Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 22:48 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:34 PM | Report Abuse

By the way, which "small cap" of mine you are talking about?
==========

from my memory, every stock u have ever mention are all small caps, all below $ 1 billion market cap.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 22:51 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:34 PM | Report Abuse

So you were exposed by the one who knows you best.
===========

if are talking about KYY...I have no problems...still whatsapping me...last one just today.....he promoting the same stock to me last few days......

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 22:52 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:43 PM | Report Abuse


Thi BS of yours has caused a loss of more than RM100 million by just one individual over the last two years.
==========

u mean KYY lost $ 100 m? that is his business....I am not his keeper.....

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-30 22:55 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Dec 30, 2018 10:48 PM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:34 PM | Report Abuse
By the way, which "small cap" of mine you are talking about?
==========
from my memory, every stock u have ever mention are all small caps, all below $ 1 billion market cap.


Which "small caps"? And which ones "all collapsed?

Posted by qqq3 > Dec 30, 2018 10:32 PM | Report Abuse
kc..your small caps and OTB small caps all collapsed.....only ones standing are the stocks like QL....go learn from the long numbers guy....

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 22:58 | Report Abuse

if are talking about KYY...I have no problems...still whatsapping me...last one just today.....he promoting the same stock to me last few days......sending me stuffs to convince me....

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-30 22:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Dec 30, 2018 10:51 PM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:34 PM | Report Abuse
So you were exposed by the one who knows you best.
===========
if are talking about KYY...I have no problems...still whatsapping me...last one just today.....he promoting the same stock to me last few days......

So another great opportunity for you to do this again?


Jon: What is your opinion on QQQ3/Stockmanmy? For me, I think it’s quite disgusting how he front run Mr Koon with max margin. That is really the bulk if not all his profits.

Mr Ooi: He is very ungentlemanly, to recommended stock to Mr Koon, and trade against him. Buying cheap to sell to Mr Koon at a high prices, when you know he is buying and collecting.

I asked Mr Koon recently what he thought of QQQ3/Stockmanmy recently. He said he is not even worth my little finger.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 22:59 | Report Abuse

by kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:55 PM | Report Abuse

from my memory, every stock u have ever mention are all small caps, all below $ 1 billion market cap.
=======

that is what I remember, details only u will know......

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-30 23:02 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Dec 30, 2018 10:58 PM | Report Abuse
if are talking about KYY...I have no problems...still whatsapping me...last one just today.....he promoting the same stock to me last few days......sending me stuffs to convince me....


It is another similar episode as Jaks and Sendai like the last two years. But this time, he has no face to do the same thing again as Sendai and Jaks failed, failed miserably.

You are the best candidate to do it as you have no shame and will do it again. That is why he WhatsApp you.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:02 | Report Abuse

Posted by kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:58 PM | Report Abuse

So another great opportunity for you to do this again?
==========

do what kc?

he promoting a stock to me.....like it I buy...don't like, keep
quiet la......

Posted by DK66 > 2018-12-30 23:08 | Report Abuse

Warren Buffett stressed the importance looking at companies that are within his areas of expertise to avoid large investing mistakes. He wants to know how a business makes money and be confident on the sustainability of its profit streams over the long-term. He called the process "judging the future economics of a business." - This is Business Sense.

When a newly incorporated company gets a casino license, is it a promising investment? FA and TA analysts can’t form any opinions as there is no financial data or price history to analyse.

Gamblers can tell you that a casino license is a license to print money. What brought them to their views? - Business sense, which they developed after many years of gambling. They know why people gamble and why the house always wins.

So, is it good to invest in a company which just secured a casino license ? With no prior data to analyse, you can only rely on business sense to make your decision. Most investors will jump in immediately as casino business is easy to comprehend. However, the decision will be harder if the company currently has other loss making business ventures. Investors will have to weigh the future potential earnings against current losses, and need a lot of confidence and patience to look into the future.

You can learn to invest using FA and TA through courses. You have statistics, ratios, and indicators to make your decisions on entry and cut loss points.

To invest in a stock using business sense is much harder than using FA and TA. There is no cut loss point and usually requires long term commitment. You need to understand the business as well as the directors. You must be prepared to deal with risks and uncertainties. You need to be able to evaluate the business opportunities and problems as there is no perfect business model. If you know enough, which is the most difficult part, you can ride through the ups and downs with confidence.

Business sense is not something that can be taught in school. It is gained through industrial knowledge, experience and learning, something that requires many years to develop. The most difficult being having to make logical judgement and assumptions where information is limited or unclear. There is plenty of rooms for imaginations and derivations. There is plenty of rooms for imaginations and derivations. A material omission or misjudgment can have fatal investment outcomes.

As most investors do not have sufficient knowledge and experience to effectively evaluate a stock using business sense. It is safer for them to rely on FA for fundamentals and TA for technical entry and cut loss points.

Conclusion : It is not wrong to invest using business sense but the method is very demanding and is not meant for all investors. FA and TA are safer for most investors.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-30 23:12 | Report Abuse

DK66,

Can you elaborate what is this "Business sense" propagated in i3investor?

Specifically, which aspect is not covered by FA?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:13 | Report Abuse

osted by dragonslayer > Dec 30, 2018 11:02 PM | Report Abuse

Aiyo...still arguing non stop kah..what lah...lol..aiyoyo...kikiki

========

not my fault u know....I am like China...

KC is like Trump......

China, I are only victims.....Trump wants tarif war, what is China do to?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-30 23:19 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:22 |

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Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:23 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:31 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-30 23:31 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Dec 30, 2018 10:59 PM | Report Abuse
by kcchongnz > Dec 30, 2018 10:55 PM | Report Abuse
from my memory, every stock u have ever mention are all small caps, all below $ 1 billion market cap.
=======
that is what I remember, details only u will know......


What?

You claimed that all my "small caps" "collapsed", but couldn't even name a single one, and turned around saying "only you know"?

Are you a small boy or a retired "accountant"?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-30 23:32 | Report Abuse

A person is successful because he is very careful on capital preservation.
A trader says sailang in bear market is as good as commit suicide.
This person will disappear from KLSE soon.
Just count his day.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:34 | Report Abuse

kc

u think I got nothing better to do? details I am sure u know.....

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:35 | Report Abuse

Zhuge_Liang > Dec 30, 2018 11:32 PM | Report Abuse

A person is successful because he is very careful on capital preservation.
A trader says sailang in bear market is as good as commit suicide.
This person will disappear from KLSE soon.
Just count his day.
=====

doing well till now.....no kidding.......

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-30 23:39 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by DK66 > 2018-12-30 23:41 | Report Abuse

Kcchongnz,

I have defined my understanding of business sense. I m not sure if other i3 readers have a different definition.

In the case of Jaks, FA analysts disregarded earnings potential of Jaks Vietnam IPP. I presume on ground of insufficient information and clarity. They continued to downgrade the company on lower current earnings. It is not their fault to exclude uncertainties in their FA as they have to justify their calls. FA usually relies heavily on financial data and couldn't account for future earnings which cannot be reliably estimated due to lack of information.

Posted by alam Rafik > 2018-12-30 23:50 | Report Abuse

too much noice la..

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-30 23:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 00:02 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 00:06 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kelvin61 > 2018-12-31 00:11 | Report Abuse

All the donkeys that followed the self proclaimed super investor have lost their pants. Hopefully, they will learn and be more humble in future. Don't be fooled into thinking that money can be made so easy. In a bullish market, margin was the order of the day so it seems, now it's a different tune as the market has turned bearish. Be weary of those that tell the whole world to buy after they have bought. So, be smart and don't get conned anymore, cheers.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-31 00:15 | Report Abuse

DK66,

You have your point and here is mine.

Earnings potential of Jaks during the construction stage is just a mirage. It has a beautiful story but it has no relevance to long-term investing in this power plant. There is no "business sense", but may be "trading sense". The proponents of this "business sense", without some numbers of future cash flows, were merely hoping to make a quickie out of it, and not aiming to ride on its after the plant is completed and power sold.

Professional analysts who came up with a target price for Jaks without having the information of the future cash flows of the power plant (and also that of its other businesses), are simply not professional and lack credibility.
A good professional analyst should be able to collect all necessary data, make estimate of its future cash flows, taking into consideration the huge debts the power plant has to service before cash is distributed to equity shareholders of the plant, and come out with an estimate of the intrinsic value of the shares.

A potential investment candidate has to have a beautiful story,to be backed up with some numbers. Otherwise there is no business sense, but more of bullshit.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 00:16 | Report Abuse

people who want to be long term investors should focus on strategic issues....me? I am a trader, I buy and sell any thing......

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-31 00:20 | Report Abuse

And the outcome of hoping to make a quickie out of that "business sense" has been shown, loud and clear.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 00:24 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz > Dec 31, 2018 12:20 AM | Report Abuse

And the outcome of hoping to make a quickie out of that "business sense" has been shown, loud and clear.
=====

its about character, habit and practise....u have never shown u have the character, habit and practise of looking at strategic issues like that long number guy in QL forum

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-31 00:33 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Dec 31, 2018 12:24 AM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz > Dec 31, 2018 12:20 AM | Report Abuse
And the outcome of hoping to make a quickie out of that "business sense" has been shown, loud and clear.
=====
its about character, habit and practise....u have never shown u have the character, habit and practise of looking at strategic issues like that long number guy in QL forum


"character, habit and practise"? Wtf is that in relation to the issue here?

Can you elaborate ah?

Can you explain why you have it and others do not have?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 01:03 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 01:06 | Report Abuse

new listing Serba got chance to join the elite list.....

Yinson is a jewel amongst the dogs in OG ....They always got long term contracts before they commit their capital commitments.....Very careful in their business.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 01:14 | Report Abuse

Tan says he likes Freight Management, nothing wrong with this company. Its well run and conservative...but people question whether they have the ambition......?

Posted by Connie555 > 2018-12-31 01:24 | Report Abuse

KC, try to think this way, if u insist that business sense doesnt work and u want a complete cashflow figure and bla bla, well let me tell u smtg, the moment u gt the figure right and tabulated the share price would hv already reflected all the good news. https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/70035.jsp tell me should i continue hang on to this, if i just hang on to the figure without some sort of business sense?

Posted by Connie555 > 2018-12-31 01:31 | Report Abuse

I still rmb years back u keep on condemn on KYY's VS, and the more u condemn the more VS share price shoot....why dont u admit ur mistake that u FA doesnt work on that case? and now u wanna take credit that ur FA works in current case in both SENDAI and JAKS?

Posted by Connie555 > 2018-12-31 01:33 | Report Abuse

Kyy also dint spill a single word on ur article about VS and now u wanna come and take credit of ur FA works in both SENDAI and JAKS case.

Posted by Connie555 > 2018-12-31 01:37 | Report Abuse

"Using the DCFA, V.S appears to be overvalued by 34% at the present price of RM1.60 apiece."

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/86545.jsp

VS subsequently went to RM3.....

Posted by paperplane > 2018-12-31 01:57 | Report Abuse

Business sense make sense! Just u need to see who manage it. The management is key poi#nts

Posted by paperplane > 2018-12-31 01:58 | Report Abuse

Connie, u got a point. But vs now also goes back down? How?

Posted by paperplane > 2018-12-31 02:00 | Report Abuse

But kc, u typical马后炮also lah! If jaks pull it off,u also diam diam. Come-on,be a man. No point personal attack anyone right

Posted by paperplane > 2018-12-31 02:06 | Report Abuse

Kc ,if method doesn't work all the time also. Look at your perstima! U said worth how much then??? Look at it now??If want 马后炮tons on u also

Posted by Choivo Capital > 2018-12-31 02:10 | Report Abuse

Ah business sense, the eternal battle.

I get what kc is going at, most research reports in malaysia on malaysian companies is utterly horrible at this aspects.

Business sense is the ability to understand the economics of the business to its core.

It is the sense that enabled WB to buy GEICO and Netjets, both of which were massively loss making at the time of purchase. With netjets making losses for more than 5 years after the purchase.

It is the sense that enabled WB to buy Coca Cola at record valuations, before it went up another 20-30 times over the next few decades.

Business sense is the ability to see the potential and the ability of the company to execute over the next decade (at minimum) with a high level of confidence, determine its intrinsic value, and then buy at a discount to that.

This one, is the absolute hardest to teach. Even for WB, So many of his companies, bought with business sense (along with some number based FA), go holland.

Dexter shoes, Diversified retailing, Blue chip stamps etc. All gone to zero

This sense, can only come with constant studying about life, psychology, philosophy, the history of mankind, economic history, biology, physics, anthropology, finance, accounting etc etc.

In short, cannot finish studying. Good luck.

I would put it this way. If you think you have business sense, you probably don't.

If you think you can succeed with business sense alone, without understanding how to read accounts and extract insight from them, you probably won't.

Posted by Choivo Capital > 2018-12-31 02:21 | Report Abuse

With respect to KC, at RM6-8. I considered Perstima and MAGNI to be very overvalued. I don't see how it makes sense from an investing perspective. Just my opinion and analysis.

Having said that, we all have our flaws, as we are all constantly learning. I too screwed up to many times in terms of my fundamental analysis.

Its not the fault of the philosophy, but those of the user.

The philosophy is simple, and immensely logical.

1) Identify the range of intrinsic values by discounting all future cash flow of the investment from now to infinity, to net present value

2) Buy when the price is selling at a large discount to that intrinsic value

3) Sell when its close to that intrinsic value.

4) Do nothing in the meantime unless the perfect pitch arrives.


The difference between this and say, TA or momentum investing. Its simple. The first principles are eternal.

For Ta and Momentum investing, you are eternally prone towards the effects of the theory of reflexivity. Where identifiable patterns constantly change due to the landscape being constantly affected by the actions of the market participants.

“There is… a limit on the likely population of value investors because value investing involves more patience and discipline than many people can muster. ”

“Markets are inefficient because of human nature – innate, deep-rooted, permanent. People don’t consciously choose to invest with emotion – they simply can’t help it. Investors cannot change their stripes and will always exhibit characteristics of greed and fear. ”

"The real secret to investing is that there is no secret to investing. Every important aspect of value investing has been made available to the public many times over, beginning in 1934 with the first edition of Security Analysis. That so many people fail to follow this timeless and almost foolproof approach enables those who adopt it to remain successful."

"The foibles of human nature that result in the mass pursuit of instant wealth and effortless gain seem certain to be with us forever. So long as people succumb to this aspect of their natures, value investing will remain, as it has been for 75 years, a sound and low-risk approach to successful long-term investing."

Human nature is eternal. Nothing hurts more than watching someone you know, and consider to be more stupid than you, make more money than you.

The goal is to be able to sit your ass down when it does not make sense, and be the person who is most clear about their circle of competence and with infinite patience.

Business sense will always be beyond that of AI. I doubt AI will be able to analyse the economics of a business with high levels of accuracy before the day i die.


======
Posted by paperplane > Dec 31, 2018 02:06 AM | Report Abuse

Kc ,if method doesn't work all the time also. Look at your perstima! U said worth how much then??? Look at it now??If want 马后炮tons on u also

Posted by smalltimer > 2018-12-31 07:06 | Report Abuse

From simple lay man view, a value stock is one that give dividend & appreciation. If div & appreciation less than EPF rate of return, it is not worth to keep long term.....losing on holding cost & opportunities.

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-12-31 07:52 | Report Abuse

paperplane Kc ,if method doesn't work all the time also. Look at your perstima! U said worth how much then??? Look at it now??If want 马后炮tons on u also
31/12/2018 02:06

True also....especially now i think more than 90% of the stocks in Bursa drops like hell

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-12-31 07:53 | Report Abuse

Yr FA picks Koon's lousy picks all also go Holland

Posted by rajachulan > 2018-12-31 08:53 | Report Abuse

Markets are driven by humans and human nature never changes.
Markets are never wrong but opinions often are.
Successful trading is always an emotional battle for the speculator, not an intelligent battle.
Having the discipline to follow your rules is essential.
Don’t buy long stocks on a scale down, buy on a scale up.
Don’t be fooled by the charisma of other traders.
Know yourself. Fear and greed are your greatest enemies
Trading is not a get rich quick scheme.
Never average losses.
The trend is your friend.
Always trade with a stop loss.
Don’t try to play the market all the time.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-31 08:54 | Report Abuse

Connie555, It does appear that you have read most of my sharing in i3investor from some years ago. Thank you very much.

All my sharing in i3investor in stocks were purely for sharing purpose. There was never any enticement for you to buy, or sell.

If you have followed my stocks analysis, you would noticed that most of them, I would say more than 80%, their share price went up substantially after that. I am very sure if you just blindly bought them, you would have satisfactory results, even at today's prices.

But value investing is not about buy and hold. If the share price has gone up substantially, and above their intrinsic value, and if there is a structural change in the companies, or some relevant macro factors, you sell to take profit or cut loss, and look for other opportunities.

If you do the above, and had followed my stocks, you would have made very good return.

But helping you or anyone else to make money is not my responsibility. I am not your fund manager and you don't pay me.

And in investing, nobody, absolutely nobody is right in every stock he picks.

I wrote about Coastal Engineering as you have purposely chosen that in your comment (instead of many others), and mentioned it was a good investment (and also did not ask you to buy), but it turned out I was dead wrong. What did I do?

I read a critical comment from a reader about the serious drop of oil price which would affect the business of Coastal. Did I condemn him because he offered a completely different view from mine?

No, I thank him and immediately sold off my Coastal and saved a lot of money. I always appreciate opposing views, when they come with some facts.

My sharing on opposing view on VS is also purely based on my analysis on the past few years and the present. I was providing an alternative view, that it might be prudent to be cautious, based on what I think after reading the heavy promotion of the use of margin finance on it. I do not think I asked anyone to sell. For this, I received all kinds of name calling. Yes, VS share price continued to go up, and I was wrong in the future of VS then.

But don't you also read many of my other sharing of other stocks which I thought were highly risky as investments, and 90% of them turned out true? That if you had those stocks and sold them based on my analysis you would have saved a lot of money?