Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 11:55 | Report Abuse

hahahahaaa...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 11:56 | Report Abuse

Also kookoo already one

Posted by newbiestock > 2013-07-24 11:56 | Report Abuse

this site is a real cartoon ler. LOL

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 11:57 | Report Abuse

steve jub? he is juz one innocentbeing used by u... pity the fellow. but glad to c him making good $$$ at amprop! he gotta be careful what of "friend" he is making though :D

Posted by KC Loh > 2013-07-24 11:58 | Report Abuse

Speaking of cuckoo, try newbiestock..... proven sardine quality! hahahahahahahahahah

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 11:59 | Report Abuse

hohoho, a con man for a friend. The evidence in Kfima thread can never be erased.

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 12:01 | Report Abuse

yup, let's put up a record here also:

original comment is CLEARLY stated ABOVE all comments, kcchongnz copied and MODIFIED other's comment to make her story!! now PUSING to said his copy is GHOST story!!

Posted by kcchongnz > Jul 19, 2013 01:04 PM | ReportAbuse

Yeah my apology, saw wrongly. But I have the 12 year net profit (in thousands) of Kfima below. Sliding profit?

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 12:01 | Report Abuse

can u help to put your copy here as well? thx

Posted by VIWizard > 2013-07-24 12:02 | Report Abuse

KSL?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2013-07-24 12:05 | Report Abuse

Dear all,

It is not a recommendation to buy, I just want to show the intrinsic value of this stock.

Triplc IV Calculation

Total Net Profit Years 7/10

Total Positive Operating Cash flow Years 6/10

Total Dividend Payout Years 0/10

Total Positive free Cash flow Year 6/10
19/40
Growth%
10 Years Average Turn Over 142044
Latest 4 quarters 172324 21.32%

10 Years Average Net Profit -3409
Latest 4 quarters 29320

2011 2012 2013 Growth%
EPS (Cent) 0.77 13.73 45.8 233.58%
PER 225.97 12.67 3.80 70.02%
ROE 3.12 18.49 29.17 57.76%
NTA 0.25 1.16 1.57 35.34%
Dividend 0.0 0

2011 2012 2013
Net Profit 1101 13772 29320
equity 35340 74485 100524
ROE 3.12% 18.49% 29.17%

Price CAGR % (Buy and Hold)
Average Return History -9.16%
3 yrs Return 111.09%

Method 1
EPS 0.46
g 10.00
Y 7.0
IV= (EPS*(8.5+1.5g)*4.4)/Y 6.77
Current price 1.12
Margin of Safety 83.44%
Potential gain 504.05%

Method 2
Discounted Cash Flows Calculator
Discount rate 12.00%
EPS 0.46
Earning expected to grow (annually) 7.7
for the next (? Years) 3.0
before leveling off to an annual growth 3.00
Calculate Stock Value per share 6.32
Current price 1.12
Margin of Safety 82.28%
Potential gain 464.29%


Method 3
ROE 29.17%
Rr 8.00%
NTA 1.57
IV= ROE/ Rr*NTA 5.72
Current Price 1.74
Margin of Safety 69.60%
Potential gain 229.00%

Method 4
(22.5*EPS*Book value per share)^0.5
EPS 0.46
Total equity 100524
Number of shares 64022
(22.5*EPS*Total Equity/share)^0.5 4.02
Current price 1.74
Margin of Safety 56.74%
Potential gain 131.18%

Thank you.
Ooi

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 12:06 | Report Abuse

@viwizard, once ksl resumes div payout plus broader market remains intact (must closely monitor), ksl should see upside. as of now, all markets traded all time high, qe worries, china gdp worries, eu problems... properties market have slow down as buyers defer buying decision, seeking better opportunity. juz a 2c view, yr $ yr choice!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 12:11 | Report Abuse

Wait, let's start from the beginning, one step at a time, ok?

Posted by iafx > Jul 19, 2013 12:42 PM | Report Abuse
cbip share price is weak now, this is a good chance to switch (or split) before cpo price rebound, what would be the price of cbip vs kfima when cpo finally up? cbip stands better chance to payout more div compare to kfima sliding revenue and do nothing cash, cbip share price gained proven far better than kfima over the years. yr $ yr choice!

Of course you can't find this there any more. I will show further proof why do I say so.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 12:12 | Report Abuse

Then came my posting:

Posted by kcchongnz > Jul 19, 2013 12:49 PM | Report Abuse X

Posted by iafx > Jul 19, 2013 12:42 PM | Report Abuse

cbip share price is weak now, this is a good chance to switch (or split) before cpo price rebound, what would be the price of cbip vs kfima when cpo finally up? cbip stands better chance to payout more div compare to kfima sliding revenue and do nothing cash, cbip share price gained proven far better than kfima over the years. yr $ yr choice!


So my question is what if cpo price continue to slide?

Kfima sliding revenue? This is what I got for Kfima's 12 years revenue. 12 years!!! Is it sliding? Or somebody simply shoot again?

Year 2013 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002
Revenue 486524 470753 431884 411432 369070 308712 294477 300331 247121 223076 221136 187310

"cbip share price gained proven far better than kfima over the years"?

Posted by kcchongnz > Jul 19, 2013 11:48 AM | Report Abuse X
Posted by iafx > Jul 19, 2013 11:04 AM | Report Abuse
cbip offers much better return :D
Sure or not, or just simply shoot?
Show me the comparison of long-term return of both for comparison, total return and compounded annual return for 3 years, 4 years, 5 years.
Can or not?

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 12:15 | Report Abuse

thx, here's the ORIGINAL copy sitting ON TOP of all comments, page 44 first comment:

Posted by iafx > Jul 19, 2013 12:48 PM | Report Abuse X

cbip share price is weak now, this is a good chance to switch (or split) before cpo price rebound, what would be the price of cbip vs kfima when cpo finally up? cbip stands better chance to payout more div compare to kfima sliding profit and do nothing cash, cbip share price gained proven far better than kfima over the years. yr $ yr choice!

****

judge for yourself, if anyone is accusing anybody here.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 12:15 | Report Abuse

Hoh, suddenly a ghost appeared and the first post (12.42pm) disappeared. Another one which looked the same, but it is not, the word "revenue" has been changed to "profit". It appeared at 12.48pm, just one minute before my 12.49pm post. Tell me if there is a ghost?

Posted by iafx > Jul 19, 2013 12:48 PM | Report Abuse

cbip share price is weak now, this is a good chance to switch (or split) before cpo price rebound, what would be the price of cbip vs kfima when cpo finally up? cbip stands better chance to payout more div compare to kfima sliding profit and do nothing cash, cbip share price gained proven far better than kfima over the years. yr $ yr choice!

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 12:17 | Report Abuse

wow... a "ghost" appeared... what else can be said?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 12:19 | Report Abuse

So? see how you have exposed your tail? Nothing else to say?

Posted by KC Loh > 2013-07-24 12:23 | Report Abuse

Stock: [SKPRES]: SKP RESOURCES BHD Jul 11, 2013 12:21 PM | Report Abuse

kcloh lets be friends plz???

Blog: Malaysia Building Society - Excellent opportunity to buy Jul 11, 2013 12:20 PM | Report Abuse

kcloh lets be friends.. i lose i accept. peace. let there be peace in i3 investor.



Speaking of exposing tail..... hahahahaha

Gosh, I didn't realise tapir can change words fast! I never even imagine the can bolt away just as fast with their kontot tail between their legs!

Pity little donkey Dave, thinking I was not around but ran away so fast as soon as I appear! LoL

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 12:28 | Report Abuse

How can I read his post, get some data, wrote a long response to his 12.48pm post, post it, all within one minute? Siow meh?

And the last one. What is the Chinese saying, something like very embarrassed when people exposed his tail and got very angry.

Posted by iafx > Jul 19, 2013 08:12 PM | Report Abuse
my original comment is CLEARLY stated ABOVE all comments!! how to delete and still above kcchongnz's cmment?? kcchongnz is clearly once again pusing his cerita, anyone still wanna take her word seriously so be it

so call live in NZ? pui pui pui! one hell of sickening liar!

Posted by VIWizard > 2013-07-24 12:28 | Report Abuse

@iafx thx ^^ in KSL i trust <3

Posted by iafx > 2013-07-24 12:35 | Report Abuse

@viwizard, no worry, certain that u will check everyday: http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/list-of-companies/plc-profile.html?stock_code=5038

good luck!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 12:37 | Report Abuse

Posted by iafx > Jul 24, 2013 12:17 PM | Report Abuse
wow... a "ghost" appeared... what else can be said?

finally admitted of the ghost thingy. and also "bolt away just as fast with their kontot tail between their legs"!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 12:54 | Report Abuse

KC Loh, I didn't know tapir bashing and ghost busting is such fun. More fun than ROE, ROIC, EV, ebit etcv.

Posted by KC Loh > 2013-07-24 13:02 | Report Abuse

LoL..... tapir hunting season just began

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 13:03 | Report Abuse

And also the season of ghost busting

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-24 13:58 | Report Abuse

做功课 loh! Is White Horse a hidden gem?

Posted by Chang Chiang > Jul 24, 2013 11:16 AM | Report Abuse
Dear Kc, what is ur view on Whitehorse ( code 5009 ). Is it a hidden gem worth investing? I apologise to bringing this up again, but i really would like to know ur view on it before i make any long term investment no it. It is in the tiles business that i consider not that competative in Malaysia. And the current price at 1.69 is much lower then it NAV of 2.94 . Dividend is almost 6% . My main concern is there seems to be not much interest in it and the price seems to be stucked. Pls guide me.

White Horse Berhad is engaged in the manufacturing and distribution of ceramic and homogeneous tiles. The Company's products include ceramic wall tiles, ceramic floor tiles, porcelain granite tiles, porcelain stones tiles, Porcelain tiles and multi-effect granite tiles.

My opinion is White Horse is in a very competitive industry. Net profit margin is thin at only 7.1% last year. This pulled down its ROE and ROIC to only 6.2% and 5.2% respectively last year, way below the costs of capital. The quality of its earnings is poor, with CFFO way below its earnings. In both years, after spending on capital expenses, there is on average, a negative cash flow of 14.4m the last two years. So it is not surprised that its net borrowings has increased by 34m last year. So there is no way White Horse can be classified as a good company according to my metrics. We can only see if it is a value buy using the 5 yardsticks of ColdEye.

1 ROE 6.2% No
Net profit 41879
Equity 675706
2 Cash flows, average
CFFO 38990 <51241 No
FCF -14373 Negative No
3 PE ratio 9.3 <10 OK
Price 1.690
EPS 0.1825
4 Dividend yield
Dividend , sen 0.10
Dividend yield 5.9% >3.5% Yes
5 Price/NTA 0.57 <0.8 Yes
NTA 2.940

As you can see from the above table, there are more “no” than “yes” according to ColdEye’s yardsticks. The only yes are its dividend yield of 5.9% and Price-to-book of 0.6. But bear in mind that the dividend of 10 sen per share was paid with additional borrowed money, not from CFFO.

As for its high NTA, also be reminded that a lot of the assets are in property, plant, and equipment , receivables and inventories. These stuff are poor quality assets and are unlikely to fetch close to its book value when in liquidation.

So fundamentally, I would avoid this company. But as its share price movement? I really don’t know.

Posted by sense maker > 2013-07-24 14:16 | Report Abuse

As the name suggest, this is not a black horse. :D

Posted by Chang Chiang > 2013-07-24 17:00 | Report Abuse

Dear Kc, thank you so much for taking ur time to look on it. After reading the info's you found, and your research, it is very clear why there are not much demand for it. It is very clear that it is not a hidden gem. Guess i will have to look further for the real hidden gem.

Posted by yfchong > 2013-07-25 10:26 | Report Abuse

Bro KC, refering to your comment what are the items to be classified as good quality assets. Thks

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-07-25 10:28 | Report Abuse

STAR PUBLICATIONS (M) BHD(6084)
RM2.760 +0.020 (+0.73 %)


Year 2013Q1 2012 2011 2010 2009

1. GOOD FIGURES OF ROE
ROE 2% 18% 19% 18% 12%
ROIC 2.53% 14.27% 23.52% 21.19% 19.79%
ROIC - WACC -8.72% 2.48% 11.75% 9.36% 7.94%


2. INCREASING REVENUE, MARGIN AND INCOME
Revenue 220,618 1,079,907 1,067,668 1,061,700 973,921
Margin 10% 19% 17% 18% 15%
Net Income 22838 200742 185312 190168 149633


3. FREE CASH FLOW SATISFACTORY
Free Cash Flow, 24926 146893 233434 73631 322158
CFFO/NI 134% 101% 140% 53% 226%
FCF/REVENUE 11% 14% 22% 7% 33%
FCF/IC 3% 17% 31% 9% 46%


4. PE RATIO, DIVIDEND YIELD, BOOK VALUE
PE RATIO 71.898 9.156 12.462 13.018 16.229
Dividend Yield 0.00 0.07 0.06 0.18 0.05
Payout ratio 0% 64% 71% 231% 88%


5. BOOK VALUE, NET TANGIBLE ASSET, EV
Net asset per share 1.49 1.54 1.37 1.37 1.70
Price/NTA 1.71 1.67 2.31 2.39 1.87
EV/Ebit 63.87 9.79 8.10 9.32 8.98
EV/EbitDA 63.87 7.40 6.73 8.44 7.07


6. PRICE HAS DROPPED A LOT IN SINCE YEAR 2012.


ANY COMMENTS? SEEMS OKAY TO ME.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-25 10:56 | Report Abuse

Posted by yfchong > Jul 25, 2013 10:26 AM | Report Abuse
Bro KC, refering to your comment what are the items to be classified as good quality assets. Thks

Money, money money. Yes cash and cash equivalent is the best quality asset. don't you agree?

Other good quality assets like investment in a good profit generating subsidiary and associates, high rental yield investment in properties, etc.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-26 18:00 | Report Abuse

TeckChuan Lee,
Looking at the tabulations you have made for Star, it does appear that it is a good company to invest in.

Actually it should be doing well as most English papers readers would have bought Star as the daily paper to read. There is not much competition from other English papers. I used to buy this paper every day last time. But now I am not living in Malaysia, so no more buying. But the thing is if I am still there, I wouldn't be buying it any more. First I do not like the paper being controlled by MCA. And it is being used as a political tool. I dislike that. I think many people also feel the same. So I prefer to read online news now. I even subscribe to Malaysiakini. If Star can be independent of political influence from MCA, I think it will do better.

Putting that aside, we now look at how has it been performing. First it has some growth in its revenue and earnings, not much but respectable. It has very good operating efficiencies, with ROE and ROIC of 18% and 14% respectively from your tabulations. Not sure why ROIC has dropped so much from the 20s previously.

Best Star has very good cash flows. Its quality of earnings is good with CFFO always larger than NI. It has very good free cash flow, more than 10% of revenue and invested capital. this is what I like most.

With a PE ratio of 9.1 and enterprise value 10 time ebit, i think it is not overly expensive in view of its business and operating efficiencies.

Wait until Star get away from MCA, then maybe I will invest in it.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-07-27 01:32 | Report Abuse

Dear kc. Can you guide me on Trade receivable at footnote section?

Example : Mega First (MFCB) FY2012 Report page 83

1. I would like to know more about unbilled account receivables. Where to find them in page 83? what is the total amount of unbilled A/R?

2. How much of unbilled A/R is considered unhealthy? how do you set your benchmark?

3. How do they make adjustments to A/R, to increase quarter or FY revenue, operating profit and net income? I understand that accountants tend to over estimate completion of projects to increase revenue

4. On page 83, 'Advance for Don Sahong Project' & 'Advance for plantation project'. ???

5. Unbilled A/R is very common in project based companies, IE SP Setia or Trop. Unhealthy?

Note.
Percentage-of-Completion Accounting
Part 1, Chapter 2 (Aggressive Revenue Recognition)
Whats Behind The Numbers.

Posted by CityTrader > 2013-07-27 09:55 | Report Abuse

Hi teckchuan

I may have calculated diff fig from u as below due to my incorrect computation & may u guide me what is yr formula as below:-

1) Price/NTA
2) EV
3) EBITDA

TQ in advance for yr guidance.

5. BOOK VALUE, NET TANGIBLE ASSET, EV
Net asset per share 1.49 1.54 1.37 1.37 1.70
Price/NTA 1.71 1.67 2.31 2.39 1.87
EV/Ebit 63.87 9.79 8.10 9.32 8.98
EV/EbitDA 63.87 7.40 6.73 8.44 7.07

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-07-27 11:07 | Report Abuse

City trader whats your email? i ll send you my mega first excel with all the calculations. Not sure whether I did the calculations correctly.

Posted by CityTrader > 2013-07-27 13:13 | Report Abuse

my email is as below

desmondliew99@yahoo.com & i do create my own calculations in excel format too & the ev/ebit etc is not tallied with yours so i doubt i compute the wrong thing into my templates (i totally dont have any knowledge of accounting)

BTW, i copied & pasted from wikipedia the formula

EV= market cap + preferred equity + minorities + debts + unfunded pension - associate companies - cash & cash equivalents

So where can i find the following items in the 3 statement reports:-
1) preferred equity
2) unfunded pension
3) associate companies.

TQ

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-27 18:04 | Report Abuse

footnote section? unbilled A/R?
Teck Chuan, you got me. i seldom go into such detail. And do you also know that I am not an accountant?

The term unbilled receivables appears to me to mean the sale, or part of it, is not billed to the buyer yet. For example, a property developer has not billed the buyer on a stage completion of a house.

So it may mean that there is an understatement of the revenue and income for that period. So for the next period, the revenue and income will be more than actual when the "unbilled" part is billed. In this case , the developer may try to smoothen its earnings volatility. Not sure I am correct or not.

No idea if it is healthy practice or not or how much is healthy. Do you really have to go into such detail?

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-07-27 18:15 | Report Abuse

thank you. Seems like ive went too far lol. will skip this part. no point going deeper since it is unnecessary.

Can you show me the parts you usually read to avoid financial statement fraud? adjusted revenue and income? CFFO?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-27 18:17 | Report Abuse

TechChuan, what is your profession may i ask?

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-07-27 18:23 | Report Abuse

profession? lol. im a lorry salesman

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-27 18:24 | Report Abuse

Techchuan, let's go to the following link which I set up for discussions of fundamentals and leave this thread for others to suggest and discover hidden gems, ok?

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/900218979.jsp

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-07-27 18:42 | Report Abuse

Hi kcchong, I notice that a lot o people are askinh waht is the TP of this counter or that counter. To me there is no such thing as a target price as what the expert analysts forecast in their report as prices changes with time. when an analyst forecast, say the price of a counter is RM2 based on the current price of RM1.50. Later when the price shoots up to RM2.20 the same guy will come out with a higher TP of RM3 and it goes on and on. Same happens when the price falls. What is your take on this ?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-27 19:09 | Report Abuse

inwest88, 100% agree with you. Analysts change their target prices, sometimes very frequently like you said. When you give a target price, don't you base it on the company's business; what they may earn for the next few years? How come this changes so often.

In short analysts many analysts don't know what they are talking about.

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-07-27 19:15 | Report Abuse

Thanks kc, for your prompt comment and agreement. I always wonder that if these analysts are so good in their forecasting and prediction, why waste time working as analysts in stockbroking firms and investment houses

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-27 19:20 | Report Abuse

inwest88, that is why a famous person once said:

Tis goeth down to a fundamental aspect that “An investment in knowledge pays the best interest”
- Benjamin Franklin

And also inwest88, don't hope to make money waiting for insiders to goreng the stock. They won't goreng for you to make money. They goreng to make money for themselves, from people like us.

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-07-27 19:26 | Report Abuse

Agree. And I reckon investing should be based more on FA than TA - it's safer.

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-07-27 19:40 | Report Abuse

Kc, if you don't mind, what is your view on Mudajaya. From what I observe this company and WCT are the laggards in the construction sector.

Posted by j harcharanjit a/l jalaur singh dhillon > 2013-07-27 19:54 | Report Abuse

http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Investing/2013/07/26/India-deadlock-resolved-and-Mudajaya-back-on-track.aspx

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-07-27 21:13 | Report Abuse

Thanks harcahranjit. However I am asking kc for his input based on FA.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-07-28 04:14 | Report Abuse

inwest88, this is my recent post for Mudajaya. Please note that there were some recent news that one of Mudajaya's problems in coal supply (?) may have been solved. If it is so there may be some renewed interest in this stock. However, I don't think this is the only problem of Mudajaya in India.


Posted by kcchongnz > Apr 17, 2013 06:47 PM | Report Abuse X

Posted by seedarren > Apr 13, 2013 02:30 PM | Report Abuse
How about Mudajya?
Year 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004
Revenue 1655722 1347059 870428 719971 422382 273981 285933 293113 385139
Net Profit 237104 231032 215553 119180 45117 30140 16255 14724 26679
Equity 1103833 1007725 760988 422840 304132 253862 164187 153152 144195
ROE 23.53 30.36 50.98 39.19 17.77 18.36 10.61 10.21
Growth Analysis(2004 to 2012)
=============================
Revenue CAGR = 20%
Net Profit CAGR = 31.40%
Equity CAGR = 28.97

Stock Analysis
==============
Curr Price = 2.56
PER = 5.94
Div Yield = 2.54
P/Book Ratio = 1.26
Graham Number = 7.50
PEG = 0.19

Mudajaya certainly is a growth stock from 2005-2010. Revenue and net profit (NI) grew at the speed of bullet train. However after that, though revenue continue to grow, NI has stagnated. This is natural as Mudajaya grew to a giant size, it is harder to grow any more. Hence I would stop calling Mudajaya a growth stock from now on. But does MudaJaya qualifies as a value stock. Let us evaluate using Cold Eye's 5 yardsticks.

1) ROE is 23% tick
2) The quality of earnings for last year was fantastic. CFFO is 234% of NI and FCF is abundant at 29% of revenue, tick.
3) PE ratio at 6.5, <10, tick
4) Dividend of 9 sen, or DY of 3.5%, more than FD rate, tick.
5) Price-to-book of 1.3 <1.5, ok and tick

Hence Mudajaya qualifies as a value stock in all aspects.

I think there are two major reasons for the undervaluation of Mudajaya; one was the poor credibility of its management which investors have not forgotten yet. Secondly, I have doubt about its power plant in India. There are many political, social, economical, etc issues about this power plant development in India.