Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 22:53 | Report Abuse

They are buying for private clients knowing its below intrinsic value yet refused to accept mandate from shareholders to do SBB.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 22:54 | Report Abuse

Even they do drip, shareholders missed the period of 2/share.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 22:55 | Report Abuse

I am hope there will be people bring this up during AGM

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 23:02 | Report Abuse

2012 is the year that many shareholders starts to get trapped and cannot exit due to perpetual discounts or exit by giving up the hope share price and NAV at 30-40% discount. and the fund manager keep blaming COL.. Even a guy get to buy at lower price like Kukubird got frustrated... Many are like him. Manager get to collect fees for the past so many years and don't feel pain. This the reason of starting point of 2012. I am hoping to hear the word sorry, I feel your pain.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 23:05 | Report Abuse

I will show you since 2008, CDAM timed it perfectly and buy some shares of iCAP

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 23:07 | Report Abuse

They knew exactly it's a screaming buy and they bought on behalf of private clients but refused to buy on behalf of shareholders.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 23:09 | Report Abuse

I am requesting the fund manager do not treat ICAP as an adopted son and favored his another beloved son.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-19 23:12 | Report Abuse

If you happen to see Mr Tan, send my regards to him. 😊

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 13:37 | Report Abuse

Haha... 😝

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-20 16:39 | Report Abuse

If private clients accounts managed by CDAM are discretionary accounts, i.e. the fund manager has authority to buy and sell without further reference to the clients, shouldn't these be also declarable along with TTB and CDAM's share purchases, the same argument used in the court case against COL, that these are under the control of the same party, even though not the ownership? Otherwise, each of these clients can build up a position just below the 5% limit, but together can exceed 20%, like what COL is doing. The difference is that COL has been declaring all along the moment they exceeded the 5% reporting threshold, but not here.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 18:35 | Report Abuse

Perhaps this is the plan engineered by the fund manager that can sent the share price soaring and tighten his grips when comes to proxy fights. All the proxy will be his. Rumors: CDAM, Tunku Sara plus his discretionary accounts already exceeded 5%.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 18:37 | Report Abuse

It's very difficult to get this information from the annual report...

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 18:42 | Report Abuse

If true, this is a shrewd plan, increased control, taking fees from both sides perhaps even fixing some discounts issues but terrible governance. 😎

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 18:49 | Report Abuse

This adding a very interesting twist to the plot. No wonder he will resist the SBB till the end. Treasury shares can't vote.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-20 19:13 | Report Abuse

In case readers are wondering why I know so much about the COL court case, all I did was to spend $30 to buy the court paper filings in order to hear both sides of the story, rather than all just one sided.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 19:17 | Report Abuse

OIC, at first I suspected you are from COL😂😂 Clear to me now

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 19:19 | Report Abuse

My beloved fund manager always preach "seek truth from facts" by quoting chairman Mao

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-20 19:53 | Report Abuse

In the court case, iCap argued that control implies de facto shareholding, so the same argument should apply also to the CDAM clients accounts where the manager has discretionary control and be reported as such. Cannot have two set of rules.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-20 20:36 | Report Abuse

Too bad we can only talk about this and for sure we don't have the money to go to court enforce it🤐

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-20 20:59 | Report Abuse

But the company used shareholders' money to go to court to try to enforce this de facto control interpretation of the rules and failed. Dismissed by the Federal Court immediately at end of hearing the appeal for leave.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-21 09:05 | Report Abuse

The fund manager will organize an online talk today at 12 pm, today.

The title is : HOW TO HAVE YOUR CAKE AND STILL EAT IT?

Good! except the fund manager forgot to ask, which cake?

CAKE A: DIVIDEND + CAPITAL APPRECIATION

CAKE B: DIVIDEND+CAPTIAL APPRECIATION+ICAP PUT(SBB WHEN IT IS A SCREAMING BUY)


"BETTER IS THE ENEMY OF GOOD" VOLTAIRE

Gone fishing...catch up later.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 05:27 | Report Abuse

While got stuck in the airports due flight delayed, I finally can study @dumbMoney post quietly. You have done a great job in proposing various scenarios how shareholder value can be enhanced. The 4% dividend payout in different forms also taken consideration of equivalent to iCAP proposed in their innovative dividend model that essentially pricing in a perpetual 24% discounts to NAV. You have remained very neutral to consider all options unlike the fund manager doing only a hard sell of 1 Choice and 1 Cake. 😂😂

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
These are my computations under various assumptions and alternatives Paying dividends either in cash or shares have no effect on shareholders' wealth, but a SBB increases the NAV of the remaining shares, depending on the amount of SBB and the price discount. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y8sacaao3nejubp1owmor/iCap-dividend-policy-alternatives.xls?rlkey=nf1d2ldsdu5m6cuq5m38nj2lq&dl=0

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have expanded your thoughts to apply on iCAP PUT by looking into a bear market scenario. This is a scenario of 1 bear market, 1 year and not all the years. Hopefully nobody twists this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Outstanding shares 140,000,000

Assuming NAV @ 11/10/23 $3.54, Total NAV = 495,000,000

Share price $ 2.69 (Discount = 24%)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Assuming during a big crisis, iCAP NAV fell by 20%
Bear market NAV = $ 2.83
Discounts got worst, 40%, Share price = $ 1.42
Use budgeted $ 15,000,000 to do iCAP PUT, purchase 10,563,380(almost 7.5% share buy back)
Outstanding shares = 129,436,620

When market went back to normal at NAV 3.54, Total NAV = 480,000,000(going back to same baseline comparison)

Per share NAV after SBB = $ 3.71

At same 24% discount, project share price = $ 2.82

Price increase of 4.8% (2.82-2.69/2.69)

This why iCAP PUT is a no brainer and essentially what WB is doing. He doesn’t put SBB on automatic, some year he bought back a lot, and some year almost not buying back anything.

https://ycharts.com/companies/BRK.A/stock_buyback

PS. There is no need to talk about reduced management fees due to lower NAV because the fund manager has already proposed dividend, same amount of cash RM 15,000,000 will be deducted anyway.

Mathematically it makes so much sense to me. I hope stakeholders will stay rational to do the right things.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-22 07:29 | Report Abuse

What is the 5 10 rule in investing?

Though there are no guaranteed returns for mutual funds, as per this rule, one should expect 10 percent returns from long term equity investment, 5 percent returns from debt instruments.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-10-22 07:50 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney666 @dumbmoney calculation is just to fish for shareholders contact for personal agenda.
He will contact you soon, LOL!

Posted by Income > 2023-10-22 08:01 | Report Abuse

https://youtube.com/shorts/5TGxkobU7nA?si=Ez4dJz_uSGJbZu4M
Only 2 balls. Which one is your ball?

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 08:03 | Report Abuse

Take it as a compliment. Thanks. The 3 of you, can't argue on logics. Upgrade to next level. Personal attack. Welcome.

Posted by kelvinfixx > 2023-10-22 08:11 | Report Abuse

How much should I buy to attend the AGM?

Posted by Income > 2023-10-22 08:29 | Report Abuse

… TTB holding icap shares through another company. No wonder, all dealings for control and self compensation year in year out? Condolences for Ttb buying CapA.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 11:01 | Report Abuse

iCAP people. Please check your reports.

CDAM(shareholder 22?)/CD Sdn Bhd(shareholder 30?) reported in 2023 Annual Report(page 59) as at 23/8/2023, they have (1,161,500+937,900) = 2,099,400 shares.

Then on 1/9/2023 made announcement for intention to deal during closed period.

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company_announcement/announcement_details?ann_id=3382528

The company declared it has 2,993,100 shares. That is an increase of 893,700 shares.

Including of 23/8/2023 and 1/9/2023, total trading days = 7, total volume in the market was 403,300 shares. CDAM/CD S/B and etc so geng, they can buy more than total market volume. Give you a helping hand: COL bought 132,000 shares on 28/8/2023. So I don’t how iCAP or CDAM can give birth to additional so many shares.

Suspected either got recording errors or under-declare, correct it before AGM to save yourself some embarrassments.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 12:46 | Report Abuse

Actually no one here ever mentioned about winding up icapital. This is the chance of closing a fund if based on the persistent discounts
Discounts/Chance
10% Zero chance
11-20% 10% success rate chance
21-30 20-25% success rate chance
31-40% 30-40% chance
41-50% 50-50%
51-60% 60-70%
> 60% basket case... Days are numbered

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 12:49 | Report Abuse

For those have been sown with hatred speech... Please wake up. Also those who are buying recently betting the fund will close down, you will be disappointed. After AGM, iCap will still in one piece, perfectly in tact.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 12:51 | Report Abuse

Usual tactics will follow, roadshow, online, soon each shareholder will receive phone calls... Who has the advantage????

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-22 12:57 | Report Abuse

The proposed DRIP intention to issue shares at a discount is supposed to be an incentive and reward for loyal shareholders at the expense of those who take cash instead. But this has the unintended consequence of contributing to the discount. Smart investors who opt for cash can game the system with a risk less arbitrage, subscribe for the DRIP at a discount and sell the equivalent amount of mother shares at market price. This can continue until DRIP discount is no longer wide enough to make the arbitrage profitable. This is an old trick before share trading went scripless. After a share went ex rights or bonus, controlling shareholders have the market to themselves because they can get hold of the new split shares immediately, while others have to send theirs in for registration and splitting, which can take up to a month under the rules. So pump and dump operations were so easy to do in an illiquid market.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:10 | Report Abuse

A professional poker player will never be foolish to going ALL IN after looking into their odds of winning. Those names that being flashed on the roadshow are Pros.....it's an unfair advantage that little guys listen to someone who has10X of their brain size and treat him like stock market God....The are simply over-powered. They listened and believed in him because of his charisma not because of his logics. I am one of them but recently found out I have been cuci otak for too long...wish to let everyone to hear a balance view. They can see what I write and made decision themselves...what is best for them.

Using closing down fund as a blackmailing is unfair....just like Dr. M claimed he has no successor, no one can ever replace him. Shed famous tears on the stage. See what happened today? Please do not throw away trust and reputation that have been built of 50 years. I got a bit of respect for him when I opened up the e-mail of his talk yesterday about having the cake and still can eat it at the same time. I thought he begins to listen to the plights of his followers.

Siapa makan cili, tentu rasa pedas.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:25 | Report Abuse

What I hope to see changes are simple:

1. Apologize to those been affected directly and indirectly by iCAP lost decade. He can keep his 78 million fund fees since 2012. No one is interested ever to claw back from him.

2. Cake B.

The title is : HOW TO HAVE YOUR CAKE AND STILL EAT IT?

Good! except the fund manager forgot to ask, which cake?

CAKE A: DIVIDEND + CAPITAL APPRECIATION

CAKE B: DIVIDEND+CAPTIAL APPRECIATION+ICAP PUT(SBB WHEN IT IS A SCREAMING BUY)

"BETTER IS THE ENEMY OF GOOD" VOLTAIRE

3. To reconsider Tan Mun Lin appointment - She is an Executive Director of CDAM, meaning someone has all the executive power in CDAM that may not be completely perceived independent even though she will hold as an Non-Independent Non-Executive of iCAP. It is a common sense that a person needs to clean and seen to be clean. Anyone with highest integrity, when in doubt or confronted with grey areas, they will always remove themselves so that CAN BE SEEN CLEAN.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:25 | Report Abuse

These are 3 agendas I am after if it is labelled as personal hidden agenda....

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:29 | Report Abuse

Please stop making more suicide bombers out of his followers.....

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:30 | Report Abuse

I have completed lost my respects for him when he sent his 3 machais to attack me this morning

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:42 | Report Abuse

Attacking me means there are truths in what I write...I only rely on public records....completely handicapped and have no help at all from anyone. Only trying to connect the dots. I never know the rubbish I wrote can be treated as a threat to him. A big mistake by attacking me.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:44 | Report Abuse

You have seen how I extracted from dumbMoney on COL...he was very quiet about it until I read in between the lines and asked him more

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:45 | Report Abuse

A gentleman. He didn't wash iCAP dirty linens in public. He is more of a geek to me. He is more interested to expound the finance theory than attacking the fund manager

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 13:49 | Report Abuse

Sorry guys/gals

repost what dumbMoney. His message lost in my typhoon day.

Read this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The proposed DRIP intention to issue shares at a discount is supposed to be an incentive and reward for loyal shareholders at the expense of those who take cash instead. But this has the unintended consequence of contributing to the discount. Smart investors who opt for cash can game the system with a risk less arbitrage, subscribe for the DRIP at a discount and sell the equivalent amount of mother shares at market price. This can continue until DRIP discount is no longer wide enough to make the arbitrage profitable. This is an old trick before share trading went scripless. After a share went ex rights or bonus, controlling shareholders have the market to themselves because they can get hold of the new split shares immediately, while others have to send theirs in for registration and splitting, which can take up to a month under the rules. So pump and dump operations were so easy to do in an illiquid market.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 14:02 | Report Abuse

Also by i3lurker....got drown in my messages...

>>>>>>
I had never believed in managed funds.
Not even EPF.

///If he loses, he will have an advantage not enjoyed by most ordinary stock traders.
He will have something to comfort him in his poverty stricken old age.
He will have somebody to blame besides himself. ///

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-22 16:44 | Report Abuse

@i3lurker The 3 big Singapore banks all managed their own CEF in the past, as well as PNB here, managing AHP2 property trust. They all chose the liquidation route to take care of the price discount problem once and for all because they are also the biggest shareholders, so they are on the same page as the minority shareholders. What is good for the latter is also good for them. The loss of the management fee is only loose change to them in their P&L, so no agency bias there. iCap has a different set up, so sing to a different tune. I am from the Efficient Market school, so active managers are being scrutinized to look for their alphas.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 19:18 | Report Abuse

My apology to @Income. The 3 are not referring him. The 3 are 3i, John and patient investor. ICap subscribers are not allowed to do copy and paste. If you see John's post on iCap here, they are reproduced in exact words without a single mistake. He has the ori copy of ICAP.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 19:38 | Report Abuse

Some small guys lose money way faster investing themselves than putting money in managed funds or EPF.
What is worst is they got scammed.

Most logical is to put an Index fund and leave it there without touching it. There is an index fund called FBMKLCI-EA, they track KLCI and also pay dividend very regularly. Even though KLCI lost about 20% but the cumulative dividend is about 35-40% for past 10 years, there is a nett gain but of course teruk jugak lah.

So whenever they are stumbled upon gods-big or small, they will grab and hang on to them religiously.

Nothing wrong with the fund manager actually except he is getting very arrogant and picking fights every where and offended a lot of people. I felt so bad when he trashed his subscribers' by publishing their letters as if it is a naked public canning. People write to you in private, why reply in public? He just make more enemies faster thank making friends. Now there is an uprising. But he is getting more paranoid because he keep thing there are white masters behind it.

My advice to him is go to ancestor hall and reflect.

“Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you.”
Confucius

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-10-22 20:01 | Report Abuse

@Kelvinfixx one share entitles you to attend AGM.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-10-22 20:17 | Report Abuse

@Fast666 Where are you being attacked? please share detail.

Posted by speakup > 2023-10-22 21:04 | Report Abuse

TTB tell everybody to REBUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT tomorrow morning! siapa cepat dia dapat

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-22 21:46 | Report Abuse

Fish shareholders contact for personal agenda???....what an insult...Anyhow, I have published the 3 things I hope to see changes, the so called personal agenda. Also please look into the shareholdings information. We are even now. 😂😂