Posted by amac2934 > 2023-09-15 08:40 | Report Abuse

DXNPeru, appreciate your statement here. may you publish the proof, as it is crucial for us as investors, to know and understand the real deeply. i think "scam" is a criminal where ever it is.

To be fair to DXN, CMO himself, and the readers here, hope you can proof further about your statement, to help us making right decision, especially during our positive projection abt the DXN.

Posted by WMY2188 > 2023-09-22 21:46 | Report Abuse

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/2023/09/21/dxn-to-explore-setting-up-integrative-medicine-facility

Posted by tnang > 2023-10-12 16:35 | Report Abuse

waterfall, what happen?

Posted by speakup > 2023-10-12 18:48 | Report Abuse

Down 4¢ je dah waterfall?

Posted by ctwhbwn > 2023-10-12 20:05 | Report Abuse

STATEMENTS OF PROFIT OR LOSS AND OTHER COMPREHENSIVE INCOME
for the year ended 28 February 2023

Group:

A whooping (740.408) is attributed to Other Expenses against Revenue of 1,600,814

What exactly is Other Expenses ?

Posted by speakup > 2023-10-12 21:14 | Report Abuse

i smell Accounting Fraud. Do u?

Posted by PabloJ > 2023-10-18 18:45 | Report Abuse

I'm from Perú, i understand that you don't trust so much, but that 25% of Perú it's true, we have a really big market of the products here, how can i prove it?

Posted by ctwhbwn > 2023-10-19 11:40 | Report Abuse

Not accounting fraud per se. Looks like a big portion of it is for internal reserves. In other words accounting adjustment. Only that whether internal reserves should be classified under Other Expenses ?

Posted by WMY2188 > 2023-10-26 15:53 | Report Abuse

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2023/10/26/dxn-commits-to-dividend-policy-of-at-least-50-of-profit

Posted by Wan Nee > 2023-11-03 16:32 | Report Abuse

Div 0.9,?

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:12 | Report Abuse

target price 89sen.... cantik

https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/MYX-DXN/forecast/

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:13 | Report Abuse

yg ini harga sasaran lagi tinggi 94sen terindah

https://klse.i3investor.com/web/stock/analysis-price-target/5318

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:15 | Report Abuse

Wednesday, 25 Oct 2023
6:16PM
DXN Second Interim Dividend
6:14PM
DXN MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING
6:14PM
DXN 1H net profit 160.624 million (increased 0.22%)

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:18 | Report Abuse

labur sebelum terlambat... terbaik


Date Open Price Target Price Upside/Downside Price Call Firm View
2023-12-06 0.65 0.85 +0.20 (30.77%)
BUY
CIMB
2023-11-10 0.67 0.93 +0.26 (38.81%)
BUY
RHB-OSK
2023-11-10 0.67 0.85 +0.18 (26.87%)
BUY
CIMB
2023-09-21 0.685 0.93 +0.245 (35.77%)
BUY
RHB-OSK
2023-07-31 0.75 0.93 +0.18 (24.00%)
BUY
RHB-OSK
2023-07-26 0.72 0.90 +0.18 (25.00%)
BUY
MAYBANK
2023-07-21 0.71 0.93 +0.22 (30.99%)
BUY
RHB-OSK
2023-07-17 0.72 0.93 +0.21 (29.17%)
BUY
RHB-OSK
2023-05-19 0.69 1.06 +0.37 (53.62%)
BUY
Rakuten

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:20 | Report Abuse

Direct Deals

Summary from 19/05/2023 to 07/08/2023
Highest Price 0.7350 First Occurred on 19/05/2023
Lowest Price 0.7000 First Occurred on 23/06/2023
Highest Volume 1.500m First Occurred on 19/05/2023

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:21 | Report Abuse

free float tak banyak... bila terbang, sangatlah laju :)

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:25 | Report Abuse

DXN Holdings Bhd - Key Takeaways From China Investor Tour

sectoranalyst
Publish date: Wed, 06 Dec 2023, 11:41 AM
We remain positive on DXN post our visit to its facilities in China, which comprise its large-scale raw material cultivation and manufacturing sites.
DXN’s China operations are gearing up to enter China’s growing FMCG markets, while laying the groundwork for a local direct-selling licence.
Retain Add with a TP of RM0.85 (undemanding 11.1x CY24F P/E) with attractive div. yields of 6% and strong 3-year EPS CAGR of 15% (FY23-26F).
A Strategic Location That Would Help Drive the Next Leg of Growth
In Nov 23, we participated in an investor tour to DXN Holdings Bhd’s (DXN) manufacturing (Fig 1) and cultivation facilities (Fig 2) in Ningxia, China (DXN Ningxia). The event provided us with an on-the-ground perspective on DXN’s operational backbone, which is critical to its global direct-selling business. As a key raw material (i.e. Spirulina and Mycelium) production base and an export hub, DXN Ningxia houses its largest Spirulina farm (60% capacity for export) and its manufactured own products (Fig 3) are already exported to up to 20 operating countries (with 30 more in the pipeline), according to management. In addition to generous subsidies and incentives from the local government, DXN Ningxia has access to cheap raw materials and a favourable climate for its Spirulina farming yields. Its customised equipment for mass production of Mycelium liquid spawn (key to its cultivation) and biotechnology innovations to advance its Mycelium variant could help to boost yields and operational efficiency, in our view. While the facility is not operating at full capacity, we believe this represents a strategic readiness for future growth phases and would drive margin expansion once it scales up (FY24-26F GP margin: 83%).

Future Growth Plans to Further Penetrate Into China Market
Management said DXN established its presence in China in 2015 with an aim to secure a local direct-selling licence, which has stringent requirements, including at least 3 years of track record of domestic trading business (DXN China is currently in its third year). It expects to file the licence application in the next 2-3 years. According to TMO Group (a global ecommerce agency), the size of China’s direct sales market is expected to exceed c.RM200bn in 2023F. Meanwhile, with the completion of its liquid beverage factory in Jul 2023, DXN Ningxia has started to produce its high-margin ready-to-drink health product series (Figs 8-11) to venture into China’s fast-moving consumer goods market in 2024F (launching in Hangzhou, Chengdu and Xinyang cities) as a means to build initial brand awareness and subsequently export to its other operating countries, management said.

Reiterate Add With An Unchanged GGM-based TP of RM0.85
We retain our Add call on DXN, with a TP of RM0.85 (FY26F ROE of 27%, COE of 12% and 4% long-term growth). We believe DXN’s current valuation is undemanding at 8.5x CY24F P/E (38% discount to its overall peers’ 10-year average mean; Fig 4) given its superior scale economies and margins driving a strong 3-year EPS CAGR of 15% (FY23- 26F; Fig 5), while offering attractive dividend yields of 5-6%. Re-rating catalysts are higher membership growth and margin expansion. Key downside risks are adverse regulatory changes affecting sales and profit repatriation, and weaker consumer sentiment.

Source: CGS-CIMB Research - 6 Dec 2023

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:27 | Report Abuse

DXN is trading at attractive valuation despite the robust earnings growth and sector-leading profit margins on offer.

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 11:28 | Report Abuse

Initiate Coverage on DXN With An Add Call and TP of RM0.85
We initiate coverage on DXN Holdings Berhad (DXN) with an Add call and a GGM-based TP of RM0.85 (FY26F ROE of 27%, COE of 12% and 4% long-term growth). We like DXN for its i) globally diversified operating markets, with a solid 4.6m direct-selling active member base, ii) integrated supply chain with superior scale economies and margins, as well as iii) extensive product portfolio, driving our strong 3-year EPS CAGR of 15% (FY23- 26F). At our TP, DXN trades at an undemanding 11.1x CY24F P/E, a 20% discount to its peers, which we think is justified given its higher frontier markets exposure that generally carry a higher country risk premium, while offering attractive dividend yields of 5-6%.

Superior Profit Margins Driven by Its Vertically Integrated Structure
In our view, DXN’s competitive edge is its highly vertically integrated business model, allowing it to conduct key operations in-house vs. its peers (Fig 25). Thus, DXN was able to manufacture 327 own brand products (72% of total stock-keeping units) in-house that accounted for 90% of its direct-selling products sold as at FY23 (vs. peers’ c.23-70%). Hence, DXN was able to achieve superior gross margins of 82.9-85.7% in FY19-23 (vs. peers’ average of 20-74%, Figs 36 and 37) as it benefitted from operational synergies.

Backed by Its Robust Global Network and Scalable Incentive Model
DXN also has a vast network of 4.6m active members in over 180 countries as at Aug 23, with its member base growing at a CAGR of 14% over FY19-23, far outpacing its peers. We believe this illustrates the scalability of DXN’s direct-selling model. This is powered by its one-of-a-kind “One World One Market” incentive scheme (no upfront or annual fees, product sales-driven model across all markets) and digital infrastructure that integrates its physical, online and back-end global operations (sales ordering, tracking and commission pay-out, Fig 35). We view this as a differentiating factor for DXN, as it is able to operate on a global scale with low capex and low marketing costs (2-4% of its annual revenue budget).

Growth Strategies Driving Its Strong 3-year EPS CAGR of 15%
We project DXN posting a 13% revenue and 15% EPS CAGR over FY23-26F, driven by: i) our active member CAGR forecast of 4.2% and revenue per active member CAGR of 8.1%, ii) its high-growth markets expansion, iii) new high-margin product launches, and iv) price hike exercises, resulting in a recovery in EBITDA margins in FY24-26F (31.3-31.7%), from FY23 (31.0%). Key re-rating catalysts are higher membership growth and margin expansion on lower input costs. Key downside risks are adverse regulatory changes affecting product sales and profit repatriation, and weaker consumer sentiment.

Source: CGS-CIMB Research - 10 Nov 2023

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 12:04 | Report Abuse

Date Price Open High Low Vol. Change %
12/01/2023 0.64 0.65 0.67 0.63 2.04M -1.54%
11/01/2023 0.65 0.67 0.69 0.64 35.17M -2.26%
10/01/2023 0.67 0.68 0.69 0.61 89.56M -2.21%
09/01/2023 0.68 0.70 0.70 0.67 29.49M -2.16%
08/01/2023 0.69 0.75 0.75 0.68 86.04M -6.71%
07/01/2023 0.75 0.74 0.77 0.70 169.43M +2.05%
06/01/2023 0.73 0.65 0.75 0.64 157.55M +10.61%
Highest
0.77
Change %
-3.03
Average
0.69
Difference
0.16
Lowest
0.61

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 12:20 | Report Abuse

Source: maybank investment

Visiting DXN China
We came away from our recent visit to DXN’s Ningxia, China manufacturing facility feeling positive. This is premised on the group’s clear strategies in pursuing new markets in China for longer-term growth, strong product innovation for export markets and use of automation in its production lines to minimise cross contamination and its reliance on labour. Our earnings estimates, BUY call and TP of MYR0.90 (on 11x FY24E PER) are unchanged.

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 14:26 | Report Abuse

Performance has been driven by a number of factors, including:

Strong financial results: DXN has reported solid earnings growth in recent quarters, thanks to rising demand for its health and wellness products.
Expansion into new markets: DXN is actively expanding into new markets, such as Peru, which has boosted its growth prospects.
Positive analyst sentiment: Most analysts covering DXN have a buy rating on the stock and believe that it has further upside potential.

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 14:33 | Report Abuse

Name Details of Changes
Date Type No. of Shares Price
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 30-Nov-2023 Acquired 345,000 0.651
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 29-Nov-2023 Acquired 219,600 0.660
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 28-Nov-2023 Acquired 132,100 0.666
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 27-Nov-2023 Acquired 98,000 0.663
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 24-Nov-2023 Acquired 292,300 0.668
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 23-Nov-2023 Acquired 91,000 0.672
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 22-Nov-2023 Acquired 133,600 0.659
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 22-Sep-2023 Acquired 769,100 0.689
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 21-Sep-2023 Acquired 169,700 0.690
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 18-Sep-2023 Acquired 115,000 0.699
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 15-Sep-2023 Acquired 190,600 0.700
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 14-Sep-2023 Acquired 90,000 0.704
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 13-Sep-2023 Acquired 684,600 0.699
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 12-Sep-2023 Acquired 1,863,900 0.694
DATUK LIM SIOW JIN 11-Sep-2023 Acquired 60,000 0.685
MISS ONG HUEY MIN 07-Sep-2023 Acquired 20,000 0.705
MISS ONG HUEY MIN 06-Sep-2023 Acquired 25,000 0.700
MISS ONG HUEY MIN 05-Sep-2023 Acquired 25,000 0.695
MISS ONG HUEY MIN 30-May-2023 Acquired 20,000 0.650
MISS ONG HUEY MIN 29-May-2023 Acquired 10,000 0.655
MISS ONG HUEY MIN 26-May-2023 Acquired 20,000 0.645
MR TEOH HANG CHING 18-May-2023 Others 830,000 0.700
MR TEOH HANG CHING 18-May-2023 Others 39,000 0.700
MR TEOH HANG CHING 18-May-2023 Others 36,000 0.700
DATUK NORIPAH BINTI KAMSO 18-May-2023 Others 200,000 0.700

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 14:34 | Report Abuse

dividend stock

25-Oct-2023 15-Nov-2023 DIVIDEND Second Interim Dividend RM 0.0090
28-Jul-2023 11-Aug-2023 DIVIDEND First Interim Dividend RM 0.0080

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 14:35 | Report Abuse

From To Type No. of Shares Min Price Max Price
02-Nov-2023 02-Nov-2023 Buyback 30,000 0.665 0.675
01-Nov-2023 01-Nov-2023 Buyback 200,000 0.660 0.665
31-Oct-2023 31-Oct-2023 Buyback 189,000 0.655 0.675
30-Oct-2023 30-Oct-2023 Buyback 670,200 0.660 0.680
27-Oct-2023 27-Oct-2023 Buyback 190,000 0.670 0.685
26-Oct-2023 26-Oct-2023 Buyback 178,000 0.660 0.675
26-Oct-2023 02-Nov-2023 Buyback 1,457,200 0.655 0.685

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 14:45 | Report Abuse

biarkan ikan bilis jual dibawah harga IPO, geng sendiri sapu lagi banyak, terbijak :)

share buyback dan board members sapu syer... sudden surge anytime :)

Monday, 4 Dec 2023
5:14PM
DXN LSJ GLOBAL SDN. BHD. (345,000 units Acquired)
5:14PM
DXN LEONG BEE LING (345,000 units Acquired)
5:13PM
DXN DEALINGS IN LISTED SECURITIES (CHAPTER 14 OF LISTING REQUIREMENTS)
5:13PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (345,000 units Acquired)
5:13PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (345,000 units Acquired)
Friday, 1 Dec 2023
5:40PM
DXN DEALINGS IN LISTED SECURITIES (CHAPTER 14 OF LISTING REQUIREMENTS)
5:40PM
DXN LEONG BEE LING (351,700 units Acquired)
5:40PM
DXN LSJ GLOBAL SDN. BHD. (351,700 units Acquired)
5:40PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (351,700 units Acquired)
5:40PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (351,700 units Acquired)
Thursday, 30 Nov 2023
5:47PM
DXN DEALINGS IN LISTED SECURITIES (CHAPTER 14 OF LISTING REQUIREMENTS)
5:47PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (98,000 units Acquired)
5:47PM
DXN LEONG BEE LING (98,000 units Acquired)
5:47PM
DXN LSJ GLOBAL SDN. BHD. (98,000 units Acquired)
5:47PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (98,000 units Acquired)
Wednesday, 29 Nov 2023
6:15PM
DXN DEALINGS IN LISTED SECURITIES (CHAPTER 14 OF LISTING REQUIREMENTS)
6:15PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (292,300 units Acquired)
6:14PM
DXN LSJ GLOBAL SDN. BHD. (292,300 units Acquired)
6:14PM
DXN LEONG BEE LING (292,300 units Acquired)
6:14PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (292,300 units Acquired)
Monday, 27 Nov 2023
6:28PM
DXN DEALINGS IN LISTED SECURITIES (CHAPTER 14 OF LISTING REQUIREMENTS)
6:28PM
DXN LSJ GLOBAL SDN. BHD. (224,600 units Acquired)
6:28PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (224,600 units Acquired)
6:27PM
DXN LIM SIOW JIN (224,600 units Acquired)
6:27PM
DXN LEONG BEE LING (224,600 units Acquired)
Tuesday, 7 Nov 2023
5:54PM
DXN 1,457,200 shares purchased into treasury

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-26 17:40 | Report Abuse

Mantap 64sen... 1 juta syer+++ trsnsacted

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-27 09:47 | Report Abuse

Accumulate in stages

Posted by Good123 > 2023-12-27 10:34 | Report Abuse

My short term target, back to 70sen (IPO price) or higher

Posted by WMY2188 > 2023-12-27 17:37 | Report Abuse

@Good123
TQVM... Follow

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Beli good price

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Maybank research, terindah

Briefing update
We believe that 4QFY24E earnings may improve in tandem with sales volume recovery in Peru and Bolivia. That said, our FY24E-FY26E earnings are trimmed by 3% to 4% given expectations for slower sales of its higher margin HDS category and slower sales growth in its ASEAN markets. Maintain BUY with a lower TP of MYR0.86, on unchanged 11x CY24E PER.

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

75-85sen at least dalam 2024

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

70-80sen++ soon grab

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Improving continuously:)

Quarterly rpt on consolidated results for the financial period ended 30 Nov 2023
DXN HOLDINGS BHD.

Financial Year End 29 Feb 2024
Quarter 3 Qtr
Quarterly report for the financial period ended 30 Nov 2023
The figures have not been audited
Attachments
DXNH-Q3FY2024 Financial Result.pdf
741.5 kB
Default CurrencyOther Currency
Currency: Malaysian Ringgit (MYR)

SUMMARY OF KEY FINANCIAL INFORMATION
30 Nov 2023

INDIVIDUAL PERIOD
CUMULATIVE PERIOD
CURRENT YEAR QUARTER
PRECEDING YEAR
CORRESPONDING
QUARTER
CURRENT YEAR TO DATE
PRECEDING YEAR
CORRESPONDING
PERIOD
30 Nov 2023
30 Nov 2022
30 Nov 2023
30 Nov 2022
$$'000
$$'000
$$'000
$$'000
1 Revenue
450,288
439,219
1,332,579
1,195,817
2 Profit/(loss) before tax
119,799
109,417
362,021
343,093
3 Profit/(loss) for the period
81,334
71,202
241,958
231,468
4 Profit/(loss) attributable to ordinary equity holders of the parent
78,359
67,279
231,976
220,229
5 Basic earnings/(loss) per share (Subunit)
1.57
1.39
4.69
4.56
6 Proposed/Declared dividend per share (Subunit)
0.90
0.00
2.60
0.00


AS AT END OF CURRENT QUARTER
AS AT PRECEDING FINANCIAL YEAR END
7
Net assets per share attributable to ordinary equity holders of the parent ($$)
0.2600
0.2100

Definition of Subunit:
In a currency system, there is usually a main unit (base) and subunit that is a fraction amount of the main unit.
Example for the subunit as follows:

Country Base Unit Subunit
Malaysia Ringgit Sen
United States Dollar Cent
United Kingdom Pound Pence

Announcement Info
Company Name DXN HOLDINGS BHD.
Stock Name DXN
Date Announced 24 Jan 2024
Category Financial Results
Reference Number FRA-16052023-00021

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

KUALA LUMPUR: Investors should remain steadfast in seeking fundamentally sound stocks despite the recent turmoil in the small-cap market, according to RHB Research.

In a note, the investment bank said while the small-mid cap space is often preferred for its higher growth prospects, a balanced pick, combined with value-focusing and growth-focused stocks is appropriate in the current environment.

As such, it emphasised that a focus on earnings quality, margins preservation, cash flow, and yield generation is paramount, especially on the backdrop of tense geopolitical conflict, cost escalations, and demand uncertainty.

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Better to focus on shares above 50sen & profitable like dxn.

Avoid penny stocks below 10sen ;)

Posted by stockraider > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Still trading below IPO loh!

Maybe opportunity

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Dxn Holdings Berhad is a Malaysian company known for its focus on health and wellness products, particularly those related to the cultivation and processing of Ganoderma mushrooms. Here are a few reasons why some might consider Dxn Holdings Berhad to be good:Health and Wellness Products: Dxn produces a range of health and wellness products, including supplements and beverages, which appeal to consumers interested in natural and holistic approaches to well-being.Global Presence: Dxn has expanded its presence globally, allowing it to tap into diverse markets and reach a broad customer base.Ganoderma Expertise: The company's emphasis on Ganoderma mushrooms, believed to have various health benefits in traditional medicine, gives it a unique selling point in the wellness industry.Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) Structure: Dxn operates on a multi-level marketing model, providing opportunities for individuals to earn income by selling its products. This can be attractive to those looking for entrepreneurial opportunities.

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

52 Weeks Range

0.605 - 0.77

IPO @70sen.. beli dan simpan/// 70sen takda masalah... timing je :)

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Buy call from maybank


Briefing update
We believe that 4QFY24E earnings may improve in tandem with sales volume recovery in Peru and Bolivia. That said, our FY24E-FY26E earnings are trimmed by 3% to 4% given expectations for slower sales of its higher margin HDS category and slower sales growth in its ASEAN markets. Maintain BUY with a lower TP of MYR0.86, on unchanged 11x CY24E PER.

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

IPO price 70sen ---> 77sen ------> now ? TP 85sen by fund house :)

Posted by Good123 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Tuesday, 27 Feb 2024
6:13PM
DXN 2,242,600 shares purchased into treasury
Monday, 26 Feb 2024
6:03PM
DXN 4,437,800 shares purchased into treasury
Friday, 23 Feb 2024
6:22PM
DXN 1,660,000 shares purchased into treasury
Thursday, 22 Feb 2024
6:36PM
DXN 746,800 shares purchased into treasury
Friday, 26 Jan 2024
8:20AM
DXN DXN - Notice of Book Closure

Posted by gsooi100 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Company keep buy back share but the price keep drop. What does it means..

Posted by madakiman > 1 month ago | Report Abuse

This counter also another die fish, always have positive new release but the stock price look like shit

Posted by Good123 > 1 month ago | Report Abuse

Cash rich... More buy back terbaik

Posted by Good123 > 1 month ago | Report Abuse

Nice entry price

Posted by gsooi100 > 1 month ago | Report Abuse

645 sudah buy.. now waiting 600 to buy again... i believe this year can rebound to 745...

Posted by Good123 > 1 month ago | Report Abuse

uptrend started ka? dah 64sen

Posted by gsooi100 > 1 month ago | Report Abuse

believe will drop ke at least 610 dulu.... the company every quater ada pay divident.. expected coming dividend is 0.9 or 1.0...