Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-04 22:49 | Report Abuse

Note:

What is the Magician Sleight of Hand?

The hand is faster than the eye?

Or the Magic of misdirection?

Giving false signal or misdirection and then trick you right before your eyes!

Is this how INSIDERS Buy Up All Precious shares while others are dumping unknowingly?

Buying in the absence of good news?

And knowing later that bad news will changed into good news?

And When the Maddening Crowd is Buying & Chasing - then they unload all?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-10-04 23:19 | Report Abuse

Gearing very high RM581 mil loans. All money made are used to service interest expense

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-04 23:29 | Report Abuse

Gearing high?

MATTHEW TEE THE CHARTERED ACCOUNTANT KNOWS ALL THIS AND MORE.
YET HE BOUGHT AND BOUGHT ALMOST 10% of TOTAL PAID UP OF BPURI SHARES:

See

Matthew Tee Kai Woon, Malaysian, aged 41, joined the Company in December 2003 as Special Assistant to the Group Managing Director. He was appointed as Executive Director on 1 December 2009 and was redesignated as Group Executive Director on 7 March 2013. He is a Chartered Accountant and has been admitted as a member of the Malaysian Institute of Accountants (MIA). He is also a Certified Financial Planner and a member of the Certified Practising Accountant, Australia. He is currently the President of the Master Builders Association Malaysia (

Posted by yamsengtom > 2016-10-04 23:59 | Report Abuse

Thank you on the highlighting of the directors substantial shares and significant increases from 2015 for BPURI. The fact that they are silently accumulating their shares and the lack of momentum in the price movement are indications that something is brewing.

Fundamentally at present, a positive aspect of BPURI is its higher higher NTA of RM 0.94 compared to the price of 0.41 but its negatives are high PE of 27 and no dividend. Conflicting aspects but we need to compromise and decide.

For positive chi and to gain new converts, do allow me to recite these oft-quoted mantras:

- Buy on rumours, sell on news.

- The market is very efficient - it absorbs and acts on all inputs, rightly or wrongly.

- Be greedy when others are fearful.

- Be the eagle in the sky, not the chicken on the ground. (I first heard this from Calvin).

- Follow the sharks (not eaten by them); swim with the crocodiles (not walloped by them); dances with wolves.

- If you can't beat the Wolves of Wall Street or Putrajaya-1MDB, why not join them??? Godwilling, you'll be richly rewarded with Paris Hilton(s) and Birkin bags.

Posted by Wing50 > 2016-10-05 01:14 | Report Abuse

Recycle, copy and paste old stories, glorifying your past performance to promote a share is baseless. What is the point of listing the company's directors long CV and telling us that one of them is also a Chartered Accountant. All this information is irrelevant. Be brave, take this golden opportunity to counter the argument with 'Bursa Stock Talk' - ' Is Bina Puri cheap'.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-10-05 07:57 | Report Abuse

Whether you can make money to follow Calvin to buy Bina Puri will depend on coming quarters results. If results are good, you will make money. Otherwise you will get stuck

Everything else is irrelevant, especially Charter Accountant

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2016-10-05 08:09 | Report Abuse

bro icon888, what is the main reason u concern about bpuri ? very thin profit margin because of bad management ?

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2016-10-05 08:16 | Report Abuse

bro icon888, how u think about plantation stock which less affect by el nino effect. on 2017 prospect.

Posted by TheContrarian > 2016-10-05 08:29 | Report Abuse

Matthew Tee only owns 1.85% of the Bina Puri. His indirect interest is held mostly through his father, Tan Sri Datuk Tee Hock Seng.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 08:45 | Report Abuse

Posted by TheContrarian > Oct 5, 2016 08:29 AM | Report Abuse

Matthew Tee only owns 1.85% of the Bina Puri. His indirect interest is held mostly through his father, Tan Sri Datuk Tee Hock Seng.

Calvin noted

Thanks for high lighting this.
Will check on this later.

I am happy to answer Icon8888's question

Posted by Icon8888 > Oct 5, 2016 07:57 AM | Report Abuse

Whether you can make money to follow Calvin to buy Bina Puri will depend on coming quarters results. If results are good, you will make money. Otherwise you will get stuck

Everything else is irrelevant, especially Charter Accountant

Calvin answers:

If you check the project awards

YOU WILL NOTICE THAT MANAGEMENT ALREADY CALCULATED THAT THOSE PROJECTS AWARDED IN YEAR 2015 WILL SHOW UP POSITIVELY IN THE RESULTS ENDING FOR YEAR 2016

Rm80 Millions for 440 Units of Flats in Sabah

The Board is pleased to announce that Bina Puri Sdn. Bhd., a wholly owned subsidiary of Bina Puri Holdings Bhd. had accepted the award for the role of project management consultant for the project known as “Mereka Bentuk, Membina dan Menyiapkan 440 unit rumah pangsa 5 tingkat (walkup flats) serta kerja-kerja berkaitan dengannya untuk Program Perumahan Rakyat (PPR) di Pitas, Sabah from Arus Sutera Sdn. Bhd. at contract sum of RM80 million. The works mentioned above shall be completed within 42 months.

The said project is expected to contribute positively to the net assets and earnings of Bina Puri Group for the financial year ending 31 December 2016.

NOTE: THE SAID PROJECT IS EXPECTED TO CONTRIBUTE POSITIVELY TO THE NET ASSETS AND EARNINGS OF BINA PURI GROUP FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR ENDING 31 DECEMBER 2016



Rm73 Millions For RAPID Project from PETRONAS


EXECUTION OF PIPE SLEEPER AND UNDERGROUND SERVICES PACKAGE FOR PACKAGE-22 RAPID PROJECT
The Board is pleased to announce that Bina Puri Sdn. Bhd., a wholly owned subsidiary of Bina Puri Holdings Bhd. had accepted the Letter of Award from Punj Lloyd Sdn. Bhd. on 9 June 2016 for the execution of pipe sleeper and underground services for Package-22 RAPID project at contract sum of RM73 million. The works mentioned above shall be completed within 18 months.

With the latest award mentioned above, the Group’s unbuilt book order stands at RM1.62 billion as at to date.

The said project is expected to contribute positively to the net assets and earnings of Bina Puri Group for the financial year ending 31 December 2016 from the contract income in respect of progress payment received

NOTE: THE SAID PROJECT IS EXPECTED TO CONTRIBUTE POSITIVELY.....
....FOR FINANCIAL YEAR ENDING 31 DECEMBER 2016 FROM THE CONTRACT INCOME IN RESPECT OF PROGRESS PAYMENT RECEIVED.

NOTE FURTHER THESE WORDS CAREFULLY:

"CONTRACT INCOME IN RESPECT OF PROGRESS PAYMENT RECEIVED"

In other words BPURI's RM2 BILLIONS JOB AWRDED IN YEAR 2015 WILL HAVE PROGRESSIVE INCOME ESPECIALLY IT WILL SHOW UP IN THE ACCOUNTS OF 31 DECEMBER 2016

So Seeing GOOF RESULTS AHEAD MATTHEW LEE IS NOW PROGRESSIVELY LOADING UP BPURI SHARES ON THE QUIET

To be continued...

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 09:07 | Report Abuse

And for Projects Awarded for Year 2016 the results will show up in the Balance Sheet for 31 December 2017.

And More:

Since Malaysia's GE is coming soon there will be more project awards for BPuri as it is Govt Linked. See Pm Najib gave lots of projects to GKent & GKent shares have more than doubled in price by now.

Both UMNO & MCA Companies will need cash for the coming GE - latest by year 2018.


And read carefully the words of BPuri's Matthew Tee:

Bina Puri Holdings Bhd executive director Matthew Tee Kai Woon is of the view that Budget 2017 will be positive for construction firms, with more contracts to be awarded in the final quarter of this year.

“The immediate one will be MRT2 and LRT3, followed by the Sabah section of Pan Borneo Highway next year,” he commented.

Tee also advised investors to start looking at construction stocks, because they are the prime beneficiaries of mega infrastructure projects.

“It should be a good year for us. If the oil price rebounds, there will be a lot of oil and gas projects that require general works from us,” he further said.

NOTE:

1) BUDGET 2017 WILL BE POSITIVE FOR CONSTRUCTION FIRMS
2) MORE CONTRACTS TO BE AWARDED IN THE FINAL QUARTER OF THIS YEAR
3) IMMEDIATE ONE WILL BE MRT2 and MRT3
4) FOLLOWED BY PAN BORNEO HIGHWAY NEXT YEAR (Bpuri with CMSB already secured Sarawak side. Now Brunei & Sabah portion coming soon)
5) HE ALSO ADVISED INVESTORS TO START LOOKING AT CONSTRUCTION STOCKS
6) BECAUSE THEY ARE PRIME BENEFICIARIES OF MEGA INFRARSTRUCTURE PROJECTS
7) IT SHOULD BE A GOOD YEAR FOR US (BPURI)
8) IF OIL PRICE REBOUNDS, THERE WILL BE A LOT OF OIL AND GAS PROJECTS THAT REQUIRE GENERAL WORKS FROM US

AND FURTHER NOTE: BPURI's SUBSTANTIAL SHARE HOLDERS IS MMC'S BOSS. Although he is holding BPuri Shares in private capacity I think if BPuri needs help MMC will definitely be there.

ALL THE SALIENT FACTORS POINT TO A VERY POSITIVE TIME AHEAD FOR BPURI

BPURI - AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME!

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-10-05 09:42 | Report Abuse

Ricky I busy body only.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 10:57 | Report Abuse

Icon8888,

You so free?
Better go and do a careful study on Bj Corp assets. You missed a lot of good stuff there. Better go and check it up before I correct it, ok?

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/icon8888/99942.jsp

Posted by cheated > 2016-10-05 11:06 | Report Abuse

Agree with Icon8888. Bina Puri is poorly managed company hence low profit margin.

Posted by cheated > 2016-10-05 11:09 | Report Abuse

You cannot blame someone busy body because Calvin is no 1 busy body in i3 talking bad about other people counters. In Buddhism is called karma. I don't know Christianity is such a bad religion to bad mouth others.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 11:15 | Report Abuse

Posted by cheated > Oct 5, 2016 11:09 AM | Report Abuse

You cannot blame someone busy body because Calvin is no 1 busy body in i3 talking bad about other people counters. In Buddhism is called karma. I don't know Christianity is such a bad religion to bad mouth others.

Cheated,

Calvin does not go to every counter and post warning.

Now if you see a big pot hot in the highway & some foolish people driving at 200 mph without knowing the danger ahead.

Am I a bad guy warning them to slow down and avoid the danger.

It is better for Calvin to warn people not to chase IFCA shares. Don't you agree?

If not why you also condemn Alpha Trader in IFCA Forum?

See your own comments:

Stock: [IFCAMSC]: IFCA MSC BHD
Jun 12, 2015 03:49 AM | Report Abuse

Where is Alpha Trader now? He keep tell us to buy but why IFCA keep dropping? Can trust his MyEg call as well?


Stock: [IFCAMSC]: IFCA MSC BHD
Jun 11, 2015 03:38 PM | Report Abuse

Can claim your loss from Alpha Trader? Where is he now?

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 12:20 | Report Abuse

Someone pointed out Bina Puri has existed for 40 years. Why market cap is still RM100m if the management is strong. What has changed?

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 12:26 | Report Abuse

People said politics and construction industry are dirty. Bina Puri is in both of these two...

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 12:37 | Report Abuse

Posted by hpcp > Oct 5, 2016 12:26 PM | Report Abuse

People said politics and construction industry are dirty. Bina Puri is in both of these two...

So?

Do you know that George Kent was only 20 cents in year 2003, 13 years ago? Why it goes up so much today?

And Gadang was only 37 cents in year 2001?
Why up so much?

Politics?

So they both made 1,000% over?

What is wrong with BPuri if politics help it to secure jobs like GKent & Gadang?

Posted by GoldenEggs > 2016-10-05 12:38 | Report Abuse

So scary man. Didn't even look at balance sheet then recommend buy~ You sure you will have good life by doing this?

Posted by bkt2008 > 2016-10-05 12:42 | Report Abuse

what happen if BN lost the next election?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 12:43 | Report Abuse

Posted by GoldenEggs > Oct 5, 2016 12:38 PM | Report Abuse

So scary man. Didn't even look at balance sheet then recommend buy~ You sure you will have good life by doing this?

What did you see?

GO LOOK CAREFULLY AT THE HIDDEN WEALTH IN ALL THE ASSETS OF BPURI

Rm205 Millions in Shopping Complex (USJ)
Many Valuable Real Estates & Businesses
Power Plant
Toll Road
Hospitality Business
Row of SHOPS FOR RENTAL
Many High End Condos & Villas
Quarry plant & Cement Mixer

So many you didn't see

Remember

The EAGLE SEES FIRST
Then followed by other flying birds
The chicken on the ground see nothing

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 12:46 | Report Abuse

That's my point. Other companies including GKENT and GADANG grow. But Bina Puri is still stuck there.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 12:48 | Report Abuse

Posted by hpcp > Oct 5, 2016 12:46 PM | Report Abuse

That's my point. Other companies including GKENT and GADANG grow. But Bina Puri is still stuck there.

PRECISELY MY POINT HERE

BECAUSE GKENT & GADANG RUN AHEAD IT IS NOW TIME FOR LAGGARD BPURI TO RUN!!

Don't you SEE what I SEE!!!

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 12:56 | Report Abuse

Laugh die me. Please do homework. Have you compared their margins? Bina Puri should have won the award of best consistency in margin. Persistently below 1% most of the time.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 13:04 | Report Abuse

Posted by hpcp > Oct 5, 2016 12:56 PM | Report Abuse

Laugh die me. Please do homework. Have you compared their margins? Bina Puri should have won the award of best consistency in margin. Persistently below 1% most of the time.

Answer:

I think it will be hard for you to understand what I SEE

Nothing is visible yet. Of course you are looking at historic records.

I SEE things coming ahead which others cannot see now.

I SEE:

1) A CHANGE IN EARNINGS GROWTH GOING INTO END 2016 & 2017 & BEYOND

2) I SEE Some Corp exercise - either BPuri being taken private, give bonus issues with Free warrants or suddenly declare huge gain with surprising dividend

3) I SEE Bpuri will be given the Lion Shares of Job Awards like GKent & Gadang

4) I SEE it Shooting up in price like Jaks to cross over Rm1.00

5) I AM SO HAPPY NOW THAT I CAN STILL BUY MORE BPURI ON THE CHEAP WHILE SO MANY OTHERS STILL CANNOT SEE.

Going for a nice lunch now

See all later!

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 13:38 | Report Abuse

If Bina Puri is good, why it had to go through par value reduction about 2 to 3 years ago, even though there was no crisis that time. How to explain that?

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2016-10-05 13:48 | Report Abuse

bro icon888, u are very funny. (^o^)

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2016-10-05 13:52 | Report Abuse

even thought sometime we have disagree with bro calvintaneng , but he is very hardworking & intelligent person. (^-^)

I have learn some info from his article. thanks bro.

Posted by uncle > 2016-10-05 13:56 | Report Abuse

Calvin why so high profile lately?

Posted by bkt2008 > 2016-10-05 14:01 | Report Abuse

Bcause he recomend Bina puri lor

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 15:14 | Report Abuse

Uncle from Investlah?
Still holding your kpscb?
BPuri hasn't run yet. Better get some and wait for job awards!

Posted by Gen2 > 2016-10-05 15:58 | Report Abuse

Please also take notice that Jentera Jati once a largest shareholders has paired down their stakes from over 20% to less than 10% !

And, another prominent business man owned company Bumimaju Mawar has also sold their stakes from over 19% in year 2010 to almost 0% ( not even appeared in the 30 largest shareholders list ) !!

I believe we should also asked ourself why should we buy into Bina Puri if the riched has sold their's at loss ?

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 16:45 | Report Abuse

Calvin, waiting for you answer on this. If Bina Puri is good, why it had to go through par value reduction about 2 to 3 years ago, even though there was no crisis that time. How to explain that?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 17:08 | Report Abuse

hpcp Calvin, waiting for you answer on this. If Bina Puri is good, why it had to go through par value reduction about 2 to 3 years ago, even though there was no crisis that time. How to explain that?
05/10/2016 16:45

herb Can director refuse ESOS share and receive cash instead?
05/10/2016 16:49

hpcp,

Par value reduction was to facilitate Private placement of BPuri shares at 50 cts to 51.5 cts. Par value was reduced from Rm1.00 to 50 cts. All the 30 over million shares were placed out between 50 to 51.5 cts then.

ESOS is the offer to buy Company shares. Usually at 10% below 5 days of average trading price. So if the share traded in the market is 50 cts after being averaged out after 5 days. After discount the Staff or Emplyees get to buy ESOS shares at only 45 Cts (10% less than market).

However, since ESOS cannot fall below par value of 50 cts Insiders were offered 3.2 million BPuri shares at 50 to 54 cts.

So all the privately placed out and internally offered ESOS shares were all taken up at 50 cts.

I AM SO HAPPY TO BUY BPURI BETWEEN 41.5 to 42.5 cts AGAIN TODAY!

I have sold down other shares to buy more BPuri shares today in a time of weakness

I will continue to liquidate others & pile more into this potential Gold Mine of BPURI.

Give me a "FIVE". Haha!

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 17:15 | Report Abuse

Gen2 Please also take notice that Jentera Jati once a largest shareholders has paired down their stakes from over 20% to less than 10% !

And, another prominent business man owned company Bumimaju Mawar has also sold their stakes from over 19% in year 2010 to almost 0% ( not even appeared in the 30 largest shareholders list ) !!

I believe we should also asked ourself why should we buy into Bina Puri if the riched has sold their's at loss ?
05/10/2016 15:58

Yes, Gen2,

Jentera Jati is owned by MMC Boss privately.

fyi

Former Gamuda Director son also took up private placement of BPuri shares at Rm1.00. He is still the Top 2 shareholder of BPuri. His name is Ng Keong Wee.

So over the years substantial holders come and go.

BUT I AM MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT CURRENT DIRECTORS ARE DOING.

Last time I saw INSIDERS OF TN LOGIS BUYING AT RM1.50 & I FOLLOWED THEM. TN LOGIS LATER GAVE BONUS ISSUE, WARRANT AND SHARE SPLIT - PRICE SHOT UP TO RM7.00 and SPLIT UP 500%

SO I EXPECT SOMETHING GOOD TO HAPPEN FOR BPURI ALSO

Posted by Gen2 > 2016-10-05 17:37 | Report Abuse

.

Calvin, it is normal when substantial shareholders sold their shares with profit taking. But, if not one but two very substantial shareholders has sold theirs at a loss mean they see something we don't see.

.

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 20:09 | Report Abuse

Calvin, par value previously was RM1. Which mean IPO time it was at least RM1 or higher. Why the share price performed so badly that it had to do capital reduction? Didn't you ever give a thought to it? Gamuda, IJM do not have this problem. By right, after 40 years, it should have enough reserve to do bonus issue instead of capital reduction. No bonus issue according to Bursa website back to 1999. Do you know that it actually raised RM40mn from right issues in 2003. Where has all the money gone?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-10-05 20:18 | Report Abuse

Binapuri has high borrowings of RM581 mil while net assets is only RM230 mil.

If not careful, will become the next Perisai. Calvin bought Perisai at 46 sen, today it is 8.5 sen.

Perisai has RM900 mil borrowings

Can't you see the similarity ?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 20:22 | Report Abuse

Gen2 .

Calvin, it is normal when substantial shareholders sold their shares with profit taking. But, if not one but two very substantial shareholders has sold theirs at a loss mean they see something we don't see.

.
05/10/2016 17:37

Gen2,

Last time when I bought Pm Corp from 15 cts down to 9 cts I saw PNB throwing Pm Corp shares like no tomorrow.

So? Does it mean that Pm Corp is bad?

Price & Shareholders buying or selling do not determine value.

What actually determine price is the INTRINSIC VALUE.

So we must find the INTRINSIC VALUE AND BUY BELOW IT.

I bought Pm Corp as low as 7.5 cts and it later shot up to 36 cts.

So BPuri to me is a great buy at 41.5 cts with NTA of 93 cts.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 20:24 | Report Abuse

Hippo Buy Signal Is it still good buy that the INSIDERS were not buying as much as what was published in this article?

Any clarification that the below statements are wrong?

Datuk Tee Hock Seng has increased his shares by 2.45%
Matthew Tee has increased his share holding by 8.44%.
Dr Tan Cheng Kiat has increased his shares by 2.168%

Matthew Tee Kai Woon is the son of Tan Sri Datuk Tee Hock Seng, JP
Last year May 2015 he already have so much
Direct (units) 3,380,925
Direct (%) 1.570
Indirect/deemed interest (units) 17,199,778
Indirect/deemed interest (%) 7.970
Date of notice 21/05/2015
05/10/2016 18:54

I think there may be less ownership of shares as some are cross holdings.
I need to check up on this.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 20:28 | Report Abuse

hpcp Calvin, par value previously was RM1. Which mean IPO time it was at least RM1 or higher. Why the share price performed so badly that it had to do capital reduction? Didn't you ever give a thought to it? Gamuda, IJM do not have this problem. By right, after 40 years, it should have enough reserve to do bonus issue instead of capital reduction. No bonus issue according to Bursa website back to 1999. Do you know that it actually raised RM40mn from right issues in 2003. Where has all the money gone?
05/10/2016 20:09

It's ok. Par value reduction was done in Pm Corp to write off debt & give Cash payout.

The single most important factor is

Am I buying a share below ITS INTRINSIC VALUE?

Posted by hpcp > 2016-10-05 20:53 | Report Abuse

From track record, instead of maximising shareholders' value, it has been minimising shareholders' value. And you are still the state of denial...

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 21:12 | Report Abuse

last time mui group only devastated the value of pm corp by diluting it with mui iculs a, b and c.

So?

So there is a value. And price fell below intrinsic value so I loaded up.

All the negative news about bpuri is already factored into its price.

If not how could bpuri be only 41.5 cts when gadang and gkent above rm2.50?

Posted by traderman > 2016-10-05 21:17 | Report Abuse

If not how could bpuri be only 41.5 cts when gadang and gkent above rm2.50?

-------------------------------------

It means the company are in shit.

but hope you buy more

Posted by Wing50 > 2016-10-05 21:51 | Report Abuse

You don't have the courage to defend your arguments right at the beginning when facts were presented - 'Bursa Stock Talk' 'Is Bina Puri cheap'. Remarks like" Eagle see from high" and "made 6 figures sum from PM Corp" won't help your arguments. On the other hand, comments from fellow investors in I3 are sharp and relevant. You have certainly lost your case. as this is now reflected in the share price and trading volume today.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 21:58 | Report Abuse

Wing50,
I still in Booming Iskandar now.
Will give a full answer this weekend when I am back in Spore.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-10-05 22:02 | Report Abuse

Traderman,

Yes, I bought more today between 41.5 cts to 42.5 cts.

Will add more if price should weaken further.

I firmly believe at this price I am getting good value. After all I am happy to buy at 42 cts when Insiders are paying much higher at 50 cts both by Private placement and ESOS.

Posted by Eternal > 2016-10-06 04:16 | Report Abuse

Then why insiders should pay higher? They can just buy from market, right?

Posted by promote > 2016-10-06 05:13 | Report Abuse

Brother of Charlie, Why not promote MULPHA now? It is 21 sen.

You DID promote MULPHA so so hardly @ 41.5 to 42.5 cts

(MULPHA 41.5-42.5, year 2014, where this Charlie's brother promote so hard hard de)