Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-04-07 08:45 | Report Abuse

Value investors purchase stocks at relatively low prices, as indicated by low price-to-earnings (P/E), price-to-book (P/B), and price-to-sales (P/S) ratios, and high dividend yields (DY). Investing for "growth" results in just the opposite -- high P/E, P/B, and P/S ratios, and low DY. There are valid reasons why investors are willing to pay a higher price for growth stocks. A firm with a higher growth will grow its earnings at an accelerated rate compared to a low growth firm. Assuming a firm A earns 10 sen a share a year now and it pays no dividend, with all its earnings reinvested into the business with the same return. Assuming its earnings grows at 10% a year. In 5 years time, its EPS will grow to 16 sen (10*(1+10%)^5). If the growth rate is 30%, EPS after 5 years will be 37 sen, more than double that of the growth at 10%. Table 1 below shows the EPS at different growth rate. Table 1: Earnings growth rates Earnings growth 5% 10% 15% 20% 30% EPS in 5 years $0.13 $0.16 $0.20 $0.25 $0.37 So shouldn’t a stock with higher expected growth rate sell at a higher valuation, and how much should it be? This brings us to the concept that “The value of a firm is the sum of expected future cash flows generated by the firm discounted to the present value”. Assuming stock A above is selling at $1.00 and hence at a PE ratio of 10. Let’s say my required return investing in A is 10%. In 5 years time A’s EPS grows to 16 sen. Further assume that A is still selling at a PE of 10 in 5 years time, or $1.60. The present value of this future cash flow is also $1 (1.6/(1+10%)^5). So if you have bought the share at $1, you are paying a fair price. If you pay 1.50 for the stock now, or at a PE of 15, you are paying a high price; but you pay 50 sen for it, or at a PE of 5, you got a real bargain. Now let us look at a stock B with present EPS of 10 sen also but a high expected growth rate of earnings of 20%. Its EPS will grow to 25 sen in 5 years time. Assuming you pay a higher price at $2 to buy B now, or a PE of 20 and after 5 years, it is still selling at a PE of 20, the price then will be $5.00 (20*0.25). If you discount this price at 10% back to the present value, it is $3.10, more than 50% above the price you pay. You got a great deal even if you pay a higher price of PE of 20 for a stock B growing at 20% for the next 5 years. Table 2 below shows the effect of growth rate and PE ratios on the fair prices of stocks. Table 2: Effect of growth and PE ratio on stock prices Earnings Growth PER $1.00 5.0 10 15 20 25 30 5.0% $0.40 $0.79 $1.19 $1.58 $1.98 $2.38 10.0% $0.50 $1.00 $1.50 $2.00 $2.50 $3.00 15.0% $0.62 $1.25 $1.87 $2.50 $3.12 $3.75 20.0% $0.77 $1.55 $2.32 $3.09 $3.86 $4.64 25.0% $0.95 $1.89 $2.84 $3.79 $4.74 $5.68 30.0% $1.15 $2.31 $3.46 $4.61 $5.76 $6.92 We have seen that it is justified to pay a higher price for stock B which has a higher growth than A. If investors see the consistency of the growth in B, they may be willing to pay a higher valuation for it 5 years later. As shown from Table 2, if the rate of growth is maintained at 20%, and valuation expanded to a PE of 30, the present value of stock B is worth $4.64. The problem is the “growth” we are talking about is the future expected growth, a forecast figure which is not easy to predict. The growth estimate, especially those with very high rates often do not last long enough to justify the high PE. In the case of stock B, if the forecast growth rate is lower than expected, say at 10%, instead of 20%, and that the PE ratio contracted to 15 as a result, investors who have paid $2.00 initially, would have its present value dropped to $1.50 after 5 years as shown in Table 2. So there is a price to pay for growth. Paying a fair price for growth expectation may earn an extra-ordinary return for investors; but paying too much for growth is detrimental to the return of investment. Of course the best thing to do for investor is paying a good price for a growth stock. Do you have some stocks in mind to share? KC Chong (7/4/2013)

4 people like this.

123 comment(s). Last comment by necro 2013-05-09 11:55

Posted by faberlicious > 2013-05-04 07:47 | Report Abuse

kc, u said SkpRes produced 19.1m of FCF last year which is equivalent to 3.2 sen per share.It should be 2.1 sen per share(19.1 m /900000 mln shares.

skyland

644 posts

Posted by skyland > 2013-05-04 08:46 | Report Abuse

Ini kali lah !!....Dont wait lain kali lah..!!

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-04 08:58 | Report Abuse

faberlicious,
That financial statements were for financial year ended 31/3/2012. At that time there were 60m shares. A 1 bonus for two shares held issues were executed mid June 2012 and hence then only no. of shares increased to 90m. So the 3.2 sen per share of FCF for financial year ended 31/3/2012 is correct.

If you talk about the financial year ending 31/3/2013 which is not announced yet, the FCF per share seems to be higher, even with 90m shares outstanding now. As at 9 months ended 31/12/2012, the CFFO is 44.2m. After deducting 6.9m in capex, the FCF is 37.4m, or 4.2 sen per share (37400/90000).

Posted by faberlicious > 2013-05-04 11:26 | Report Abuse

ya,u are right kc. My mistake.Bought some @ 29.5 sen yesterday.
What do u think about MBSB kc ?

iafx

4,632 posts

Posted by iafx > 2013-05-04 11:46 | Report Abuse

good overview, companies of self-made businessmen or politically neutral stocks may continue to thrive: http://www.theedgemalaysia.com/business-news/237802-stocks-to-watch-glcs-politically-linked-stocks-construction-ringgit.html

watchout 2nd 3rd line good counters!

Posted by faberlicious > 2013-05-04 12:03 | Report Abuse

kc,read that one yesterday.Just want to know your OWN thoughts. :)

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-04 14:25 | Report Abuse

iyah, faberlicious, I don't know so much about MBSB lah. Anyway, I give a try here.

The loan growth and the growth of its bottom line is nothing short of spectacular. Operating income has risen up from 177m in 2008 to 1.1 b in 2012. Seemingly fantastic model too; get loan cost funds and loan it to government servants, direct debit from their salary, and hence unlikely on loan default. I don't know if it is true in long term because many government servants borrow a lot of money and way beyond their ability to pay back. Hopefully really no bad debt, and the government doesn't come in with stricter regulations to clamp this unhealthy practice of borrowing too much money of the government servants.

Valuation wise, if I use a required return of 12%, last year's ROE of 30% and its net asset backing per share of 1.26, its intrinsic value is 30%/12%*1.26= 3.15 per share. ROE valuation is appropriate for finance company.

Posted by faberlicious > 2013-05-04 18:19 | Report Abuse

thanks for your comments kc. Are u looking to buy any particular stock if market falls Monday?

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-04 18:39 | Report Abuse

faberlicious,

I am almost fully invested already. I did not cash out before election. But how do you know market will fall on Monday? Most local funds left the market two years ago because of election fear. But did the market fall, even until the last day before election?

Even the market falls and if you buy good company stocks with sound fundamentals at good price, do you have to worry about it so much?

Most if not all academic researches have shown that there is no evidence that market timing can earn you extra-ordinary return.

Posted by faberlicious > 2013-05-04 18:59 | Report Abuse

kc, i'm not worried at all,not the slightest.On the contrary,I've been buying if the price is good.Of course Monday's market up/down depends on GE results.Same like u I never cash out. Look beyond mah! There's a saying "all things will come to pass" n so GE13 will soon be a distant memory.

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-04 19:21 | Report Abuse

yes, "This too shall pass"

Posted by faberlicious > 2013-05-04 19:37 | Report Abuse

kc,u posted quite a bit about Kfima but nothing about its associate company Fimacorp.My question, is buy which better? Yeah,Kfima vs Fimacorp !

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-04 19:48 | Report Abuse

Both quite similarly undervalued but Kfima is more liquid.

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-06 11:00 | Report Abuse

See, it is so difficult to time the market. Local funds have been holding cash for so long for fear of the election and this has just passed. What is the problem? They have missed a few percent gain already. This one-day rise is equal to may be 30% of the normal rise of the market in a year. Ever wonder why fund managers under-perform the market? This is one of the reasons; trying to be smart to time the market.

iafx

4,632 posts

Posted by iafx > 2013-05-06 11:06 | Report Abuse

does this means the foreign funds have correctly "time" the market? every winner come a loser in stock market, it is whose strategy is more appropriate at given time.

anyway, no one know for sure if missing local funds "made a big round" to enter the market :D :D :D

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-06 11:09 | Report Abuse

sigh, fewmau how are you? I am fine. Why you sigh?

I sigh because somebody just won't understand anything I am talking about all the time.

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-06 11:23 | Report Abuse

MBSB CM, a value call warrant?

Price Ex-Price Ex-Ratio Expiry date Premium Gearing
0.145 2.500 2.000 29/11/2013 -3.5% 10.0

At 2.89 now for MBSB, and CM at 14.5 sen, the call warrant is trading at a discount of 3.5%, with a gearing of 10. It means that if you keep CM to expiry in 7 months time, and the price of MBSB stays at 2.89, you make 35%. Of course one can sell it before it expires. Incredible, but why like that one ah?

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-06 11:25 | Report Abuse

My home is still in Malaysia. Nothing compare with home. We will be back soon. Yeah, too back, Pakatan didn't make it this time again. But it is getting there.

Posted by freecooper > 2013-05-09 10:34 | Report Abuse

hi kcchongnz, thank you very much for sharing with us ur knowledge and opinions. may I ask ur opinion on hapseng and canone?

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-05-09 11:01 | Report Abuse

freecooper, I know hapseng and canone are good companies; just don't know if they are good investments. You know lah, I am just a small retail investor who sometimes rant a bit, not an analyst of investment banks, especially not from Kenanga. And I bullshit a bit here and there. I am happy that you you do appreciate some of them.

There are too many companies in Bursa to look at. Unless you can tell me of some compelling reasons why hapseng and Canone, then may be I look in detail and we can share the information and analysis.

cfkhoo

29 posts

Posted by cfkhoo > 2013-05-09 11:52 | Report Abuse

may I add my comments on MBSB. last quarter EPS almost doubled. They are strong competitor of Bank Rakyat now for personal loan financing. Previously concentrated much on mortgage loan I suppose.
Personal loan financing is lucrative and repayment is tru salary deduction and hence NPL is low. For the last 2 years I think they are focusing on the right strategy istead of the mortgage market is saturated and keenly competing amongst the banks to have the larger market share with deteriorating interest margin.

necro

4,726 posts

Posted by necro > 2013-05-09 11:55 | Report Abuse

MBSB another POS...

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