What makes sense?

1. Internal parties know something bad is coming, hence keep selling with some volume resulting in price drops.

2. A show between different coordinated parties to create bad technical/chart, and some fear mongering in forums to collect tickets before next planned push.

3. Natural buy/sell forces in the market (no operators involvement except for liquidity provision) causes price to keep dropping because of market sentiment, economic situation, global scenes, etc even though company performances are in the green compared with peers in construction sector.

I choose to believe in 2.
In this case the operators are both the market liquidity provider (buy/sell queue magically appear/disappear) and the outsourced institutional investors for penny stocks (creating volumes, exchanging tickets, left to right etc).

scrown To convert ICPS, u need to come out $0.12 not $0.13, please don't simply guess.

Method 1 - surrender 13 PA to get 1 mother. Cost to obtain one mother is $0.13 because you paid $0.01 for one PA during the subscription.

Method 2
scenario A - surrender minimum 1 PA and pay balance of 12 PA to get one mother. Your cost to obtain one mother is $0.13 because you earlier paid $0.01 for the 1 PA during subscription and now during conversion you paid additional $0.12 for the 12 PA.

scenario B - surrender X number of PA and pay balance of 13 minus X number of PA. No matter how you slice and dice, you still end up paying $0.13 to obtain one mother in the entire process (subscription and conversion).

@swimwithsharkss: Yes, you're right, after reading the ICPS circular again, the actual cost of conversion is 13 cents and not 14 cents. Apologies for the confusion.

If operators and PA holders (insiders) are working together, then it makes sense for these PA holders not to sell at profit because the tickets will end up back into their own team (into operator's buy queue in open market, which I believe are the majority of buy/sell queue in almost every counter).

For those PA holders such as retailers or non-insiders, facing such economy turmoil where having more cash is always better than holding shares, most would already sell at 50%, 100% or higher profit in open market.

Hence agreed there's some manipulation here in forum, in corporate actions (ICPS conversion) etc, so that public's opinion can be swayed to a certain degree into believing something as part of the 'plan'.

Also, having a larger base of mother shares especially from the ICPS conversion is always better than having less during the price action of the 'plan'.

Also, a question that many of us would not have an answer to -

If a holder converts using method 1 - surrender 13 ICPS to get 1 mother, how will this announcement differs to method 2 - pay $0.13 to get 1 mother?

Else we will always fall into the illusion by the many conversion announcements thinking that someone is buying mother at a premium (subscribe and convert for a total of 0.14, not just convert @ 0.13)...

unclekyyisbest There are both scenario, but what if fable statement is correct.

What if statement by fable unlikely to be applicable for 'outsiders' like us retailers, but may be applicable to 'insiders' as they know what the current end game is.

Unless there is a plan to pump mother beyond ICPS price (0.12), expect few months of flat price movement for AGES, until the next milestone (ICULS completion date between Oct-Dec)...

Subscribing to the revised ICULS is like paying 0.1 to buy a mother share. If ICULS subscription is effective today, buying mother at 0.095 seems like a better choice, but need to queue everyday until get 0.095.

However, one big advantage of subscribing is to hope that the ICULS price appreciates beyond 0.025 within the next 10 years (maturity period), then sell at @ 0.03 for a minimum 20% profit!

Hence likely the price will stay within ~0.1 nearing to subscription date, else not many 'outsiders' will subscribe because buying @ 0.10 is an immediate 5% loss compared to buying from market @ 0.095 or lower. Then the immediate 5% loss needs to be covered by ICULS price appreciation, which is anyone's guess post exercise...

What I'm trying to point out is that it is very unlikely for an investor to pay $0.14 in the total process of subscribing and converting 1 PA to 1 mother.

The most logical choice for those who want to convert is to subscribe PA at $0.01 per share, then surrendering 13 PA for conversion into 1 mother. The whole process of subscribing and converting is $0.13, and I believe that's the lowest cost you can get even considering the option of cash + 13 to 1 conversion.

The more ideal choice for PA holders is always to wait for PA price in open market to go higher than $0.01, then easily sell just one bid higher for a big 50% gain. That's what some of the older articles few months back is trying to point out at the upcoming ICULS exercise.

Let's say I managed to subscribe 100,000 PA shares in 2020.

1. Subscribe 100,000 PA @ $0.01 per share = $1,000
2. Convert 100,000 PA @ $0.13 per share into 100,000 mother share = $13,000

In total I paid $1,000 + $13,000 = $14,000 to obtain 100,000 mother share.

My cost per mother share is $14,000 / 100,000 = $0.14

Also, if earlier during the rights issue you paid $0.01 to subscribe 1 PA share, and now you need to pay $0.13 to convert 1 PA, effectively in total you are shelling out $0.14 to subscribe and convert 1 PA into 1 mother share.

So investors who paid $0.01 earlier to buy/subscribe 1 PA share, now they need to pay another $0.13 to convert 1 PA share into 1 mother? Does not make much sense right?

What this means is that the latest 2 conversion you see in August are simply just surrendering PA shares (which you paid earlier for $0.01 per share subscription) into mother shares.

Because you need to surrender 13 PA shares to get 1 mother share, hence indirectly you are paying $0.13 to buy a mother share.

AllanTingAS Still have investor made conversion of PS -8,800,000 at 0.13 !! Paying extra of RM264,000 instead buying in open market?

If you go to Disclosure -> Additional Listing, then click on page 2, you'll see the top 2 records having different 'Price':
Type Unit Price
Conversion of Preference Shares 140,000 0.130
Conversion of Preference Shares 140,000 18,200.000

Unless the above is an error, then my assumption below:
-The first one is conversion using 13 PA = 1 mother without cash, meaning surrender 13 PA for one mother share. Since earlier you paid $0.01 to subscribe one PA, surrendering 13 PA means you paid $0.13.
-The second one is using real cash to convert (140,000 PA - 1 minimum to surrender) @ $0.13 hence you get $18,200 as the Price. $18,200 is calculated by 139,999 x $0.13, then rounded to whole number.

I assume the above is correct until someone with more info can confirm?

https://nojabforme.info/

So far one of the most thorough website for you anti-vax out there!

It's the same for ghost/supernatural phenomenon. Unless someone can convinced me that every single ghost/supernatural stories, news, personal testimonies, researches, videos, books etc etc are fake for whatever reason, I do and always choose to believe in the ghost/supernatural.

@stockfreak: when a source is questionable, so is all the subsequent and downstream actions eg. vaccine development, covid positive cases and death etc.

Unless someone can convinced me that all the "imaginary virus" information I read are ultimately linked to and created by an elite group to promote fake news for whatever reason, my stand is still the same - the virus is 'imaginary' and because fear of death is the best weapon in this covert agenda, we are facing the global situation now.

Vaccinated against an 'imaginary' virus?

Unless someone can convinced me that all the news/links/sources over the internet in multitude of different sources all over the world are perpetrated ultimately by the same group of ultra elite super fake content creators, my stand is the same.

leno People do care whether leno make millions or not.
If leno do not make millions, or if leno lose a lot of money,
will u or any dog or donkeys listen to leno.
The answer is obviously ... NO.
That is why, leno always ask ... lu sudah kaya kah belum ?

Sorry leno, I question everything, even if you are Warren Buffet, or Leno the self made multi-millionaire. Whether you make millions or lose millions, I try to take the good points wherever possible. Eg. consider buying Insas-wc after doing research etc, but will never sailang into it.

Proclaiming oneself as the OLDEST investor with undisputable reputation, asking people to SAILANG, saying any dog/donkeys will only listen to people who made millions - totally no no to me. Sorry but to me you are just another retailer like any of us here, but respect you for who you are.

Oh one last thing, please stop promoting other counters or your self made story here in JAKS forum, much appreciated!

Leno: Honestly, I think not many care about your selfish promotion/advice regardless of your millions earned or wins you had. No right or wrong, but general consensus would agree that warrant is always a riskier investment, hence your sailang all in comment is a red flag in itself. Not to mention calling people donkey!

Ginduchti Bankers collecting at 19-20cts level and sell all at 22-22.5cts , simple as that

Reasonable point, but would also like to point out that not much retailers/traders are buying here due to lack of corporate news/promotions, unstable local scene and just general low market sentiment.

In that case think likely more tickets end up back in the bankers/market makers' hands than being successfully sold to outsiders..

Mabel Haha real good one pipi...
You will never be poor by giving to charity...
Usually your wealth will multiple...
Trust me..
Meow

I no belif this catty on above. It's not the action, but the intention itself. Of course karma plays a role too, but some can still use reality/visual manifestation because karma has no effect on them!
Woof Woof

@andytfyap, I strongly believe ikan bilis nowadays are way more aware than how they used to be due to ease of information sharing via internet (like this forum and yourself), hence it is no longer an easy job for them anymore. OK maybe I'm over-positive, but seeing people like yourself and other good folks commenting here is proof enough for me!

If they simply want to make the price fall like waterfall, they can easily do it since most companies also deals with the market makers (controller/price dictator/liquidity provider). Hence it not happening simply means it's not as easy just to simply manipulate price by having large amount of shares alone. Just like how we retailers fight amongst us, they do have different conflicting parties too...

@andytfyap, sorry about your losses and thanks for sharing your side of story. Am still holding paper loss at 0.14 cost, and will not sell unless at breakeven or profit.

I have held worst stock (and even avg down) like Trive/Vivocom and one scandal overseas stock for years before, but at the end my persistence won and with good profits too!

@andytfyap, we will never know the answer right. But it's an indication that the subscribers is pumping money via official channel into company for something (cook the book, cook the price later etc). Or cook the public direction into believing a certain something. But it's according to the plan for sure, so why not just do some self-improvement while patiently watching the show haha..

Market to small fries? Unless their full holdings are at a very low cost, I doubt they will gain by releasing to small fry. Everybody is entitled to their opinion decision etc, so don't want to comment much on your statement.

Anyway, from esoteric point of view, stock market has 2 types of predators to feed on:
1. those that earn from you by buying low and selling high via pump and dump etc -- this is the general public view
2. those that will keep selling even though at loss, but gain by feeding on your despair -- this is the nonsensical, obscure esoteric view

if go holland, all big shareholders also holland... unless they want throw money into sea, doubt it will delist, worst case holland until a point when it is too attractive to topup... those not subscribe to RI will have their cash ready...

Yeah, like in a quote "Let the food run dry and the predator will have no choice but to switch their appetite". Retailer don't buy/sell equates to letting the food run dry for the players. Let the players eat/fight among themselves until they have no choice but to pump the price haha...

But honestly speaking, this world has unlimited food (fool) every minute hence food will not run out for the predators. I think humanity need another few centuries to achieve a new age where stock market (financial tool for the elite) is non-existent.

For those who skipped the Rights Issue, now is still not the time to buy yet as the big buy queue at 0.20 for previous weeks is gone. Potential to go down is higher than going up at this moment.

Even on the wider local scene, things are not stable yet for sharks to make any move in most counters anyway... let company use their own gang money until they run out for another corporate announcement...

KPMG's action to visit the site is similar to the visual novel game World End Economica part 2, where the main protagonist takes an impossible approach to visit an offsite area far outside the city to check on the existence of power plants of an 'evil' mega corp electricity company that earns huge profits from electricity generation to the public.

At the end this "walk the talk" action escalates to events that exposes the fraud of the evil corporation. It shows that KPMG is not just your typical armchair auditor, but one that goes the extra mile to take action in the field.

Looks like Serbadk business process is not matured at all.

In Petronas, vendor/customer registration process is so strict that a small mistake would prevent any transaction, not to mention that there's a bunch of legal documentations to be submittedprior to approval for use in Petronas. Mada mada dane Serbadk, please learn from the father ok!

waiting u guys sell, see annual report many retailers in top 30... shark also scared push with many u guys in the boat... and without strong catalyst to garner interest from public, coupled with current situation locally... market is tough for everyone including market makers, better focus on other stuffs and let this sleeping dog lie la...

Serbakd is a multi billion cap company? Don't joke can or not, in Petronas eye this vendor is small fly. Don't believe, better you do as I have access to its system, unlike many jokers just copy and paste from other articles and give own subjective view ---

1. No PO ever raised by Petronas Carigali group to Serbakd IT Solutions Sdn Bhd - contradict to its claim in Serbadk IT website.

2. Serbadk contract with Petronas just expired 31-May 2021. Also the contract value very insignificant compared to many other O&G players. This explain why most Petronas POs to Serbadk O&G (not Serbadk IT) is small for such a so-called big O&G player in Malaysia.

3. Serbadk IT Solutions Sdn Bhd has never logged in to Petronas vendor portal, this also proved that no real transaction (bidding, quotation, PO, invoice) has ever been done between Petronas and Serbadk IT - again contradict to its claim in Serbadk IT website.

Come on guys, seeing all other copy pasta subjective view is so boring, need more genuine novelty stuff like above so the audience can get excited during the show ma! But owned a few thousands RM worth of shares in Serbadk though, hope the worst this gets, the higher the price can shoot -- coz here is Bolehland!

My own red flag in Serba IT - no system PO ever raised from Petronas Carigali company to Serba Dinamik IT Solutions Sdn Bhd vendor, but in Serba IT website it mentioned Carigali as one of its client. Just a short 15 minutes system search, believe it or not...

Evil triumphs when good people do nothing, thank god for KPMG in this case!

Some of the audit issues raised by KPMG were elementary, such as differences in the names or addresses of Serba Dinamik’s clients in contracts and invoice documents — which Serba Dinamik explained as being administrative in nature or were merely typing errors.

The auditor also found discrepancies in the commercial registration addresses of certain suppliers and customers, such as housing a supermarket or labour accommodation. Serba Dinamik’s responses included that the party had moved office or that the auditor visited a wrong address.


This kind of supplier/customer typo mistake will never happen in Petronas where it has one of the most advanced procurement digital platform in the country. The payment process is so stringent where even a single difference in wording will get rejected outright. Serbadk thinks the public are kids?

Due to Serbadk's drama, an old article raises similar doubts for BIOHLDG:
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/TimelessInvestment/2020-07-26-story-...

This post by a forumer adds to the concern:
Killsthebear Hainan Shifengfu Co. Ltd (“HSCL”), who gave Bioalpha contract, incorporated in Feb 2020, owned few listed companies (or substantial shareholder)
m3tech
fihb
Ritamix (HK)
Besides that, after searched Guizhou government website, cant found they win any tender ... sketchy
Last Friday Ritamix plunged 82.76% in one day. What's next?
03/08/2020 1:33 AM

Searched online and couldn't find any chinese website or information relating to the 2 China parties who awarded the contract. Though the last 2 quarter reports did announced sales from China contract, but unless the accounts are audited, any Tom Dick Harry accountant also can cook up the books like how Serbadk did??

Another sad note in the annual report: majority of Mediconstant properties owned in 2019 are no longer in the 2020 report.

Thanks hakubasnow for clarifying the price range of these OR/PR during its listing date.

Anyway, not sure if someone buys OR/PR from open market during the listing period (26/04/21 to 03/05/21), can these be subscribed on time for the mother share and PA? Ie. submit your form to company and hope your application is on time and successful..

If yes those who bought PR @ 0.005 from open market is considered a steal (even directors have to buy @ 0.02), or else whatever you bought just gone like smoke haha..

As compared to upcoming AGES ICULS warrant, BIOHLDG ICPS is clearly a very low pobability win (or only small profit if sold) for non-insiders.

BIOHLDG-PA subscription price is 0.02 (for those hold mother share and subscribe earlier including the many directors), but its opening price is 0.065 which is a 325% jump in price.

hakubasnow above assumed you can buy BIOHLDG-PR @ 0.005 and later convert to PA. Didn't monitor the OR/PR opening and listing price during their tenure, but I believe it is very unlikely you can get PR @ 0.005 even for RM500, as this implies you are getting a price way below anyone including the directors.

In short, a mini trap to catch retailers attracted by the PA 325% jump in opening price, or possibly warrant traders who bought and convert the OR.

Those who owned mother share and subscribe the PR should be safe though, but I believe the capital invested in PR is quite small so it is nothing to shout about - as compared to the directors who don't need to own huge amount of mother share and are simply entitled to buy OR @ 0.02 with capital 200k each.

khpwwl I didnt subscribe for PR or OR...wait it drop below 0.20, ....let william take over all OR, then he will goreng...hahaha

Same, already invested quite a bit, not worth to topup more in a single counter unless further big discount (pobability play using batches, at least never failed me anyway). Putting too much portion of capital into a single equity / type of investment is never a good thing...

Comparing what I experienced on 2 counters, Bioalpha's RI/ICPS is considered somehow a failure?
Case 1 - Vivocom RI at 0.025 is a very very big discount when it was announced in 2018
Case 2 - JAKS latest RI last year is also a very big discount

Unlikely to push high for now, most logical is just a small push to encourage RI/ICPS subscription for those who still hold the OR/PR. With you guys holding strong and keep averaging down, only real fat sharks can make it go way higher I think... currently such volume can push this few bids is considered small nia... or operator wayang lo what else... anyway still good - go low can average more, go high is always good hahha

Mr Ooi hard to follow one, he bought some useless stocks also like Dynaciate. Abit worry he's just another proxy to trap retailers who like to follow 'famous' investor to buy in...

Scylla I don't like cut loss so average only

Sama sama Scylla. Don't sell, no one can earn from you, but you also cannot earn from cutting loss and going into next potential one (which takes much more % to earn back the same capital).

Doesn't matter as long as got other source of income ya.. investment is not day day or week week give you income, some can be long waiting time also.. as long as the >80% is there in the market haha...

Oh yeah, not sure when but Carsome has lots of its second hand car parked in the basement of Evolve Concept mall in Ara Damansara. If you are familiar with Carsome, this is definitely a positive news to the income of the mall as it will definitely increase foot traffic!

Thanks Sslee. Read up a bit and it seems like this Equity Accounting model is just another type of accounting used for dealing with subsidiaries etc depending on the business itself. Good news is that the concession income can be reported in JAKS book at 30% of revenue generated from the Vietnam plant.

I read in articles since 2015 that this BOT power plant concession will provide income/revenue to Jaks as a whole and not some vague associate company thing, this was even mentioned in the latest 2020 annual report and recent quarter report. Also didn't read about any dividend or so from such concession? I thought the source of revenue is from Vietnam government instead of public, sorry but I've worked in Tenaga projects before hence is a bit familiar with such special purpose vehicle type of operating model.

Maybe I'm not familiar with how this associate company revenue will be reported in a company's books, will need your explanation to clear this doubt, thanks!

Sslee Vietnam power plant is 30% associate company of JAKS hence it will not contribute any revenue to JAKS but share of profit which is non cash book profit and will be taken out in cash flow.
The only cash flow will be dividend received from the Vietnam power plant if power plant declared dividend to the shareholder.

@Sslee: not sure what do you mean by the revenue cannot be recognized in the books? Are you saying that all the concession recurring income from commercial operation can never be reported as revenue in future upcoming quarter results, due to this relationship of JAKS and its associate company JAKS Pacific Power Limited (who owns 30% Vietnam power plant)?

Entitlement date announced for both normal share and ICPS Rights Issue. Only 2 weeks timeframe for company to entice shareholders subscription.

Not sure why not many comments on this Rights Issue with regards to own case, but at today's price I can simply spend the same amount and buy from market to arrive at the same averaged down price (only difference of 1 sen). Bear in mind that price may go down a bit more due to share dilution after the normal RI share listing. Which presents another window opportunity to buy from market at even further discount than today!

Another opportunity for bottom fishing is end May where next quarter will be announced barring any delay. If result is disappointed, this time impact is much worst, price can dip below 0.20 - as the community is expecting a turnaround due to China sales. The best thing from this exercise is don't need to spend admin effort to subscribe, can simply buy online at the click of a mouse!

luckypunting for now Bioalpha is goreng counter

@luckypunting : Bioalpha is always goreng counter and never a good growth or fundamental one. Its business foundation cannot even sustain one mid global crisis, source of income not flexible enough, insufficient cash to even maintain its China contract. If not because of the supply agreement, everyone can kiss goodnight for a long time to come already.

Oh yeah, its Apotec product is also overpriced!

At 0.20 per RI and 0.02 per ICPS, even at maximum scenario where each ICPS is fully converted, the difference between this maximum scenario and buying from market at current price offers very little difference.

I think either below will happen if this is the case at the END OF THIS EXERCISE:
1) not much subscription from investors especially retailers
OR
2) price must be AT LEAST few bids above 0.22 to attract subscription, else people can just buy from open market, especially if price drops a little further!

The above is true for me, not sure about the others though. Unless you think can earn from the ICPS share by not converting but selling it later when price goes up, but then the amount is very small only as compared to your capital.

I think this is a failed rights issue exercise haha...

During EGM, William mentioned that China sales is encouraging, has received good government feedback from the China subsidiary setup for the sales agreement, and year 2021 will see faster sales recovery from China and Malaysia, though Indonesia will be the slowest.

Nothing much that most of us don't already know... though the shocking thing is that the poll results has the most 'against' vote I've ever seen among other counters... usually only had a few 'against' vote but this time it's just... maybe others had seen worst but this one it's the worst for me...this is in terms of number of shareholders, roughly about 1/4 are voting 'against'...