Posted by gtlam > 2013-09-30 20:10 | Report Abuse

it is good to hear tht the independent director is buying rather than selling even though the qty is little.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-09-30 21:34 | Report Abuse

gtlam: It does seem that way. Too bad he's actually interpreting disclosure laws to 7 trading days rather than 7 days. :P

Posted by xyzsim > 2013-10-02 11:42 | Report Abuse

any news for this counter ..

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-02 19:39 | Report Abuse

hi! taciturn : anything to share with relate to the new shareholings listing after ng disposal? surprisngly there is no new substantial shareholding announcement even after ng more than 30% shares disposal.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-03 11:49 | Report Abuse

gtlam: Nothing yet. My friend says he's still waiting to get the latest listing of shareholders for the company. He says he'll let me know the moment he gets it. Will update here when he does.

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-03 20:03 | Report Abuse

taciturn: thank you.

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-03 21:29 | Report Abuse

i have always advised investors to avoid this stock unless u know the syndicates or major shareholders playing up the share price...con stock I would say....

Posted by xyzsim > 2013-10-04 09:05 | Report Abuse

hopeless

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-04 09:15 | Report Abuse

yup...hopeless stock/company....

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-04 12:35 | Report Abuse

slow-death counter...hehehe

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-04 12:35 | Report Abuse

slow-death counter...hehehe

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-04 12:35 | Report Abuse

slow-death counter...hehehe

Posted by Ameera > 2013-10-04 13:18 | Report Abuse

The FACT is Hopeless & Con counter!
Am in dreamland with "Hope Analysis" ... Stucked at high price...

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-04 14:40 | Report Abuse

empty promises...con company mah

Posted by Fortunebull > 2013-10-04 14:41 | Report Abuse

Ha! Where got green ocean! Only blue ocean!

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-04 14:43 | Report Abuse

futuristic company mah...always imagine the impossibles...

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-04 16:56 | Report Abuse

keep dropping . soon reaching 15 cents

Posted by minitrader > 2013-10-04 16:59 | Report Abuse

yup...looks like it...headingfor 13-15sen...babai gocean...

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-04 20:06 | Report Abuse

taciturn :it is more than a mth since 26 august but kenanga has yet to submit the notes and free warrant proposals to the sc for apporaval.the time frame is 2 mths. any idea on this?

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-05 22:33 | Report Abuse

gtlam: Due diligence by Kenanga takes at least one month (this is from the date of announcement on the 26th of August). Once that is done, the company will make announcement on bursa. At that point (I'm following the process as Censof did it), they submit to SC & Bursa for approval and at the same time to Bank Negara (since the note holders are a foreign entity). Approval should take another month or so.

Earliest everything should be done is some time in November. But my friend says it's more likely that it'll only be completed sometime in mid-December. November is the optimistic view that everything is approved in the shortest period of time with no back and forth between all the different parties.

Posted by Hong2 > 2013-10-06 08:13 | Report Abuse

@taciturn....your views, possible going to PN17? TQ

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-06 12:00 | Report Abuse

Hong2: I relooked at the company's financials again to see how close it is to breaching GN3 (the Ace Market equivalent of PN17 - which is for main board companies).

Looking at the criteria, the only clause the company is at risk of breaching is 2.1.g. (the auditors have expressed a modified opinion with emphasis on the listed corporation's going concern in the listed corporation's latest audited financial statements and the shareholders' equity of the listed corporation is 50% or less of the issued and paid-up capital and the listed corporation;)

As the end of 2013. Audited shareholders equity is RM13.98m against a paid up of RM20.26m. That's about 69%,. To hit the 50% mark, the company would have to post a loss of at least RM3.85m for 2014.

At the same time, auditor's have to say the company is no longer a going concern (you're not doing any business/no revenue).

How likely is this to happen and when?

First, the annual audited accounts for 2014 will only be issued at the end of July, 2014. So the earliest you can see the auditor making a modified opinion is at that time.

Will the company post at least RM3.85m in losses for the year? That's difficult to say. 1Q2014, losses were high at RM1.3m. That means the company has wiggle room of RM2.55m for the next 3 quarters. Not much right?

So yes, if everything else fails, no notes program, it's likely that the company will head for GN3. But that's after July 2014.

And let's face it, if the auditor shows concern since you've got no business, the company is doomed anyway.

If the notes program works out though, upon the issuance of the notes (assuming the company draws down all RM100 million), company's total equity goes to RM26.458m (see Notes announcement form bursa - 26 August 2013, page 19. Proforma 1, estimated equity component of the notes - RM19.123m).

RM26.458m (total equity after notes)/ RM20.26m (paid up capital) is 130% making GN3 a very very far thing at that point in time.


So how likely will the company hit GN3? Personally, I don't think it's that likely. The company's got some wiggle room and time to get the notes program in place. Once in, we're set.

Any one who screams at you, "company going to die next month, lousy stock, sure pn17 in November etc etc" is the type of person who's spewing crap out of his ass.

As always, fair warning, I'm not a professional investor so it's a good idea to ask your broker whether I'm right or wrong in my reading of GN3.

If your broker is the old school type (heh) who doesn't read bursa guidelines too, try calling your brokerage and ask to speak to someone in research or even compliance (they usually understand the regulations better).

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-06 13:03 | Report Abuse

the company will enter gn3 only when the shareholders fund is at 25% or below of share paid up capital? if the company charging out the corporate exericise fee RM8.4 million within a year before the notes program take place, then the company will be in trouble.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-06 17:38 | Report Abuse

gtlam: One of the possible clauses for breaching GN3 is where shareholder funds are below 25% of paid up capital. There are other clauses as well, including the one I listed above which is probably the highest "at risk" clause of being breached.

My reply to the second part of your statement, not exactly. There's an equity portion to the notes (it's not all listed as RM100m liabilities in the balance sheet) as per notes announcement from bursa - 26 August 2013, page 19. Proforma 1, RM19.123m.

If you look at that page, under Section 5.3, look under Notes: 1)

"Being the estimated equity component of the Notes after deducting the fair value of the liability component of RM78.8m and the estimated expenses of RM8.4m in relation to the Proposals which have been apportioned to the equity component of the Notes amounting to RM1.8m."

And accumulated losses increases to RM16.408m, where the same section Notes 2) states:

"After deducting the estimated expenses of RM8.4m in relation to the Proposals which have apportioned to the liability component of the Notes amounting to RM6.6m."


If you look at the same page, under Proforma I, upon issuance of the Notes, total equity increases to RM26.458m versus a paid up capital of RM20.26m.

So no, nowhere near the 25% GN3 mark.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-06 17:40 | Report Abuse

And of course the RM8.4m fee is only incurred upon all approvals of the notes program and its issuance. You don't get charged before it happens.

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-07 20:30 | Report Abuse

taciturn: any new update on the new shareholders listing?

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-08 09:10 | Report Abuse

gtlam: Still nothing as my friend's still waiting. He pointed out that under the companies act, the registrar has 21 days to send the members listing when requested. Am hoping that it won't take until October 21 to get a copy.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-08 11:26 | Report Abuse

subramaniam: Haven't heard anything. Which Korean are you talking about?

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-08 14:29 | Report Abuse

subramaniam: Didn't know that. As the end of August, Lee Yen Sin was one of the 10 largest shareholders with a stake of 3.1m shares. Hardly think that a stake of that size would affect the price that much.

Posted by khalid > 2013-10-08 16:54 | Report Abuse

Bro - bukan Lee Yee Sin tetapi Ng Chiew Eng @ Ng Chiew Ming - buang 30 mil.

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-08 21:23 | Report Abuse

lee yen sin amd his indirect company heshbon co.ltd shareholding have reduced from 18.15% to 8.64% as at 31 July 2013 based on the recent annual report.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-09 09:09 | Report Abuse

Heshbon has sold down about a month back as per bursa announcements.

Friend has showed me the shareholder register as of September 26.

There were 1630 shareholders as at July 31.

There were 1735 as August 29.

There were 2075 as at September 26.

For those of you wondering who bought up Ng's shareholding, there you go. It's not by one person, it's by quite a number of them.

As at that date, Ng no longer owns one single share in the company. Heshbon also does not own a single share in the company. Lee Yen Sin's stake remained unchanged.


I was shown the highlights of who the new (bigger) shareholders of the company are, but even the biggest owns less than 5 million shares (individually) or less than 8 million (if family).

The amounts aren't big enough on their own to make a dent on the share price.

My friend requests that I don't state out the names of the bigger shareholders here simply because he feels it's very open to misinterpretation. There seem to be a lot of people who get excited when a big name owns a million shares in the company (it's a sign of takeover mah!) when it could be nothing more than an investment.

He states though that there are no changes big enough in the list (and I agree after looking at it) to worry/encourage anyone. The whole things remains at status quo as far as we are concerned.

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-09 10:05 | Report Abuse

why korean sold off all his stake in heshon? it indicated that he also lost the confident in the company.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-09 10:58 | Report Abuse

Not going to keep repeating my answers to the same questions. Feel free to scroll up and look at my previous comments.

Of course if anyone cares to interject with an answer, carry on.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-09 11:44 | Report Abuse

subramaniam: I completely disagree with your statements. You're implying that the only person allowed to be an ED of the company is one who not only owns shares, but has to be a major shareholder at that. No professional managers allowed. If you sell down your stake, you must resign.

By your logic whoever has the biggest stake at the moment should become the boss of the company. Never mind what the board nomination committee says.

And the biggest irony of it all is that I'm looking at the shareholders register for the 26th. The person with the biggest stake (family wise) has at least 7.75m shares. If he became the MD, half of you would probably shit bricks.

Why is that? Because whilst his name is not very well known, he was an executive of a company that went kaput on bursa in one hell of a blaze of glory.

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-09 12:13 | Report Abuse

now the question is who is actually behind the board?

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-09 12:18 | Report Abuse

sunrise: No one. There's no hidden/vested interests behind the board. Independent directors are just that, independent (usually).

Of the two EDs, Kua is a legacy ED from the days when Green Ocean used to be known as Online One.

The other ED, Mckin came in to basically turn around the company into Green Ocean. Right now he's a professional manager who whilst not having a direct stake, seems to have a lot of friendly parties (i.e. Pronob) who believe in his vision.

Note that the friendly parties are not major shareholders, but there are a fair number of them.

So no, there doesn't seem to be any "hidden hands" guiding the board.

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-09 12:35 | Report Abuse

subramaniam: if you dislike how the company is being run or who is running it, why don't you write in to the board to voice your concerns.

Specifically to the chairman of the board (asking that either one or both EDs be removed) as well as the chairmen of both the nomination (to see out a replacement for one or both EDs) and remuneration committees (asking the salaries be cut).

You could have also either taken the effort to attend the AGM (or sent a proxy) to voice your displeasure/concerns.


And on to having a major shareholder running the firm, that's a mere supposition on your part. Yes it's nice and wonderful to have one running the firm but let me state a very clear fact.

There are _NO_ (none, zero, does not exist, nil) major shareholders in the company holding a minimum of 5% in the company.

Who then do you suggest in running the company?

Or are you demanding that the EDs _must_ buy and hold a major stake in the company to continue holding their positions. (This is so laughably illogical that I'm not even going to waste my time and putting for and against arguments)


For someone to use the valuation of a person's shareholding to be equitable to their executive position on the company (and salary) is illogical.

Perhaps you have it in your mind that the EDs in the company are shaking legs, the type who go into the office at 10am (or 11am), break for a 3 hour lunch at 12pm, and be home by 3pm just in time for a spot of afternoon tea with scones.

The reality I believe is very far different than your assumptions.


Perhaps you should write in to nominate the largest shareholder (minimum of 7.75m shares) to take over as MD. Surely that will make you more comfortable no?

Just FYI, he used to be an executive of Fountain View Developments Bhd.

No doubt he'd make an excellent candidate to take over the company (by your logic of having a large stake).

Posted by taciturn > 2013-10-09 12:38 | Report Abuse

I think it's pointless for me to keep posting onto this board.

I like to give as many good fundamental answers (or as fundamental as can be) when someone asks a question. But pointless suppositions and the like just irritate me.

I'll no longer be answering any comments/statements/questions on this board. Good luck to all of you, hopefully we all make money in the end.

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-09 17:05 | Report Abuse

are you offering to takeover from them?

Posted by yap88 > 2013-10-10 12:10 | Report Abuse

just buy or sell ur shares n shut up. =>

Posted by Tripaka > 2013-10-10 12:28 | Report Abuse

See, no good company, shares go up...

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-10 13:44 | Report Abuse

welcome back . it is just beginning

Posted by xyzsim > 2013-10-10 16:35 | Report Abuse

yeah ...coming back

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-10 19:55 | Report Abuse

taciturn" cool down. Thank you for your valuable information to share with us. Please email to me at gtlam850@yahoo.com if u have any information to share in future. Thank you.

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-10 19:55 | Report Abuse

wht is the tp ?

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-11 08:38 | Report Abuse

50 cents?

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-11 10:29 | Report Abuse

1 day show?

Posted by sunrise > 2013-10-14 12:07 | Report Abuse

the notes program scrap off? kenanga submitted censof the same notes proposals case to sc within 42 days. however it is more than 50 days , Kenanga has yet to submit the proposals to sc. the dead date for submission is on 25 Oct 2013.

Posted by gtlam > 2013-10-14 20:37 | Report Abuse

due diligence by kenanaga for censof case taken 42 days. if within next 2 weeks the notes and free warrant proposals no sumbitting by kenanga, then our hope in this counter may end.....