

People say Hengyuan is different from xinguan, bcos hengyuan operate in msia whereas xinguan is only listed in msia but business operations is in china mah!



But somehow....Hengyuan found a powerful instrument to kon....in the form of long term derivative loh!

Like that not much different....both also can kon loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 24 seconds ago | Report Abuse

His nephew was the Auditor of Xinquan then so he was very sure of the cash in bank balance of ard RM1.50+.

I think that's part of the reason SSLee bought Xinquan too.

Pardon me, when people gets elder they like to talk grandmother story.

Of course HY is not the same with Xinquan lah. Their petrol stations in Msia are all real one.

This is true loh!

Not only that, he went to see xinguan & msport as well & give a fine report for both loh!

But both turn up bankrupt eventually mah!

This is cheap enough loh!

If siphoning money is true to my suspicion....then it will be bankrupted loh!

What obligation to shell if bankrupted leh ?

Lu tau boh ?

osted by qqq3333 > 43 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > 5 minutes ago | Report Abuse

The point is Hengyuan has Rm 2.8 billion loan to deal with besides the more than the Rm 1 billion in losses mah!

========

HY is not at bankrupcy risk, at least not yet .............................. but HY still got a lot of obligations to Shell /malaysian government to upgrade its facilities.

Throw away lah!

Why keep all these rubbish leh ?

It is also outdated mah!

U Jump into River Klang maybe better than keeping all these rubbish loh!

Posted by Mikecyc > 42 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Haha Kon stockraider I still hv the copies of yr n Callvin posts in Insas WB …

And also yr previous post replied me on Insas WB so mad n angry … hahahaha

Raider like your pick on ABMB & Myeg loh!

Better switch to Sapnrg b4 too late loh!

No wayang lah!

Just lucky escape mah!

Posted by Mikecyc > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Haha Kon stockraider wayang with Callvin in Insas WB just for invested RM 5000 … pitiful loh …