@Oxytocin because TALIWORKS cash flow from concession business

Accounting profits =/= Net cash flows

change.org is useless for anything to do with Malaysia la

@Asia88 add back all the dividends collected to assess overall profitability of holding the stock

Share with you guys what it means to work with "Top 4" audit firms.

Technically, an auditor's job is to audit your accounts, not do your accounts.

However, most if not all topmost audit firms, they are so rigid in that they have an almost standard format of audited accounts that they want. Sampai some specifically want it to be in MS Word. You do in Excel, you do in your format, even though u comply with accounting standards, they don't want. They want you to do EXACTLY in their template.

Whereas for smaller or medium-sized firms, client do their own account, in their own format, janji comply with standards, they just audit, and sign off.

Top 4? Sampah. Rigid and bodoh.

MCO smoked more

83? Cannot la, 93 boleh la

I still think people will eventually stick to traditional cigarettes

There's nothing like lighting up a cigarette and see it burn down

@Begineer you go calculate the dividend yield yourself lo

How do you guys find this result? Steady, but dividend reduced for 2 consecutive quarters. Hmm...

Takeover aborted ka? Market seems to react like it

Wayang ke?

hahaha Kenanga upgaded TP

Hi auditor! Long time no c

I actually expected only 20 sen. 24 sen is a big surprise

Waiting for auditor consultant to give his words

Good enough

Never ASSuME things.

So far all we have are allegations.

And even a Serba outsider, but industry insider like me can counter them all with logical explanations.

When you ASSuMe things, you become bodoh.

UP announced wonderful Q2 results:

https://disclosure.bursamalaysia.com/FileAccess/apbursaweb/download?id=214862&name=EA_FR_ATTACHMENTS

Jjchan thank you for your analysis

Just accumulate, its undervalued now

PE high is not important

BATM is more a trading co than a manufacturing co now, as all ciggies are imported now

It can distribute almost 100% of its earnings as dividends

Hence we should value BATM on dividend yield

The downside risk now is like near zero.

1 shark = thousands of bilis

Now Serba is supported by thousands of bilis

MCO/FMCO hits the rakyat bad, yes. But, many are still doing okay.

Let's say a few hundred, or even a few thousand bilis have to sell their Serba holdings. How much impact can that be?

But, once the audit issue sees some positive light, sharks and institutions will return.

Just 1 shark alone good enough to move up Serba

Risk vs Reward

U tell me la

A has expertise in X field
B has expertise in Y field

A and B have common directors

A & B JV together to tender for a government job

AB JV once got the job, subcontract to A and B

A subcontract to its wholly-owned subsidiary, A2

Of course you will find the name of the same director(s) in
A
B
AB JV
A2

Problem? This is common.

@Profit77 +100

That was exactly what I have been saying.

Some managers/bosses would sit down nicely to work out with the auditor, even if the auditor was wrong and/or rude.

Some managers/bosses, even if the auditor was correct, if the way of asking/questioning was wrong/improper, they will show them the door.

@getonwithit by right with all the MCO/FMCO/EMCO, smuggling should not be possible.

If smuggling of these illicit/contraband ciggies is possible, then that explains how all those foreign variants of Covid-19 reach our shores.

Yala, China is using their own vaccine, yet they are doing fine now.

In the Western world, there is continuous media war over Pfizer, Astrazeneca etc. It's all about the money.

Just take whatever vaxx is available to you, and most importantly continue to observe physical distancing and mask wear SOP until there is mass immunity.

The West is too complacent in doing away with mask requirement and distancing rules too fast, too soon.

Well you know, ang moh ma. They always think they're the best, the invincible. Let them die la.

Until and unless Serba is proven guilty, I refuse to talk bad of it.

So far all of the "crimes" that it is accused of, as an industry person, I have logical explanations for.

"Kalau tak pasti, jangan kongsi"

Yes! UP is a wonderfully managed company

@unomi12 ya la

If client level, it could be
Ultimate client > Ali Baba > Serba

If customer level, it could be
Serba > Ali Baba > Vendors/Sub Contractors who are actually doing the work

No Ali Baba, no contract. Simple as that. You want the contract, you must involve the Ali Baba, give them a cut of the $$$.

People who have actual working experience in big projects esp those that involve governments and GLCs will find this perfectly normal occurences.

Hint - they could be either proxy to royalties, crony company, and/or empty shell company of politicians or civil servants

Yet, they are REAL entities, doing real jobs, or maybe Ali Babas. But, Ali Babas are also real, just that they take a cut of the contract and then sub-contract to others. It doesn't in any way make them, "fictitious". It's all legitimate contracts, business deals.

If this is happening in Malaysia, what makes you think they cannot happen in the Middle East and rest of the world?

Welcome to the real world, people.

Not all businesses have to maintain an online presence, unless they are public-listed entities.

Malaysian GLCs have plenty of vendors and sub cons that you cannot find any info on them apart from SSM info and maybe an office address.

Yet it doesn't in any way make them, "fake".

This is the principle of "buy things that people hate at that moment"

Exactly 7chewe

Chase those stocks that are already hot, yea you may taste instant profit, but when things turnaround, your losses can be big

Serba is now basically valued at BELOW breakup i.e. company bankrupt valuation. The upside potential is limitless

Money is made by buying stocks that no one wanted at that moment.

Money is made by buying stocks near their bottom.

Money is made in the waiting, not in the chasing.

Today Friday can maintain the gain from yesterday

Kira not bad la. A good foundation for next week

^ tu baru fanbois

Aku bukan fanbois ok

I talk facts and industry practices

When you are investing using your own money, you can trust your instincts, trust your conscience, and so on.

When you are EPF, KWAP etc, you are investing, managing other people's money. Hence there are set rules to govern their investment strategy, on what to buy and what to sell.

EPF, like most institutional investors, have rules governing their investments.

If there are POTENTIAL red flags, POTENTIAL governance issues, they have to liquidate first. Else they will kena from their internal audit. Just like how they have to sell certain stocks just because ESG scoring deteriorated. Not because the investee company are proven to have problem, or not a good investment. Just because there are doubts, they have to exit first.

@Gerrardo don't talk about different industries, but we have one common denominator - O&M and EPCC contracts

That is basically maintenance and operations.

And they keep harping on how impossible it is to maintain constant profit margins. *facepalm*

Serba is basically, in simple terms, operating a building, or a plant, on behalf of client.

Client's job to look for customer for its goods.
Risk of market price fluctuation is to be borne by client.
Customer no pay, none of Serba's business too.

Serba is, in a way, just an outsourced service provider.

Of course the margins are more or less there! It's up to them, using their economic moat, to nego for price that can give them the margins that they want.

Baca komen itu Mickey Mouse dah tau dia ni tak faham industri that Serba is operating in

bazir masa je layan troll cam tu

In conventional engineering/civil construction contracts, we have Quantity Surveyors, assessing, measuring and valuing EXACTLY how much is done, and pay the contractor according to that. I.e. you paved how many metres of road, I pay u how many metres of road's worth of $$.

Milestone Billing contracts are different. You finished lay 1 WHOLE road, I pay you one whole road's worth of $$.

To put it in simple terms.

From the viewpoint of CLIENT, why is there a need for Milestone Billing.

You, the client, you want a working, functioning product.

You don't want your contractor to spend millions on materials, labour and other costs, but the thing is NOT YET FUNCTIONING.

Let's say we are talking about a car.

You finished an engine (and it's working alraeady), I pay you an engine.
You finished the gearbox, I pay for the gearbox.
You finished the car body, I pay the car body.

I don't want to be paying for a half-finished engine. I only pay for finished PARTS/SECTIONS.

It protects the customer/client.

@bobvic96 PETRONAS contract. Guaranteed payment (unless Petronas tumbang), tapi Milestone Billing.

You take or not? Of course take? Then you kena manage your working capital accordingly.

Milestone Billing contracts, only companies with strong financial backing can take it, because the working capital requirement will kill smaller players.

But the profit margin will reward you.

This is how the industry works.

@madmatts jangan

nanti those haters say that we sengaja talk positive to "move the market" hahahahaha

@madmatts yala they think like sell mee sup at kopitiam, do 1 bowl, sell 1 bowl, get money for 1 bowl

Those big contracts can be like, you spent millions buying materials and paying sub contractors and worker wages and so on, but until and unless you finished one section and ticked all the boxes, client ain't gonna pay you even 1 sen.

Tapi, you spent all those money, accounting-wise, you CAN recognise the revenue and earnings.

Earnings =/= Cash FLow

If you guys have any friends doing LRT project now, go ask them, they can tell/show you the ballooning receivables, all thanks to one thing called

MILESTONE BILLING

You do so much, you buy so much materials and park at site, but client ain't gonna pay you until you ticked all the boxes. This is the impact of milestone billing on contractors.

Many PETRONAS contracts are on milestone billing basis too.

@bobvic96 I deem it an insult that you label me a fanboi hahaha

From beginning I have never worshipped Karim or said he is blameless or cannot be faulted or what

What I have been saying is that Serba's defences are valid defences, that is where I raised all the points like milestone billing and contract accounting (hence mismatch in earnings and cash flows), nature of EPCC and O&M contract (hence the stable profit margins), and so on

Cheers to logical reasoning

When you work in the corporate world, you need to know that there are different styles of leaders and managers.

Some, even if you are rude and/or wrong, they try to settle quietly, amiably.

Some, if you are overly assertive or rude, even if you are right or you have a point, they will stop working with you and show you the door.

@bobvic96
<<I have been audited a number of times and I have always found the auditors amiable and will provide advice if they found an issue. That advice would typically find its way into the audit report and presentation to management to demonstrate, amongst others, they are doing their job.>>

There, you proved my point (or did i misunderstand you?) when I said it before that is is NOT the norm for auditors to go direct to Audit Committee/Board, it is the norm and industry practice for auditor to go query and discuss with Management (CFO and/or CEO) first, before they go to Board level.

Also, there are many different kinds of auditors, with different temperaments.

I have met with those (rare, but there are) who raises their voice and have a shouting match with the accountant and/or CFO.

And I have also met with (well, most of them are like this) those who sit down and talk nicely and listen to you.

That is why my current stand and wild guess is that the audit team must have been rude and/or overly assertive with Karim's team, hence the breakdown in audit-client relationship.

Said it before and will say it again

This is not a trading stock

Even analysts are not interested on it

Buy and keep for dividends and long-term capital gain

It will reward those with patience

As in, you disagree with your supplier or customer,

some would choose to sit down and talk nicely

some would choose to bang table to assert their rights

the resigned INEDs could have preferred to settle "nicely" rather than to sue