Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-05 19:24 | Report Abuse

sixteenblue thanks for the link ;)

Posted by sixteenblue > 2012-11-05 22:20 | Report Abuse

Follow-up post at Serious Investing:
"My take on the ICap debacle"
http://www.intellecpoint.com/2012/11/my-take-on-icap-debacle.html

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-06 04:14 | Report Abuse

If you are a smart shareholder of icap, pay attention to the articles posted by sixteenblue. TTB has done excellent job in icap. that is indisputable. We should appreciate him. However don't be blind hero worshipers, blind loyalty. Isn't loyalty to your self and your own pocket more important? Understand what is "agency problem". And for heaven sake, don't litter this thread with spams any more. Investors need more useful information here.

Posted by sixteenblue > 2012-11-06 11:13 | Report Abuse

"Hostile takeover of iCapital.biz?" - the Star
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/11/6/business/12278095&sec=business

Posted by sixteenblue > 2012-11-06 15:05 | Report Abuse

"Tan: iCapital.biz to oppose nomination of 3 directors (Update)" - the Star
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/11/6/business/20121106115518&sec=business

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-06 15:19 | Report Abuse

sixteenblue, thanks for the posting. Haha, TTB resigning? What a childish act. Don't worry, there are capable people who can take over the role. If icap liquidated, icap holders would make good return. Don't worry, there are many undervalued stocks to reinvest your money. All investors would like to maximize their return and there is nothing wrong. (Oop, forget that there are people who don't like some in this thread). If icap is undervalued, it is wonderful that these foreign major shareholders can do something about it; like forcing management to pay a dividend, buyback undervalued shares, open-end the fund etc. Why TTB objects? This is called agency problem. Management would like to maximize their own return, not shareholders. Who want to have less fund to invest and get less management fees. It is normal. You as an investor, do you want to maximize your return, or the fund manager's return. think, don't be emotional. Investing is to make money, the more the merrier; not some kind of hero worshiping, royalty and those useless stuff.

Posted by jpleow > 2012-11-06 16:06 | Report Abuse

I posted my proxy form yesterday, voting for the 3 candidates from Laxey & voting against all the candidates from Capital Dynamic. :)

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-06 16:10 | Report Abuse

when being approached by an investment scheme, 7 of 10 people ask "Is it Guaranteed", and only the other 3 really do their research to find out whether "Is it a SCAM"!

See the below and i am sure you would understand why a shareholder like myself and many other would be worried.

EVS closes investigation in the case from Laxey / Implenia - defendant make restitution of one million francs

Bern, 20.12.2010 - The Legal Service of the Federal Department of Finance (FDF), the investigation in the case Laxey / Implenia completed on suspicion of violation of the mandatory reporting requirements. The case against those responsible for Laxey group was discontinued after the accuse
d had made reparation payments totaling one million francs.

In connection with the investment structure of the group at the Laxey Implenia late 2006/early 2007, the FDF Legal Services an administrative criminal investigation on suspicion of violation of the mandatory reporting requirements. The investigation was directed against persons who held responsible positions in this period within the Laxey Group, notably against Roger Buehler, Michael Haxby, Colin Kingsnorth and Andrew Pegge.

The FDF Legal Services has closed the administrative criminal proceedings pursuant to Article 53 of the Penal Code, after Roger Buehler, Michael Haxby, Colin Kingsnorth and Andrew Pegge had paid a compensation payment totaling one million francs.

With the payment of compensation in connection with the disclosure and building the stake in Implenia late 2006/early 2007 caused injustice was compensated. This renders further investigation, who were part of the individual defendants were accused of culpable conduct to what extent.

The reparation payments were made in the amount of CHF 500,000 to various charitable institutions. The remaining CHF 500,000 was made available to the FDF. This uses the value in the interests of all market participants to secure and strengthen the functioning of financial markets.

Address for inquiries: Roland Meier, FDF Press Officer, tel 031 322 60 86

Published by: Federal Department of Finance Internet: http://www.efd.admin.ch/
Full-Text Search
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Federal Department of Finance
info@gs-efd.admin.ch | Legal framework

ORIGINAL : http://www.efd.admin.ch/dokumentation/medieninformationen/00467/index.html?lang=de&msg-id=36895

Posted by sixteenblue > 2012-11-06 18:02 | Report Abuse

"Laxey Partners: New iCapital directors to enhance share price" - the Star
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/11/6/business/20121106164000&sec=business

Posted by jpleow > 2012-11-06 18:13 | Report Abuse

Yes, Laxey Partners, you have my support!

"It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice." - Deng Xiaoping.

Posted by sixteenblue > 2012-11-06 18:14 | Report Abuse

"Capital Dynamics gets SC nod for world’s first dual-listed fund"
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/business/article/capital-dynamics-gets-sc-nod-for-worlds-first-dual-listed-fund

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-06 18:35 | Report Abuse

i did read the article on "their enhance share price plan", but failed to understand how their nomination would in any manner solve the discount problem and especially the credibility of this claim when ttb has kept our trust for so long.

Posted by andychen831 > 2012-11-06 18:38 | Report Abuse

Laxey's letter to ICAP shareholders:

http://peterlim80.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/letter-to-shareholders-of-icapitalbiz.html

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-06 18:38 | Report Abuse

and ya it doesnt matter if the cat is black or white, but it does when its a mice in a cats disguise :)
it will just do more damage than good.
not the biggest fan of icap but for them having gained and respected every shareholders trust over the time.

Posted by proinvestor23 > 2012-11-06 19:01 | Report Abuse

Hmm whts the news about the dual listed fund!! Its seems new and exciting.. personally I would like to go to the AGM and hear both the parties plans for the fund. If the dual listed fund is interesting may be stick around for little longer to see how it would turn out!!

Posted by lofan73 > 2012-11-06 19:26 | Report Abuse

change TTB. everytime ask ppl to buy ICAP during roadshows but when we ask about dividends he kept quiet n mentioning the price discount to NAV .pls la TTB. anyone can explain why he bot MIECO nj SURIA ..all losing money le

Posted by andychen831 > 2012-11-06 19:55 | Report Abuse

Laxey Letter to ICAP shareholders:
http://tinyurl.com/LAXEYPARTNERSICAPLETTER

Posted by iafx > 2012-11-06 20:45 | Report Abuse

icap is not performing, fat cat should leave the board, simple as that.

Posted by astral > 2012-11-06 21:23 | Report Abuse

After reading Laxey's letter it does seem they have a case there. =/

Posted by iafx > 2012-11-07 08:12 | Report Abuse

no div, sparse NAV to price, black box operation ... what else? fat cat should leave, this is a public listed company, but work like a private atm machine to small group of fat cats.

laxey at very least brought new ideas to the sake of performance. what does the ttb contribute? bullshits. these fat cats will start mongering fear to show how "important" they are (or were).

wake-up, stakeholders!

Posted by lofan73 > 2012-11-07 08:27 | Report Abuse

in life...father,mother n siblings cannot be changed.others than that ALL CAN BE CHANGED.EVEN PRESIDENT OF A COUNTRY CAN BE CHANGED.WARREN BUFFET ALSO CAN BE CHANGED. WHO IS TTB AAFTER ALL????WAKE UP SHAREHOLDERS.

Posted by sixteenblue > 2012-11-07 08:39 | Report Abuse

"iCapital.biz fund manager threatens to quit if hostile party members win board seat"
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/11/7/business/12283320&sec=business

"iCapital.biz future at stake"
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/11/7/business/12283765&sec=business

Posted by iafx > 2012-11-07 08:50 | Report Abuse

ya ... ya ... ya ..., the board just shown their maturity and capability, wow ... how impressive.

no wonder after these many years not even a cent.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-07 10:52 | Report Abuse

Dear icap investors, I think all of you should already be happy with Laxey Partners, shouldn't you? icap was at a discount of 27% just 5 months ago when it was trading at RM2.14 when NAV was 2.94. Today its NAV has not changed much but look how much is icap trading now? 2.55 or a 20% rise! Why? It was all because of this Laxey Partner's active participation. Just like what jpleow said below:
Posted by jpleow > Nov 6, 2012 06:13 PM | Report Abuse
Yes, Laxey Partners, you have my support!
"It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice." - Deng Xiaoping.

I have sold off most of icap shares at an average price of about 2.55 now. Who cares who gain control now. Yes, this is the reality of investing; no emotion, no hero worshiping, no "kam cheng" one. Just maximizing of profits, mine, not the fund manager of the board members. My money is at risk, not theirs. They just collect fees, whether icap's value increases or not. If TTB and the present gain control, better still. icap will sure drop back in price, 2.20-2.30? I don't know. I can then buy back again and wait for the next round. If a stock is undervalued, there are sure people try to gain control one day and unlock the value.

Posted by ongtkong > 2012-11-07 11:10 | Report Abuse

fully agreed with jpleow. well said.

Posted by jpleow > 2012-11-07 12:32 | Report Abuse

In "Capital Dynamics gets SC nod for world’s first dual-listed fund":
"He said however that he could not disclose how the new dual-listed fund and icapital.biz would be linked."

I think the dual-listed fund should be a new fund, it will have to go through IPO process & you have to pay to subscribe it. I just can't figure out how the dual-listed fund can be linked to ICAP.

Posted by jpleow > 2012-11-07 16:21 | Report Abuse

That is not important. The most important thing is to maximize our profit by narrowing ICAP discount or even liquidate it!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-07 16:27 | Report Abuse

yeah man jpleow. who cares who the f is andrew apa ini? shouldn't we care about our own pocket? Oooi, this TTB threaten to resign if we (the majority of the shareholders) do not follow what he wants. That is utter ridiculous. Who is he? He is our fund manager, employed and paid by the shareholders. Who should he serve? Himself and not not us? Don't worry. If he resigns, there are people who can take over, no problem man. Best, liquidate the fund. with the money, we can invest in Genneva (OOOp). Just kidding, there are plenty of undervalued stocks around to put money in. Trust me.

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-07 17:11 | Report Abuse

if laxey aka andrew peg doesnt wnt to liquidate the fund
this mean he wants to manage the fund and get all the FM fees? if peg is FM of icapital.biz berhad his track record is the worst of any investor - terra catalyst, value catalyst fund. so he will liquidate the fund and get all the cash for his cash strapped funds?

Posted by proinvestor23 > 2012-11-07 17:22 | Report Abuse

if shareback is the magic formula to narrow the discount, why is that after city of london n laxey accumulate 14% of icap share, icap discount become wider n wider...
i wonder hw share buyback can help narrow the discount of icap? or did discount go wider because of their buyin

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-07 17:23 | Report Abuse

proinvestor23, yeah lah, you really don't understand!

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-07 17:30 | Report Abuse

Check this out if you dont believe, the laxey history all messed up. even if care own pocket oso cannot trust laxey maa
http://icapital.my/agm/laxey-track-record.jpg

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-07 17:37 | Report Abuse

aiyah nhy6, why u care about VCF fund lei? u invest in icap or VCF?

Posted by jpleow > 2012-11-07 18:35 | Report Abuse

If the foreign funds have not been buying, ICap would have stuck in the price range of around $2.10 today. The price was not performing & not many people were interested in it. Just as Laxey put it in their letter to ICap shareholders: "The discount that the shares of the Company trade at relative to their NAV simply reflects the weak investor sentiment in the Company."

Their real intention is to liquidate the stock, not to become fund manager. They said in their letter, "Our Board should research the means to permanently remove the discount to NAV which our shares trade at, and bring forward proposals to enact those recommendation forthwith." What they are saying indirectly is that they will liquidate ICap.

Liquidation is fair for all shareholders since everybody get what they entitle to according to their shareholding! It is not just benefiting Laxey only! The only person loses out is the arrogant TTB!

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-07 22:11 | Report Abuse

will andrew peg liquidate for your benefit or for his benefit? take alook at another of his "performing" fund terra catalyst. is he sucking all the assets of icap to rescue his cash strapped funds? guys be smart.
http://icapital.biz/agm/charts/terra-catalyst-fund.jpg

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-07 23:22 | Report Abuse

n for those talkin on discount check out this chart, this Fund managed by Laxey has been in huge persistent discount !
http://icapital.biz/agm/charts/terra-catalyst-fund-discount.jpg

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-08 05:24 | Report Abuse

Posted by nhy6 > Nov 7, 2012 10:11 PM | Report Abusewill
andrew peg liquidate for your benefit or for his benefit?
n for those talkin on discount check out this chart, this Fund managed by Laxey has been in huge persistent discount !
http://icapital.biz/agm/charts/terra-catalyst-fund-discount.jpg

Do I care whose benefit is that for? Do I care about Laxey's WTF fund? I just get my money at closed to full value of NAV of icap I have. Upfront gain of approximately 20% and invest in other undervalued good stocks.
Anyway the chart you show are all from icap. Are you a icap paid poster?

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-08 08:35 | Report Abuse

guys, finally there is an official response from icap... this might tk a while to read.. let me grab a coffee whila ya'll go through :)
http://icapital.biz/agm/FORMAL_RESPONSE_TO_LAXEY_PARTNERS_LTD_ACCUSATIONS.pdf
... reference http://www.facebook.com/CapitalDynamics

Posted by jpleow > 2012-11-08 09:25 | Report Abuse

The share price is dropping after the arrogant TTB threaten to resign. Look like the only way to maximize your profit is to vote for Laxey Partners.

If Capital Dynamics win, the price will drop further!

Posted by anker > 2012-11-08 09:30 | Report Abuse

is it a stage job ?? afterall lots of shares are now below nta. nta may not be reliable. it is realizable value that counts. again rv is a guess nbr, isnt it ?

Posted by jpleow > 2012-11-08 09:37 | Report Abuse

For ICap, it is NAV (Net Asset Value) not NTA. For a CEF, its assets consist of cash & shares only. Hence it can be converted to cash easily.

For other companies, they have assets like building, plants, equipments, etc & it is not easy to liquidate them!

Posted by hooi > 2012-11-08 10:43 | Report Abuse

Bought Icap at 2.48

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-08 12:22 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz , do some research loo.
if u really own icap shares why dont u just go to their site and read their official rather than assuming things.
and ya, i am actually paid by icap.. do you even know how much YOU COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN PAID if you wld understood the real value of icap
i have earned good frm their shares n obvious tht i wnt to continue, liquidation is stupidity
i get more frm icap thn my gaji n so could all the shareowners if they understood the picture here
its still not late ttb supporters

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-08 13:09 | Report Abuse

nhy6, you have done a lot of reading about your investment in icap. Good on you. That is exactly what investing should be doing. Yeah, that is also why you get more money from your icap investment than from your gaji as you said. Have you sold any or is it on paper only? You must have invested a lot on icap too. Good on you too. Me? Yeah I have bought quite a bit of icap too since a year ago. However, I have sold almost all already when it went up to 2.59. Yeah stupid me that I "don't understood the picture here". I should keep all the shares and like you go vote for TTB and all its gang back to the board. Then icap will rise up further from the 2.59 that I have sold. Stupid me and rugi lah really. But just one advice. You should also read what other say about this boardroom tussle too, not just what TTB and icap furnish you. If Genneva Gold furnish you with all the information about how good their investment is, shouldn't you also find out from other sources if it is really the case? Read more good mah. Anyway for me, thanks TTB for picking the right stocks in icap which I have made some money. But I also thank Laxey Partners for coming into the picture here. Best of luck to you.

Posted by Peter Lim Cheng Teik > 2012-11-08 14:59 | Report Abuse

Feeling lost and unsure what to vote in the coming Icapital.biz Bhd's AGM ? Do read what Buffett have to say, and i really hope Mr Tan Teng Boo will read this and act in the interest of the share owners, NOT JUST SAY (like mentioned by Buffett below).

"The companies in which we have our largest investments have all engaged in significant stock repurhases at times when wide discrepancies existed between price and value. As shareholders, we find this encouraging and rewarding for two important reasons - one that is obvious, and one that is subtle and not always understood. The obvious point involves basic arithmetic: major repurchases at prices well below per-share intrinsic business value immediately increase, in a highly significant way, that value. When companies purchase their own stock, they often find it easy to get $2 of present value for $1. Corporate acquisition programs almost never do as well and, in a discouragingly large number of cases, fail to get anything close to $1 of value for each $1 expended.

The other benefit of repurchases is less subject to precise measurement but can be fully as important over time. By making repurchases when a company’s market value is well below its business value, management clearly demonstrates that it is given to actions that enhance the wealth of shareholders, rather than to actions that expand management’s domain but that do nothing for (or even harm) shareholders. Seeing this, shareholders and potential shareholders increase their estimates of future returns from the business. This upward revision, in turn, produces market prices more in line with intrinsic business value. These prices are entirely rational. Investors should pay more for a
business that is lodged in the hands of a manager with demonstrated pro-shareholder leanings than for one in the hands of a self-interested manager marching to a different drummer. (To make the point extreme, how much would you pay to be a minority shareholder of a company controlled by Robert Wesco?)

The key word is “demonstrated”. A manager who consistently turns his back on repurchases, when these clearly are in the interests of owners, reveals more than he knows of his motivations. No matter how often or how eloquently he mouths some public relations-inspired phrase such as “maximizing
shareholder wealth” (this season’s favorite), the market correctly discounts assets lodged with him. His heart is not listening to his mouth - and, after a while, neither will the market."

Surprisingly, this 3 paragraphs was written by Buffett in 1984 letters to his Berkshire Shareholders. [ Source: http://berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1984.html ]

Mr. Tan Teng Boo, if you're reading this, i'm sure Warren Buffett don't mean you since he wouldn't know what's going to happen 28 years after writing that article. But don't you agree his words of advice is timeless?

Posted by sixteenblue > 2012-11-08 15:06 | Report Abuse

"Interview: Tan to block Laxey's entry to icapital board"
http://www.theedgemalaysia.com/highlights/224597-interview-tan-to-block-laxeys-entry-to-icapital-board.html

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-08 15:14 | Report Abuse

nhy6, this article reproduced by Peter you should read also. And all the articles on icap by this chap, felicity
http://www.intellecpoint.com/search?q=icap
And this chap, Dali
http://www.intellecpoint.com/search?q=icap

And other different views also. Good mah, Knowledge is power.

Posted by hooi > 2012-11-08 15:14 | Report Abuse

BRK is not a cef, you should read what Benjamin Graham said. Bought Icap at 2.47

Posted by Peter Lim Cheng Teik > 2012-11-08 15:25 | Report Abuse

Also see what's deleted by Capital Dynamics website when i asked them critical questions. They prefer to delete! Sounds like some govt i know.http://www.howtofinancemoney.com/2012/11/icapital-biz-laxey-partners.html

Posted by nhy6 > 2012-11-08 15:30 | Report Abuse

none of you guys seem to have read the letter reply that i am refering to a constructive conversation is always welcome since most of us are icap shareowners i am sure we all want what is best for us. please read this and you would have responses to all the above including what peter lim wants to say...