Posted by AndyLow > 2016-11-23 22:32 | Report Abuse

dun answer means u are really fake lo....sorry

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-23 22:40 | Report Abuse

calvintan, i have no intention to make fun of your name. but wow, you don't even recognise my claim on the RM110bil as 12 years capital commitment instead of your claim as debt.

Since you car salesman, if you rent a car from a rental company, do you care about the depreciation? You pay the rent (Operating lease) and deprecation is not your problem already.

the question, where do they book the plane? answer lie on Operating Lease accounting practice and AACL.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-23 22:45 | Report Abuse

LOL!

Calvin more articles on the way.

Don't have enough time to answer all yet!

Posted by Raymond Tiruchelvam > 2016-11-23 22:48 | Report Abuse

my girlfriend also have 2 hanging timebombs.... but im smiling no complaining "-) seeee....

Posted by nekosan > 2016-11-23 22:51 | Report Abuse

TONY should hire calvin as the adviser .... of the toilet department

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-11-23 22:52 | Report Abuse

guys i think we can seriously just ignore him. his typically response to a good intelligent question is just to run off.

staind86, i understand what u are saying. thx for the info.

operating leases n all. cheers

no need for us to be bothered by him anymore.

just read his stories as an entertainment lol

Posted by Lk036 > 2016-11-23 22:53 | Report Abuse

Stock market is not 100% and prediction is on a time frame. Icon 8888 is super in term of prediction, analysis, skill and probility of correct is much higher. Also he is quite a gentlemen n kind hearted.

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-23 22:53 | Report Abuse

Mr Calvin, instead of putting down your counter argument on the points you mentioned in your main articles, you threw me articles on others things such as about their investment in associates. Some are with counter arguments already given by Airasia themselves.

lol. now i ask you one direct question about being car salesman, how you consider depreciation (also tell you about your question on the current assets) when renting, you avoid again.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-23 22:57 | Report Abuse

Ok one answer for staind86

if you rent a car from a rental company, do you care about the depreciation? You pay the rent (Operating lease) and deprecation is not your problem already.

Calvin answers:

AAX rent or lease those 29 AirBus A330 300 planes?

Do you know how much to lease/rent a car than to own it outright?

Try renting a car from ORIX rent a car? Avis rent a car. Budget Rent A Car or Pacific Rent A Car?

Renting is far more expensive than owning overall.

Now no joke. Rent Rm1.3 Billion A330 00 to ferry low priced passengers.

Might as well rent Ferari to ferry people in grab or uber taxi for small fares?

The business model is definitely not sustainable.

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-23 23:06 | Report Abuse

coolinvestor - thanks god someone understand.

there are pro and cons in using operating lease. You can read below link and see the benefits AAX get from it. It is a standard in airlines business. I would not say, operating lease cause the business model to be unsustainable.

Feel free to read here.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Capital_Lease_vs_Operating_Lease

Posted by JN88 > 2016-11-23 23:10 | Report Abuse

AAX so danger, so I should buy MAS ticket or AAX ticket? Any suggestion?

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-23 23:11 | Report Abuse

In business, there are different strategy employed by companies.
It boils down to Build, Borrow, Buy. This is to add-on why I say, I won't say leasing cause the business model to be unsustainable.
You can read the book if you want, same name as the strategy name.

Posted by myportfolio > 2016-11-23 23:28 | Report Abuse

Calvin,

To begin with... are u an accountant by profession?

Even if you are.. the accounting practice for aviation industry is totally different from the REST. So please dont spread numbers accross pages if you aint sure abt the whole process. To be able to even calculate, u must have exp in the aviation industry :) And the same goes to oil and gas industry.. very complicated stuffs. Note: i am an acctg graduate :)

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-23 23:48 | Report Abuse

Posted by staind86 > Nov 23, 2016 11:11 PM | Report Abuse

In business, there are different strategy employed by companies.
It boils down to Build, Borrow, Buy. This is to add-on why I say, I won't say leasing cause the business model to be unsustainable.
You can read the book if you want, same name as the strategy name.

Refer back to AAX latest report

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/5266713

Scroll down to Note 32a

IT IS PLAINLY STATED AS

AIRCRAFT PURCHASE RM110 BILLION

IT IS FURTHER STATED AS

NON CANCELLABLE OPERATING LEASES

TWO FASTS STAND OUT

1) IT WAS AIRCRAFT PURCHASE (SO NOT RENTING)

2) NON-CANCELLABLE OPERATING LEASES
This means that AAX has borrowed monies to buy those Airbus A330 300 from some Banking Institution.

The ownership rights now belong to the Banking Entity while the borrower is AAX. And the loan has been released to seller. The purchaser(AAX) will only have full ownership of the 29 planes until all the outstanding leases(loans) have been fully paid up.

Under these contracts there is no way AAX need not pay for the cost of the planes. As of now the payment (postponed) because AAX in financial distress?

Question is? If the Financial Institution that gave loans for these 29 AirBus A330 000 repossess these planes.

How much will they be worth?

After auctioning off the 29 repo arcrafts will they sue for the outstanding balance?

Who will suffer?

One more question?

What happened to Transmile 4 rotting planes in Subang Airports?
Who bought them? At what price?

There is bound to be Depreciation for any car, plane, train or ship.

For Hubline the rusty ships are now worth nothing.


Think carefully & deeply

It is your monies.

Posted by rogers123 > 2016-11-24 00:12 | Report Abuse

Calvin, u have done a good job for axx and airasia. The Conman And syndicate blog is very interesting too. Some people are paid to write the blog to attract people to buy. Puncak is one of the example. "Rzl is a very capable person" <--I am sure this guy didnt know Rzl personally at all. Hahahahaha

Posted by comet2232 > 2016-11-24 07:45 | Report Abuse

The capital commitments are for purchase of Airbus A330 and A350 aircraft over
the next 12 years.

Why do you keep trying to mislead by saying it is for the 29 existing aircraft?

Posted by John Lu > 2016-11-24 08:01 | Report Abuse

Calvin is only a car salesman...shame on him

Posted by 威威 > 2016-11-24 08:20 | Report Abuse

If u have a car loan and u already settle it.. The car now is still debt? LOL...
This clown keep shouting AA and AAX got huge debt but never think of some of the planes already settle the loan?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-24 08:22 | Report Abuse

Good morning fellow i3 forum members,

Looking through all the comments Calvin sees some are for Calvin. That's good!
For the rest who oppose? You are quite kind with your words. Last time in Ifca Forum people there reacted far worse than here.

So Calvin thinks the madness of the crowd has lessen. At least now there is hope.

comet2232

Look at the present reality.

All 29 Airbus A330 300 are in operation right now. These planes are flying right now. So the operation cost? The depreciation cost? The purchase cost? The financing cost?

Don't tell me they are all in the future?

It is plainly stared under no.32a as

Aircraft purchase.

Question now is.

AAX has off balance sheet costs not mentioned clearly.

What is the actual depreciation cost?

And profit of only Rm11 million cannot cover depreciation cost.

As depreciation increases year after year the real value of these 29 aircrafts will lose more and more value.

One day AAX will also go the way of hubline.

Hubline has high Nta but why it is only traded at only half sen?

The answer is this.

Hubline's Nta is based on past value of newly bought ships. Now that hubline ships are rotting away there is only scrap value left.

Same fate will before these 29 A330 300 planes. They are depreciate in value. If earnings cannot cover depreciation the future is bleak and cloudy.

Do you get it?

Posted by John Lu > 2016-11-24 08:23 | Report Abuse

LOL...compare AAX with hubline?? LOL

Posted by John Lu > 2016-11-24 08:27 | Report Abuse

Posted by John Lu > Nov 24, 2016 08:26 AM | Report Abuse X

I heard Calvin is selling his house to average down his cost due to DRB big drop...btw, he got house? Maybe the house make by paper...LOL...i can burn 10 house for you Calvin...LOL

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-24 08:28 | Report Abuse

Correction

Same fate will befall these 29 A330 300 planes. They all depreciate in value. If earnings cannot cover depreciation cost the future is bleak and cloudy.

Do you get it?

Posted by John Lu > 2016-11-24 08:29 | Report Abuse

Posted by John Lu > Nov 24, 2016 08:26 AM | Report Abuse X

I heard Calvin is selling his house to average down his cost due to DRB big drop...btw, he got house? Maybe the house make by paper...LOL...i can burn 10 house for you Calvin...LOL

Posted by comet2232 > 2016-11-24 08:41 | Report Abuse

Those 30 aircraft in operation are accounted under Non-Current Asset (whereby depreciation is charged annually) AND under operating lease (where by operating lease expense is charged). All of the 30 aircraft (be it depreciation or operating lease expense) are accounted for in the financial statements.

By the way, "NON-CANCELLABLE OPERATING LEASES " means when the planes are delivered and put into operation, you will also see "operating lease expense" instead of "Depreciation". AND you wont see it listed under "Property, Plant and Equipment" also.
So please in future, dont raise the same issue again.

I suggest you read the 2015 annual report carefully where it states clearly that the capital commitments are the purchase of those airbus over next 12 years.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-24 08:49 | Report Abuse

Where got depreciation in the financial statements.

29 Aircraft worth Rm32.7 Billion

If only 10% depreciation

there should be a Rm3.27 Billion mark down

I don't see that in the balance sheet at all.

Rm3.27 Billion depreciation will take 10 years life span.

For company vehicles they mark it down to Rm1 in 5 years.
So depreciation is 20% per year.

Posted by comet2232 > 2016-11-24 09:01 | Report Abuse

The most important and expensive parts of an aircraft are the engines and airframe. They are depreciated over 25-30years. AAX depreciates them over 25 years.

Please read up on all other airlines' annual report on their depreciation policy too for comparison.

Like many ppl have said, they are in depreciation and operating lease expense already.

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-24 09:05 | Report Abuse

Mr Calvin, yesterday in your reply to me you threw me the word off balance sheet. I thought you understand already,but no. You did not.

In layman term, you just consider AAX lease the plane from a lessor. As lessee, they pay the operating lease. So, they are not putting the plane as their asset and liabilities. So, you don't see depreciation. Or even easier to understand, operating lease is the depreciation. The operating lease is the revenue for the lessor. In the lessor book, the will put the plane as their asset and liabilities,thus they depreciate it there.

This, it is off balance sheet. I read in annual report, AACL has started to take over the plane. Thus, I think in future, all planes will be part there. And by the way, AACL is making profits too.

Posted by TheContrarian > 2016-11-24 09:16 | Report Abuse

staind86, how much was the operating lease rental charged as expense?

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-24 09:36 | Report Abuse

TheContrarian, AAX is charged ~ RM1 bil/annum. However, they also sublease and earn income ~RM300mil/annum. So, it is ~RM700mil/annum. I think this is partly because they still own some aircrafts or maybe some other accounting term like leaseback (I am not sure)

What triggered me was Mr Calvin was saying, the company has revenue of 1bil/qtr and net profit of RM11mil/qtr and sitting on debt of RM110bil. He obviously thought the RM110bil is quarterly unrecorded debt instead of a sum of 12 years.

I am thinking, if AACL sold to third parties, these asset and liabilities will be parked under the new company instead of currently recorded somewhere in some company's balance sheet.

Then, AAX just continue business like usual. They may have to foregone the RM300mil income, but they will record gain from asset sales and slash off the liabilities (because I think they still own some planes). correct me if I am wrong.

Posted by comet2232 > 2016-11-24 09:56 | Report Abuse

These 29 aircraft were purchased/leased in prior years.
Using list price given by Calvin, each were USD256.4M

Before Jun 2015 (AAX already has 26 aircraft by then), exchange rate USD-MYR were less than 3.8.

Rough estimation of cost = 29 x 256.4 x 3.8 = 28255
Rough depreciation = 28255 x 90% / 25 years = 1017M **A
*90% is to calculate [cost - residual value] / 25yrs
-->Please read AAX Annual Report for useful life and residual value

Looking at latest quater:
Depreciation = 27985k
OperatingLease = 222240k
Total = 250225k for 3Q
Rough estimation for a year = 250225k x 4 = 1000M **B


So the numbers (**A and **B) are very close. The depreciation/operating lease expense for all 29 aircraft are all accounted for in the Profit/Loss account.

This is just a rough estimation assuming no discount to list price. In reality, you would obviously obtained discount for volume purchase. Hence, had they decided to own them (as compared to leasing them) they would be paying much lower than 1b per year.

Posted by Whey Whey > 2016-11-24 09:57 | Report Abuse

AA shoot up ^^ keep writing Calvintaneng xD

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-24 10:01 | Report Abuse

comet2232 well done. thanks for the calculation. in annual report 2015, it also shows they are charged ~RM987mil (C). A-B-C almost the same.

Posted by TheContrarian > 2016-11-24 12:40 | Report Abuse

You either have huge operating lease charge (if you lease) or huge depreciation charge (if you own) but not both.

Posted by comet2232 > 2016-11-24 13:00 | Report Abuse

Which law said you cant own x number of aircraft and lease y number of aircraft (thereby total of x+y aircraft in use)?

Just as in business, I can own 2 copier machines and lease 2 other copier machines.

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-11-24 13:01 | Report Abuse

well done people!!! i also learn about depreciation n operating lease now.

cheers for the info.

calvin is in fact a fake analyst. now u guys see...he really knows nothing about analysing and i SERIOUSLY doubt he bought any shares at all.

keep up the good work ppl. i am also very against fake people with even wilder n fake stories

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-24 13:02 | Report Abuse

Hi Guys,

I just checked with Airlines depreciation for aircraft

It is about 7.5% per year depreciation cost

So AAX 29 AirBus A330 300 if valued at Rm28 BILLION

The depreciation cost would be Rm2.1 Billion per year.

So will AAX's profit be able to cover yearly depreciation of Rm2.1 Billion?

This quarter of Rm11 million profit is grossly inadequate.

So be careful now.

A Stock like Transmile (without instrinsic value) can be held up by syndicates and hopeful sorchai for an indefinite period of time. But if the fundamental is no good it will surely end badly one day.

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-11-24 13:06 | Report Abuse

operating lease is in fact a rent.

u dun have depreciation becoz u dun own the asset.

nicely done aax

aax rents n AAC owns the planes. smart choice.

calvin's car is on a loan...meaning a capital lease. hence he have depreciation to swallow kau kau also.

faham tak car salesman?

next time learn n respect others before just shoot off your mouth...amen

Posted by chamlo > 2016-11-24 13:07 | Report Abuse

Why never mention DRB loss? Proton car depreciation forgotten?

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-24 13:09 | Report Abuse

Mr Calvin, comet2232 already pointed out to you the the value is depreciated over 25 years for major part like engine and airframe. Secondly, there is 10% residual value.

Bacalah annual report if wanna comment like a research house.

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-11-24 13:11 | Report Abuse

just ignore him la guys, he refused to learn n accept other ppl's opinions. plus i doubt he buys any shares..its all fake

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-11-24 13:14 | Report Abuse

from comet's calculations should aax still have some profits to declare, this also means that they already accounted for the expenses for the depreciation/lease.

isnt this good? aiyo

TF n kama runs a tight ship and are lowering their debts.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-24 13:15 | Report Abuse

Posted by coolinvestor > Nov 24, 2016 01:08 PM | Report Abuse

still tak faham ka...THERE IS NO OR MINOR DEPRECIATION IN AAX DUE TO THE FACT MOST OF ITS PLANES ARE ON OPERATING LEASE!!!

IT JUST MEANS RENT ONLY!

wow guys really hard to teach this old uncle calvin la....lol


WHOA!!

Why you all are so careless?

Note 32a in QR Stated Aircraft Purchase

It should not be there at all if there is no purchase but rent or lease

Or ok if lease?

Do you know there are 2 categories

1) Lease without purchase commitment. Then very expensive lor!

29 A330 300 would cost Rm4 Billion to Rm5 Billion a year to lease without string attached.

2) Lease with purchase commitment or buying on hire purchase

Less loan repayment.

But you own the planes. And depreciation is 7.5% per year.

So there is no escape from so high overall capital cost.

Posted by John Lu > 2016-11-24 13:15 | Report Abuse

Calvin likes to naked in front of us to let us see how shameful he is...i laugh till cannot eat my lunch...stomach so pain now

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-11-24 13:17 | Report Abuse

well that was my mistake from the earlier statement as i never read properly. i apologise hehe

there happy? at least i admit when i am wrong.

DO U DARE TO ADMIT THAT U ARE WRONG CALVIN?

Posted by John Lu > 2016-11-24 13:19 | Report Abuse

Calvin face very thick one la..he everyday naked in front of us also no feeling one...u ask him admit his mistake?? Very hard like kena toto

Posted by John Lu > 2016-11-24 13:20 | Report Abuse

All 105 comment as at now..95% is against Calvin..the 5% is his own comment...LOL...whole world is against this thick face big mouth Calvin

Posted by staind86 > 2016-11-24 13:21 | Report Abuse

Operating lease is common for new airlines. This is because, the cost of capital will be too high if they want to buy the plane. The fact that they are covering the operating lease and still make money is enough to tell you they are able to cover expenses.

If you want to argue on depreciation, there is something else to argue about. I am not going to tell you. hahaha.

Wanna argue, must be hit the nerve. you hitting wrong place, bro.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2016-11-24 13:21 | Report Abuse

Posted by coolinvestor > Nov 24, 2016 01:17 PM | Report Abuse

well that was my mistake from the earlier statement as i never read properly. i apologise hehe

there happy? at least i admit when i am wrong.

DO U DARE TO ADMIT THAT U ARE WRONG CALVIN?


John Lu
129 posts
Posted by John Lu > Nov 24, 2016 01:19 PM | Report Abuse

Calvin face very thick one la..he everyday naked in front of us also no feeling one...u ask him admit his mistake?? Very hard like kena toto

Yes! What's ails you guys?

Tell Calvin what's your problem?

I will offer my best help, ok?

Posted by VenFx > 2016-11-24 13:23 | Report Abuse

Calvin, quick go average yor Bleeding Bpuri.
U should be busy civer your sh*t call.
They are all blood flooding .

Posted by VenFx > 2016-11-24 13:26 | Report Abuse

Calvin should be bankrupt by now, if he walk his talk.