If the rules are not specifically set up, there will be a lot of questions to be answered during and especially at the end of the contest.

I still stick to my opinion that allowing the flexibility to trade and not starting on equal footing will hamper the smooth running of the contests as many unforeseen circumstances may arise, especially if a COMPLETE set of rules and terms and conditions are not fully in place.

Tan KW, as I mentioned to avoid, if not minimize any misunderstandings, disputes and arguments that may arise please finalize and spell out the rules for the participants in terms of (just my opinion)

1) the minimum and maximum number of stocks to be held at any one time
2) the minimum value of stocks to be submitted by 01 Sept (by th e way OTB, if you follow the earlier rules where trading is allowed, there is no closing date as one can just put 100K as cash and decides when to enter)
3) the basis of reference prices for purchases and sales
4) the maximum of transactions allowed during the contest period
5) whether intra-day trading is allowed
6) when should be the timing to notify you of their intended purchases

The above are some of, if not all, of the key points you need to consider to ensure the smooth running of the competition.

I think CFL is agreeable to the way I propose, use all 100K at one go.

As I mentioned, I will refrain from commenting until and unless you both come to a compromise !

You may be correct considering, as you mentioned, thew sensitivity of the markets, Moreover there may be people pushing the prices down for whatever reasons.

faberlicious, just read the rules and submit your picks to KW Tan

Often financial results do not affect share prices. Some companies having poor results see their prices advancing. They may have big projects on hand or have concrete plans for profit improvement etc.

hiddengem, you may be right. but hasn't the QE tapering issue been mentioned and mentioned again inthe last 2 or 3 months and it;s impact already factored into the stock market performance. In fact it is one of the factors that caused the KLSE to fall from the 1,800 point level. Of course there are other issues like the economic situation in India, Thailand and Philippines etc

Did you notice in the B/S that there are plenty of cash / reserves ?

I am just trying to help but fail. My apologies to both parties,

I don't know what to say !

But as I mentioned, to resolve the matter and move forward, Saturn if you have another counter to choose, why stick to Hua Yang. Change it and let the friendly contest begin !

There's absolutely no advantage is using the diluted price or additional shares because when it comes to percentage returns total amount is computed based on the profits gained on initial investment. In my example earlier, the initial investment is 11,200. Either you old 4 lots at a higher price or 5 lots at a lower price.

Both are correct, just interpreting from a different perspective. In Hua Yang, say the current price is 2.80 (for ease of calculation).
1) bonus issue is 1 : 4
2) holding 4 lots (1,000 per lot) is 11,200
3) after bonus you have 5 lots with the price diluted to 2.24 but total holding amounts to the same at 11,200

Sorry for being so long winded. I am an old man ma !

Saturn, perhaps it's better you pick another counter to avoid further arguments. And don't be too personal ya. Thanks !

Hafiz, if there is no apportionment, the issue of adding 250 sahres to Hua Yang does not arise. It must be a comaparison of apple to apple, in this case the reference price. Am I right, Saturn.

Hafiz, to gets things sorted out, if you do not agree with the bonus treatment for Hua Yang, then let Saturn choose another counter. Sine he does not want to take part in KW's challenge, so the 100K apportiontment does not arise.

Thanks for invite, KW. I am not participating. Being a trading environment I do not have time to keep track. I also feel that the with the rules setting the closing price as the selling price for the day, it does not really reflects the actual skills, so to speak, of the participant as the difference may be quite substantial. Nevertheless I appreciate your effort and time in organizing the event and would like to wish you every success and all the participants the best of luck. Like kc ching says, probably we can learn something from the stocks selected.

Ok. I forgot there is a separate game between you and him. Saturn, can you provide your 3 stocks with the intended allocation.

Since there are a few participants who have not used up their 100K allocation.

Posted by Tan KW > Aug 31, 2013 06:48 PM | Report Abuse

@Saturn, it is a gentle reminder that the closing date is 1-Sep-2013. please provide the input latest by 1-Sep-2013 if you interest to participate

thanks

KW Tan, I think the above does not apply since your rules states that trading is allowed anytime. Saturn can just agree to take part with 100K cash. He will then choose when he wants to make the purchases.

KW Tan, I have seen the rules and that's why I am just using a scenario to show you. Since you allow trading such scenarios sure will happen. Is it fair to some one who uses his skill to sell art 2.20 but recorded at 1.98 just because it is the closing price ? He may not want to sell in the first place if he knows the closing price is so low. Thus my suggestion for no trading. Anyway if the rules are set in such a way, the participants will have to accept that.

anyway privatization is just my guess only. The company may thinks that the current price does not reflect the true value of the company or that they may want to stabilize the price. No one knows what is the real purpose.

NTA is just an indicator and may not be necessarily used as an offer price.

I have organised many contests before and I know that without a complete set of stringent rules, there will be endless problems. It's a thankless job.

Stockwatch, you are in the same line of thinking as myself. Take Muhibbah for example if trading is allowed. On 27 Aug it is traded in between 1.96 - 2.24. Say someone who has Muhibbah decides to sell at 2.20 during the day and he informs KW Tan. However as the rules are based on the closing price which is 1.98. KW will take 1.98 as the selling price. So how ?

Hafiz, once Saturn chooses his 3rd stock and advice on how he wants to allocate it, I can help him, no problem. I am very good at numbers.

In fact the game is a virtual stock market where transactions can take place every minute. KW will have an unenviable task updating it everyday.

Kcchongnnz, I am sure you have gone through my postings and understand where I am coming from. You also opine that there will be a lot of problems along the way. It is happening now even before the game starts.

Saturn, if I were you I will not utilize a single sen at this point in time. Leave the 100K intact and buy on dips like when the world stock indices are down or when QE tapering comes in. With tradind allowed< there are so many options available.

Saturn, based on KW's rules where you can trade, surely you can change your picks along the way. For example if you feel that Tropicana is doing badly just sell off your entire holding and pick up another counter like Air Asia etc. And if Air Asia is not performing, sell and buy DRB Hicom etc. I envisage a lot of problems will arise. I pity KW when such a situation surfaces.

Correction : @Stockwatch, luck will be a major factor if trading and intra trading is allowed

@Hafiz, but KW's rules allow to buy and sell anytime and not necessarily hold till 31 Dec.

@Stockwatch, yes lick will be a major factor if trading and intra trading is allowed

@Saturn, yes trade pick prevails over trade pick based on the set rules.

@KW, as now already there are so many conflicting views. With trading allowed, I reckon you will have to update the status ALMOST EVERYDAY

One likely reason is that the company may be privatized.

Stockwatch, so glad that you know and understand what I have been saying the whole day.

CFattLoong, my apologies for the typo error in your name.

Saturn, you got a point on who arrives at 30% first but KW;s contest, jut follow the rules. However you can have a separate challenge between Hafiz and you using this criteria.

KW Tan, I already voiced my piece and I leave it to you to make a final decision on the rules even there may be trading but just take note of my concern and also that
1) surely that from now till year end there will be some correction along the way. The market cannot be going upwards all the way
2) since trading is allowed curing this period, that means someone can just use his 100K to whack one counter in the morning, sell in the evening and continue to do do during this 4-month period. Which
also means that he can go in and out 50 times or more by year end.
3) IT will invite speculation skills more than investment skills.
4) I reckon you will run into a lot of problems, disputes, protests and arguments along the way since the rules are not 100% fool proof but allow loopholes.

Having said that, appreciate your time and effort in coordinating the challenge. Wishing you all the best.

KW Tan, I already voiced my piece and I leave it to you to make a final decision on the rules even there may be trading but just take note of my concern and also that
1) surely that from now till year end there will be some correction along the way. The market cannot be going upwards all the way
2) since trading is allowed curing this period, that means someone can just use his 100K to whack one counter in the morning, sell in the evening and continue to do do during this 4-month period. Which
also means that he can go in and out 50 times or more by year end.
3) IT will invite speculation skills more than investment skills.
4) I reckon you will run into a lot of problems, disputes, protests and arguments along the way since the rules are not 100% fool proof but allow loopholes.

Having said that, appreciate your time and effort in coordinating the challenge. Wishing you all the best.

I think we should let the stocks run until 31st December and not based on who gains 30% first. What say you !

That's the reason I am strongly against trading (see my posting) as it would lead to speculation.

Sorry, I mean Hafiz has already selected his stocks. !

If you were to see my postings I suggest to KW Tan no trading. Pick the stocks and keep till 31st December to determine the winner. Hafiz has already allocated his 100K for 3 stocks. Now it's your turn.

Saturn, OTB has already selected his stocks. How about you ?

KW Tan, to justify my proposal for no trading within the period, let us take imagine the following scenario. People can then buy and sell hundreds of times from now till the end of the year. Some may even do intra day trading on counters like Luster, Sumatec etc. So instead of having a competition based on investment skills, gambling and speculative skills come into the picture. Is this what you want? Do you have the time to update the status every hour, every day? Hence please seriously consider my proposed rules in ensuring everyone starts on the same and equal footing -
(1) select stocks based on Friday's closing price.
(2) use up the full 100K allocation
(3) submit selections latest before market opens on Monday morning

If you were to read my postings, I would suggest no trading within that period.

From what I see so far, the additional people are CFttLoong, potenza10, imoogi99 and Hafiz. OTB also said he will join.

By the time KW Tan returns there will be a big increase in particiapnts and if he agrees with my proposed rules, I will join the challenge.

Small issue. Let's await Saturn;s input since he's been harping on you to come out with your picks. (No offence, Saturn, I just want to be fair to both parties)>