Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 18:32 | Report Abuse

Why u think that's a crazy idea?

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 18:34 | Report Abuse

Hedging HG with CN is smart but hedging CN with another put warrant is crazy???

Posted by Tornado > 2015-01-07 18:37 | Report Abuse

As confuse as confucious

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 18:42 | Report Abuse

@murali

I hedge the HG with the CN. But I left the CN naked, because CN is relatively small (at RM24,000) and I can stomach the loss

Hedge big position don't hedge small position

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 18:46 | Report Abuse

Do u realize the spread u are paying for each cw?do you realize that at 1800 comes Nov, both yr HG n CN may worth zero?

Posted by wwwcomment > 2015-01-07 18:49 | Report Abuse

murali Just like you go genting u buy rm100 big n rm50 small.....when it opens small u happy u lose rm50 only....if it opens big u happy u make rm50.....

07/01/2015 18:02

murali So the rm50 small is a good hedging for your happiness....

07/01/2015 18:02

murali Big u happy small u also happy



Hahaha. Good one. Happy ending.

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 18:51 | Report Abuse

Most importantly u are happy whether u make or don't make money.....cheers

Posted by wwwcomment > 2015-01-07 18:54 | Report Abuse

Seems like the goal now is not make money. The goal now is to not lose a lot money. Very powerful investment strategy.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 19:17 | Report Abuse

Spot on wwwcomment, you seemed to get the essence of the whole thing

Posted by wwwcomment > 2015-01-07 19:18 | Report Abuse

Like.

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 19:49 | Report Abuse

Buying HG at 0.28 now is like paying around 100 points of spread...around 1610

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 19:53 | Report Abuse

Few thousand ? It should be RM30,000 x 2 = RM60,000

Any way, as mentioned in my article (have a you read my article or not ?), I am not bothered by 200 points drop to 1,500. That is a correction, not a meltdown. My export stocks Poh Huat, Lii Hen, etc shouldn't fare too badly (please read my other blog articles)

It is fine if HG doesn't shine at 1500. It doesn't bother me (again, please read my article)

I don't need it to shine at 1500

Posted by lepaklangkawi > 2015-01-07 19:54 | Report Abuse

not sure you're understanding these euro style structured put warrants

spend some time reading on investopedia mr grumpy, then try again

sound very newbie-ish mr murali

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 19:57 | Report Abuse

@murali

You are right, buying HG now at 28 sucks

But don't buy even sucks more (heavy storm cloud ahead. I scare mah)

To reduce the suckiness, CN comes in loh.

It is ying and yang, when HG is pricy, CN is cheap

So I am using the yang to offset the ying

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 19:58 | Report Abuse

Lepak please press Like

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:00 | Report Abuse

Icon888, at CI 1500, u make (1800-1500)/ 667= 0.449 minus 0.28 (price today)= RM0.149 X 200,000 = Rm298K from HG, but you lose RM24K from CN, so you still make few thousands...

Posted by CFTrader > 2015-01-07 20:01 | Report Abuse

Icon8888, you definitely have a good calculation mindset. I am very impressed with your strategy.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 20:02 | Report Abuse

@murali

Oil turned positive now (up few cents, recouping all loss ground incurred this afternoon).

If I don't have CN, I will freak out now

But with CN, I Lepak only

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 20:03 | Report Abuse

Thanks CF trader.

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:04 | Report Abuse

Sorry should be RM33.9K gain from HG if CI at 1500...

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:04 | Report Abuse

Then minus total loss of RM24K from CN, should be gain ard RM9.9K

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 20:06 | Report Abuse

@murali

-------
Icon888, at CI 1500, u make (1800-1500)/ 667= 0.449 minus 0.28 (price today)= RM0.149 X 200,000 = Rm298K from HG, but you lose RM24K from CN, so you still make few thousands...
-------

Got to factor in the premium mah. Market now give the Put 17 sen premium

So I pro forma add it in loh.

You can complain that I am being aggressive, but it can work out that I am actually being conservative

If people freaked out big time, they will go hysteria and pay big premium

There are many very scared people out there leh, my friend

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:06 | Report Abuse

Lepak, look forward to your comment on Icon8888's above hedging method...TQ

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:07 | Report Abuse

Do you think the Issuer will still give you 100 points spread comes Sep/OCt/Nov??

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 20:07 | Report Abuse

murali Then minus total loss of RM24K from CN, should be gain ard RM9.9K
07/01/2015 20:04
--------

Told you already I not aiming for small gain like this. I am aiming for protection against major crash

Wwwcomment got it after one round reading

Why can't you get it ?

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:07 | Report Abuse

Is this your first ever trade of CW?

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:08 | Report Abuse

I fully understand the purpose of HG, just dont see the logic of using CN to hedge against it only...full stop

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-07 20:09 | Report Abuse

murali I got to go. Need to bath my cat

Talk to you some other times

Btw, don't stress your mind too much, have a good rest

It has been a confusing day for you, I know

Posted by lepaklangkawi > 2015-01-07 20:11 | Report Abuse

okay. its like this,

icon and i go 4 bananna leaf. i take vege. he wants mutton varuval

in a sense i understand why he wants varuval, i enjoy it too,

but today i want vege.

we still eat together. but have different approach to meal...

explained
- i appreciate icon hedging. does not mean i have to buy put warrant

i might

1) buy export orient stock
2) keep 80-100% cash - sit out
3) ignore market turmoil - because i have a 5-10 year timeframe
4) hunt/buy quality O & Gas counters because i'm contrarian with a 3-5 year timeframe and believe oil price will shoot up later
5) get/find FX Broker and trade currency or Metal/Oil CFD's
6) switch to short term time-frame and trade highly liquid penny stocks (1-2 week bias)

etc etc etc.... different strokes 4 different folks

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:12 | Report Abuse

I will short KLCI futures if I wanna hedge against my stocks...however, must set a stop loss order lah....period

Posted by Up_down > 2015-01-07 20:12 | Report Abuse

KLCI Futures could be the best option available to hedge the portfolio. It just costs a small amount of trading fees. The problem is how much pressure can we take in this volatile market. I trade both Futures and put warrant that making me more comfortable. Some Put warrants premium are extremely high especially HG, HJ. It doesn't really worthwhile to hedge a portfolio.

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:14 | Report Abuse

U can freely eat meat or vegie....just like I dont agree with what Icon8888 is doing and I m just giving my opinion only...but I wouldnt and I cant stop him from doing so....what's the fuss with u?

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:19 | Report Abuse

My wife is still happy till now...anyway I see yr way make sense....

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:21 | Report Abuse

U sounds experienced but just couldnt understand u seems to find Icon8888's way of hedging with HG and then CN makes sense loh

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:22 | Report Abuse

I am doing yr Item 1-6 (except 5)...

Posted by lepaklangkawi > 2015-01-07 20:29 | Report Abuse

myself only hedge one direction (if hedging at all). put/short/down.

why - already long maaa (by virtue of owning shares)

if icon wishes to go both ways. that his call (hence banana leaf story)

BTW - i meant what i say about study the put warrants...
try to read a bit. only scratch surface.

https://www.malaysiawarrants.com.my/tools?sp=dwcalculator&ric=CWKL_ta.KL

Posted by lepaklangkawi > 2015-01-07 20:36 | Report Abuse

u can look @ OTB stock selectn 4 2015. already pohuat & homeritz shooting up like mad...now is not the market for bonecythe style picks

money to be made. but need $$$ to buy.

Posted by murali > 2015-01-07 20:40 | Report Abuse

Follow the money

Posted by fayeTan > 2015-01-08 08:21 | Report Abuse

erm.. have you included the consideration that if 1997 crisis repeat, maybe the issuer CIMB/Macquarie cannot pay back ?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-08 16:55 | Report Abuse

Allow me to brag a little bit

HG bleeding today

CN saved the day

Posted by duitkwspkita > 2015-01-08 19:48 | Report Abuse

Dear Respected Icon8888,

Mind to teach me one thing? May I know how to paste picture to our blog? I could not do it. How to attach figure or table?

Hope to hear the guidelines from you. Thanks

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-08 19:54 | Report Abuse

Duit there is a red "upload image" button. You can use that to paste picture

As for table, I do the calculation in excel, copy and then go to the article to paste. A dialog box will come out, you paste (twice) in the box

Posted by duitkwspkita > 2015-01-08 20:01 | Report Abuse

Icon,,, is it must use chrome but cannot use IE or MOZila?

I tried so many times but cannot paste any word or jpeg file.....why?
any idea?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-08 20:23 | Report Abuse

I am using IMAC

Posted by duitkwspkita > 2015-01-08 20:57 | Report Abuse

Icon8888, thanks for your guideline.

I will try to do it again. Really appreciate it. Hope my IE or Chrome allow me to transfer the pic if not very hard for me to present my compilation.

cheers Icon8888, you helped me a lot.

Posted by kakashit > 2015-01-08 23:15 | Report Abuse

hmm, i simply browse through ur post ony, is this the
"head i win, tail i dun lose much" scenario?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-08 23:28 | Report Abuse

At least you are open minded

Posted by Icon8888 > 2015-01-08 23:38 | Report Abuse

The strategy is working

Today passed with flying color

I have a put warrant that insure me against down side and yet it doesn't lose money when the index goes up

This is called have your cake and eat it too

If I have a RM1 million portfolio, I will lose RM4,000 for my HG today, but my CN turned in RM8000 profit

Posted by kakashit > 2015-01-11 16:38 | Report Abuse

good word to say is hedging, but actually is shorting against klci.
Although I oso no look good on bursa, but shorting requires timing other than a good macro view.
Haha, Icon u r so un-Malaysia

Big collapse doesnt hurt me since i hv holding power, if it does happen, simply earn less n hold longer loh.

Posted by kakashit > 2015-07-22 16:59 | Report Abuse

my view is that klci will hv correction, at least 20%, but will nvr hv collapse like 1997, since our ppl nvr borrow margin like in 97, these is only 30% retails particapation in the market.

Since KLCI 30 components except for palm oil mostly represent domestic economy, so it will drops. But small and mid caps will not follow klci, they will go diff way rationally.

Usually export one will rise, import one will drop, so u nid not worry too much of the index