i have not calculated all these in detail for Genting yet.. since you already bought into it, perhaps u can share with us?

based on all those i mentioned above, do you still think Genting is undervalued?

stockman, please share with us your calculation of GENTING and the intrinsic value that you got based on your valuation method...
i am not as good as sifu KC Chong. but i know i would rather use EV/EBIT or EV/EBITDA to calculate instead of using MC/EBIT or MC/EBITDA... the former has a better reflection of its intrinsic value based on the debt/cash/minority interest.. that is also why it is better than using PE multiple... secondly, ROIC is another key thing to look into... then free cash yield... then only P/BV, DY, etc...

yeah... this joker is over-worried.. the world economic cake is so big... everyone can have a share of it if you are competitive enough.. the key word is competitive.. of course coupled with stable quality..

same thing like what I said in SUCCESS forum... for those (not many) who listened to me since day 1.. they are laughing all the way to the bank already.. that is the power of value investing...

u r right sunztzhe.. i have been saying this since day 1... but not many have listened to me.. until now TheStar reported.. then only started to catch some attention.. more to come.. stay tuned..

i understand your stance Raider... yup... we must stop this kind of unethical misleading act...

and dun forget what i told in the past:

Evergreen is improving cash from operations from quarter to quarter, while at the same time, net debt drops from quarter to quarter (as most of the CAPEX for expansions have been used in 2015-16)... and if this condition continues, it will BECOME NET CASH company very soon!!!

Can't you see that coming?
well, sxckperformer aka heaveakrea may not see it... how could this level of "speculators" see all this?

he is either sabotaging evergreen for the good of Hevea, or just too dumb to understand basic accountings... i really feel sad for him.. someone who claimed himself as value investor but do not understand financials... he might as well follow some "dynamic investors" to speculate shares...

shame on him

raider.. no need argue with that joker... from the style he wrote, I am quite certain he is the banned sxckperformer.. haha... now created a new ID to con ppl again... feel sad for him

from the way this joker wrote, it is quite obvious he is a new ID created by the oldtime joker sxckperformer..

and his misleading + manipulated info can be due to the following reasons:

1) He is deeply stuck in Hevea, wanted to beat down Evergreen and try to promote Hevea
2) He is very afraid that Evergreen will emerge as a substantial RTA player (not yet currently) and will eat into Hevea's share market...

If not, why is he so biased and misleading?
He said Evergreen is not diversified.. but what I or the top management (see the news on TheStar) had mentioned that they are diversifying into particleboard and new RTA...

haha... this joker heveakrea (a new ID with just a few comments so far) is probably someone who was suspended due to providing misleading info in i3...

but nvm, let me shoot him right in the face now with facts..

Joker said:
Does the MASSIVE DEBTS RM 205,257,000 disappear or still around? That alone speaks more than a thousand words also.

But joker purposely leave out the fact that Evergreen has a total cash of RM160.308M, as I had mentioned earlier, the net debt is only RM44.949M (after deducting the cash).. why did he purposely leave the cash out? what is the net debt/equity ratio? it is only 44.949/1151.217 = 0.039 or 3.9% (which is what the news on theStar said)..

why you purposely not mention this?

haha... this joker heveakrea (a new ID with just a few comments so far) is probably someone who was suspended due to providing misleading info in i3...

but nvm, let me shoot him right in the face now with facts..

Joker said:
Does the MASSIVE DEBTS RM 205,257,000 disappear or still around? That alone speaks more than a thousand words also.

But joker purposely leave out the fact that Evergreen has a total cash of RM160.308M, as I had mentioned earlier, the net debt is only RM44.949M (after deducting the cash).. why did he purposely leave the cash out? what is the net debt/equity ratio? it is only 44.949/1151.217 = 0.039 or 3.9% (which is what the news on theStar said)..

why you purposely not mention this?

popo92, yes, that is what I have been saying here since long time ago...

well said R40s... if you value a share based on EV/EBIT (trailing 4 quarters), the intrinsic value may change from quarter to quarter...

Based on trailing 4 Qs (as at Q1 2017),
Assume EV/EBIT = 10, EV = 380.850M
Market Cap = 451.586M
Intrinsic value = RM2.5298/share
Margin of safety = 66.43% (if you buy at current price, you can possibly make such profit)

Based on Trailing 4Qs (as at Q2 2017), as the latest EBIT has improved,
Assume EV/EBIT = 10, EV = 402.430M
Market Cap = 479.952M
Intrinsic value = RM2.6887/share
Margin of safety = 76.89% (if you buy at current price, you can possibly make such profit)

nikicheong, i am not sure how you do ur valuations...

but based on my valuations above, do you think it is not cheap buying at current price?

and some joker still shouted out loud that Evergreen has MASSIVE debt???

Its debt to equity ratio stood at 0.04 times against total cash holdings at RM160.31 on Dec 31.

if you all understand what a vertical integration model is.. u will know why i invested in Evergreen...

Evergreen is currently expanding into RTA (furnitures) lines and as they ownselves produce the raw materials (particleboards and MDFs) for the RTA, they can manage the cost better and have a overall better profit margin.. that is the benefit of vertical integration..

secondly.. as some joker (aka sxckperformer) who was still claiming that Evergreen is going to spend more CAPEX in 2017.. which I pointed out that he was wrong that most of the CAPEX had been spent in 2015-2016... and it is not waiting for the fruits to ripe... and what the top management said in the report, matched exactly what I said in the past...

of course, I am not boasting here.. i am not a God ... i don;t know things in the future if there is no clue... but from my own research and studies based on the clues and some news provided, i can link them up to see the big picture.. you can do the same too.. if you are observant and hardworking enough...

investment is all about devotion and doing a lot of homework...

nothing comes for free, for sure..

cheers to those who invested in Evergreen, regardless of whether you bought into it due to your own research or after listening to me previously...

a value investor is one who buys shares when they are trading at a discount and wait for it to realize its intrinsic value...

thanks Jackng06 for your sharing...what stated in the news are all in line with my expectations which I had mentioned long ago:

“Our group’s long-term direction is to diversify away from principally relying on sales of raw MDF boards by going downstream via value-adding and product differentiation. As our furniture offerings are made of panel boards, the completion of the particleboard plant will complement our efforts to expand our downstream ambitions as one of the major raw materials for our furniture products is particleboard,” he said.

Evergreen’s in-house production of intermediate products including the glue, MDF boards and particleboards gives rise to Evergreen’s position of being a true integrated producer from raw boards to boards with overlay and RTA furniture sets.

The projects, when completed, will strengthen Evergreen’s core competencies as well as complement and generate new but related income streams.

Leong said most of the investment costs for the expansion projects had already been accounted for in FY15 and FY16.

“We expect a capex budget of no more than RM50mil for FY17. We think there could be a slight improvement in our financial results this year compared with the previous year, as our expansion projects will start to kick-in in the second half of the year,” he said.

haha... CUTLOST must be a very funny person i guess.. (no offence indeed)...

and I could not stop laughing when one of our friends here said:

InvestIncome: Remiser of CUTLOST earns more than CUTLOST.

haha... our friend CUTLOST must be some "super investor" with his dynamic investing strategy...

and he even deleted his previous posts... haha... but our friend Yong Ji caught him red handed:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yong Ji: Cutlost so fast from uptrend change to downtrend 80c?

CUTLOST: Rm1 coming

Yong Ji: Cutloss so fast u change from 0.800below to 1.0

do you think the boss will buy its share just to earn a few cents? haha...

the boss knows its share price is undervalued... and most likely they know the results are improving..

the boss Kuo family bought a lot of shares these few days:

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/#/?category=all&sub_category=all&alphabetical=All&company=5101

Acquired
04 Apr 2017
336,500
0.854

Acquired
05/04/2017
350,000
0.870

Acquired
06/04/2017
17,500
0.875

Can, you can also pray him like a God everyday, hoping that this "God" will give you some brokerage jobs or "dynamic investing tips"... haha...

Yeah, having a lot of $$$ at age of 85 is indeed not a bad role model for anyone of us here... but that is a matter of how this wealth was created. I would rather benchmark against Warren Buffet, Jack Ma, Robert Kuok, etc...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

stockmanmy: Can I just say I like KYY approach to the stock market?...A very focused guy.

Can buy 30% of Jaks at age 85 is not a bad role model for me.

or hire more PLP fellows (just like one amongst us here) to overly promote him to lure more "water fish" to join his "pump & dump" bandwagons.

i am also curious if that old man will hire sexy girls at his "free" talk to attract the public to join (besides the free Wadyu).. haha

To stockmanmy:

Do you know what is actually disgusting?
Look into a mirror and you will find out (what Icon mentioned below sounds perfectly right! I can't word it any better)

1) jealousy of others when doing better than you, twisting truths to achieve your personal objective
2)zero sum game attitude (attack OTB non stop so as to displace him)
3) willing to totally surrender own respect in order to gain favor of the rich, disregard for right or wrong (Koon is always right)
4) always want to win, and treat people around you with disrespect (cannot imagine what you will become if you one day get rich)

wow.. seems like it has caught more attention today... well done SUCCESS... indeed an undervalued share.. glad that i had purchased it earlier...

actually i prefer to use EV/EBIT valuation over PE.. it is more accurate to calculate intrinsic value that way.

haha... that is exactly what the "super investor" is doing.. there will be a "free talk" later in Ipoh for "sharing investment tips and helping the poor to create wealth".. haha

like CharlesT said, must go ya.. if they serve Wadyu beef...

well said to CharlesT too... haha

haha.... well said icon, especially on this one:

attack OTB non stop so as to displace him

it is super obvious that every one can notice this "super-PLP" fellow is trying to get some job from the "Super_investor"...

his motive/personal agenda is super obvious... can the old man see it? haha...

what KC wrote here is absolutely right... I am thinking exactly the same.
my salutes to sifu KC Chong! (I do not need to PLP KC Chong to get any tips though, haha)

haha... if Stockraider and CharlesT are habitual liars, stockmanmy is a habitual PLP fellow. But he is a very professional and consistent PLP master as he only PLP one old guy (perhaps trying to win that old man's trust to empower him to be one of his remisiers?)... haha

well done Zhulian... finally it made a successful u-turn on both revenue/profit & share price!

wow... Jon Choivo has insider's news.. good.. haha...
pls share more with us... thanks...

today's hike has caught attention of many. Let me share some accounting evaluation of GESHEN.

(assumed 2017 EBIT & EPS is annualized from 2016 Q4 results)

Market Cap at RM2.17 = RM166.89M
Enterprise Value = RM214.379M
EBIT = 31.024M
EY = EBIT/EV = 14.4715% (Great)

Invested Cap = 108.910M
EBIT = 31.024M
ROIC = EBIT/IC = 28.4859% (Fantastic!)

Valuation:

Let's assume GEshen should be trading at EV/EBIT= 10. EV will be RM310.34M
Market Cap (MC) will be 262.751M
Intrinsic value based on EV/EBIT=10 will be RM3.4164 per share

If u want to use PE multiple:
Assume PE = 10, annualized 2017 EPS = 34.84sen
Fair price = RM3.484 per share

let's take the average of the above 2 valuations:
it is RM3.4502.

now you probably can see why it recently caught a lot of attention.. nothing is coincident and nothing happened without a reason...

yeah.. his lovely daughter Ivanka! haha

i know ocncash has great potential... fundamental wise, good too.
but i am also curious why a single day it can go up so much... so i am wondering if anyone has some insights to share...

guys, anyone knows of why it goes up a lot today? I am quite curious (though very excited too, haha)

well said guys.. i think each of you have a point here... I personally do not think this kind of labor intensive business will be moved back to the US...

eYuppie... patience is the key... the recent mega projects just started and have not contributed significantly to the revenue and net profit... but it is just a matter of time for HSL to recognize this huge revenue and profits... it wont be long... just need slightly more patience..

yeah, Raider.. no worry... i do feel that in 2nd half of 2017, their results will improve significantly...
I have mentioned this very very long time before, even before the release of their latest report... it seems that what I forecast is quite close to what the management just announced. so no worry, just wait and see...

you are welcome Raider... Forum is a place where we share real info among each others (unlike some joker/loser who keeps manipulating info and misleading ppl)

haha... very sarcastic ya InvestIncome...

haha... well said raider... we know what KYY's real intention is... it is pretty obvious.. and it is also pretty obvious that there is a super PLP trying to get some candies from this old guy... haha

well said ragingharrypotato...

another reason of course is its improvement in revenue and profit...

agree with what ragingharrypotato said...

SUCCESS financials have improved tremendously... that is also why i bought into it...

bear in mind that during the initial start-up stage, higher operation cost is expected.. this is also stated in their latest quarterly report:

the Group expects a soft start to 2017 but expects improvements as the year progresses with the coming online of the Group’s major projects.

so I would expect the particleboard + the new RTA lines will be fully commissioned by Q3 or Q4 of 2017.

A few things to note:
1) Evergreen already have existing RTA line (though only producing around 5% of total revenue). So they have experience in this area and it is not a new thing to them. It won't require a long period of time as learning curve for them.

2) they purchased new machineries for advanced particleboard which can churn out thinner and higher grade particleboard, that can sell at better margin. The management had mentioned before that there is no/very few existing particleboard players in the market who can produce such grade of particleboard.. so it is for a niche market with better profit margin

therefore like what i mentioned before, do not expect a quick improvement by Q1 or Q2 2017.. as the new operations will likely to contribute more significantly by end of this year...

so for short-term traders, this share may not suit you..

but for value investors, this is the right one for you.