Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-25 10:25 | Report Abuse

Why did I said it is a financial risk management tool? Because if you use small amount of money to hope to win the same amount of money if you were to buy the underlying share, the most you lose is your initial outlay.

Posted by Steve Jub > 2013-03-25 13:09 | Report Abuse

ya, i think usually people buy warrant don't really use it. means they usually sell before it expired. Maybe no money to buy those shares after expired kua. hehe..

Posted by pyramidpoh > 2013-03-28 08:29 | Report Abuse

Property stocks are usually very good stocks why our property stocks in Malaysia are performed so lousy.Take example Plenitude Bhd EPS so high NTA RM3.13.I don't know why so many years no dividends are paid.It also hadn't any debts to the Banks and also has strong cash flow.Kcchongnz can you analyze to me?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-28 08:48 | Report Abuse

pyramidpoh,
I have given my analysis on Plenitude a few times before. No, its business is not performing lousily. It is good. You may say its share price is not performing well, short-term recently.

Who says Plenitude did not pay dividend so many years? Below is the record of its dividend payment.

Year 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006
Dividend, sen 5.0 7.5 7.5 6.75 6.75 5.75 5.0

I would say the dividend payment is not satisfactory in relation to its earnings and free cash flow. They have the ability to pay much more. It is a cash backing of 1.36 per share. Look at its free cash flow below:

Year 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008
FCF 25691 39040 107625 132749 94145
FCF/Share, sen 9.5 14.5 39.9 49.2 34.9

That shows its great ability to pay much more dividend. Why they don't pay more? Go to their AGM and question them.

Posted by iafx > 2013-03-28 09:37 | Report Abuse

to hold a prop counter for long, pick those with proven DY history, try not rely fully on large pile of $/lands (so call 'strong bs', 'undervalued'), these value on paper cheer u, make bank happy, give prop buyer confident... too bad nothing come to yr pocket as real $

of cos, at the end of the day, u punya suka lah :)

Posted by Desmond Liew > 2013-03-28 09:40 | Report Abuse

unless they unlock the value of lands, or else large pile of lands mean nothing at all.. example Incken..

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-04-11 16:25 | Report Abuse

Performance of “undervalued” property stocks

About two months ago, I created this thread of “undervalued property stocks” for discussion purpose. The response from fellow forumers was great as a lot of good ideas were posted and discussed. We have plenty of positive feedback. Of course we also have some negative comments, such as accusing us for promoting stocks to hard sell high to forumers here and bring them to Holland; “counters no liquidity”, “sucker sifu”, “sifatt”, “taufu” aand all kinds of degrading terms. Now two months have passed and let’s make a review of the return of these “undervalued property stocks”.

The table below shows the return from two months ago when we started talking about those stocks.

Stock Price then Price now *+/-
Plenitude 1.79 2.04 14.0%
Glomac 0.855 0.995 16.4%
Hua Yang 1.59 2.18 37.1%
KSL 1.55 2.13 37.4%
Tambun Indah 0.74 0.975 31.8%
Daiman 1.80 2.56 42.2%
Ivory 0.49 0.595 21.4%
Tebrau 0.90 1.47 63.3%
UEM 2.20 2.86 30.0%
Sunway 2.40 2.96 23.3%
Mah sing 2.10 2.28 8.6%
E&O 1.53 1.67 9.2%
SP Setia 3.40 3.55 4.4%
L&G 0.415 0.425 2.4%
Dijaya 1.29 1.51 17.1%
Crescendo 1.75 2.52 44.0%
MK Land 0.300 0.325 8.3%
Average 24.2%
Median 21.4%
Stdev 17%

The table of stocks return was tabulated using the approximate price of the stocks at the time of discussion and compared with the prices at the time of writing. They are not copied and paste from any internet site, books or reports. Out of the 17 stocks mentioned, all stocks made positive return ranging from a high of 63.3% for Tebrau to a low of 2.4% for L&G. The average return was 24.2%, or a median return of 21.4%. This performance way outperformed the KLCI of 4.6% for the same period. Even Ivory, a stock I considered as a lemon, made 21.4% return for the period. This proves a number of things:

1. Property stocks were not overvalued as claimed by some people at that time.
2. The return of stocks does not depend on whether a stock is liquid or not, whether there are securities houses covering the stock, but how good are the fundamentals of the stock.
3. In short-term, the share price is hard to predict.
4. It is difficult to time the market as at that time, so many local institutional investors and retail investors shun the market because of the fear of the general election.

Will this great performance continue? Have your say here.

Posted by csk396 > 2013-04-11 16:31 | Report Abuse

May I asked, is LBS an undervalued stock after the land sale ?

Posted by iafx > 2013-04-11 16:33 | Report Abuse

better of read klci-properties index, it's bullish market. try do this table during bear market, then change to another story.

Posted by greatdreamer > 2013-04-11 23:51 | Report Abuse

If we exclude the 'Iskandar' Thame Play factor, the return for property stocks for the past 2 month is more and less in line with KLCI. Iskandar Drivers are primarily determined by Singapore Dollar, less from Msia side.

Based on Msia sound macro factors, the property boom can last for a few more yrs. Property stocks with sound fundamental, are expected to do well in next few yr ahead.

Posted by lkloke > 2013-04-12 00:09 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, Sorry to trouble you, can you throw some light on Malton. This property counter was not picked up by you, why? On books, it is very much undervalued, trading now at 52cts, its PER is 3.4; Dy is 4.7; Nta $1.45 (latest) and its par value is $1. Its properties are in prime areas such as Petaling Jaya, Bukit Damansara, Penang, Bukit Jalil.

ps. Do not care what other forumers said, We are in this forum to discuss our views only, not to promote for anybody, only sharing amongst forumers who are interested only. Right?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-04-12 09:13 | Report Abuse

"If we exclude the 'Iskandar' Thame Play factor, the return for property stocks for the past 2 month is more and less in line with KLCI."
Greatdreamer, why do you say the above? have you done the analysis yourself by excluding the return of Iskandar Theme stocks? I have a spreadsheet with all the stocks i have tabulated. If I exclude those Iskandar stocks, I don't know which ones you will exclude, that won't make much difference to the return of the remainder property companies.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-04-12 09:15 | Report Abuse

lkloke, from the data you have given on Malton, it seems a good value stock to me. It was just that nobody talked about it the last time when we discussed about undervalued property stocks.

Posted by yewkhian > 2013-04-12 09:23 | Report Abuse

Kcchongnz, the CVIEW take a look. Good news will come ahead and it's Iskandar play

Posted by yewkhian > 2013-04-12 09:24 | Report Abuse

It's land bank over 300 ekars and house fully sold :) more to come after election ya

Posted by stock5678 > 2013-04-12 09:34 | Report Abuse

i agree light on Malton but i think now can accumulate. But to me, who has less bullet left over, i rather monitor and wait.
From TA perspective, this is not the time to take risk to accumulate. My own personal thought. I rather to wait for lower on Malton.

Posted by stock5678 > 2013-04-12 09:36 | Report Abuse

do not focus too much on sleeping counter. monitor, once move, can start to collect. else money stuck there. chase high sometimes it's good because can go higher. accumulate sleeping require more capital to standby. I can't :)

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-04-12 09:41 | Report Abuse

The greater-fool theory:
The notion suggests that there will always be a greater fool to buy from you what you yourself purchased at far too high a price. Alas, at market tops, all fools have bought, so there’s no new fool to bail them out.

Posted by lotsofmoney > 2013-04-12 09:41 | Report Abuse

Please remember it is manupulative play at the moment. Nobody cares about undervalue. The whole senarios will just change with the change of government.

Posted by anbz > 2013-04-12 10:11 | Report Abuse

so kcchong from your posting for several property stock...mkland is the most undervalued and still not shooting up just like other property counters...will it rise in the near term..., it debt to equity ratio is the lowest,and its land in KL,pj,damansara and sg. buloh...added with mrt project and cyberjaya, plus lands in kinta/ipoh and kedah...with total debt for short and long term only RM150m , if it it able to sell few parcel of land in greater KL...it will be debt free in 2013...what positive (positive mah) view u can tell us?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-04-12 10:22 | Report Abuse

anbz, frankly speaking you know much more about MK Land than me. You have done a lot of research yourself recently. Yes I believe MK Land is undervalued in relation to its assets. It even qualifies as Graham net-net play (Google what I mean). In term of financial performance, i don't know why is it still not catching up like what other companies co after the sublime crisis, but it has certainly stop hemorrhaging now. Has the old poor management changed for the better future? Is the management/major shareholder taking care of everyone and not just himself? Is the management proactive in developing the land it holds? I don't know but these are important issues to me.

Posted by cherry tomato > 2013-04-12 10:26 | Report Abuse

MKland poor corporate government. How the stk wanna to rise.

Posted by tonylim > 2013-04-12 10:34 | Report Abuse

Very poor indeed

Posted by anbz > 2013-04-12 10:36 | Report Abuse

can we say that mkland is more prudent now for what has happened to it in 2008? take a look of ijm land it is said to be cash rich RM640m, yet its debt is RM580m , and mahsing fr 2008 to 2013, its liabilities has multiple 4.65 (around that...lupa sikit). If there is housing bubble , wouldn't the big debt company will fall harder just like L&G in 1998. wouldn't u say mkland is more prudent and very strategic now?

Posted by tonylim > 2013-04-12 10:36 | Report Abuse

I only buy their property when its readying

Posted by smartly > 2013-04-12 10:36 | Report Abuse

'poor corporate government' - new term ?

Posted by tonylim > 2013-04-12 10:41 | Report Abuse

Anbz some of their property in certain location has appreciated. Idiot slso can run.

Btw I bought a few from them. The cfo n dtaff say its datuk's unit.

Posted by tonylim > 2013-04-12 10:42 | Report Abuse

Buying the share or their prop is different ball game.

Posted by stock5678 > 2013-04-12 14:03 | Report Abuse

i don't have money to buy a house

Posted by tonylim > 2013-04-12 14:05 | Report Abuse

How come. But got money play shares

Posted by tonylim > 2013-04-12 14:39 | Report Abuse

Buy house no need money.

Posted by tonylim > 2013-06-02 18:16 | Report Abuse

Shit! here we go again, singaporeans gonna curse and swear again.
Whats next?

New property tax rate for foreign owners in Johor

Bernama
5:28PM Jun 2, 2013

The Johor government will impose a new tax rate on about 130,000 foreign owners of property in the state, which varies from the rate imposed on local ownership.

Menteri Besar Mohamed Khaled Nordin said the move was to boost earnings for the local authorities while enhancing services to residents.

"The time has come for the state government to look at foreign ownership in the state because our people in other countries are also imposed a different tax rate.

"So, we are initially starting with the property tax rate," Khaled told reporters after visiting the Permas zone in Hihir Baru today.

Khaled, who is also Permas assemblyperson, was confident that the local people would agree with the decision as it would provide returns for them, while foreigners must learn to appreciate their ownership of property in the state.

He also the state local authorities would re-assess the value of properties in their respective jurisdiction to determine the tax rate to be collected.

The last assessment was made in the 80s, he said, adding that the prevailing property value was now higher.

On the Permas zone, Khaled said RM4 million had been allocated to rehabilitate the area, besides sealing and widening existing roads and building new ones.

- Bernama
View comments (2)

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 02:44 | Report Abuse

yes.. gd move... i johorean welcome it with big hand crap ... i waiting for property burst ..

Posted by Tiago Gt > 2013-06-03 09:12 | Report Abuse

oi....i live in permas....n.......so far....so good...

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 09:36 | Report Abuse

ya .. do u involved in property... i in property line ...most people dont have that kind of income to buy 500k houses n many speculator from singapore . market is already slow down ..

Posted by iafx > 2013-06-03 09:38 | Report Abuse

some prop counter do not rely on theme with good div, these counters will be steady thru in coming years

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 09:40 | Report Abuse

haha ... property sure will fall like u.s as nothing is skyrocketing forever .... see how much the gold price drop ? u.s $1700 to us$1400 in less then a month

Posted by iafx > 2013-06-03 09:45 | Report Abuse

sure or not? U.S property market is going up, March reported up 10.2% :D

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 09:48 | Report Abuse

i mean in 2007 la ... malaysia if u work in property line , u know what i mean .... but for me i happy la as people keep on chasing property i make money but most of the deal is speculative . malaysia property will sure going for fall if nothing control the speculative side

Posted by iafx > 2013-06-03 09:51 | Report Abuse

bro... sekarang ni 2013, apa sa bincang 2007 pulak?! hahahaa... anyway, the interest rate, gdp play the key role. believe so far so good (manageable level), or else v should c gov loosing up constraint for foreigner to buy in. so far, especially affordable home is still very much in demand. of cos, diff loc diff pricing :)

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 09:55 | Report Abuse

bro i saying malaysia property scenario here same as u.s 2007 subprime .. is all speculative n not base on actual demand n supply .... see jb a service apartment how much with 2 bedroom 1.2mil . expensive then a jb landed property . 1.2 mil monthly installment 5k . do u think if u have 5k for rental u can afford to buy a landed property in jb ? what i said malaysia property is speculative like penny share counter due to malaysia & singapore FD low interest ...

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 09:56 | Report Abuse

and pls go to the ground to do survey with actual face to face with the buyer n seller then u know what i talking about ...

Posted by iafx > 2013-06-03 10:06 | Report Abuse

true, true.. however, ever consider how come the owner can sustain having the property sits idle; but not settle for lower price? actually, buyers (capable one) have $, but they too kind of "waiting"

some landed housing project in k.valley still can sold out in one day

2007 U.S crisis has a lot to do with derivative, which MY do not use such financial instrument, no worry :)

Posted by mhchai > 2013-06-03 10:15 | Report Abuse

Isn't that SYMLIFE an undervalued property stock, it is still trading around PE 5 only

Posted by iafx > 2013-06-03 10:19 | Report Abuse

symlife very weak div yield

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 10:21 | Report Abuse

malaysia also la... i in banking line related to property . bro ... i have a client singaporean buy nusajaya 37 units one shot .. he bring 4 friends, each friend buy 20 t 30 unit . lower unit for studios cost 500k ... higher unit price semi d 1 mil ... so do u think this is not a speculative n derivative ? how many percentage of malaysia is afford to buy ? maybe only within 5% . when they push the hot area price up .. what happen to other place sure going up . with salary 3k buying normal house 500k in jb , in case econmy crisis , how many afford to paid the installment ? that what i saying ....

Posted by iafx > 2013-06-03 10:23 | Report Abuse

good luck!

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 10:29 | Report Abuse

even company minimum paid 900 the company boss is already bising ... seem like we going to be cow

Posted by yahoo80 > 2013-06-03 22:35 | Report Abuse

Is the Housing Recovery a Sham?
Daily Ticker Videos
An artificial reduction in housing supply has resulted in “what looks like a housing recovery to the rest of us, but is, in fact, something of a trap,” says Heidi Moore, U.S. finance and economics editor at the Guardian.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/housing-recovery-sham-says-guardian-heidi-moore-131443918.html?=vp1

Posted by David Ng > 2014-04-20 08:51 | Report Abuse

Anyone has Plenitude's RNAV numbers ?