Posted by AL833D > 2012-05-02 07:48 | Report Abuse

Teh,
The reason why majority, 80% - 90% losing money in market:

1) Majority think about buy low sell high. he buy and think to sell next 10 min if price up. he think also
if price no up, he will cut lose at some lower price! so he do:
a) buy after seeing high volume done (this only need 3 min to searching 'good' counter?)
b) buy on breakout (above some moving average)
c) buy on rumour (sell on news? )

2) No have proper risk management.

3) No money management, actually for me, no need 10 reason to become 90% loser! reason 1 and reason 2 is enough to make 90 % loser. am i right?

cheers.

Posted by Kenny Foo > 2012-05-02 08:51 | Report Abuse

agreed. that's what the TA courses is teaching. Cut loss. The meaning for cut loss is suppose to mean that to cut loss and loss at a very minimal value but most of the time it is really CUT and LOSS....

Posted by Jester > 2012-05-02 09:46 | Report Abuse

Bro Al833D, do you have any more advices? I'm a beginner and would apreciate your knowledge..

good day

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2012-05-02 09:51 | Report Abuse

Those do not follow cut loss strategy will lose very badly in the market. I had very bad experience and I feel it is better to lose small and win big. The choice is yours.

The support for KNM is 0.83 and this stock is still trading downward and there is no sign of rebound. If this support is broken, it will drop further.

Best of luck.

Thank you.

Ooi

Posted by AL833D > 2012-05-02 17:18 | Report Abuse

Bro Jester, i'm beginner also same as u! we together learn from bro cpteh, bro chong, and some sifu that give us good advice. cheers and good luck.

Posted by aunloke > 2012-05-02 17:50 | Report Abuse

If you are not traders and buy only undervalued shares,it is not necessary to cut loss. In fact you should buy more when the price drops for the shares become more undervalued.

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-05-03 11:45 | Report Abuse

i agree with u aunloke. my share also got buy some when the price was drop.this is the way to win money. idiot master cpteh and bro chong

Posted by cpteh > 2012-05-03 12:11 | Report Abuse

Hi yungshen

Please restrain from calling names. I am not an idiot. I am pointing out to help newbies.

Read my posts clearly ... learn if you are losing money. It is part of the game. With 90% losing money, it is obvious why.

Now, we are talking about UNDERVALUED good fundamental stocks, which give good consistent dividends. those are the stocks we wont mind averaging down.

for a start, LEARN to understand what dividends is, learn what undervalued stocks means. That will keep many occupied for some time as it is not easy to quantify those data(FA).

Then, you need to ask if you are using FA to analyse the company ... the prospects, the growth, the risk, the business models etc etc. KNM failed in many aspects, if you care to check it out.

Technical analysis or TA is another way of traders analysing stocks. If it breaks our strong support, we need to cut loss(not average down). Failing to recognise that and using HOPE analysis is one of the most common mistake traders made. Listen ... you learn FA and TA first ... you do not use HOPE ... than it will rebound and claiming it is a strong stock.

I could only hope you will learn. Otherwise, our conversation ends here.

Good luck.

TEH

Posted by aunloke > 2012-05-03 12:23 | Report Abuse

Thanks cp, you cleared my point.

Posted by kl foong > 2012-05-03 12:31 | Report Abuse

The strategy of cutting loss is depending whether the person is a trader or an investor.
For an investor who bought good fundamental stocks which gave good and reasonable dividend, the 'cutting loss' does not apply.
For trader who bought speculative stocks, he need to cut loss when the market is no good to conserve capital.'He who buys and run away, lives to buy another day'.
This is my opinion/view.
We are here to share our opinion and thought - to make money from the share market. So we should do away with name calling.

Posted by AL833D > 2012-05-03 12:43 | Report Abuse

kl foong, agree with u, cheers.

Posted by Chris > 2012-05-03 13:29 | Report Abuse

nice......cheers

Posted by cpteh > 2012-05-03 14:01 | Report Abuse

Hi all

I rest my case. I am off and wont be replying here.

Just hope many experienced ones will help others too. This is a good platform for all to share, but share it with responsibilities, with convictions and discuss in mature manner.

I have spoken more than I should. I m just as many here, a novice ... learning the tricks.

Good luck all.

Cheers

TEH

Posted by angkor > 2012-05-03 14:17 | Report Abuse

Thank you for the valuable advice. It means more than just hoping for something.

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-05-03 14:18 | Report Abuse

sorry cpeth i was saying wrong to u. here i say sorry to u.

Posted by Yuzuki > 2012-05-03 14:42 | Report Abuse

lol

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-05-04 12:32 | Report Abuse

i am investor no matter the price is dropping i still hold my share. and i will buys some share to averaged it. XD. gambateh KNM

Posted by jester > 2012-05-04 12:48 | Report Abuse

Bro CP Teh is right. It's a good platform to learn anything. Being matured is one way to gain knowledge plus being humble at the same time.

Thanks bro CP Teh. i appreciate your advice.

Jester

Posted by Yuzuki > 2012-05-04 12:53 | Report Abuse

lol, so many with poor english command, goes to show a lot of old apek, uncles, aunties, uneducated, starting to trade in klci.. this is good for experts to take advantage of ... lol

Posted by AL833D > 2012-05-04 13:51 | Report Abuse

yuo siltl cna raed waht i tpye baucse oru egnislh smae lveel poor!

Posted by franksoweto > 2012-05-05 05:36 | Report Abuse

Yungshen1, good for you to apologize to CP - he is here to help ( and so is Brother Chong who has taken a lot of his time to provide updates on his many spectacular picks )and I'm sure many newbies appreciate it. we are all here to learn from one another.
You like KNM and so do I at one point - infact it's my biggest holding of 33% of my portfolio still and am stuck at my entry avg of more than 2 ringgit each - my paper loss is more than 200K.
we are all entitle to our opinion but we also have to be responsible with our comments.
anyway,my only hope is that KNM will be goreng again and I can sell at a better price as it seems this fundamentally lousy stock keep hitting new low everyday!
Hope is not the right trading strategy but it's the only One I have right now!

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-05-05 09:49 | Report Abuse

franksoweto what is yr avg price. u try to buy back and avg it.if not your share is very hard to rise until your avg price.

Posted by franksoweto > 2012-05-05 10:57 | Report Abuse

Hi Yungshen1, My average is about 2.17 and the last i average was .87 about 3 weeks ago just for 10 lots and that is it for me. I've shifted some of the little money I have to other stock with better fundamental but just very little as I have no more funds. I like your confidence in KNM but this is a stock that I won't touch for a long time. I actually learn my lesson well now- Never to touch these speculative stock - I'm not a trader and more like a long time investor who invested in the wrong stocks :) you're right that I don't see knm going anywhere north unless some goreng or some good quarters and get some big contracts but they just have too much debts. anyway hope you're not in the same boat with me but that you just like knm like I once did :)

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-05-05 11:14 | Report Abuse

hi franksoweto hopefully knm will goreng one day. god bless u brother.my self also holding knm share. my average price is 2.000 .dun worry brother
knm will rebound in may to july.

Posted by CP TEH > 2012-05-05 11:58 | Report Abuse

Hi YungShen1 and Frank

It is Ok ... no worry, I m not mad or angry at all. Just shaking my head.

If we are planning for a long term, we should either look for growing good stocks or a good dividend stock. There are not many but we certainly have a handful of such good stocks.

I am sorry to hear about the huge paper-losses. Do read good investment books(believe me, majority in KLSE do not like to read anything related to investment, be different ... and you will not be the majority(losing money, right?)). I wont mind sharing on how to start ... it takes time to digest many facts. And do learn the lesson well to move on to be a better investor/trader.

Again ... sorry for your losses. I m sadden each time I heard of people being honest telling about their losses. I feel for them and hope I could help. It is not easy to find those logical ones around, tho. Get real to know real good traders and investors. Learn and continue to learn. No easy way of that.

Let me know if I could help further.

TEH

p/s : Frank, if I m not mistaken ... u e-mail me before, right? Sorry, I hv too many e-mail to attend to.

Posted by franksoweto > 2012-05-05 12:16 | Report Abuse

Hi Yungsheng - thanks for the kind words. Eventhough we all differ on our opinions but we are here to lookout for each other :) so that if we make a mistake we learn from it and get wise. I salute you for apologizing to CP because only a person with a big heart will do that. Take care my friend :) looks like we are in the same boat - Just hope that you're losses is not as big as mine - almost embarrasing to mentioned it! make sure you jump to safety when they goreng KNM again cause I sure will :)

Posted by franksoweto > 2012-05-05 12:35 | Report Abuse

Hi CP No worries :) You can tell yung sheng is a good person - just that he/she is too much into KNM like I do :)
Thanks for your kind words. I've always thought that research reports are the most reliable ones as they do such a comprehensive report - I just know better now :) hopefully it's not to late to come back - better late than never,right?
Been following your blog for the past few months - that is how I got here :) You always give good advice to newbies and take your time to share and I can see that many of our friends here speak highly of you. also you seems to be a very humble person even though you're now at a different level. Always willing to teach and give guidance despite being so busy and hectic.
Yes I'm the majority of the like you said 90 % losing people in Klse. It's heartening that you feel about my losses - that is why I post here not to Buy KNM as I' a living example of it and don't want newbies to simply buy these fundamentally flaw company.
Yes I'm the same Frank that email you about the stock watch - I've wanted to join your stock watch and request many times but got no replies from you but I know you're very busy. I'm based in overseas and it would be nice If I can pay you thru paypal? Let me know and I can get it done tomorrow as it's past midnight here. Again thanks for the kind words. Have a good weekend

Posted by Namoyaki Takarajima > 2012-05-05 12:52 | Report Abuse

A band named Dire Straits wrote a song titled: 'Money for nothing', they value friendships more than money. The most valuable thing in life is 'friend' and 'time'. If you lost them, you can't get it back.

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-05-05 15:23 | Report Abuse

i very confidence tat knm one day will rebound to 2.500. i only know when
one share down to bottom we try to buy and when it going to higher price i will sell it.tq

Posted by bryan_su > 2012-05-05 15:25 | Report Abuse

hahaha.. wish your dream come true!!!

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-05-05 15:41 | Report Abuse

knm share very similar to jcy becouse last time jcy was drop to 0.450 but now rebound back to 1.540 recently. i believe one day knm also can do that.XD

Posted by Eagle95 > 2012-05-06 00:48 | Report Abuse

Last yr I was big loss in Knm too,my strategic is cut loss,then transfer to other boat..I hv make good profit after change to some potential good stocks,totally recover! My advice is if the co already hopeless or not perform,we cannot hold it ,wait and pray...haha

Posted by CP TEH > 2012-05-06 01:30 | Report Abuse

hi

yeah ... good choice. We called it 'opportunity cost'. Hoping a fundamentally flawed counter to be uptrend again is un-realistic. Hoping for a speculative counter to be goreng-ed again ... is frustrating. We could never know the bottom at the moment.

We should NOT use the word "HOPE" ... as I have been reading so-so many comments using the word "HOPE". It is one of the most common mistake of many in markets.

Market is a cruel place where all the hopes dashed. Market is REALITY and for those who live their lives in REALity. Hope is not a strategy, not a component in our trading plan(if ever anyone plan before they trade) .. hope has NO PLACE in our trading and investing.

Lesson : Never live in denial in markets. Be as real and face it. LEARN not to 'hope'. Learn NOT to ask around this can buy/sell, but to LEARN some strategies with trading plan. Have a map and direction before you are lost.

Good trading ahead.

TEH

Posted by Eagle95 > 2012-05-06 01:36 | Report Abuse

I totally agree with u bro cp the,in share market we cannot hope a co prices up tmr,must hv a strategic..haha

Posted by andylee > 2012-05-15 16:08 | Report Abuse

I've bought 20,000 units of KNM for RM3.08 in Jan 2011. That was after I heard that they've won some projects in one of the Balkan countries. Even some research houses have upgraded it to BUY with target price of RM3.50. What happened after that?

By the way, I got 1,000 units during its IPO in 2003, then it splitted to 50 sen (2004) & later gave bonus issue 1:1 (somewhere in 2005). Bought about a lot just before its bonus issue at RM5/share. Later sold it RM15+ at end of 2006. Hence I was curious what happened after that. Perhaps the brothers/sisters here can help shed some light.

Thanks.

Posted by mcd123 > 2012-05-15 16:29 | Report Abuse

I shared Eagles95 strategy, especially on KNM case.As CP Teh mentioned ealier, even on FA ,KNM failed in many aspects..For me , just take 1 for example, its Intangible Assets which constitutes almost 60% of the Company's total Assets...At the rate they amortised annually, its going to take another 50 years to be fully written off. Unlike the other O&G campany, their Intangibles are relatively small...I might look at this counter in 50 years time, If I'm still around..But then again, just sharing my plain analysis.

Posted by Eagle95 > 2012-05-15 16:47 | Report Abuse

Good sharing,bro mcd123,absolutely correct,must study the fundamental ,do homework before into market,not like Qing Danasty soldier,will die soon...be careful..haha

Posted by Pak Lah > 2012-05-15 17:23 | Report Abuse

KNM's 1st Quarter Earning will tentatively be announced on 25th May, 2012. We'll see.

Posted by baramundi80 > 2012-05-15 19:10 | Report Abuse

wah lau eh....learn to cut loss early la....200k loss is a lot of $$ man....u better pray very hard it can go back to your cost.

Posted by baramundi80 > 2012-05-16 14:23 | Report Abuse

Today Giant diapers ran out of stock...bought by you know who la..hehe

Posted by Yuzuki > 2012-05-16 14:51 | Report Abuse

knm boss very smart one, share price drop no problem, he will just announced another corporate move, i.e privatisation, new projects, or better still another share split from 1.00 to 0.25 or 0.20, btw no worry if giant diapers out of stock there is still tesco, carrefour, the store or 1Malaysia kedai runcit

Posted by baramundi80 > 2012-05-16 15:03 | Report Abuse

tesco, carrefour...etc all also ran out already...hehehe

Posted by Yuzuki > 2012-05-16 15:19 | Report Abuse

hehehe, many of us have been waiting for this day, pick your stocks well & you will make a lot of money, i really mean lots & lots of money, never be a stubborn headed, this is the time where TA will work very well with all the good fundamental stocks .....

Posted by baramundi80 > 2012-05-16 15:23 | Report Abuse

Ini preview saja...real mega sales is yet to come...hehehe

Posted by meorwz > 2012-05-16 15:28 | Report Abuse

Maybe this will shed some light.
IMHO

I too am in the red with KNM. loss of 91k, sill holding.
last year was a bad year for O&G fabricator business, as koreans descend into Malaysian O&G business as SKorea in 'recession'.
this year, Petronas, & international O&G players are in M'Sia for Billion$ projects, (46bil to Sabah, multi bil Rapid in Johor, and 15bil in ECER (east Coast).
Local & International Engineering firms are up to their eyeballs in tenders and projects! if you have friends in Technip, Toyo, MMC, etc, ask them..
KNM is the largest and preferred fabricator of O&G equipment in Malaysia, though 80% of their business is in Europe.
Mr. Lee is a a tough guy, last years he attempted to diversify to be less dependent on Fabrication business and developed Process Engineering division. Still young and tough fighting for tenders.

I think there is a future for KNM, especially in light of all the projects & investment in east coast and petronas. KNM will need cash to realise these projects, but their assets are proven for international standards fabrication (accepted by the germans & japanese).

matter of time, but my stratergy is to average down as much at the right tipping point. this can only be at the eve of announcements of fund-raising events.
Till then. I am holding onto my shares...keeps me reminded that i would have fared better if i was not so HOPEful and mindful of cutting losses. you can always enter later when it is better.
Be in Control of your destiny and not let others dictate your destiny for you.

Cudos for Bro CPTEH & Bro Chong

Posted by andylee > 2012-05-16 23:11 | Report Abuse

Hi meorwz,

Thanks for your insights. My strategy is also to average out by buying some more. But not sure when it's the tipping point. Currently KNM is experiencing a free-fall with no retracement. But what's the actual problem with KNM? I thought they have made announcements that they've secured a lot of projects & kept busy all the way till 2015. Also bought a plant in Middle East. Perhaps you all can shed some light.

Recently made some money from selling Hibiscus & its warrants which I hold since IPO. Luckily sold before its dramatic downfall. Sold my Uzma too since holding from IPO days. Today sold all my PChem too before the freefall (Thank God). Now switching my attention on Facebook IPO. Don't know if this is the right move but wouldn't it be opportunity of a lifetime to be a millionaire? Another Google story?

Posted by franksoweto > 2012-05-17 00:27 | Report Abuse

Hi Meorwz, I share your pain as my biggest holding is in KNM and still holding - not sure how long though - seems like this stock is plunging like there's no tomorrow. Becareful when ave down on this counter. I've done that at 1.02 and .87 and pay dearly for that. this company as of now has ablsolutely no fundamental catalyst - 1/2 of their projects secure are not financially close, still have old contracts - god knows how much that is losing money but worse of all is this Mr lee fella is not in my opinion honest. keep giving guidance that totally fall short of his projection. when oil was 35USD per barrel,he says that companies are not spending and when oil was just recently 100 for the past year, still not spending????? anyway, if too much in the red - no point selling right?

Posted by meorwz > 2012-05-17 19:22 | Report Abuse

Hi Andylee,
What's the problem with KNM?....
frankly, I think I agree with Franksoweto, it is Mr. Lee.
He macro manages everything and not all that trustworthy.
He will do things his way and often makes risky bets. Some pays off handsomely while others, not so well... The drawbackis we as investors would not know the difference between his long shots or sure things. Probably subscribes to " the bigger the risk, the larger the reward.."
However, KNM is a huge animal. Assets and capabilities are globally acknowledged.
As I mentioned before, past years had been slow and difficult for many o&g players. Forcing them to seek diversification into Engineering&Design, not just Fabrication/Construct.
This is changing, the O&G players are experiencing a sharp raise of demand and projects in Malaysia and in this region, so much so, the French, Koreans & Americans are aggressively hunting project in Malaysia. This is the early stages of these projects, where they will take 6-9months in design, before it is tendered to fabricators like KNM.
So I predict we will see much activity in KNM after Sept. 2012.
I seriously think our Mr. Lee is intentionally allowing the share value to slip to nothing, before he starts accumulating. If i know and am in control of this timeline for business, I would certainly do the same....wouldn't you?

Besides, I agree with Franksoweto, if it is too much in the red, no point selling.
Enjoy the mudslide and forget about it till we see the end of the tunnel.
When it is time to average down, we'll know (mr. Lee starts buying and the share raises substantially. At least that would be real.
So don't ave down, just yet.....
Look at something else.....till July?

IMHO.

Posted by meorwz > 2012-05-17 19:27 | Report Abuse

Hi Andylee,
Every one in the world is waiting for Facebook IPO.
At least everyone with a Facebook account or have seen the Facebook movie!!!
If I can get my hands on ANY stock share,....I will sacrifice every KNM stock or any other stock I own!!!
Let me know HOW???

Posted by baramundi80 > 2012-05-18 12:24 | Report Abuse

ragional all down at least 1.5-2.0%...KLCI only 0.8%....guess another 15-20 points down in afternoon session...hehehe