Posted by speakup > 2023-11-05 09:03 | Report Abuse

going to investor day now 🤗

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-05 12:26 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney. Good thing that you remained silent throughout the AGM and made postings here. Else will be blamed unfairly again.

Calling your name in specific during AGM even though you didn't even stood up to make any speech really surprised me.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-05 12:41 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor. You asked will I increase beyond more than 1 share? My answer is no. I lost my respect for him. I just need to keep the 1 share to have the right to rant here.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-05 12:47 | Report Abuse

@Fairplay thanks for the shout on 800 k on the legal fees.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-05 12:52 | Report Abuse

Now we know beside the legal fees, we also know the exposure that the fund manager put on shareholders if COL choose to pursue the lost opportunity to buy at lower price during the injunction.

He ka ka jiao jiao people with SICDA, now people is calling his bluff. At the end, still the shareholders have to pay the legal fees.

Of course he wants people like use to exit the fund so that nobody ka ka jiao jiao.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-05 12:59 | Report Abuse

@Speakup..I almost had an heart attack when you shouted "limit down?"

Will wait for the AGM counting results. Thanks to Patient Investor letting me know on the 55% turnout. I was wondering why you know the turnout so fast. 😂😂

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-05 13:38 | Report Abuse

Ya😂😂

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 15:08 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney It was clearly stated both in the annual report and before the meeting that no recording will be allowed and that this will be strictly a private and confidential meeting, meaning whatever is said inside will not be deemed in public, so not subject to the laws on libel and defamation. I may not be a lawyer, but at least I know what that implies. It will be a free for all to attack the opposition by those holding the microphone, the home ground advantage. Here, it is neutral ground, don't cost me a few hundred thousand hall rental and food catering in order to say my piece.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 15:16 | Report Abuse

And if I did say anything negative during the meeting and tomorrow prices go limit down like what Speakup said, I may be blamed, what for? Any way, with the injunction case coming up, management will have bigger fish to fry than bother with me, if they have read the Bursa rules and regulations I posted earlier. For the independent non-executive directors, they should consider seeking independent legal opinions at company's expense, which they are entitled to.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 15:33 | Report Abuse

The Fund Manager/Investment advisor and designated person's job scopes are to manage the portfolios only. Any thing else, the responsibility is solely with the board of directors, like making announcements to Bursa, and spending company funds to fight legal cases.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 15:39 | Report Abuse

The saving grace is that here, directors' fiduciary duty is only to the company, not the shareholders, so only the company can sue the directors for any breach, not shareholders, unless they want to apply to court to initiate a derivative action.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 15:56 | Report Abuse

This is what a brave independent non-executive director did instead of just resigning quietly when confronted with wrongdoings within the company, launching a derivative action https://disclosure.bursamalaysia.com/FileAccess/apbursaweb/download?id=141715&name=EA_GA_ATTACHMENTS

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 16:02 | Report Abuse

@i3lurker The consequences for not being able to prove the existence of the foreign shareholding limit in court will be more serious than losing the single shareholding limit last time, and I believe the BOD have already been warned by the foreign parties. https://www.bursamalaysia.com/regulation/about_bursa_malaysia_regulatory/enforcement/enforcement_approach

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 16:19 | Report Abuse

Recent enforcement cases by Bursa https://www.bursamalaysia.com/sites/5d809dcf39fba22790cad230/assets/63f73eda39fba27cf3b70602/4._Inaccurate_Disclosures_or_Announcements__amnd-Kheesan___Clean___1_.pdf

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-05 17:10 | Report Abuse

Wah.. So jia lat one ah.. 😱

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-11-05 20:02 | Report Abuse

Icap has 140 million shares, the voting result is published, total of ~77million shares counted. which is around 55% shares voted, not 55% turnout.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-11-05 20:05 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney keep 1 share to waste your life ranting? you can rant here even without any shares.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-11-05 20:09 | Report Abuse

I'll stop following this post until next AGM, since its more of a one man show for dumbmoney, a shareholder who sides with a foreign fund and defending them.

Happy ranting to other investor shall any of them pay attentino to this forum. lol.

Posted by speakup > 2023-11-05 21:14 | Report Abuse

icap investor day was a disappointment. attendance nothing like before covid

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 23:35 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor Sure, it is ok to accuse COL of share price manipulation in a closed door meeting, try doing it here in a public forum and see what happens? As I said, better spend your time preparing for the defense of the upcoming court case than to keep monitoring my rants here. You know why, half of them are in response to John Dough and your posts here, so your absence will automatically reduce my need to keep defending COL, which has so far, not taken up my suggestion that it has the right to sue for damages arising from the dismissed injunction against further buying of shares, leaving others to buy cheap shares without competition.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 23:38 | Report Abuse

Also, quoting WB doesn't make anyone a WB wannabe either, what's worse, quoting one thing and doing the opposite, like on share buy backs.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-05 23:48 | Report Abuse

COL has been accused of corporate mischief by iCap in the previous litigation, which has been dismissed by the courts as without basis. That's the only other 'wrong doings' they have been accused of so far, besides buying beyond the 20% limit. Voting against certain resolutions? Why didn't they include this in the pleadings then? I am only defending a shareholder's rights to buy shares at a deep discount for potential profit, which I am also doing myself.

Posted by speakup > 2023-11-06 08:39 | Report Abuse

Anybody here went investor day yesterday? Can't be speakup only one here go

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-06 09:50 | Report Abuse

@speakup Why complain, I went to the AGM and I was the only one singled out for special mention. out of the thousands attendees. One consolation though, didn't have my photo flashed on the big screen this time.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-06 09:59 | Report Abuse

I think I have just figured out the meaning of the message on the T-shirts of the CDAM staff, Better than Best - working with CDAM is better than going to the best business schools! Can save USD 200K in tuition and expenses, what a deal.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-06 11:38 | Report Abuse

Good that Patient Investor left lagak lan si lan yeong.

All he cares is to keep Ceasar in power for another year, pending court case on foreign limit thingy. Consolation is we were dragged into the Brutus conspiracy to topple Ceasar.

A numbers of resolutions were heavily voted against such as reelection of BODs, Dato Seri Md Ajib Bin Anuar, Ms Tan Mun Ling and even the auditor. The voting patterns were the same. I take only 1 of the resolution as a sample for discussion

Resolution 3 To re-elect Ms Tan Mun Lin as a Director
For 467 shareholders
Votes 45,021,704
% 56.9581

Against 27 shareholders
Votes 34,021,851
% 43.0419

Total 79,043,555

Total foreign shareholders that most likely voted against were as follow:
COL 32,117,900 shares
Pop Investment 1,279,600 shares
BROWN BROTHERS HARRIMAN & CO. (CGWI LTD) 990,000 shares
Total 34,387,500

Minus the foreign holding votes, so basically it says that only a few small minority that voted against but with not much shareholding firepower.

The rest of the 2700++ shareholders with remaining 61 million shareholding just can't be bothered(indifference).

Ceasar just declared, Rome still under his rules. The rest of you few small potatoes can keep on ranting.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-06 11:40 | Report Abuse

Good that now they know we rant because we want to point out things that are not right and not to be benefited personally from all the postings.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-06 12:50 | Report Abuse

Correction: .....Consolation is we were NOT dragged into the Brutus conspiracy to topple Ceasar.

Posted by JohnD0ugh > 2023-11-06 21:25 | Report Abuse

With its time-proven value investing philosophy, ICAP has achieved consistent strong performance.

Even in the last few years, ICAP has performed superbly. Since its listing in 2005, the fund has outperformed the MSCI Malaysia for 14 out of 18 years. Even though its NAV performance has been impressive and continues to appreciate, the share price is still trading at a discount currently. Besides, ICAP still has around RM 145.7 mln in cash assets as at 31 May 2023.

With the exciting strategies put in place, including its innovative dividend policy, the future of ICAP is undoubtedly very attractive - a truly low-risk, high return investment.


i Capital Newsletter Volume 35 Issue 9

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-06 22:08 | Report Abuse

This is what ChatGPT says about low risk high returns investment (they don't give Nobel Prize for such a simple basic concept) - In finance and investing, the relationship between risk and return is a fundamental concept. Typically, investments that offer the potential for high returns are associated with higher levels of risk, and investments that are considered low risk tend to offer lower potential returns. However, the absence of barriers to arbitrage does not necessarily change this fundamental relationship. Let's break down this concept:

Risk-Return Tradeoff: The risk-return tradeoff is the principle that investors generally require compensation in the form of higher potential returns for taking on higher levels of risk. This is because riskier investments have a greater likelihood of losing value, and investors want to be rewarded for bearing that risk.

Arbitrage: Arbitrage is the practice of exploiting price discrepancies of the same or similar assets in different markets to make a risk-free profit. In theory, if there are no barriers to arbitrage, prices in different markets should quickly adjust to eliminate any pricing discrepancies.

Now, if an investment is characterized as low risk but offers high returns, it may be seen as an anomaly or an arbitrage opportunity. In efficient markets with no barriers to arbitrage, such opportunities should be quickly exploited, leading to a correction in prices. This implies that such situations are unlikely to persist.

Here's a key point to consider:

Efficient Markets: In efficient markets, all available information is already reflected in asset prices, and it is difficult to consistently find assets that offer significantly higher returns without taking on additional risk.
In summary, while the absence of barriers to arbitrage can help ensure that prices quickly adjust to their fair values, it does not change the fundamental relationship between risk and return. Investments that are genuinely low risk tend to offer more modest returns, and high returns often come with higher levels of risk. However, it's essential to remember that real-world investing is complex, and there are no guarantees.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-06 22:14 | Report Abuse

Just to add, Efficient market hypothesis is a product of Chicago research and did win a Nobel Prize, so if this is considered rubbish, then all bets are off, and there are such things like low risk and high return investments, as iCap is claimed here.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-07 01:28 | Report Abuse

Investment portfolio risk is not measured by simple P&L, but by volatility. If prices can go from premium to deep discount, that is risk.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-07 09:25 | Report Abuse

Mah lei! I thought iCAP will leave us in peace and let us talk rubbish...still monitoring us???

after all, we got only 1 share, in no way can threatened them. WTF with JohnD0ugh coming back with low risk, high return garbage again!

For those just came back from iCAP pilgrimage trip, I have a simple challenge for those believe in low risk high return,

Put $1,000,000 in iCAP at buying price of $4.20/share(20% premium on last NAV), see happen to this low risk, high return.

😤

Posted by stockraider > 2023-11-07 10:23 | Report Abuse

Small win for TTB, but remember the votes is not crucial yet.
But come to liquidation of Icap, if the discount is still huge, very high chance the shareholders will vote to bungkus icap loh!

Posted by zhangwin > 2023-11-07 11:53 | Report Abuse

icap for long term. Buy today at 2.77, already have about 80 sen gain from NAV = liquidation gain. If stuck, there is the new dividend policy
to compensate. Win-win.

Posted by observatory > 2023-11-07 12:50 | Report Abuse

I stay away from iCAP share. Not even 1 share.
But I regularly visit this iCAP forum to check out the good discussions contributed by knowlegable people like @dumbMoney. Thank you for the good inputs.
I'm also not surprised that whenever AGM time is near, not only aggrieved shareholders, but some of their detractors also appear here.
@FastMoney, I also read about your comment on the advanced knowledge of 55%. :)
Keep it up!

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-07 17:09 | Report Abuse

@observatory Thanks for the compliments, but I can't claim to be knowledgeable because what I have been taught has been called rubbish. But given my age and the years on both the buy and sell side of the business, there are certain things can be learned from observation and experience. If a fund is building a position in a stock, it would be against its interest to push the price up with aggressive buying, so they will try to buy lower, and if there are ready sellers, it is not unusual for prices to drop while the buying is going on, purely by coincidence. To call that evidence of price manipulation is a bit of a stretch, but in a closed door meeting, one can say anything. My group had managed to collect a 10% block of a listed counter from the market before without raising the share price one bit, so it can be done. What more if every transactions by COL need to be reported, it is all transparent and aboveboard. Once CDAM and clients combined reach the 5% reporting threshold, then both can share the blame for the reduced free float and liquidity in the market.

Posted by Sslee > 2023-11-07 17:32 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2023-11-07 17:33 | Report Abuse

Dividend:
In many of previous AGM BOD reason to keep the earning in financial assets is to support M&A Securities financial need of stock broking, share margin financing, collaterised trading, corporate finance advisory, underwriting and placement of securities (IPO, PP and M&A activities)

Referring to Insas EGM key matters discussed: The rationale for the RTO exercise is to unlock the value of Insas’ investment in M&A Securities by monetizing and securitizing the shares in M&A Securities via SYF. This will enable M&A Securities as a separate listed entity under SYF:
(a) to raise its future funding requirement through the capital market independently from Insas.
Question 10: My congratulations to BOD for successful listing of M&A Securities thro’ RTO and M&A Securities is now a separate listed entity that can raise its future funding requirement through the capital market independently from Insas.
Will BOD kindly reward Insas shareholders with a fairer, equitable and better yearly dividend since the reason to provide financial support to M&A securities is now solved?

AR 2023 Page: 10
FIVE YEARS GROUP FINANCIAL HIGHLIGHTS
Equity Attributable to Owners of the Company had growth from RM 1,739,358,000 FY 2019 to RM 2,342,233,000 FY 2023 with retained earnings RM 1,419,807,000.
As at 30/6/2023 AR2023 Page: 204
FINANCIAL INSTRUMENTS
Financial assets
RM’000
Financial assets at fair value through other comprehensive income: 34,529
Trade receivables: 485,504
Amount due from associate companies: 58,315
Amount due from jointly controlled entities: 660
Other receivables and deposits paid: 57,710
Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss: 222,832
Deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions: 943,505
Cash and bank balances: 104,747
Total: 1,907,802

Financial liabilities
Derivative financial liabilities: 3,634
Trade payables: 74,537
Other payables, deposits received and accruals: 39,627
Loans and borrowings: 242,961
Redeemable preference shares: 128,622
Total: 489,381
Net Financial assets: 1,418,421

With Equity Attributable to Owners of the Company RM 2,342,233,000 of which retained earnings is RM 1,419,807,000 and of the retained earnings the Net Financial assets is RM 1,418,421,000.
Question 11: Return of Equity (%): FY2023 a poor 5.2% is not the fault of Insas Management Team but mainly due to BOD keep too much retained earnings (Equity keep growing) and hence will BOD kindly rectify the imbalance by distribute portion of the retained earnings to shareholders in the form of special dividend?

Posted by Sslee > 2023-11-07 17:34 | Report Abuse

Dividend Policy
Referring:
https://www.nst.com.my/business/corporate/2023/10/962455/icapitalbiz-p...
KUALA LUMPUR: icapital.biz Bhd (ICAP) is introducing a dividend policy to proactively narrow the gap between share price and net asset value (NAV) and possibly bring its share price back to trade at a premium, just as it did during the first three years as a listed company
The dividend policy, subject to market and economic conditions and ICAP's value, will be on a base rate of one percent of the NAV per share plus eight per cent of the difference between ICAP's share price and the NAV.

Question 12: ICAP is introducing a dividend policy to proactively narrow the gap between share price and net asset value (NAV). May I know the reasons why Insas BOD had yet to implement a dividend policy to proactively narrow the gap between Insas share price and Insas Net Assets Per-Share of RM 3.53 as at 30/6/2023?

Posted by Sslee > 2023-11-07 17:37 | Report Abuse

https://klse1.i3investor.com/blogs/Sslee_blog/2023-11-05-story-h-215950673-INSAS_Questions_for_Insas_61th_AGM.jsp

Questions for Insas coming 61th AGM

Posted by Sslee > 2023-11-07 17:44 | Report Abuse

If the market is efficient what should be Insas share price?

Market Cap: 603 Million
NOSH: 693 Million
Avg Volume (4 weeks): 155,514
4 Weeks Range: 0.855 - 0.89
4 Weeks Price Volatility (%): 42.86%
52 Weeks Range: 0.75 - 0.93
52 Weeks Price Volatility (%): 66.67%

ORDINARY SHARES
Number of shares issued : 663,020,762 (excluding 30,327,291 treasury shares)
Class of shares : Ordinary shares
Voting rights : One vote per ordinary share

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-07 18:49 | Report Abuse

Who is this Dato's Sri Thong?

Another WB wannabe?

I lost count on # of subsidiaries that even auditors making disclaimers some of them are not audited by them.

Speaking of the cash, why the interests received is so low, sitting on 1 billion cash?

Some many be attracted by some ownership in Inari but on balance it could be a honey trap. Sorry, the company is too big for a small brain like mine to analyze further.

Paiseh...no further comments.

Posted by Sslee > 2023-11-07 20:05 | Report Abuse

FY2023
RM'000
Interest income from:-
 - deposits and cash balances with
  licensed banks and financial
  institutions 21,500

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-07 20:34 | Report Abuse

Too many complicated footnotes.. Some belong to clients and what not... Really sorry.. All the best to those have big balls to raid the company... Not for me. I only skimmed through the AR like 15 mins, gut feel is just keep telling me it's too good to be true. Or may be owner may be really screwed the company so badly wanted to take it privately at the expense of minority shareholders. In doubt,my first reaction, RUN.😂😂

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-07 20:36 | Report Abuse

Market hates uncertainty or things they don't understand. A sudden rise, could be pump and dump.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-07 20:38 | Report Abuse

A good company always talk you in English that your grandmother understand. This is a rule of thumb. Anything above that, leave it to hedge fund managers that specialized in special situation where they have enough money and legal fire power.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-07 20:38 | Report Abuse

Sorry, I think I really have cakap banyak. 🙏🙏🙏

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-11-07 21:10 | Report Abuse

Insas is a private company masquerading as a public company, so market efficiency does not apply. If the owner's intention is never to sell his shares in the market, share price discount does not matter to him. It is like WB would say, just buy the shares and don't look at the newspaper share price page, just like it grow. His control is so solid that not only is it takeover proof, but also liquidation proof, so people cannot even buy it for risk arbitrage. The NAV is wholly academic unless liquidated. The dividend yield is just around bank FD rate, so at least it can be an alternative form of savings for those investors who want to be his long term business partners. Having a public company shell allows the owner to borrow from banks without personal gurantees, so the banking facilities can still be around even if he is not, allowing his successors to carry on.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-11-07 21:55 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney... Thanks, else I could have committed a manslaughter with my pen. 🙏